Blown engine due to improperly seated oil filter!!

[djheater]

One should check the oil at the first fill up after an oil change, always.

 

[tfinch2]

$8000 for a new engine at a Honda dealer?

MAN They are trying to stick it to you.

 

[thehstrybean]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: crispy2010
This happened to a person on the wifes side. The place didnt put the drain screw back in. Allthough the engine seized on the freeway on her way home. The place paid for a new engine. I would think you would have seen oil somewhere, after a month of driving!

wtf you'd lose all of that oil before you pull out of that place.

But that doesn't do it. An engine can operate without oil. It's heat that siezes the engine up. Sure, the place should have got it. Or maybe he meant that they didn't put it in all the way. Regardless, any person should change all their own fluids (I do engine oil, tranny, and differential fluid)

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
there is nothing about losing oil that would iluminate the MIL, as has been said 300 times in this thread.

however, your RED OIL PRESSURE LIGHT was on, which you conveniently didn't see.

That's correct...you know, the red light that is illuminated with the key in the "on" position, just before you start the car?

Yep, it was on the whole time.

 

[NTB]

Something similar happened to my dad a few years back. Fortunately for him, it didn't end quite so badly. Rather than draining out slowly, the oild all drained out at once: the oil filter literally popped off as he started to pull across an intersection after waiting for a read light.

He limped it into Jiffy-Lube which, fortunately, was only a hundred yards away or so. Another car pulled in right behind him, and the man sitting in it handed him his oil filter As luck would have it, the guy was the manager of that particular Jiffy-Lube, and was just coming in to work (this was at 6:30 or 7:00am). Turns out that whatever dumbass had originally changed his oil had managed to jam an oil filter for a tiny little compact car (Nissan, I think?) onto the engine in his Chevy Silverado.

Anyway, the Jiffy-Lube guys checked his truck out and fixed him up with a new (proper) filter and oil, and he was in good shape. No permanant damage done, fortunately.

Nathan

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: tfinch2
$8000 for a new engine at a Honda dealer?

MAN They are trying to stick it to you.

it's high, but if the dealer qouted him a factory new long block, at dealer labor rates, it's not that crazy.

you can get done cheaper for sure if you go to a independent shop and junkyard engine, but if the lube shops insurance pays for it, probably doesn't matter.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: thehstrybean

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: crispy2010
This happened to a person on the wifes side. The place didnt put the drain screw back in. Allthough the engine seized on the freeway on her way home. The place paid for a new engine. I would think you would have seen oil somewhere, after a month of driving!

wtf you'd lose all of that oil before you pull out of that place.

But that doesn't do it. An engine can operate without oil. It's heat that siezes the engine up.

This is true. You can drain the oil from any car and it will run and drive for a lot longer than you think.

True story: When I was a young service tech at a Ford dealership, I once performed a 30k service on a 1992 Explorer. Oil change, trans service, fuel filter, coolant flush, brake job, balance, etc, etc....plus an injector flush.
Now my routine was to do everything else, then do the injector flush last, after the rest of the stuff was buttoned up, then go drive it and make sure it was okay.
This was on a Friday, and Friday was when the tool truck came by. It was near the end of the day, and all I had left was the injector flush. The flusher we had actually was pressurized by air, and you hooked it up in place of the vehicle's fuel supply, and the car actually ran on the cleaner solution. (disabled the fuel pump)
When the injector cleaner ran out, the car cut off...then you hook up the fuel lines, fire it up and test drive.
So I hooked up the cleaner and went to the tool truck. Stayed on there BS'ing for probably a half an hour. Came back, the Explorer had cut off, out of cleaner.
I hook everything back up,START THE ENGINE AGAIN, wash up, get in, and start backing out of my stall....as I backed out, I noticed the oil light on...and my gaze rose right up, to look out the windshield at the 5 quarts of oil still sitting on my workbench. Oops.
Shut it off, put the oil in, restart. No noise. Oil pressure is good....got out a manual gauge and checked, even.
Since it was a 30k service, I figured, "oh well it's still under warranty if it blows"....so I go road test it about 20 miles. Drove the hell out of it, to make sure it was either okay, or started knocking.

I'll have you know I did the 60k service on that same Explorer a year or so later, and it was still running like a champ. Ran 15 minutes without any oil, then another 5 while I washed up. Dude kept it until around 100k, never had an engine problem.

 

[NTB]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: tfinch2
$8000 for a new engine at a Honda dealer?

MAN They are trying to stick it to you.

it's high, but if the dealer qouted him a factory new long block, at dealer labor rates, it's not that crazy.

you can get done cheaper for sure if you go to a independent shop and junkyard engine, but if the lube shops insurance pays for it, probably doesn't matter.

That does sound high. Several years ago my parents bought a cadillac from one of my grandfather's neighbors. A few months and a couple trips to the repairshop later, we found out the engine block was cracked. The dealer quoted us a new engine, and I believe it was in the $5k neighborhood. And that was for a V-8

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: fisheerman
I may be able to shed some light on this

Back in the day I use to be an assistant manager of a Jiffy Lube (same as quick lube except penzol backed)

anyway this problem probably occured from what as know as double gasketing.

what happens is sometimes when you remove an old oil filter from a car the existing gasket in the old oil filter will stay on the motor block oil intake and not come off in the filter. we always taught to check and double check this to make sure that the old gasket was in the filter. but believe it or not people would still forget to check (what do you expect for minimum wage?)

if the old gasket is still on and you place a new filter on the car you end up with a gasket on top of a gasket. In this scenario when the pressure would build you would get blow by from inbetween the gaskets and all the oil would be out of the car.

alot of times this wouldn't happen until the car got hot so upon leaving the shop or even possible for a period of time you wouldn't notice oil leaking. once it did fail it would spew.........

Id be willing to bet this is what happened in your case.

one think as others mentioned though how did you not see the oil or even the temp gauge of the car overheat?

engine don't fail because of the oil not being there, they fail from the resulting heat buildup with the lack of oil.

weird....

-fish

Walmart did this to my Van last year when I was working in Denver and it hasn't been the same since.

It died ina cloud of smoke after I had the oil change a block from getting back to the Hotel.

The manager came and found the double gasket. He put another filter on, filled the oil and got it back to the shop where they cleaned the engine compartment up.

The lifters have knocked like mad ever since though.

 

[Rogodin2]

The lifters have knocked like mad ever since though.

Hydraulic or mechanical?

Rogo

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged
The check-engine light has nothing to do with the fact that they fscked up. Most likely, by the time it would have come on, (assuming that it is indeed supposed to come on for that problem) it would have been too late.

Wrong. If you stop the engine IMMEDIATELY when the low oil pressure light (looks like an oil can) comes on you won't do a damn bit of damage to it.

I want to know from the OP if the oil light came on (note that the oil light is NOT the same as the "check engine" light). I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't have come on, and if you'd stopped the engine when it came on, the engine would not have had issues.

ZV

 

[Aikouka]

I find it amusing that someone says a "car can operate without oil, but will eventually succumb to heat." Do you realize how horrid of a statement that is? The reason the car succumbs to heat is because of lack of proper lubricant, which I'm quite sure you know, and that lack causes extra friction with the piston rings and the cylinder wall.. i.e. that's where your heat comes from. The car will last for some time because the rings are still lubricated until the oil still on them ends up heating up itself (since it wasn't "replaced" by "fresh" oil). Idling a car without the proper amount of oil will not be nearly as problematic as pushing the engine into higher RPMs on the highway.

Also, $8000 is way too high for a new engine, even counting labor. Even without dealer-levels of tools, a layman with another set of hands can replace an engine in a good solid day. I'd know... I've done it by myself.

My old Eagle Talon actually had an issue with oil pressure causing leaks in the oil system, but this was well known as an issue with the DSM cars not creating a proper seal on the oil cooler ring (it went over the oil filter housing... uhh "bolt"), which is why a good majority of tuners will end up using an air-to-water cooler... luckily my import engine came with a filter housing to support such a device... unluckily, I didn't have the funds to buy the small radiator-like cooler .

Also, I don't see the oil pressure light coming on unless there's an issue in the oil lines. Even my talon's light didn't come on when it used to spit oil because of that bad seal but the oil pressure meter sure dropped down a bit, which had me a bit worried at times. I don't see the oil drain bolt causing pressure irregularities either....

EDIT:

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I want to know from the OP if the oil light came on (note that the oil light is NOT the same as the "check engine" light). I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't have come on, and if you'd stopped the engine when it came on, the engine would not have had issues.

ZV

It sounds to me like this happened over a long period of time. Kind of like what would've happened to my talon.. it would've required gradual oil checks to guarantee that it had a proper amount of oil in it. The oil coming out may've dropped the pressure somewhat, but like in my experiences, it didn't drop it far enough for the warning light to come on.

 

[bobsmith1492]

My brother was changing the oil in my dad's '96 Bronco. He had all the oil drained out and filter swapped before realizing the truck was locked and my dad was gone so that he couldn't pop the hood to replace the oil. Of course, he didn't say anything and that was before we got cell phones.

When my dad got home he promptly hopped in the truck and took off across town. On the way back, it started making funny noises; he looked down and the oil pressure gauge was obviously at nil. He parked it right there, we put some oil in it, and it's been fine ever since. My brother sure got chewed out though.

 

[ColdFusion718]

It doesn't matter, whoever did the oil change was responsible. It's called negligence. Let's say hypothetically that the OP was a moron (no offense) and don't know what oil stains looked like. Could one argue that because of that, Quicklube wasn't responsible because the OP didn't see the oil spill and thus take action?

Using the argument that "I'm not at fault because you were at fault after me" is pure lunacy. OP, make sure they pay you for every penny. If you sue them, make them pay your lawyer fees too. I keep hearing more and more stories about chain service stations who hire people who do lousy jobs on cars.

Not everyone has time to change their own oil, that's why they bring it to these places. These people pay $ for a job done right, not for a job which causes more problems.

What happened to accountability?

 

[SampSon]

Usually oil change places will take care of this with very little questions asked.
Hopefully this goes through smooth for you, because it sounds like you ignored all warning signs for a while.

 

[zerocool84]

Dab some oil on the Filter gasket

 

[pradeep1]

The insurance company will most likely try to screw you (I've been through a few similar experiences) using some of the arguments noted earlier. Since the amount of damage is $8000, it will most likely not qualify for small claims court (most states cap that at $5000), so you may have to hire a lawyer.

In these types of cases, the insurer will try to assign some liablity to you since you did not notice the problem until much later. There will probably be some standard disclaimer on the back of the receipt or contract you signed when you picked up the car. I've seen insurers trying to weasle themselves out of a few hundred dollars by claiming that you were partially liable, say 10%, 20%, or 30%, etc. What they do is that they figure an amount that they can weasle out of without you raising too much fuss. They then send you a settlement letter that says this is it, this is how much money we are going to give you, and if you sign this, you basically lose all future claims against them and the insured (Quick Lube). This is where you'll need a lawyer.

But here something you can do. Call your insurance company and talk to them. If they are cool about it, they will go ahead and fix your car and then use their lawyers and muscle to get the money out of Quick Lube's insurer. Usually they are much more nasty than a lawyer you can hire. You will be of course responsible for the deductible, since you will have to make a claim, but your insurance company will try to recover that as well.

I've seen this tactic work better than trying to sue them yourself, since your out-of-pocket is limited to your deductible and of course, if they are going to be butts about this, your premium increase over the next 3-7 years. But that could still be less than having to fight this on your own using a lawyer.

Also, don't forget to factor in rental car costs. An engine replacement will take a good amount of time (I know it can be done in a day, but we are talking about dealer shops, who can sometimes take a week or two), and you'll need a rental at that time. Make sure you ask for that when trying to settle with Quick Lube's insurer.

Good luck and I hope that it does not come to this scenario.

Pradeep

 

[NFS4]

n/t

 

[pradeep1]

NFS4 has posted a message entitled Blown engine due to improperly seated oil filter!!.

The following message was posted on: 05/07/2007 01:55:02 AM

"Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Ahaha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, fvckin' ass off! He's a tight-ass! He's a SADIST! He's an absentee landlord! Worship that? NEVER! "



Is this from George Carlin? And your girlfriend is beautiful.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: ColdFusion718
It doesn't matter, whoever did the oil change was responsible. It's called negligence. Let's say hypothetically that the OP was a moron (no offense) and don't know what oil stains looked like. Could one argue that because of that, Quicklube wasn't responsible because the OP didn't see the oil spill and thus take action?

Using the argument that "I'm not at fault because you were at fault after me" is pure lunacy. OP, make sure they pay you for every penny. If you sue them, make them pay your lawyer fees too. I keep hearing more and more stories about chain service stations who hire people who do lousy jobs on cars.

Not everyone has time to change their own oil, that's why they bring it to these places. These people pay $ for a job done right, not for a job which causes more problems.

What happened to accountability?

Been replaced with Profitability of course.

 

[Namuna]

Further details to answer some of the questions.

- I was only referring to the Check Engine Light because I have no idea what all lights there are available on the panel (the "CEL" was what came up as a reference from google searching). No matter the case, NONE of any of the warning lights ever came on until the fateful day when the Wife went to start it up and heard "bad noises" and then ALL the lights came on.

- Speaking with the Honda repair shop, they said their tech measured a gap in the oil filter to be 1/16".

- Perhaps you can call it ignorance on our part, but we never noticed any oil leaks because we weren't watchful or even knew to watch for them, there was no reason to...It's a 2004 Honda that was running fine and with NO kind of warning lights whatsoever AND we'd had the oil changed just a little over a month ago.

 

[Namuna]

Just wanted to finish this topic out with the resolution I finally got.

I had contacted the Oil Change place and informed them of the situation. They contacted their Insurance Agent and put in a Claim. After the insurance agent sent out their Reps to look the damage over and such, they came to the determination that indeed the Oil Change place was at fault and they approved the claim and will be paying 100% of the repairs as well as the rental car until we get our car back.

Total cost of repairs comes to just under $6,500 and the rental car costs will come out to something around $1,000

I've been keeping a diary of all the calls involved with this whole situation and I could write a book on just that alone. I'm glad this is all finally over.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: fisheerman

one think as others mentioned though how did you not see the oil or even the temp gauge of the car overheat?

engine don't fail because of the oil not being there, they fail from the resulting heat buildup with the lack of oil.

weird....

-fish

The temperature gauge gets its reading from the oil.

 

[Kelemvor]

Unfortunately that's what you get when you go to places like that. When will people learn...

 

[compuwiz1]

A day or two later, you're gold, we would take care of that. A month? Go pound your pud.