Bullshit they're losing money. They just rolled the CEOs 20 Ferraris into the business expense category and crying like assholes.
Then I guess we should just print more money. I don't see how that could cause any harm to us. Seriously you make it sound like we don't have a care in the world.
Funny, I'm about to lambaste you. Are you ready to bend over? :biggrin:
1) Your first link - that ranking was from 2000 and the only category that matters in that is responsiveness (-Responsiveness, which includes factors such as speed of health services, privacy protections, choice of doctors and quality of amenities. This factor gets a 12.5 percent weight.) which the U.S. scored #1 in the world in. Other categories that they ranked was not a factor that indicates "healthcare". Like mortality, which is based on diet, not healthcare.
http://justbunk.net/2014/02/22/us-ranks-37th-in-quality-of-healthcare-bunk/
Even Factcheck says it's misleading:
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/37th-in-health-performance/
Your second study was from a "liberal think tank" organization. Nice try though.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/f...-the-worst-health-care-system/article/2549790
John Stossel's opinion of your links? You're full of shit.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/08/another_bogus_report_card_fo1.html
Try again. I'd trust a Columbia + University of London study before your proven-to-be-BS studies.
Awful. Fucking awful. smh
You're not a human cash register... Are you saying that you would prefer a less expensive health care system, like the European style socialized systems? (100% coverage for a much smaller percentage of GDP)
The government pays just as much for healthcare as private insurers do or at least really damn close.
No one has been able to adequately explain how we get more stuff for significantly less money.
Cutting out all the insurance company profit, for one. Allowing the government to negotiate prices, for another. Just off the top of my head.Health insurance is so expensive because the underlying product it insures, healthcare, is so expensive. The government pays just as much for healthcare as private insurers do or at least really damn close. I wonder why you think that the underlying costs will go down significantly because we change who pays for it?
At this point, I'm not against single payer. I just don't see how it's going to significantly reduce our cost of healthcare as a percentage of GDP especially considering more people will be insured and I assume more things will be covered. No one has been able to adequately explain how we get more stuff for significantly less money.
Cutting out all the insurance company profit, for one. Allowing the government to negotiate prices, for another. Just off the top of my head.
Cutting out all the insurance company profit, for one. Allowing the government to negotiate prices, for another. Just off the top of my head.
Health insurance is so expensive because the underlying product it insures, healthcare, is so expensive. The government pays just as much for healthcare as private insurers do or at least really damn close. I wonder why you think that the underlying costs will go down significantly because we change who pays for it?
At this point, I'm not against single payer. I just don't see how it's going to significantly reduce our cost of healthcare as a percentage of GDP especially considering more people will be insured and I assume more things will be covered. No one has been able to adequately explain how we get more stuff for significantly less money.
You linked to a stupid WHO 2000 ranking and got called out on it. Glad you enjoyed getting bent over. It was good for me too. :biggrin:The fact check piece actually has some cogent critiques in it. I am being sincere when I say that this is literally the first thing I have ever seen you post that wasn't ignorant or stupid. Like seriously the first one.
There is a problem though, haha. You're trying to say that the US system is superior to the Canadian one but you just linked to a piece that said health care systems were impossible to rank that way. You just owned yourself.
<snip>
That's measuring a single aspect of the health care system. I don't know why you would think that was indicative of the system as a whole?
You linked to a stupid WHO 2000 ranking and got called out on it. Glad you enjoyed getting bent over. It was good for me too. :biggrin:
"Responsiveness" was the only measure of quality, not mortality which is indicative of diet. If you cannot respond to basic logic, then there's no need to discuss this further. Address the other categories of your study. E.g. if anyone thinks a country's mortality age is a function of only healthcare is either stupid and/or fat themselves. Fat people will never understand why they die earlier than normal, and America is one of the fattest populaces in the world.
My second link proved that mortality while in the hospital is what we should be looking at. And the Columbia&London study show that the Brits are way worse at hospital mortality than we are. 4X more likely to die after operation? Awful. Shortage of specialists and lack of intensive care beds for post-op is also a serious indictment. It sounds very similar... like.our.VA. Canada? 52,000 people left their country due to 19 week waitlists for non-emergency care. You realize that's almost half a year waiting for a normal fucking checkup? Yet you think we should be more like these countries? No thanks. We saw what that looks like with the VA.
This is where America (when privatized) excels and is of course ranked #1 in the world. Canada in a sense has the best of both worlds. If you are young and don't need ever get sick, then single payer is best - sure (too bad that's not the majority demographic of our country). If something serious happens that requires a specialist, then hop the border to the U.S. for superior and immediate treatment.
Again, you aren't thinking critically. What does your link say? That Americans are going abroad for medical procedures because they are cheaper, not because of waitlist times or quality. Why are Canadians coming here for treatment? Because of superior quality.Even if I take your numbers at face value and use the CDC's very conservative estimate that means that a smaller percentage of Canadians go abroad for medical care than Americans do.
Lol.
http://www.cdc.gov/features/medicaltourism/
The Fraser Institute says there are several possible reasons Canadians leave the country for medical care. Some patients may have been sent abroad because of a lack of available medical resources; some may have chosen to leave Canada in response to concerns about medical quality; while others might have left because of wait times.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Reading your posts is a case study in an emotionally volatile and weak individual who can be manipulated with inflammatory platitudes. A desperate need to believe we're #1, we're #1 rah rah rah makes anyone susceptible to bad information when the reality doesn't deliver on the need to believe that is true. Belief systems like that are worthless because they are not supported by evidence and often denied by evidence, it's like a religion, just something you need to believe and will ignore reality in order to do so.
I'm a radiologist working for a university network of teaching hospitals here. Medical care is provided on a triage basis. If you need immediate care, you get immediate care and you get exceptional care. Responsiveness is relevant in the context of properly applied triage. A patient presenting with a MI will be immediately taken care of, a hypochondriac complaining about a stomach ache with no presentations guiding something more serious that some acid reflux will not be taken to the cleaners on diagnostics to pad the insurance companies balance sheets and will be referred to a GI by their family physician. Having to wait to see a specialist when you are in a position to wait is an issue how exactly ?
Your post is full of hyperbole, no one waits to see their family physician for a 'check-up' beyond the time of making an appointment and going in to see them in a few days. Medical tourism is a reality for many first world nations. We see plenty of Americans who come here for treatment and pay out of pocket, why ? It's significantly cheaper here for many procedures because costs are not inflated from a for-profit healthcare model.
The only pros I see for the disastrous US healthcare model are that diagnostics for non emergent cases are quicker to take place, and personally, that I would make more money working in the US. Of course I would then have to live in the US, so, not worth it apart from the better weather in the southern part of the country
Again, you aren't thinking critically. What does your link say? That Americans are going abroad for medical procedures because they are cheaper, not because of waitlist times or quality. Why are Canadians coming here for treatment? Because of superior quality.
So thinking critically, and I know that's tough for you, what is the result of our little critical thinking exercise? That some extremely poor Americans are leaving to get dirt cheap and inferior care in their home countries (like mexico) due to cost. And that Canadians are coming here to get superior care even if they have to pay more. So how does this relate to the main point? America boasts higher quality care than Canada and Britain (shown in the Columbia/U of London study), which refutes your braindead links that claim it trails Canada by using misleading indicators of quality.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Reading your posts is a case study in an emotionally volatile and weak individual who can be manipulated with inflammatory platitudes. A desperate need to believe we're #1, we're #1 rah rah rah makes anyone susceptible to bad information when the reality doesn't deliver on the need to believe that is true. Belief systems like that are worthless because they are not supported by evidence and often denied by evidence, it's like a religion, just something you need to believe and will ignore reality in order to do so.
I'm a radiologist working for a university network of teaching hospitals here. Medical care is provided on a triage basis. If you need immediate care, you get immediate care and you get exceptional care. Responsiveness is relevant in the context of properly applied triage. A patient presenting with a MI will be immediately taken care of, a hypochondriac complaining about a stomach ache with no presentations guiding something more serious than some acid reflux will not be taken to the cleaners on diagnostics to pad the insurance companies balance sheets and will be referred to a GI by their family physician. Having to wait to see a specialist when you are in a position to wait is an issue how exactly ?
Your post is full of hyperbole, no one waits to see their family physician for a 'check-up' beyond the time of making an appointment and going in to see them in a few days. Medical tourism is a reality for many first world nations. We see plenty of Americans who come here for treatment and pay out of pocket, why ? It's significantly cheaper here for many procedures because costs are not inflated from a for-profit healthcare model. It isn't just that Americans are taken to the cleaners by private insurers, it's also fleecing on drug pricing and the price of procedures is obscene. A quarter million for a coronary catheterization...
The only pros I see for the disastrous US healthcare model are that diagnostics for non emergent cases are quicker to take place, and personally, that I would make more money working in the US. Of course I would then have to live in the US, so, not worth it apart from the better weather in the southern part of the country
More critical thinking fail. If the young won't ever use their health ins here, then why should they pay for it here? They wouldn't, and longer wait times aren't an issue in Canada for them (+ they won't have to pay). Advantage Canada for younger people. For the elderly, we aren't talking sick - pay attention. It'd be cheaper for them in Canada due to a lower retirement income and they just hop the border if they need something serious. If they're sick, they should be in the U.S., but that's the only scenario. That's why Canada has the best of both worlds. If something serious ever happens, simply hop the border and get world class treatment. Of course we as Americans don't have that luxury and we pay higher overall taxes to boot.I don't think you're in a position to criticize other people for being illogical. We don't need to discuss that study at all, as I accept fact check's critique of it!
Now considering you presumably accept factcheck.org's piece as well, you're in the uncomfortable position of having owned yourself as they said the ranking you're trying to do isn't possible. Oops.
If you view people leaving their country for care in other countries as a sign of a poorly functioning health care system then by your own metric the US is worse than Canada as a larger percentage of our population does that.
You just owned yourself again.
This is impressively illogical. The young and healthy get the least out of single payer while the old and sick get the most.
More critical thinking fail. If the young won't ever use their health ins here, then why should they pay for it here? They wouldn't, and longer wait times aren't an issue in Canada for them (+ they won't have to pay). Advantage Canada for younger people.
For the elderly, we aren't talking sick - pay attention. It'd be cheaper for them in Canada due to a lower retirement income and they just hop the border if they need something serious. If they're sick, they should be in the U.S., but that's the only scenario. That's why Canada has the best of both worlds. If something serious ever happens, simply hop the border and get world class treatment. Of course we as Americans don't have that luxury and we pay higher overall taxes to boot.
I have to tell you that I find your attempts at insulting me to be really funny. Your constant attempts to be the 'alpha' just reek of a massive insecurity problem.
That being said, your position is illogical. It doesn't matter why people are leaving the country to seek medical care elsewhere as individuals doing that are a sign of the system failing. If you aren't getting care because wait times or too long or if you aren't getting care because you can't afford it the outcome is the same. You're the one that tried to use this metric to begin with and it just so turns out that again, by your own metric the US is worse than Canada.
You're in a hole and you should stop digging. You saw a statistic that you thought could help you prove Canada's system was worse but you were too stupid to stop and think how many Americans might be leaving for other countries. Own it and move on.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Reading your posts is a case study in an emotionally volatile and weak individual who can be manipulated with inflammatory platitudes. A desperate need to believe we're #1, we're #1 rah rah rah makes anyone susceptible to bad information when the reality doesn't deliver on the need to believe that is true. Belief systems like that are worthless because they are not supported by evidence and often denied by evidence, it's like a religion, just something you need to believe and will ignore reality in order to do so.
I'm a radiologist working for a university network of teaching hospitals here. Medical care is provided on a triage basis. If you need immediate care, you get immediate care and you get exceptional care. Responsiveness is relevant in the context of properly applied triage. A patient presenting with a MI will be immediately taken care of, a hypochondriac complaining about a stomach ache with no presentations guiding something more serious than some acid reflux will not be taken to the cleaners on diagnostics to pad the insurance companies balance sheets and will be referred to a GI by their family physician. Having to wait to see a specialist when you are in a position to wait is an issue how exactly ?
Your post is full of hyperbole, no one waits to see their family physician for a 'check-up' beyond the time of making an appointment and going in to see them in a few days. Medical tourism is a reality for many first world nations. We see plenty of Americans who come here for treatment and pay out of pocket, why ? It's significantly cheaper here for many procedures because costs are not inflated from a for-profit healthcare model. It isn't just that Americans are taken to the cleaners by private insurers, it's also fleecing on drug pricing and the price of procedures is obscene. A quarter million for a coronary catheterization...
The only pros I see for the disastrous US healthcare model are that diagnostics for non emergent cases are quicker to take place, and personally, that I would make more money working in the US. Of course I would then have to live in the US, so, not worth it apart from the better weather in the southern part of the country
Justices of the Supreme Court of Canada have noted that patients in Canada
die as a result of waiting lists for universally accessible health care. Numerous
studies point not only to this reality but also to the reality that wait times
can have an impact on general health and well-being, which may also result
in untimely demise. The unanswered question has been how many died due
to limitations in accessing timely care? Our analysis estimates that between
25,456 and 63,090 (with a middle value of 44,273) Canadian women may
have died as a result of increased wait times between 1993 and 2009. This
estimated increase in the Canadian mortality rate associated with waiting for
medical treatment was unnecessary and is the result of a health policy regime
that imposes longer wait times on Canadians than are found in the universal-
access healthcare systems of other developed nations.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot...sal-health-care-is-the-goal-dont-copy-canada/Long wait times in Canada have also been observed for basic diagnostic imaging technologies that Americans take for granted, which are crucial for determining the severity of a patient’s condition. In 2013, the average wait time for an MRI was over two months, while Canadians needing a CT scan waited for almost a month.
These wait times are not simply “minor inconveniences.” Patients experience physical pain and suffering, mental anguish, and lost economic productivity while waiting for treatment. One recent estimate (2013) found that the value of time lost due to medical wait times in Canada amounted to approximately $1,200 per patient.
There is also considerable evidence indicating that excessive wait times lead to poorer health outcomes and in some cases, death. Dr. Brian Day, former head of the Canadian Medical Association recently noted that “[d]elayed care often transforms an acute and potentially reversible illness or injury into a chronic, irreversible condition that involves permanent disability.”
Its more like no one has called in our debt because it would crumble the rest of the worlds economy as well. We are not solvent. We are living off of the handouts of other countries. We need to change that.