BLM Dallas protest rally shooting

[shady28]

You are right, it makes a difference of several seconds. It still is not that time consuming to reload a gun with a stripper clip.

Reload is longer until your magazines are empty. Then the magazines take longer than the clips, a lot longer.

There are a lot of reasons magazines are used, principally having to do with a top load being more susceptible to dirt entering the gun, but I've never heard anyone say it has to do with reload time.

 

[Ackmed]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/07/0...suspect-was-angered-by-black-mens-deaths.html

Another shooting that is aimed at a cop, and civilian was killed while wounding more. Black guy was shooter, said he was upset at recent officer involved shootings involving black men. Be interesting to see if the main stream media gives this the same publicity.

 

[norseamd]

Reload is longer until your magazines are empty. Then the magazines take longer than the clips, a lot longer.

There are a lot of reasons magazines are used, principally having to do with a top load being more susceptible to dirt entering the gun, but I've never heard anyone say it has to do with reload time.

I believe stripper clips can be used to quickly reload empty magazines as well.

 

[Jhhnn]

You realize though that ammunition for a AR-15 is more likely to wound than to kill right than 7.62 round SK? That the ammunition for it was designed by DOD from the outset to cause more wounding shots than fatal shots as compared to the 7.62 rounds used in a SK. So that being said you may have actually had a few of those officers survive if their murderer had chosen a AR but I suspect that lunatic choose the SK for the reason above, i.e. its ammunition being more likely to cause fatalities.

If you're making the claim about wounding rather than killing you need to back it up. I realize that it may be part of the mythos of gun culture but it's not part of reality-

In October 1961, William Godel, a senior man at the Advanced Research Projects Agency, sent 10 AR-15s to South Vietnam. The reception was enthusiastic, and in 1962, another 1,000 AR-15s were sent.[45] United States Army Special Forces personnel filed battlefield reports lavishly praising the AR-15 and the stopping-power of the 5.56 mm cartridge, and pressed for its adoption.[35]

The damage caused by the 5.56 mm bullet was originally believed to be caused by "tumbling" due to the slow 1 in 14-inch (360 mm) rifling twist rate.[35][44] However, any pointed lead core bullet will "tumble" after penetration in flesh, because the center of gravity is towards the rear of the bullet. The large wounds observed by soldiers in Vietnam were actually caused by bullet fragmentation, which was created by a combination of the bullet's velocity and construction.[46] These wounds were so devastating, that the photographs remained classified into the 1980s.[47]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle#Adoption

 

[Knowing]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/751821575410880512

President Obama on #Dallas: It's hard to "untangle the motives of the shooter" http://cnn.it/29yN5l8

I'm not going to comment until I can find a transcript of the full remarks.

 

[michal1980]

If you're making the claim about wounding rather than killing you need to back it up. I realize that it may be part of the mythos of gun culture but it's not part of reality-



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle#Adoption

another liberal triggered. need to create your evil boogie man to fight against.

 

[shady28]

I believe stripper clips can be used to quickly reload empty magazines as well.

True if you have the right kind of detachable magazine, but it will still take longer to get back to shooting than with an internal magazine.

Still, that whole focus on capacity and pistol grip rifles is IMO silly. You've got Seung-Hui Cho who used a pair of 10 round pistols, one 9mm the other 22LR, and managed to kill 32 people. Until Orlando, that was the most deadly mass shooting.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/751821575410880512

President Obama on #Dallas: It's hard to "untangle the motives of the shooter" http://cnn.it/29yN5l8

I'm not going to comment until I can find a transcript of the full remarks.

Oh I know! I know!

I'll take "Killing whities" for $400

 

[Jhhnn]

another liberal triggered. need to create your evil boogie man to fight against.

It's merely factual information. 5.56 AR pattern carbines are extremely lethal & highly favored all over the world for the purpose of killing people. Older designs & cartridges are simply less sophisticated.

 

[LegendKiller]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/751821575410880512


I'm not going to comment until I can find a transcript of the full remarks.

Just like it was hard to untangle Orlando. How convenient.

 

[Artdeco]

If you're making the claim about wounding rather than killing you need to back it up. I realize that it may be part of the mythos of gun culture but it's not part of reality-



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle#Adoption

Good lord, do you have any idea the progress made in bullet technology made since then?

Your own link dispels the "tumbling" myth, and I have to tel you, any modern bullet manufacturer can make a bullet that far exceeds the fragmentation witnessed in that particular bullet tested 50 years ago.

Go look on YouTube for ballistic gel tests on hollow points and other bullets designed to do maximum damage, for fucks sake, your drivel gets old.

The sad truth is we're hiding a tiny ass caliber and covering up the horrible truth that it is in fact an elephant gun, you've found us out.

My latest rifle takes a cartridge you can literally put the entire 5.56 round inside of it, brass, bullet, everything.

Modern technology and testing has proven it's an inhumane hunting round because it wounds rather than kills it's intended target so frequently, it's a caliber banned from use to hunt anything but tiny varmints.

Christ, think, instead of spouting drivel and quoting 60 year old testing.

I've tried to explain this to you like you were 5, evidently it didn't stick.

 

[Carson Dyle]

Can we also say it destroys the gun free zone BS and the if only there was a good guy with a gun it would be over quick arguments too?

It's reported that there were as many as 20 openly armed citizens in the crowd, all of them gun "activists". They were swarmed by cops and forced to lay down their arms by many of the hundreds of cops who were in the immediate vicinity, thinking they were being attacked by a small army. Meanwhile ONE guy laid waste to them in the confusion.

I wonder if the perpetrator thought that maybe a few of his fellow citizens who arm themselves against the tyranny of the government would join him in executing those tyrannical thugs. Or maybe he just knew exactly what the police would do in that situation and what a massive clusterfuck he'd create.

 

[1prophet]

Just maybe the only option is for ALL guns to be banned. All of them.
And re-write or remove the second amendment from the constitution.
Doesn't look like anything is going to change with the gun violence. And as far as getting help for the lone wolf, the mentally disturbed, addressing the warning signs, well that doesn't appear to be an answer.
You can't stop what you don't know.
Will there come a time when the violence and the love for guns threatens every citizen?
When the cops become pointless and helpless and the citizenry all sitting ducks?
Just maybe a full on gun ban is necessary nation wide.
Anyone caught with a gun will be arrested and serve time.
Anyone caught selling guns will be arrested and serve time.
And household where a gun is found on the premise, the owner arrested and sent to jail.
And all guns confiscated.
Is this the only true answer for the violence in America?

Why stop with the second amendment,
how about banning any type of recording the police without official permission, to hell with the first amendment,
allow the police to search on suspicion alone, oops no more 4th amendment,
indefinite detention if you refuse to speak, bye bye 5th amendment,

then you won't have to worry about inciting violence against the police.
Because after you give up all these rights in the name of security the police will then treat black people equally, right?

 

[LegendKiller]

If you're making the claim about wounding rather than killing you need to back it up. I realize that it may be part of the mythos of gun culture but it's not part of reality-



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle#Adoption

Just stop. How many rifles currently made have a 14:1 rotation? Furthermore, how much of the ammo currently made are made for tumbling pre entry? You do realize that tumbling pre entry greatly reduces range and accuracy, right? Didn't they create the 5.56 nato to make a more accurate round compared to the 30-06 in semi to auto firing?

And while we are on it, why have so many states outlawed the 5.56 for hunting large game if the tumbling is so present?

That's because it's a fucking myth. The original rotation plus bullet design caused it. Rotation is much higher now and bullet design is better. Most modern tests show there is no pre entry tumbling and most occurs on exit or it it hits something inside. That's why they can't be used for large game in many states, they simply don't have stopping power if shot placement is poor. Because they don't cavitate.

So stop using 50 year old data on different rifles. Modern data shows little to no tumbling.

 

[Artdeco]

Can we also say it destroys the gun free zone BS and the if only there was a good guy with a gun it would be over quick arguments too?

No, it was outside, he was using sniper tactics, and there were a ton of police, tell you what, go to a setting like that, draw a gun and see who the police shoot, they shoot the good guys.

I'd run if armed in a situation like that, take cover and never draw my weapon for fear the police would shoot me.

CC is not a defense against snipers, but I guess critical thinking isn't one of your skill sets, is it?

 

[LegendKiller]

It's reported that there were as many as 20 openly armed citizens in the crowd, all of them gun "activists". They were swarmed by cops and forced to lay down their arms by many of the hundreds of cops who were in the immediate vicinity, thinking they were being attacked by a small army. Meanwhile ONE guy laid waste to them in the confusion.

I wonder if the perpetrator thought that maybe a few of his fellow citizens who arm themselves against the tyranny of the government would join him in executing those tyrannical thugs. Or maybe he just knew exactly what the police would do in that situation and what a massive clusterfuck he'd create.

I have heard this but nothing solid. Any link to it?

 

[Knowing]

This is the closest I could get since the White House hasn't posted transcripts yet.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-comments-on-americas-terrible-week-demented-dallas-shooter/

The president urged Americans to not "let the actions of a few define all of us," saying that the "demented individual" who carried out the attack in Dallas was "no more representative of African-Americans" than Dylann Roof, the suspect in the Charleston, South Carolina church shooting, was of white Americans or Omar Mateen, the gunman in the Orlando nightclub massacre, was of Muslim Americans.
"They don't speak for us - that's not who we are," the president said. Asked later on what caused the Dallas attacker to open fire on police officer, he added that it's "very hard to untangle the motives of this shooter."

It's interesting that he brings up Charleston today, because there is a transcript of that:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...-president-shooting-charleston-south-carolina

The fact that this took place in a black church obviously also raises questions about a dark part of our history. This is not the first time that black churches have been attacked. And we know that hatred across races and faiths pose a particular threat to our democracy and our ideals.

Now I can accept that he's referencing a shooting that happened in a black church, and sure it could have been pure happenstance that the Dallas shooter hit predominantly (all?) white people. However, that's not the case according to what the Chief of Police in Dallas said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/09/us/dallas-police-shooting.html

The suspect said he was upset at white people. The suspect stated he wanted to kill white people, especially white officers.”

Maybe the New York Times turned in to a Klan rag last night I dunno, here's CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1607/08/cnr.07.html

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE CHIEF: The suspect said he was upset about black live matter. He said he was upset about the recent police shootings. The suspect said he was upset at white people.

[15:05:00]

The suspect stated he wanted to kill white people, especially white officers.

Now the suspect is dead so unless the Feds have some way of resurrecting the dead, I'm pretty sure that the records of his discourse with the negotiator are all we're going to get. Oh, and the black power rhetoric all over his facebook... and the posthumous manifesto if it's real. Pretty consistent message through all of the available information. I don't see any tangles but I'm willing to submit my logic to the most critical analysis.

Please tell me where the tangles are.

 

[Jhhnn]

Just stop. How many rifles currently made have a 14:1 rotation? Furthermore, how much of the ammo currently made are made for tumbling pre entry? You do realize that tumbling pre entry greatly reduces range and accuracy, right? Didn't they create the 5.56 nato to make a more accurate round compared to the 30-06 in semi to auto firing?

And while we are on it, why have so many states outlawed the 5.56 for hunting large game if the tumbling is so present?

That's because it's a fucking myth. The original rotation plus bullet design caused it. Rotation is much higher now and bullet design is better. Most modern tests show there is no pre entry tumbling and most occurs on exit or it it hits something inside. That's why they can't be used for large game in many states, they simply don't have stopping power if shot placement is poor. Because they don't cavitate.

So stop using 50 year old data on different rifles. Modern data shows little to no tumbling.

It's pretty astounding what righties believe about a lot of things, particularly when the truth is easily available-

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/10/17/twc-tests-m855a1-yes-its-the-real-deal/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cubk6CyPTxw&feature=youtu.be

Bullet fragmentation is obvious in both videos or any others you'd care to find.

 

[Artdeco]

Jhhnn, What we're trying to say is you're looking at those tests in isolation to what other rounds can do, look at what a hollowpoint 308 does in ballistics gel, or any other modern hollowpoint bullet.

The states don't just arbitrarily say that a specific round is banned for hunting, compared to other cartridges, the 5.56 doesn't do enough damage.

We're not trying to play a trick on you, we're trying to educate you.

One of the things that happens is a particular caliber is popular because it's widely used and available, it's not an endorsement of it's effectiveness.

You're arguing one round is more lethal than another, and we're trying to tell you yes, bullets cause death, but it's all relative, and the 5.56 is a little fish in a big pond.

I have a concealed carry permit, and the reason you carry a gun is to shoot (gasp) people. I use a 45 GAP pistol as my concealed carry gun, a subcompact pistol with a round that equals a 45 ACP in a smaller cartridge. I keep it loaded with bullets that cause maximum damage by spreading out by design, they cause hydrostatic damage as a result.

I'm not trying to play semantic games and say bullets don't kill people, some are very specifically designed to kill people, and you can buy them at Wal Mart. You're focusing on one round, and you're being obtuse to the whole point of many many weapons, to shoot people, you act like the 5.56 is the debbil, and we're trying to tell you it's moronic to focus on one round like you are. It's childlike and simplistic, is that really how you wish to be perceived, childlike and simplistic?

https://youtu.be/bqziWTq7X1c

And I'm a fucking democrat, thank you very much. Guns are one of the few things I disagree with the party on, but it's a big tent.

 

[norseamd]

It's merely factual information. 5.56 AR pattern carbines are extremely lethal & highly favored all over the world for the purpose of killing people. Older designs & cartridges are simply less sophisticated.

The 5.56 is a fairly old cartridge, there have been some improvements, especially in the guns themselves, like ultra-short 5.56 carbines replacing old 9mm SMGs like the famous MP5, but over even the last 50 years, and in many ways even over the last 100 years, there has not been that much advancement of small arms technology. Repeating firearms and cartridges first started getting produced and adopted in the mid to late 1800s, machine guns and smokeless powder in the late 1800s, lightweight machineguns and SMGs in the early 1900s and WW1, and assault rifles from the end of WW2 and the 50s were probably the last major advance of small arms.

 

[shady28]

More shooting in Dallas :

Reports of shots fired near Dallas Police headquarters

 

[Perknose]

More shooting in Dallas :

Reports of shots fired near Dallas Police headquarters

Uh, no. From your own link, updated:

A DPD spokesperson later clarified no shots were fired at headquarters or the parking garage. SWAT officers set off a device to enter a locked fence that may have been confused with the sound of gunfire.

 

[Knowing]

https://twitter.com/DallasPD/status/751921317432037376

MEDIA: please stop all live feeds of DPD headquarters and the parking garage right now for the safety of our officers.

 

[Jhhnn]

What we're trying to say is you're looking at those tests in isolation to what other rounds can do, look at what a hollowpoint 308 does in ballistics gel, or any other modern hollowpoint bullet.

The states don't just arbitrarily say that a specific round is banned for hunting, compared to other cartridges, the 5.56 doesn't do enough damage.

We're not trying to play a trick on you, we're trying to educate you.

And I'm a fucking democrat, thank you very much.

The original remark to which I took exception was that the 5.56 was designed to wound rather than kill which is pure horseshit.

Going on about how this round or that round is more powerful misses the point quite intentionally. AR pattern 5.56 carbines are state of the art combat weapons. Other than also being useful for mass murder of any sort they're toys for enthusiasts. As you say, they're not suitable for big game but human beings are relatively easy to kill.

The shooter in Dallas used a less efficient system thus limiting his killing power.

 

[Jaskalas]

Uh, no. From your own link, updated:

What happened to good old bolt cutters?