~Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD~

[FredFredrickson]

Blue Ray will be the next Beta Max... Sony's proprietery formats (Beta Max, Mini Disc, UMD) have never taken hold, and BR will be no different. What in the world makes you guys think people are going to want to pay Sony prices for all their movies, or that they'll all be rushing out to replace all their extensive DVD collections with a new format anyway? only a few years ago VHS stopped being mainstream, it is way too early for another format change for the general public.

 

[Captante]

Although I voted for Blue Ray in poth polls, I stand on the sidelines & will continue to until either a clear winner emerges or combination drives become available.

 

[neutralizer]

HD-DVD, just because it's cheaper to manufacture and it's not Sony.

 

[Bateluer]

BluRay, I've had need of its massive storage sizes for the last few years.

Granted, I won't be rushing out to buy the burners and disks until sometime in 07, when more plants have converted to the blue laser technology and the price has dropped.

I just can't see myself investing in HD-DVD, as its barely 'present-proof'. With future BluRay disks, you'll be able to get entire TV series on a single disk. HD-DVD cannot make the same boast. <b> In fact, the only thing HD-DVD really has in its favor is cost. </B>

 

[rockyct]

Frankly, if you look at the prices between Blu-ray disks and HD-DVD disks right now, Blu-ray is the same price, if not less than, HD-DVDs. Whatever cost advantage HD-DVDs have, consumers will not see it.

 

[Viper GTS]

It's looking like HD-DVD is already storage limited, & it's been out what... A month?

That's absolutely unacceptable.

Viper GTS

 

[imported_Dirac]

first, the ps3's blu-ray player will be worse than standalone versions of the player (sony has said this).

second, i like the fact that there will be hardly any added costs to hd-dvds. if we encourage this type of technological advancement, the consumer wins in the end. we're not forced to shell out big bucks for new products every couple of years. i feel its much harder to work with an existing product and make it significantly better (i.e. keeping costs down) than it is to "start from scratch" and develop a new, better product (i.e. having high costs of production).

 

[mrrman]

I am for HD-DVD...players are cheaper in price, more movies out right now however that may change. The Sony and Samsung units are $1k which is ridiculous. The Samsung looks like my Xbox inside. From most reviews the quality from the HD-DVD looks better than the blue ray. My friend has the HD Toshiba player and thats where I would put my $ however I will wait until they are lower than $500US. Here are some reviews and pics.

http://www.hddvd.org/messageboard/topic/10/23579/

Toshiba pictures: http://www.diskusjon.no/index.php?showtopic=566106#entry5945198

Samsung pictures (look at the whole page): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=683987&page=2&pp=30

Quoted from techie


I've also found out that Sony is one of the paten holders of the MPEG2 codec and that's the main reason Sony doesn't support the new advanced AVC and VC-1 video codecs with the lack of HD audio tracks because of the DB 25GB discs along with MPEG2 that eats up too much disk space. Since Blu-Ray is having very poor yields with BD 50GB media, current and future releases will be on Single-Layer BD 25GB media with very limited use of Dual-Layer BD 50GB for very long run movies that will cost a lot more because of very poor yields. I've read that Single-Layer BD 25GB media from the Studios yields under 50% and DL BD 50GB worst than that, where as the DL HD-DVD 30GB yields over 95% from the Studios.

Also movie releases by September, BD will have 30 and HD-DVD will have 70.

 

[spacejamz]

FWIW, amazon.com has the original terminator on blu ray for $11.99 on pre-order right now (ships in 2 weeks)...shipping was like $2...

I went ahead ordered 5 element for $19.99 as well, so I got free shipping...2 blu ray movies for $32 shipped...now I need to get a PS3...

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
It's looking like HD-DVD is already storage limited, & it's been out what... A month?

That's absolutely unacceptable.

Viper GTS

Storage Limited?? Where do you get that info from, some of the first releases where 15GB SL releases and where storage limited but I haven't seen anything of that nature with the 30GB ones.

BluRay on the other hand, can't provide any extras because they can't hit the Mpeg2 bitrate they want for most movies, and because of this its PQ is reduced. Then once you see the same old Macro Blocking and Artifacting that we have lived with when watching DVDs, it just adds to that PQ failure. They Should not have used Mpeg2, its inherently unstable, and requires gobs more space to maintain any real quality.

All HD-DVD movies are created using VC-1. Any HD-DVD user can attest to the Lack of any macro blocking, any Artifact, and a PQ quality that surpasses even on its crappier transfers most of these intiall Blur-Ray releases. Add to the Fact that while Blu-Ray has more support from studios Only two companies for each side have actually announced movies.

Universal and Warner Bros for HD-DVD. Sony and Lions Gate for Blu-Ray The rest are holding back a bit.

Which would you rather have Warner and Uni movies or Sony and LGF movies.

 

[Linflas]

BDs will also finally incorporate HDCP, High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection. This is a licensed technology that allows only licensed players to display the media at full resolution. Any players that do not have HDCP will either display a smaller sample or nothing at all. A HDMI interface can be used as it does include HDCP encryption.

I'll pass on Blu-Ray.

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
BluRay, I've had need of its massive storage sizes for the last few years.

Granted, I won't be rushing out to buy the burners and disks until sometime in 07, when more plants have converted to the blue laser technology and the price has dropped.

I just can't see myself investing in HD-DVD, as its barely 'present-proof'. With future BluRay disks, you'll be able to get entire TV series on a single disk. HD-DVD cannot make the same boast. <b> In fact, the only thing HD-DVD really has in its favor is cost. </B>

BD50 if used with a VC1 or the HQ mpeg4 codec would have one use and that is a TV series. But thats not how its being used right now. HD-DVD not only has both Layers up and running right now, But they even a a One sdie HD-DVD other side DVD combo discs.

For most viewings (Movies) with a VC-1 type compression a 50GB disc would be near useless, and with a Mpeg2 compression they absolutely have to have the 50GB discs to a decent viewing experience.

People need to let go of this size benifit, Its really only usefull for computers, and if it is needed I trust the DVD-Forum when they say if need be they should be able to had a third layer and maybe only require a Firmware update.

And on a Final notice, read the enthusiests sites, there seems to be a huge question on whether the Samsung Player can even play DL Blu-Ray Discs.

 

[arod]

Blueray is pretty bad according to the initial reviews.... HD-DVD is half the price and superior PQ.

Teh discs out are 25 gig bluerays using mpeg2 and hd-dvd is 30 gig dual layer using vc-1 (which is mpeg4 and much more efficient that mpeg2)

and the sony blueray player is delayed until october.

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: Linflas

BDs will also finally incorporate HDCP, High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection. This is a licensed technology that allows only licensed players to display the media at full resolution. Any players that do not have HDCP will either display a smaller sample or nothing at all. A HDMI interface can be used as it does include HDCP encryption.

I'll pass on Blu-Ray.

Then You will be Passing on both.

Blu-Ray does include in its specs BD+ which is a technology that lets them release security update to your play on the fly by using new releases to flash the security part of your firmware. It also give both the disc and the player the right to completely wiping/frying your firmware if need be (like if it thinks your player is modded or the discs is hacked) although its unlikely but completely possible for them to do this.

 

[cliftonite]

Blu-Ray

 

[ForumMaster]

blu-ray and blu-ray.

So, as I see it the advantage of Blu-ray technology is its superior memory capacity, and higher performing laser technology, as well as the innovative new protective polymer surface layer. It has been said that because of this new surface layer the discs will be thinner, 0.1mm as compared to 0.6mm, thus allowing more layers to be incorporated if it is to be the same thickness of a HD DVD disc.

it might cost more, but it requires less power due to the bigger aperture and since it is thinner, i predict that muliple layer disc with capacities exceeding 100GB easily. the protective layer is also welcome. also, Blu-ray has the advantage of being second to the market. it improved upon all of HD-DVD's set-backs. it offers the full 1080p instead of HD-DVD's 1080i. it might cost more, but it is worth it.

 

[crystal]

High entry cost of blu-ray players will limite its market share.

votes HD-DVD

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: ForumMaster
blu-ray and blu-ray.

So, as I see it the advantage of Blu-ray technology is its superior memory capacity, and higher performing laser technology, as well as the innovative new protective polymer surface layer. It has been said that because of this new surface layer the discs will be thinner, 0.1mm as compared to 0.6mm, thus allowing more layers to be incorporated if it is to be the same thickness of a HD DVD disc.

it might cost more, but it requires less power due to the bigger aperture and since it is thinner, i predict that muliple layer disc with capacities exceeding 100GB easily. the protective layer is also welcome. also, Blu-ray has the advantage of being second to the market. it improved upon all of HD-DVD's set-backs. it offers the full 1080p instead of HD-DVD's 1080i. it might cost more, but it is worth it.

protective layers have been around before bluray, you can get them on dvdrs ifu wish. its not a big thing. as for multiple layers, its vaporware stuff. its like the 4 layer dvd, its just not practical, but its there to boost product spec numbers. each layer u add ads another chance at failure when manufacturing, its no point if you can just make two discs cheaper. especially when theres no reason for the material to really be on a single disc, how long would this movie be? so its irrelevant stuff basically. and hddvd is also 1080p the first player is 1080i yes, but it can do p. and 100gb+? err no, that would be 4+ layers. besides the lack of need, theres just the cost of doing such a thing. i mean seriously, if you were getting a dvd box set of say lotr in bluray, would you rather have 3 discs or 1? i'd rather have 3. put all the eggs in one basket? naw. plus its easier to sell 3 discs, it seems more of a value marketing wise

 

[gsellis]

I create content. HD-DVD.

BTW, HD-DVD supports VC1, HD MPEG, and H.264,

 

[0roo0roo]

ugh ohs, bluray fifth element botched!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=689241&page=1&pp=30

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: Topweasel
For most viewings (Movies) with a VC-1 type compression a 50GB disc would be near useless, and with a Mpeg2 compression they absolutely have to have the 50GB discs to a decent viewing experience.

People need to let go of this size benifit, Its really only usefull for computers, and if it is needed I trust the DVD-Forum when they say if need be they should be able to had a third layer and maybe only require a Firmware update.

Besides computers and television series, there is no use for 50GB discs. What the hell sense does that make? TV shows on DVD has been the biggest growth segment in the DVD market the past couple years. Not to mention the billions in sales of computer drives for backing up files and making home movies.

How can you just ignore a 66% increase in capacity (50GB vs 30GB)? There is more to the HD market than just watching 2 hour movies.

And on a Final notice, read the enthusiests sites, there seems to be a huge question on whether the Samsung Player can even play DL Blu-Ray Discs.

Only a huge question for the folks that don't do any research before spreading misinformation.

Discussion at AVSforum (read the whole thread)
Samsung BD-1000 Product Manual

Look at page 4 for references to 50GB dual layered discs. The compatability chart on page 8 refers to "single sided" discs. This does not imply that dual layered discs are not compatible.

Blu-ray Discs can store 25 GB (single layer) or 50 GB
(dual layer) on a single sided disc - about 5 to 10
times the capacity of a DVD.
Blu-ray Discs also support the highest quality HD
video available in the industry (up to 1920 x 1080 at
40 Mbit/sec) - Large capacity means no compromise
on video quality. Furthermore, a Blu-ray Disc has the
same familiar size and look as DVD.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: gsellis
I create content. HD-DVD.

BTW, HD-DVD supports VC1, HD MPEG, and H.264,

Blu-ray also supports MPEG2, VC-1, and MPEG4-AVC High Profile (H.264).

HD DVD and Blu-ray are on equal footing on codecs.

 

[0roo0roo]

How can you just ignore a 66% increase in capacity (50GB vs 30GB)? There is more to the HD market than just watching 2 hour movies.

the same way i can ignore dual layer dvd-r's. if it costs less to burn two hddvds then who cares if bluray is a little bigger.

 

[Queasy]

Sounds like the new Blu-Ray players aren't making a splash - link

Reviews are starting to trickle in from those early adopters lucky (?) enough to get their grubby mitts on the first Blu-ray player, the Samsung BD-P1000, ahead of its official launch on June 25. The question on everyone's mind is: now that I've just dropped US$1,000 on a movie player, have I at last scaled the heights of cinematic bliss? The answer is a conclusive "maybe."

The Digital Bits has posted some first thoughts after spending time with the new player. While image quality appears to be good, 1080i HDMI output looks a little flaky (though component output is fine).

First, when I switch to 1080i, I'm noticing some very obvious scaling issues that I don't see when the player is set to 720p. ... Second, I'm noticing a very slight "studdering" problem. About once a second, or maybe once every few seconds, the video seems to hesitate for just a instant - a tiny fraction of a second.

And although the player starts up and loads discs more quickly than Toshiba's HD DVD device, it's no speed demon. Most discs still require at least 30 seconds before being ready for playback. And then, of course, there's the price tag. For this kind of cash, the device should simply be more polished, which leaves the reviewer to conclude that "the Blu-ray camp has dropped a dud with their big launch, too." That said, once the HDMI problem was fixed by switching to component video, the picture quality improved noticeably, and a more complete judgment will have to wait for a full review.

 

[0roo0roo]

ouch