Black male graduation rates

[ShawnD1]

Thread not closed. What you stated is the obvious "fact" that everyone knows. The big question is, do you segment students by race, and force up Black students to a level they aren't prepared for

This is a problem that goes way beyond race. When I was in elementary, students in Canada who didn't meet the standard were held back. My brother did kindergarten twice. I was almost held back in kindergarten (I probably should have been). My grade 2 class had 2 students who were forced to repeat that grade. This was in the early 90s. Just a few years later, kids were no longer held back. My mom volunteered at the school and she was part of some community league, and she said the general attitude was that holding kids back was bad for them because it separated them from their friends. On top of that, you need parental permission to hold a kid back. That means you no longer need to pass any class and you will still be pushed through the system.

So what's the solution to this problem? Stop pushing kids through the system. If they fail grade 3, they should repeat grade 3. Instances where 15 year old kids in grade 10 don't know how to read is total bullshit. They never should have made it to grade 10. It doesn't help the kid at all. Even if they want to do well in school and finish grade 12, it's virtually impossible to do so when you can't read or do basic math. Regardless of what race or gender you are, you're going to drop out if people in grade 12 are doing factorials and calculus while you don't even understand things like order of operations.

Instead of allocating more money per student per year, reduce the money per year and allow for more years. Instead of 10k per student per year, try 5k per student and force people to repeat grades until they get it. Is it better for people to be pushed through 12 grades and not understand any of it, or is it better for people to have a very solid understanding of the first 9 grades (which includes basic history, basic math, basic grammar) then quitting after just 9? I think the later is better.

 

[Kappo]

This is a problem that goes way beyond race. When I was in elementary, students in Canada who didn't meet the standard were held back. My brother did kindergarten twice. I was almost held back in kindergarten (I probably should have been). My grade 2 class had 2 students who were forced to repeat that grade. This was in the early 90s. Just a few years later, kids were no longer held back. My mom volunteered at the school and she was part of some community league, and she said the general attitude was that holding kids back was bad for them because it separated them from their friends. On top of that, you need parental permission to hold a kid back. That means you no longer need to pass any class and you will still be pushed through the system.

So what's the solution to this problem? Stop pushing kids through the system. If they fail grade 3, they should repeat grade 3. Instances where 15 year old kids in grade 10 don't know how to read is total bullshit. They never should have made it to grade 10. It doesn't help the kid at all. Even if they want to do well in school and finish grade 12, it's virtually impossible to do so when you can't read or do basic math. Regardless of what race or gender you are, you're going to drop out if people in grade 12 are doing factorials and calculus while you don't even understand things like order of operations.

Instead of allocating more money per student per year, reduce the money per year and allow for more years. Instead of 10k per student per year, try 5k per student and force people to repeat grades until they get it. Is it better for people to be pushed through 12 grades and not understand any of it, or is it better for people to have a very solid understanding of the first 9 grades (which includes basic history, basic math, basic grammar) then quitting after just 9? I think the later is better.

I really don't think that would help the dropout rate. I tend to think the cultural and environmental influences just make them either feel like they dun't knead skewl (life of crime) or their parents just don't care that they finish (which makes them not care).

And really, is a kid who just exists for 4 years and gets a degree more or less valuable than a kid who dropped out in 10th grade after 4 years?

 

[WackyDan]

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/mak...ack-males-highlight-racial-gap-in-schools.php

It maybe not be PC to say it but this is one of the demographic groups that if improved educationally would definitely benefit our society tremendously but doesn't look like it's going in the right direction. This could only mean more problems of all kinds for our society as whole down the road.

Of course we can also throw into the debate that forced diversity and busing has had a negative affect on the grades of all students.. white, black, yellow, etc.... It also raises the costs of education across the board. Instead of letting inner city kids be educated in a manner that most benefits them, in our county wide school district they bus the inner city kids out to the burbs, and bus the burb kids into the inner city... Guaranteeing a uniform level of stupidity and under achieving self entitlement for all involved.

Yes, it would benefit blacks and other minorities greatly if we focused a level/program of education directly at them... but that would be considered racist. So we continue to treat all children the same as if they have the same potential.

The black community needs to get behind changing their culture as well. Until they change their own racist views on each other and other races - until they stop worshipping at the alter of hip hop, bling, and ghetto logic, they will be stuck in a sub par education system. There are no quick fixes for them... it will take generations to change that mentality... just as it has taken generations to get to where they are today.

I probably make no sense... I digress.

 

[ShawnD1]

Of course we can also throw into the debate that forced diversity and busing has had a negative affect on the grades of all students.. white, black, yellow, etc.... It also raises the costs of education across the board. Instead of letting inner city kids be educated in a manner that most benefits them, in our county wide school district they bus the inner city kids out to the burbs, and bus the burb kids into the inner city... Guaranteeing a uniform level of stupidity and under achieving self entitlement for all involved.

Did most of the US elect some kind of communist government that tells you which schools you are allowed to attend and which schools are not allowed?

Where I live, you can register at any school you want. There's also a choice between catholic schools and regular atheist schools. There's no attempt to bring people together, and there are extreme racial and religious differences between the schools. I went through the catholic school system (which are government run here), and the population there is easily more than 90% white and Asian people. My high school had maybe 10 black students out of 1500 students. The regular atheist schools had a much higher percentage of black and middle eastern students. I haven't really heard anyone complain about how extreme the racial divide is. I think a lot of people pick certain schools just to stay with their own race or religion, and sometimes even sexual orientation. There's one high school in my city that is notorious for being the gay high school that focuses on arts. If your son is gay, he'll really want to go to that school just to be with other gay students. It's nice to be with your own kind; gays are not an abused minority at the gay school

 

[Svnla]

Did most of the US elect some kind of communist government that tells you which schools you are allowed to attend and which schools are not allowed?

Where I live, you can register at any school you want

Around here (southern US), you HAVE to go to your district school based on your place of residency. There were some schemes that parents pretend to say their kids live in "good" districts in order for their kids to go to good schools via friends/relatives households. There was even a The Simpson episode about it.

 

[ShawnD1]

Around here (southern US), you HAVE to go to your district school based on your place of residency. There were some schemes that parents pretend to say their kids live in "good" districts in order for their kids to go to good schools via friends/relatives households. There was even a The Simpson episode about it.

Weird. I've also heard you guys say your schools are funded by property taxes, so schools in rich areas are extremely well funded but schools in poor areas are literally falling apart. I'm pretty sure the schools in my city are city-wide funded, so the ones in shitty areas are roughly the same as the ones in new areas.

 

[werepossum]

Did most of the US elect some kind of communist government that tells you which schools you are allowed to attend and which schools are not allowed?

Where I live, you can register at any school you want. There's also a choice between catholic schools and regular atheist schools. There's no attempt to bring people together, and there are extreme racial and religious differences between the schools. I went through the catholic school system (which are government run here), and the population there is easily more than 90% white and Asian people. My high school had maybe 10 black students out of 1500 students. The regular atheist schools had a much higher percentage of black and middle eastern students. I haven't really heard anyone complain about how extreme the racial divide is. I think a lot of people pick certain schools just to stay with their own race or religion, and sometimes even sexual orientation. There's one high school in my city that is notorious for being the gay high school that focuses on arts. If your son is gay, he'll really want to go to that school just to be with other gay students. It's nice to be with your own kind; gays are not an abused minority at the gay school

Bussing was more of a big deal in the south because blacks were more segregated by law rather than economics. I'm old enough to remember the "colored school" myself, though the school system was integrated when I actually attended and I didn't know it was the "colored school" until I was much older, it was just the department of education building.

I think being forced into the local school is more widespread than not because school choice is such a hot issue nationwide, one of the few areas where blacks as a group are in line with mainstream Republican thinking.

 

[alkemyst]

Did most of the US elect some kind of communist government that tells you which schools you are allowed to attend and which schools are not allowed?

Where I live, you can register at any school you want. There's also a choice between catholic schools and regular atheist schools. There's no attempt to bring people together, and there are extreme racial and religious differences between the schools. I went through the catholic school system (which are government run here), and the population there is easily more than 90% white and Asian people. My high school had maybe 10 black students out of 1500 students. The regular atheist schools had a much higher percentage of black and middle eastern students. I haven't really heard anyone complain about how extreme the racial divide is. I think a lot of people pick certain schools just to stay with their own race or religion, and sometimes even sexual orientation. There's one high school in my city that is notorious for being the gay high school that focuses on arts. If your son is gay, he'll really want to go to that school just to be with other gay students. It's nice to be with your own kind; gays are not an abused minority at the gay school

In most places you are going to be going to your local schools, they get built here more or less on population needs. We are also building new schools constantly, you'd have people switching campuses just to switch to the new place.

How does your area handle it when a school gets too many trying to enroll?

 

[StageLeft]

Weird. I've also heard you guys say your schools are funded by property taxes, so schools in rich areas are extremely well funded but schools in poor areas are literally falling apart. I'm pretty sure the schools in my city are city-wide funded, so the ones in shitty areas are roughly the same as the ones in new areas.

In NY also your residency defines where you go to school and you can in fact be arrested for lying about it and sending your kids elsewhere. It's funded by property taxes but kids in the good vs bad districts have the same amount of money spent anyway (taxes and other funding fill in any gaps). The only difference between kids in good districts and bad ones is that in the good their parents aren't dead beat losers who encourage their kids to be idiots. That is it. That is the only real difference. The schools are no better, teachers no better paid, but in wealthier areas the kids come from better families and the kids have better peers. This is why parents in wealthy areas generally will resist any attempts to mix their children in with crack-baby kids.

 

[Painman]

Black kids have had their own system of "education" and minority communities across the US have had their own independent "economies" now spanning generations.

We mostly call them gangs, but they encompass both social spheres.

Nature abhors a vacuum...

 

[alkemyst]

In NY also your residency defines where you go to school and you can in fact be arrested for lying about it and sending your kids elsewhere. It's funded by property taxes but kids in the good vs bad districts have the same amount of money spent anyway (taxes and other funding fill in any gaps). The only difference between kids in good districts and bad ones is that in the good their parents aren't dead beat losers who encourage their kids to be idiots. That is it. That is the only real difference. The schools are no better, teachers no better paid, but in wealthier areas the kids come from better families and the kids have better peers. This is why parents in wealthy areas generally will resist any attempts to mix their children in with crack-baby kids.

QFT...unfortunately around here most schools are built the same size. My town is very small so we get the 'luxury' of having other demographics bused in. This is always lower class though, never higher class kids.

So we got haitians from the farm areas about 45-60mins away and now haitian gangs. If you drive around during the day you see many of the kids just hanging out at one of our parks instead of going to school.

Now we have those families taking advantage of no HOA in our neighborhood and moving in 4+ families to a home turning the yard into a parking lot (more like a salvage yard).

My property value just took another $40k hit this year. I am now at 36% of home value to mortgage amount. I have a call into my bank because now it's really no even break even deal.

Others outside my neighborhood stayed the same in value at least and many went up a decent amount. Our new taxations just were posted this morning.

 

[StageLeft]

My property value just took another $40k hit this year. I am now at 36% of home value to mortgage amount. I have a call into my bank because now it's really no even break even deal.

Holy sh*t!

 

[ShawnD1]

In most places you are going to be going to your local schools, they get built here more or less on population needs. We are also building new schools constantly, you'd have people switching campuses just to switch to the new place.

How does your area handle it when a school gets too many trying to enroll?

I'm not really sure what happens when too many people enroll. I think the school just deals with the overcrowding until a new school can be built. Schools are somewhat evenly spaced out across the city because the population is evenly spaced out if you look at a wide enough area (ie these 50 square miles compare to those 50 square miles).

Forcing people into one particular school seems strange because it's not entirely clear what school is closest to me or anyone else. There is a large high school to the east, a large one to the south, a small one to the south, and they all take about 45 minutes to bus to. I picked one based on what it offered since each one is different. The school to the east was just a regular high school, the big one south focused on independent learning and didn't have fixed schedules, and the small one used year long terms like an elementary school instead of having semesters and it only had academic classes in which a 70% average was required to stay at the school. If it was based strictly on where you lived, there would be thousands of students forced into the self-paced school, and that would probably end bad.

 

[Binarycow]

Of course we can also throw into the debate that forced diversity and busing has had a negative affect on the grades of all students.. white, black, yellow, etc.... It also raises the costs of education across the board. Instead of letting inner city kids be educated in a manner that most benefits them, in our county wide school district they bus the inner city kids out to the burbs, and bus the burb kids into the inner city... Guaranteeing a uniform level of stupidity and under achieving self entitlement for all involved.

Yes, it would benefit blacks and other minorities greatly if we focused a level/program of education directly at them... but that would be considered racist. So we continue to treat all children the same as if they have the same potential.

The black community needs to get behind changing their culture as well. Until they change their own racist views on each other and other races - until they stop worshipping at the alter of hip hop, bling, and ghetto logic, they will be stuck in a sub par education system. There are no quick fixes for them... it will take generations to change that mentality... just as it has taken generations to get to where they are today.

I probably make no sense... I digress.

One observation I have made is Americans we are a very impatient kind of people, possibly due the day-to-day environment we work and live in. Seems like we always want a positive result and we want to see it now. Everything from turning our economy around, fixing our education system, securing our border, fixing SS funding problem, withdrawing from Iraq, etc.
Many times, long-term goals are traded for short-term gains which come around and bite us in our collective butt down the road.

Like you said above, WackyDan, I don't think there's a quick fix for black male graduation rate problem. This problem is pretty much a cultural one and anyone, who is not black, that dares to speak out about this topic, well we all know what would happen to him/her.

From time to time i have this feeling that we all are slowly sinking down a quick sand pit, slow enough for most people to ignore it and go on with their business and yet it's deadly enough if we don't get ourselves out in time, somehow.

 

[piasabird]

I work at a community college. Black or white, we see a lot of people that have to take what we call prepatory classes in English and Math to get ready to take college level classes. I dont see this as a black or white problem. The same problems poor black people have, poor white people have also. However, these problems can be overcome but it just takes longer to graduate from college.

These problems start in grade school and High School. In High School you can graduate with a very minimal amount of English and Math. You can also graduate with all D's. In college you have to have a 2.0 average just to graduate. A C grade is 2.0! In some classes D's may be acceptable but they really drag down your GPA (Grade Point Average). Also in many instances the prerequisite is a C or higher in a subject.

We went to a comprehensive test in Math Classes for the Prepatory classes. So you can pass all your tests but if you dont pass the comprehensive exam at the end of the year you get no passing grade in the class. This can be a real bummer if you dont do your math homework or you are trying to just get by in a class with a C.

Besides these problems if you dont get a C in a 1 year Geometry class in High School, you must take Geometry in College. This can be a real pain. This is all because we pass people with a D or we dont require a full year of Geometry to pass in High School. Some school districts are giving people a pass or cutting back on the required classes. This is something which could be addressed if educational professionals would require a C to pass in all classes and force students to go to Summer School at the Parents expense.

There are no easy answers.

 

[ShawnD1]

There are no easy answers.

Sure there are. First step would be to stop watering down high school classes. Every state/province/country is different, but my high school had math classes that ranged from ridiculously hard to ridiculously easy and that was for the same grade. Grade 10 "pure" math was hard and it raped people. Grade 10 easy math was just that - so easy that you didn't even need to go to class. Easy classes should not exist. There should just be 1 level of math for each grade - difficult math.

Set a simple pass/fail requirement for each grade then give a diploma for each grade. To pass grade 10, you should need to pass all of the matriculation classes. To pass grade 11 you would also need biology, physics, and chemistry. Grade 12 would be all of the above including calculus.


I know what you're saying about the academic upgrading thing. People pass with marks lower than those required for university. There's no way to change that since lots of university classes require 80+ to get in. If you set the diploma requirement to 80+ average, it would just be too hard. People who want to do something like psychology would be held to the same academic standard as engineering majors or math majors. That seems very unfair because not everyone needs to be as smart as a mathematician. For something like psychology, maybe passing high school with a 70 average is good enough; you don't need to be super awesome at physics to be a great psychologist.

 

[evident]

(most) rap music and black (or inner city) culture in general feeds into the poverty cycle. until that changes as a whole, graduation rates will stay this way.

 

[werepossum]

QFT...unfortunately around here most schools are built the same size. My town is very small so we get the 'luxury' of having other demographics bused in. This is always lower class though, never higher class kids.

So we got haitians from the farm areas about 45-60mins away and now haitian gangs. If you drive around during the day you see many of the kids just hanging out at one of our parks instead of going to school.

Now we have those families taking advantage of no HOA in our neighborhood and moving in 4+ families to a home turning the yard into a parking lot (more like a salvage yard).

My property value just took another $40k hit this year. I am now at 36% of home value to mortgage amount. I have a call into my bank because now it's really no even break even deal.

Others outside my neighborhood stayed the same in value at least and many went up a decent amount. Our new taxations just were posted this morning.

Holy sh*t indeed. You have my sympathies, dude. Sometimes you work hard, play by the rules, do everything right and STILL some government committee makes rules that negate everything you've done and turn your American dream into a third world nightmare.

 

[StageLeft]

(most) rap music and black (or inner city) culture in general feeds into the poverty cycle. until that changes as a whole, graduation rates will stay this way.

And movies like this http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0979434/

 

[WackyDan]

No. Here in Charlotte, North Carolina the school system is county wide. A student may live less than a mile from their middle or high school, but end up being bussed from a town outside of Charlotte to an inner city school... while those who live right next door to an inner city school get pushed out to the burbs. Forced busing. 200,000 students in the Mecklenburg county school system.

There have been many calls to decentralize the county school district, in an attempt to stop the forced busing. How would you feel if the county built a brand new high school next to your house, but you had to wait for the bus to go to a shit school? It is a huge waste of money. It is why many here send their kids to private schools so that they have some sort of control and quality to their children's education.

Add to that a huge Hispanic population where there is no emphasis on speaking or reading good english and you end up with a ton of hispanic kids that can't even understand the material, getting a pass to the next grade every year, costing even more money for all... and for what? What is the return on that?

I was raised in a district that spanned several small towns surrounding the north and west side of a city. That city was it's own district. I feel I received a quality education. Even though we only averaged one african american per graduating class, I never saw any overt racism and never felt that racism was an issue in our school.

Again.. I digress... But there are distinct issues with school systems in the US, and thanks to political correctness, and unions we are never going to fix it.

Did most of the US elect some kind of communist government that tells you which schools you are allowed to attend and which schools are not allowed?

Where I live, you can register at any school you want. There's also a choice between catholic schools and regular atheist schools. There's no attempt to bring people together, and there are extreme racial and religious differences between the schools. I went through the catholic school system (which are government run here), and the population there is easily more than 90% white and Asian people. My high school had maybe 10 black students out of 1500 students. The regular atheist schools had a much higher percentage of black and middle eastern students. I haven't really heard anyone complain about how extreme the racial divide is. I think a lot of people pick certain schools just to stay with their own race or religion, and sometimes even sexual orientation. There's one high school in my city that is notorious for being the gay high school that focuses on arts. If your son is gay, he'll really want to go to that school just to be with other gay students. It's nice to be with your own kind; gays are not an abused minority at the gay school

 

[ShawnD1]

And movies like this http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0979434/

Haha. Less than a 3/10 rating on IMDB.

It's weird that movies where 90% of the cast is black seem to have the worst stereotypes against black people. When white people make a movie, the black guy dies first and the bad guy is black. In black movies, it seems like every single character is retarded and the movie insults an entire race of people.


I wonder if it would have any positive effect on society if suddenly all black characters in TV shows and movies always had a positive role. Like instead of having every black person be a gangster, black characters would be the police, lawyers, doctors, engineers, research scientists, etc.
edit: Black characters should also speak in proper English. Actually, the top black actors already speak proper English. Morgan Freeman, Cuba Gooding Jr, Forest Whitaker, etc. I thought it was funny how in the movie Malibu's Most Wanted, the black characters in the movie were well spoken actors with professional training in drama, but they are hired to fake kidnap a white guy and speak in ebonics. They were angry that they had all this awesome training but were typecast into being criminals who can't speak properly when the whole point of going to school was to avoid that kind of life

 

[StageLeft]

It's weird that movies where 90% of the cast is black seem to have the worst stereotypes against black people. When white people make a movie, the black guy dies first and the bad guy is black. In black movies, it seems like every single character is retarded and the movie insults an entire race of people.

I've found the same thing. These movies are full of black people acting like total idiots, like black pauly shores. I refuse to watch any of them.

 

[nick1985]

I've found the same thing. These movies are full of black people acting like total idiots, like black pauly shores. I refuse to watch any of them.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0367085/

 

[Ns1]

I've found the same thing. These movies are full of black people acting like total idiots, like black pauly shores. I refuse to watch any of them.

blame ice cube

 

[ShawnD1]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0367085/

IMDB plot summary

Why just fly when you can soar with soul? After a humiliating experience on an airplane, Nashawn Wade sues the airline and is awarded a huge settlement. Determined to make good with the money, Nashawn creates the full service airline of his dreams, complete with sexy stewardesses, funky music, a hot onboard dance club, and a bathroom attendant. Departing from all-new Terminal X in Los Angeles, Soul Plane gives "fly" a whole new meaning taking its passengers on a maiden voyage full of comedy.

That sounds like the most racist thing ever 3.7/10 rating

Couldn't they have made it a movie about a black guy who does something useful with that money? I don't know, maybe he buys a house in the suburbs and starts a 401k?