Black man shoots taser at white police officer. Officer then shoots and kills man. Officer gets fired

[aigomorla]

These things are all criminal acts but none are punishable by death.

Him pointing the taser at the officer and attempting to use it was a clear sign of him willing to use deadly force.
Who knows if he was in the right mind to even realize it was a taser and not a gun.
He still pulled it from the officer ran and then pointed it at him.

If he had hit the officer, there is no way to determine that he would not of went over to pick up the side arm.
This is going to go into a WHAT IF game, but WHAT IF he never ran. He would still be alive.
WHAT IF he never had the taser, he would again still be alive.
Too many WHAT IF's are in favor of the officer more then the Suspect at this point, so the suspect will lose.

The whole thing went wrong the moment he stole the officers weapon, and then pointed it at him.

Why the hell would you pick up a weapon period.

The officer will not get charged.
The DA will know it will be too difficult to prove the officer did it out of malice and not go into mistrial.
Sad thing is there is probably no metro PD which will hire the guy again, and the best he can do is probably go for a wrongful termination lawsuit and go on with his life.

 

[Muse]

This IMO.

Minimally, all the beat cops need to have all the guns and weapons taken away. They need to not be options, then they have to figure out how to work without them.

If they can't do it, then give the responsibilities to other depts/skill sets that can.

Guns and shootings are being used as crutches for bad policing.

Finally, someone who agrees with me. Having a gun on your hip while you work 40 hours a week is too much responsibility for anybody. I don't believe you should have them on your person, in your glove compartment, in the trunk of your car or even in a gun safe in your house.

Spoiler

Fuck the 2nd Amendment.

 

[aigomorla]

Finally, someone who agrees with me. Having a gun on your hip while you work 40 hours a week is too much responsibility for anybody. I don't believe you should have them on your person, in your glove compartment, in the trunk of your car or even in a gun safe in your house.

Spoiler

Fuck the 2nd Amendment.

This only works when no one has guns period.
The problem is in most cases, sometimes there is a chance the car you stopped the guy in the seat has a gun and is ready to unload it on you.

A friend in UK once told me, the cops there dont say stop or i'll shoot, they say STOP or i'll bloody beat you even more.

 

[zzyzxroad]

Him pointing the taser at the officer and attempting to use it was a clear sign of him willing to use deadly force.
Who knows if he was in the right mind to even realize it was a taser and not a gun.
He still pulled it from the officer ran and then pointed it at him.

If he had hit the officer, there is no way to determine that he would not of went over to pick up the side arm.
This is going to go into a WHAT IF game, but WHAT IF he never ran. He would still be alive.
WHAT IF he never had the taser, he would again still be alive.
Too many WHAT IF's are in favor of the officer more then the Suspect at this point, so the suspect will lose.

The whole thing went wrong the moment he stole the officers weapon, and then pointed it at him.

Why the hell would you pick up a weapon period.

The officer will not get charged.
The DA will know it will be too difficult to prove the officer did it out of malice and not go into mistrial.
Sad thing is there is probably no metro PD which will hire the guy again, and the best he can do is probably go for a wrongful termination lawsuit and go on with his life.

This was already borough up several times

If he were alone sure that is valid. He was not. If the man did hit him with a taser, incapacitated him and then the man circled back to take his gun, the officer directly behind him could have taken action. Neither took place so argument not valid. Deadly force was no appropriate here.

As far as getting charged with a crime your right about that.

 

[Muse]

Him pointing the taser at the officer and attempting to use it was a clear sign of him willing to use deadly force.
Who knows if he was in the right mind to even realize it was a taser and not a gun.
He still pulled it from the officer ran and then pointed it at him.

If he had hit the officer, there is no way to determine that he would not of went over to pick up the side arm.
This is going to go into a WHAT IF game, but WHAT IF he never ran. He would still be alive.
WHAT IF he never had the taser, he would again still be alive.
Too many WHAT IF's are in favor of the officer more then the Suspect at this point, so the suspect will lose.

The whole thing went wrong the moment he stole the officers weapon, and then pointed it at him.

Why the hell would you pick up a weapon period.

The officer will not get charged.
The DA will know it will be too difficult to prove the officer did it out of malice and not go into mistrial.
Sad thing is there is probably no metro PD which will hire the guy again, and the best he can do is probably go for a wrongful termination lawsuit and go on with his life.

You're on the side of the cop. Not me. He shot that guy in cold blood. It's nothing unusual, happens all the time in the USA. But you shouldn't say the victim had it coming. He was drunk. Even so, he was totally cooperative until they started cuffing him to take him in. You figure he made a bad decision. You don't know what went down. I figure it likely they roughed him up, maybe said something that triggered him. I figure it's almost for sure they triggered him. That's why he flipped and became violent. The cops, well, at least one of them, was probably the reason this turned into a shit storm.

He was a 27 YO black man. You can tell by the video he knew he was in danger. He knew he might not live to see his wife and kids again. That's the way it is with a black man in America who gets stopped at night in a basically empty parking lot by two gun carrying white cops. His adrenaline was pumping like crazy before they decided to cuff him. He leaves behind a wife and 4 young kids.

 

[Muse]

This only works when no one has guns period.
The problem is in most cases, sometimes there is a chance the car you stopped the guy in the seat has a gun and is ready to unload it on you.

A friend in UK once told me, the cops there dont say stop or i'll shoot, they say STOP or i'll bloody beat you even more.

Make it a badass felony to be in possession of a gun and in 30 years not many people will have them. What's the point of having a gun if it can only get you in trouble?

 

[aigomorla]

He shot that guy in cold blood.

This would only constitute if he just RAN, and not RAN with the taser which he later pointed at the cop.
Again, the deadly force was not exhibited until he turned around and pointed the taser.
The gun was still holstered, the Cop was not running with the pistol at any point in time, nor was the pistol even drawn.

For it to be premeditated or for him to show malice, the gun should of been drawn and pointed before the suspect presents force to the officers.
Like for example when he punched the officer in the face, had the cops drawn the weapon there, that would be malice.
But they didn't, it didnt take until again, he turned around and pointed the weapon at the officer for the officer to pull out his sidearm and discharge it.

This is why this will never go to court.
The suspect showed intent when again he turned around pointed the weapon, even tho its non lethal, it still showed intent.
And if he was too drunk to realize what he was doing, well, he should of ubered the wendy's.
Again, too many WHAT IF scenarios can roll out, which are dead ends in a prosecution case.

This isnt anything like the George Lloyd where that was clearly a act of malice.
You don't stand on top of the neck like that, and Lloyd never had a weapon nor did he ever point it at the officers.

Make it a badass felony to be in possession of a gun and in 30 years not many people will have them. What's the point of having a gun if it can only get you in trouble?

The right to bear arms is a amendment in the constitution incase the government decides to go Hegemony like China and rolls out military force.
Its so the people can stand up and fight.
Although its sort of moot in today's world, but it was originally intended as a stop gap so the new government which followed after british rule would not be able to bully the general populace without heavy resistance.

This is why if America was to ever get invaded in for example Texas, good luck.
Some Texan's have an armory which would rival some police stations.

 

[Muse]

Dude, can't argue with a sick mind. You're talking like you're in court, you're not. Reality is waiting for you.

I didn't call it premeditated. George Floyd's death wasn't either. Chauvin's accused of 2nd degree murder.

 

[CZroe]

You're on the side of the cop. Not me. He shot that guy in cold blood. It's nothing unusual, happens all the time in the USA. But you shouldn't say the victim had it coming. He was drunk. Even so, he was totally cooperative until they started cuffing him to take him in. You figure he made a bad decision. You don't know what went down. I figure it likely they roughed him up, maybe said something that triggered him. I figure it's almost for sure they triggered him. That's why he flipped and became violent. The cops, well, at least one of them, was probably the reason this turned into a shit storm.

He was a 27 YO black man. You can tell by the video he knew he was in danger. He knew he might not live to see his wife and kids again. That's the way it is with a black man in America who gets stopped at night in a basically empty parking lot by two gun carrying white cops. His adrenaline was pumping like crazy before they decided to cuff him. He leaves behind a wife and 4 young kids.

Uh, the entire 40-minute plus encounter video is in this thread. Bodycam footage. Full exchange with audio. The thing that triggered him was their attempt to handcuff him after he failed the breathalyzer test.

Also, I would describe him as passive, not cooperative. He lied about his birthday, changed his story multiple times, would not get back in the car when ordered to repeatedly, went back to sleep when told to move his car, contradicted himself, wouldn't answer simple questions, etc, etc, etc. Now, a lot of that may not be intentionally uncooperative and he definitely wasn't being violent... until he suddenly was.

 

[Jovec]

I figure it likely they roughed him up, maybe said something that triggered him. I figure it's almost for sure they triggered him.

I am curious what triggered him for his previous conviction for family violence/battery? Or for his previous conviction for cruelty to children? Or for his simply battery conviction? What triggered him for his false imprisonment conviction?

I suspect, maybe, that he didn't want to go back to prison for parole violations. I hope your family wasn't on the road when he drove drunk to the Wendys. I hope they weren't nearby if the police just let him go and he wanted to carjack someone to get away. I hope they weren't nearby if he hit the officer with the taser and caused the officer to involuntarily pull the trigger. I also hope they weren't on the road if the police never showed and he most likely drove home drunk once he woke up.

Stop lowering the bar for people, regardless of race. This whole "movement" is saying that there are certain people who are unable to control and are not responsible for their own actions, so we have to change the rules for them. We do that for children, but these are adults. Demand better. Demand some personal accountability and responsibility. Police and police procedure can always be better, but the fastest way to better police encounters is to have better communities and better individuals. He didn't deserve to die (one could argue no one deserves to die unnaturally), but he made a string of bad decisions - change any one of those and this ends with him still being alive.

I am sure the Atlanta PD is hiring. Show us how it's done!

 

[aigomorla]

Dude, can't argue with a sick mind. You're talking like you're in court, you're not. Reality is waiting for you.

I didn't call it premeditated. George Floyd's death wasn't either. Chauvin's accused of 2nd degree murder.

This is PnN, you can call it a tomaeto, and i can call it a tomahto.
So to you i may sound sick, to someone else it can sound logical.

For premeditated or meditated in this case, there is none, which is required for murder charges.
For manslaughter, its different, but the cop wont even get manslaughter.

And there is a link to that George Llyod's may have been premeditated, which is why they bump'd to 2nd degree.
They seemed to both work at the same venue as security, and had history with one another.
Also as he was standing on George's neck as George was begging to be allowed to breathe, he didn't seem bothered by it at all which to me is very disturbing, and also shows a ton of malice.

 

[woolfe9998]

I watched the part with the breathalyzer and them talking to him and I don't think he had a reason to fear he was going to be the next Floyd, the cops were being pretty chill in their handling. The final reaction was the wrong one and proper justice should now take place but damm, he punched a cop in the face after refusing handcuffs then stole a taser and tried to use it, hr has to assume some culpability here.

I would agree, but then again, his own behavior turned from seemingly calm to very aggressively trying to get free the second they started trying to cuff him. He may have feared that being cuffed meant he would be helpless if they tried to harm him. Just like Floyd. It's difficult to explain his behavior otherwise. I don't think the moderate intoxication explains it in and of itself. In the absence of another explanation, I think recently watching video of a cuffed black man being asphyxiated to death by police is as good a hypothesis as any.

 

[Lanyap]

The right to bear arms is a amendment in the constitution incase the government decides to go Hegemony like China and rolls out military force.
Its so the people can stand up and fight.
Although its sort of moot in today's world, but it was originally intended as a stop gap so the new government which followed after british rule would not be able to bully the general populace without heavy resistance.

This is why if America was to ever get invaded in for example Texas, good luck.
Some Texan's have an armory which would rival some police stations.

I know this is off topic but your comment made me think of the situation with Trump. He’s ready to roll out the military against citizens who are peacefully protesting using their 1st amendment right and the people who typically bear arms support him.

 

[Jaskalas]

But you shouldn't say the victim had it coming.

The man started a fight and overpowered two officers. He took a weapon and fired it.
Those actions are clearly what resulted in his death.
Had any one of those aggressive actions not taken place, he would still be alive today.

It is also true that if the officer, injured and blood boiling from the fight, had made another decision in response to that weapon being fired at him - then the... victim would still be alive today. I do agree that the man was a victim, but for different reasons than you. I believe he is a victim of the totality of the circumstances, rather than solely based on malicious action from the officer who shot him. I have trouble judging the officer for his split second decision in the heat of "battle". I would need the expert testimony of other officers involved in violent conflicts to inform me on their ability to make a better decision in that moment. What the expected protocol is and if / how he broke it given the circumstances. How likely it is to make a mistake in moments like that.

My reaction is less on the officer in this case, and more on the setup and how as a society we create moments like this. And in looking for ways to avoid them in the first place.

 

[aigomorla]

My reaction is less on the officer in this case, and more on the setup and how as a society we create moments like this. And in looking for ways to avoid them in the first place.

in complete agreement with this statement.

 

[Maxima1]

This is PnN, you can call it a tomaeto, and i can call it a tomahto.
So to you i may sound sick, to someone else it can sound logical.

For premeditated or meditated in this case, there is none, which is required for murder charges.
For manslaughter, its different, but the cop wont even get manslaughter.

And there is a link to that George Llyod's may have been premeditated, which is why they bump'd to 2nd degree.
They seemed to both work at the same venue as security, and had history with one another.
Also as he was standing on George's neck as George was begging to be allowed to breathe, he didn't seem bothered by it at all which to me is very disturbing, and also shows a ton of malice.

They didn't bump it to 2nd degree murder in the sense of what most people think of. That state has felony murder of the 2nd degree. Felony murder is a low bar. It does not require intent to murder. The theory put forth by Ellison is that Chauvin committed felony assault, which is all what he needs a jury to buy. If someone dies in the process (as obviously did in that case), felony murder kicks in.

This mess to me is a sort of gray area. Best argument against cop using deadly force is that it was most probable that he just intended to slow down the cop in order to escape, since he tried to shoot while still running. Interestingly, I've come across a thread where someone posted a few examples of cops shooting at someone with their taser (one with two cops I believe), yet not prosecuted. I wonder how congruent this was with department policy. It's hard to balance interests of the cops with what some of what the public demands.

I would agree, but then again, his own behavior turned from seemingly calm to very aggressively trying to get free the second they started trying to cuff him. He may have feared that being cuffed meant he would be helpless if they tried to harm him. Just like Floyd. It's difficult to explain his behavior otherwise. I don't think the moderate intoxication explains it in and of itself. In the absence of another explanation, I think recently watching video of a cuffed black man being asphyxiated to death by police is as good a hypothesis as any.

It's FAR FAR more likely that he just didn't want to get arrested. It happens all the time. Why introduce something completely irrational, especially considering this guy points a taser at the cop later on just to maybe improve his chances of escaping a little bit. Even thinking hypothetically about a white person, I can't see that going well. Taser is not seen as simply non-lethal. It's seen more like an intermediate. It's ridiculous seeing all these liberals falling over themselves saying it's totally non-lethal when they've constantly argued the opposite, and there are other considerations for the police (e.g. can potentially take sidearm or easily beaten up if incapacitated, for instance).

 

[JEDIYoda]

Him pointing the taser at the officer and attempting to use it was a clear sign of him willing to use deadly force.
Who knows if he was in the right mind to even realize it was a taser and not a gun.
He still pulled it from the officer ran and then pointed it at him.

If he had hit the officer, there is no way to determine that he would not of went over to pick up the side arm.
This is going to go into a WHAT IF game, but WHAT IF he never ran. He would still be alive.
WHAT IF he never had the taser, he would again still be alive.
Too many WHAT IF's are in favor of the officer more then the Suspect at this point, so the suspect will lose.

The whole thing went wrong the moment he stole the officers weapon, and then pointed it at him.

Why the hell would you pick up a weapon period.

The officer will not get charged.
The DA will know it will be too difficult to prove the officer did it out of malice and not go into mistrial.
Sad thing is there is probably no metro PD which will hire the guy again, and the best he can do is probably go for a wrongful termination lawsuit and go on with his life.

First of all somebody said the victim had it coming!! That is one ignorant statement that is not born out in the facts of the matter!!
So lets play the what if game.....
The man grabbed the taser knowing it was a taser.
He fired the taser or pointed the taser at the cop who was way further than the taser could reach!
There were 2 cops both had weapons out.....
The Police claim a taser is not a lethal weapon, thus the Police cannot shoot a man for grabbing his taser! The Police cannot have it both ways!
Well I killed the dude because he stole my taser and was going to kill me weith it.....
Oh I`m sorry you do know a taser is not lethal.....yuk! Yuk! Yuk!
The cops were so hell bent on an arrest that they failed to deescalate...after all they knew where the dude lived ansd they had all his information from his drivers license....
Plus the police officer yelled several times take your hands of the taser.....brooks knew it was a taser....plus guns are not painted Yellow!
The real issue is the police did so many things wrong....that it is laughable that it is pitiful and laughable that anybody in their right mind would defend the Police......

Rayshard Brooks went from telling Atlanta officer about visiting mother's grave to being fatally shot: Video

Before being shot to death by an Atlanta police officer outside a fast food restaurant, Rayshard Brooks had a cordial conversation with the officers, videos show.

abcnews.go.com

 

[zzyzxroad]

First of all somebody said the victim had it coming!! That is one ignorant statement that is not born out in the facts of the matter!!
So lets play the what if game.....
The man grabbed the taser knowing it was a taser.
He fired the taser or pointed the taser at the cop who was way further than the taser could reach!
There were 2 cops both had weapons out.....
The Police claim a taser is not a lethal weapon, thus the Police cannot shoot a man for grabbing his taser! The Police cannot have it both ways!
Well I killed the dude because he stole my taser and was going to kill me weith it.....
Oh I`m sorry you do know a taser is not lethal.....yuk! Yuk! Yuk!
The cops were so hell bent on an arrest that they failed to deescalate...after all they knew where the dude lived ansd they had all his information from his drivers license....
Plus the police officer yelled several times take your hands of the taser.....brooks knew it was a taser....plus guns are not painted Yellow!
The real issue is the police did so many things wrong....that it is laughable that it is pitiful and laughable that anybody in their right mind would defend the Police......

Rayshard Brooks went from telling Atlanta officer about visiting mother's grave to being fatally shot: Video

Before being shot to death by an Atlanta police officer outside a fast food restaurant, Rayshard Brooks had a cordial conversation with the officers, videos show.

abcnews.go.com

I feel like this keeps getting explained over and over.

 

[CZroe]

First of all somebody said the victim had it coming!! That is one ignorant statement that is not born out in the facts of the matter!!
So lets play the what if game.....
The man grabbed the taser knowing it was a taser.
He fired the taser or pointed the taser at the cop who was way further than the taser could reach!
There were 2 cops both had weapons out.....
The Police claim a taser is not a lethal weapon, thus the Police cannot shoot a man for grabbing his taser! The Police cannot have it both ways!
Well I killed the dude because he stole my taser and was going to kill me weith it.....
Oh I`m sorry you do know a taser is not lethal.....yuk! Yuk! Yuk!
The cops were so hell bent on an arrest that they failed to deescalate...after all they knew where the dude lived ansd they had all his information from his drivers license....
Plus the police officer yelled several times take your hands of the taser.....brooks knew it was a taser....plus guns are not painted Yellow!
The real issue is the police did so many things wrong....that it is laughable that it is pitiful and laughable that anybody in their right mind would defend the Police......

Rayshard Brooks went from telling Atlanta officer about visiting mother's grave to being fatally shot: Video

Before being shot to death by an Atlanta police officer outside a fast food restaurant, Rayshard Brooks had a cordial conversation with the officers, videos show.

abcnews.go.com

I don't think they had his driver's license. They spent the first half of the 40+ minute video with the officer telling him to get back in the car and keep looking for his DL while the guy just ignored him and stood there talking about other stuff.

 

[JEDIYoda]

The man started a fight and overpowered two officers. He took a weapon and fired it.
Those actions are clearly what resulted in his death.
Had any one of those aggressive actions not taken place, he would still be alive today.

It is also true that if the officer, injured and blood boiling from the fight, had made another decision in response to that weapon being fired at him - then the... victim would still be alive today. I do agree that the man was a victim, but for different reasons than you. I believe he is a victim of the totality of the circumstances, rather than solely based on malicious action from the officer who shot him. I have trouble judging the officer for his split second decision in the heat of "battle". I would need the expert testimony of other officers involved in violent conflicts to inform me on their ability to make a better decision in that moment. What the expected protocol is and if / how he broke it given the circumstances. How likely it is to make a mistake in moments like that.

My reaction is less on the officer in this case, and more on the setup and how as a society we create moments like this. And in looking for ways to avoid them in the first place.

First of all you cannot have it both ways....a stun gun according to the manufacturer and the cops consider it to be a non lethal weapon......the cops cannot say they killed the man because he stole their stun gun.....
Second -- The cops in no way tried to deescalate this at all! Things would be different if this was a white guy!
Third -- The cops had his name and address and they did not need to arrest him! He was according to several sources just barely above the legal limit! I bet if he was white they would have tried to help a white man wehose daughters birthday was the next day and who had just visited his mothers grave......
Fourthly -- I have no trouble judging the officer for his blatant need to make an arrest and for his decision to kill a man who fired a non lethal taser and had a back up who already had his own weapon drawn! No need or justification to kill the man!!
Muse is 100% correct!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

I don't think they had his driver's license. They spent the first half of the 40+ minute video with the officer telling him to get back in the car and keep looking for his DL while the guy just ignored him and stood there talking about other stuff.

Lets us say that when the Police decide to ask you take field sobriety test,
they usally have your drivers license and if not they have already run your plates so they did know ehere to find him!
I have read and watched alot of video and i do not see anywhere that he says he can`t find his drivers license....but if thats the case....ok! Thx for pointing that out!

Rayshard Brooks went from telling Atlanta officer about visiting mother's grave to being fatally shot: Video

Before being shot to death by an Atlanta police officer outside a fast food restaurant, Rayshard Brooks had a cordial conversation with the officers, videos show.

abcnews.go.com

"How much did you have to drink tonight?" Bronsan asked Brooks.

Brooks responded, "Not much" and then says he had one drink.

Bronsan asked Brooks for his driver's license and then radioed a dispatcher that he needed a DUI certified officer to respond to the scene.

 

[CZroe]

Lets us say that when the Police decide to ask you take field sobriety test,
they usally have your drivers license and if not they have already run your plates so they did know ehere to find him!
I have read and watched alot of video and i do not see anywhere that he says he can`t find his drivers license....but if thats the case....ok! Thx for pointing that out!

Rayshard Brooks went from telling Atlanta officer about visiting mother's grave to being fatally shot: Video

Before being shot to death by an Atlanta police officer outside a fast food restaurant, Rayshard Brooks had a cordial conversation with the officers, videos show.

abcnews.go.com

"How much did you have to drink tonight?" Bronsan asked Brooks.

Brooks responded, "Not much" and then says he had one drink.

Bronsan asked Brooks for his driver's license and then radioed a dispatcher that he needed a DUI certified officer to respond to the scene.

They said it was a rental car.

 

[zzyzxroad]

They said it was a rental car.

It was a rental, I think the cop had his I'd briefly but for sure ran his info. This is all sort of irrelevant. The man made some really illegal and bad decisions. The cop's life however was not in danger so lethal force was not justified.

 

[JEDIYoda]

They said it was a rental car.

Yes!! Had to serch but it was a Toyota! Still the Police had ways to find out who was driving the rental car! Thx for the info!
1) police run the rental plates. Only rental company information comes up. 2) police call the rental companies "24hr police hotline" 3) rental company "24hr police hotline" provides renter's info to police 4) police run info for suspension / warrant The rental companies do not run your license.

 

[CZroe]

Yes!! Had to serch but it was a Toyota! Still the Police had ways to find out who was driving the rental car! Thx for the info!
1) police run the rental plates. Only rental company information comes up. 2) police call the rental companies "24hr police hotline" 3) rental company "24hr police hotline" provides renter's info to police 4) police run info for suspension / warrant The rental companies do not run your license.

...and if he didn't have ID earlier one can reason that it was probably rented under a different name.

Just sayin' that it's a little more complicated than that. I assume that they had already checked to see if it was reported stolen but if the incident had happened before then they couldn't assume it would lead them to him so easily. Minor detail in the end but still one I keep seeing repeated (that, and his ID).

So, yeah: No ID and the car wasn't his. Even if that did make it impossible to conclusively ID him and track him down later it doesn't excuse shooting him but there were other extenuating circumstances too (obviously). It just isn't as simple as people want to make it.