Blog about flu vaccine that has been circulating at the hospital my wife works at

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: eits
i don't know anyone saying take airborne or vitamin c to decrease the risk of getting swine flu... i am hearing, however, vitamin d, l-lysine, and echinacea from medical doctors and chiropractors alike.

personally, i'm against taking the flu vaccine... not because i'm afraid of it or anything, but because it's ineffective and gives more money to pharmaceutical companies. even though there's been a geometric growth in the flu shot given per year since the 80s, the number of deaths due to flu stays the same. it's mainly because the cdc predicts what flu strain will be big for a certain year and vaccines are made based on that prediction. however, there are a bunch of different flu strains that are out there, so the shot people get don't protect them from that strain. it's like having bad weathermen in charge of predicting what flu vaccine to manufacture for a certain year.

also, the vaccine they're using is very similar to the one that caused more harm than good back in '76. i'm sure the public doesn't want to risk getting guillain-barre syndrome if they can avoid it... especially when the swine flu has a mortality rate that's the same as the seasonal flu.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/..._h1n1_vaccine_dangers/

excuse me if i don't wanna get a shot for something i probably won't have OR more than likely won't die from. whatever doesn't kill me usually makes me stronger.

Seriously, I'm thinking about heading to my chiropractor tomorrow for a chronic, nagging back pain. I have no problem with chiropractors. But, I'd think that anyone who calls himself a doctor should be able to analyze the data out there and realize that the benefits of the vaccination FAR outweigh the dangers. Any professional health care provider who relies on anecdotal evidence or metacafe videos...

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: eits
i don't know anyone saying take airborne or vitamin c to decrease the risk of getting swine flu... i am hearing, however, vitamin d, l-lysine, and echinacea from medical doctors and chiropractors alike.

personally, i'm against taking the flu vaccine... not because i'm afraid of it or anything, but because it's ineffective and gives more money to pharmaceutical companies. even though there's been a geometric growth in the flu shot given per year since the 80s, the number of deaths due to flu stays the same. it's mainly because the cdc predicts what flu strain will be big for a certain year and vaccines are made based on that prediction. however, there are a bunch of different flu strains that are out there, so the shot people get don't protect them from that strain. it's like having bad weathermen in charge of predicting what flu vaccine to manufacture for a certain year.

also, the vaccine they're using is very similar to the one that caused more harm than good back in '76. i'm sure the public doesn't want to risk getting guillain-barre syndrome if they can avoid it... especially when the swine flu has a mortality rate that's the same as the seasonal flu.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/..._h1n1_vaccine_dangers/

excuse me if i don't wanna get a shot for something i probably won't have OR more than likely won't die from. whatever doesn't kill me usually makes me stronger.

Bashing flu vaccines and linking metacafe videos really isnt helping your credibility as a healthcare provider. The method theyre making the h1n1 vaccine is the same method they use to make all flu vaccines. The chance of GBS is NEGLIGIBLE. It's like saying you want ot avoid chiropractics because theres a risk you'll break your neck.

Yes # of flu deaths stay the same while the # of old people is rising dramatically. If the flu shot didnt do anything, shouldnt the rate of flu deaths incraese to mirror the increase in the most susceptible population?

Please provide actual, peer reviewed, data that says the vaccine does more harm than good. Dont link metacafe videos or random websites

don't worry about where i got the video... just worry about the content of the video.

also, this was what i was talking about...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...2/AR2005102200063.html

i also came across this video too... not exactly comforting. i'm just saying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4SmFxyust0

i'm not saying no one should ever take it... i'm sure eventually, they'll come out with a safe h1n1 vaccine... i'm just not convinced this one is it yet. also, i think it should be reserved for those who are at risk, since it's apparently more difficult to make. they're making it the same way they make the seasonal flu vaccines (which was how they made it in 1976, too).

But you have no credible safety data to back up that its any less safe than teh vaccines we have now. Unless you are claiming regular flu shots are unsafe as well. Once again, please stop digging up youtube videos and newspaper clippings. Find me an abstract from a credible peer reviewed journal that that says flu vaccines do more harm than good.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: eits
also, the vaccine they're using is very similar to the one that caused more harm than good back in '76. i'm sure the public doesn't want to risk getting guillain-barre syndrome if they can avoid it.

Guillain-Barre Syndrom from vaccines affects about 1 person per million (source). Chiropractic manipulations cause strokes in patients somewhere between 1 in 40,000 and 1 in 10 million manipulations (source). By your logic, no one should ever get a chiropractic manipulation. Thanks for playing.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: eits
i don't know anyone saying take airborne or vitamin c to decrease the risk of getting swine flu... i am hearing, however, vitamin d, l-lysine, and echinacea from medical doctors and chiropractors alike.

personally, i'm against taking the flu vaccine... not because i'm afraid of it or anything, but because it's ineffective and gives more money to pharmaceutical companies. even though there's been a geometric growth in the flu shot given per year since the 80s, the number of deaths due to flu stays the same. it's mainly because the cdc predicts what flu strain will be big for a certain year and vaccines are made based on that prediction. however, there are a bunch of different flu strains that are out there, so the shot people get don't protect them from that strain. it's like having bad weathermen in charge of predicting what flu vaccine to manufacture for a certain year.

also, the vaccine they're using is very similar to the one that caused more harm than good back in '76. i'm sure the public doesn't want to risk getting guillain-barre syndrome if they can avoid it... especially when the swine flu has a mortality rate that's the same as the seasonal flu.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/..._h1n1_vaccine_dangers/

excuse me if i don't wanna get a shot for something i probably won't have OR more than likely won't die from. whatever doesn't kill me usually makes me stronger.

Seriously, I'm thinking about heading to my chiropractor tomorrow for a chronic, nagging back pain. I have no problem with chiropractors. But, I'd think that anyone who calls himself a doctor should be able to analyze the data out there and realize that the benefits of the vaccination FAR outweigh the dangers. Any professional health care provider who relies on anecdotal evidence or metacafe videos...

in general, yes... on a statistical standpoint. but that doesn't mean the risks are minimal. either way, the vaccine needs to undergo more studies to become more safe in my opinion... or at least proven to be as close to 100% safe as possible with no long-term or serious side effects.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: eits
also, the vaccine they're using is very similar to the one that caused more harm than good back in '76. i'm sure the public doesn't want to risk getting guillain-barre syndrome if they can avoid it.

Guillain-Barre Syndrom from vaccines affects about 1 person per million (source). Chiropractic manipulations cause strokes in patients somewhere between 1 in 40,000 and 1 in 10 million manipulations (source). By your logic, no one should ever get a chiropractic manipulation. Thanks for playing.

um, guillain-barre syndrome was the major side effect of the 1976 swine flu vaccine. it hurt more people than it helped.

also, chiropractic adjustments are associated with stroke in anywhere between 1:500,000 or 1:5,600,000... not 1:40,000. and, no, they don't "cause" stroke. they are associated with. in research, you can't really say something causes something else... you can say there's a strong correlation to or is strongly associated with. in fact, the latest study i heard about suggests that most of the cases of stroke that were associated with chiropractic care involved patients who walked in the door already in the middle of having a stroke. the dumbass chiropractor, thinking it's just a headache and not bothering to do any orthopedic tests or neuro exams (which is definitely NOT the standard or what a prudent chiropractor should do, just for the record), goes ahead and administers and adjustment, making it worse, sending the patient to the hospital where medical doctors correctly diagnose the stroke.

http://stroke.ahajournals.org/...ll/strokeaha;32/5/1054
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/short/165/7/907
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=94

the likelihood of dying from taking an advil is higher than the likelihood of getting a stroke from chiropractic.

anyways, back to the topic (swine flu virus)...

 

[JD50]

I usually don't get the flu shot, haven't gotten it in years. However, after seeing eits come out in such strong opposition to the flu shot, I am definitely getting a flu shot this year.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: eits
also, the vaccine they're using is very similar to the one that caused more harm than good back in '76. i'm sure the public doesn't want to risk getting guillain-barre syndrome if they can avoid it.

Guillain-Barre Syndrom from vaccines affects about 1 person per million (source). Chiropractic manipulations cause strokes in patients somewhere between 1 in 40,000 and 1 in 10 million manipulations (source). By your logic, no one should ever get a chiropractic manipulation. Thanks for playing.

Not sure where you are getting your bogus numbers, but at the same time just because something else is less risky, doesn't mean one wants to include it or not.

Sky diving is safer than bike riding in reality. I like bikes, I don't care for sky diving.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
My insurance covers it 100%. Pretty cheap, if you ask me. And, even at $25 (not saying that you're using that as an excuse not to get the shot, but some people will), and assuming that without the shot, I'd average getting the flu once every 7 or 8 years... Hell, I'll happily pay $200 out of pocket to greatly reduce my risk of getting the flu & missing work for a week or more. Missing work causes wayyyy too much work for me.

that's a noble outlook, but in reality I'd be willing to guess a very small fraction of our public would sign up for $200 flu shots. People would rather use their paid sick time.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
You can be infectious before you show any symptoms at all.

Agreed. However, I am under no obligation to protect others from dangers of which I am unaware. If someone is worried about contracting influenza from me when I am asymptomatic, then they need to get the flu shot, not me.

Originally posted by: Jeff7
30,000 per year isn't a threat to our society, you're quite right there. But it's also a society that at least claims to value life, so if a significant of those 30,000 otherwise premature deaths can be prevented, it may well be worth the trouble.
And there's the loss in productivity due to a long illness, which has an economic impact. There are also the intangibles to consider, such as emotional loss from deaths, or stress from being sick and/or missing time from work and quality time with family and friends.

If I worked at a hospital or in a nursing home or a daycare facility, I concede that a flu shot may well be something that I would consider worthwhile, but in each case those professions entail at least a partial commitment to the care of others who are in some way unable to care for themselves. However, I don't interact with the very young or the very old on a daily or even a monthly basis.

Furthermore, your points only hold if we assume that an individual's duty is to society and not to himself (or herself). I do not place society's needs above my own and I am not ashamed of this fact.

I have weighed the risks to myself given my current situation and they do not constitute a significant reason to go out of my way to obtain the flu shot. I do not consider the risks to others because I assume that they are likewise able to weigh their own risks and choose to receive the flu shot or not.

ZV

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: DrPizza
My insurance covers it 100%. Pretty cheap, if you ask me. And, even at $25 (not saying that you're using that as an excuse not to get the shot, but some people will), and assuming that without the shot, I'd average getting the flu once every 7 or 8 years... Hell, I'll happily pay $200 out of pocket to greatly reduce my risk of getting the flu & missing work for a week or more. Missing work causes wayyyy too much work for me.

that's a noble outlook, but in reality I'd be willing to guess a very small fraction of our public would sign up for $200 flu shots. People would rather use their paid sick time.

100% right.


My insurance covers the flu shot 100% for me and my family. so we get it every year.

 

[RbSX]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Fails on the first bullet point. Every year when the USAF had us get the flu shot, half the damn base would be infected with the flu from the shot.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. I would bet money that the illness going around that base was not the flu, but one of the many minor viral infections mentioned in the article.

Heh, like "24hr flu" or "stomach flu."

Guess what, if it's gone in 24hrs, it wasn't flu. And flu is a respiratory infection, so "stomach flu" pretty much can't happen, unless your stomach somehow evolved to serve as a means of breathing.



Yeah, maybe I should get the shot. But, well, as I mentioned, I'm a damn wuss about needles, and then I start just...envisioning the foreign material being injected somewhere under my skin, and it just gets gross from there. And did I mention the pain? And lying doctors? "This won't hurt at all." "No, don't worry, once the needle's out, it won't hurt at all." Guess what, psychology can't do a damn thing to mitigate the feeling of a hollow metal spike in your arm.

Well someone's a giant fucking pussy.

 

[bdude]

I Hope you all get the flu. Have a nice day

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: bdude
I Hope you all get the flu. Have a nice day

Already had it, so there.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I get a flu shot every year. I am not a dumb ass.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

Originally posted by: Gibsons

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

How the hell do you guys have 40,000 traffic accident deaths per year?

The UK figure for 2007 was 2,946 deaths...

Just a guess, but America has much more of a car culture than the UK, we drive everywhere and typically have either shitty public transportation or none at all.

More importantly, we also have rednecks.

Looking at the figures you have ~7.5 times more vehicles, and ~13 times more deaths. I though that the difference in vehicle numbers was less. I guess you have a higher annual driving distance as well.

Plus rednecks.

We also have nearly 5x the population of the UK.

Population of the UK: 60,943,912
Population of the US: 304,059,724

Plus rednecks.

 

[marvdmartian]

Two best quotes from this:

Gullible dumb ass cubed then squared.

and

If you don't get the vaccine you do not have to worry about the zombie apocalypse, because zombies eat brains.

:laugh:

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

31 years and no flu shots. Oh, and a real solid way to argue your point is to call other people dumb asses :disgust:

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

Originally posted by: Gibsons

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

How the hell do you guys have 40,000 traffic accident deaths per year?

The UK figure for 2007 was 2,946 deaths...

Just a guess, but America has much more of a car culture than the UK, we drive everywhere and typically have either shitty public transportation or none at all.

More importantly, we also have rednecks.

Looking at the figures you have ~7.5 times more vehicles, and ~13 times more deaths. I though that the difference in vehicle numbers was less. I guess you have a higher annual driving distance as well.

Plus rednecks.

We also have nearly 5x the population of the UK.

Population of the UK: 60,943,912
Population of the US: 304,059,724

Plus rednecks.

careful, you will confuse him.

 

[torpid]

The prior two years I have run a fever of 102 after getting the flu shot. No other symptoms though. I don't know why anyone would confuse that with actually getting the flu...

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
31 years and no flu shots. Oh, and a real solid way to argue your point is to call other people dumb asses :disgust:

A real great way to argue is to use anecdotal evidence :roll:

 

[rh71]

and you work in health care

That's the most important part right there. If you work among the frequently sick, you'd be a dumbass not to protect yourself. For people like me, work at home, stay at home, out only a handful of times a week, have never had the flu... why would I feel inclined to jump at the chance? My infants have been getting vaccinated as normal and almost every time, they develop a fever a day or two later. We're due for the MMR shot and we scheduled it till AFTER some events because undoubtedly they will get a fever. That's how much of a nuisance it is but it is the normal course for kids... fine. For me, my situations? Not so much.

 

[T9D]

...

 

[maziwanka]

i just dont see the point in everyone trying to get the flu shot. it makes new strains stronger and nastier. if you limit the shot to those really at risk (very young, the elderly and the sick) that would be best, i think. everyone and their mom don't need this

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: maziwanka
i just dont see the point in everyone trying to get the flu shot. it makes new strains stronger and nastier. if you limit the shot to those really at risk (very young, the elderly and the sick) that would be best, i think. everyone and their mom don't need this

Vaccination has nothing to do with propelling the virus to get stronger or mutate. It does these things regardless of vaccination.

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: v1001
I'm not getting one either and never will. I'm ok with getting the flu once in a while.

are you ok with dying?