BMW 325I

[gluck]

I had been looking around for a BMW 325i / G35 but I couldn't find any that met my price range. The best deal on the BMW I found was around $25 K out of the door for a 2001 / 30K miles. I personally think that they are pretty awesome cars but over priced. The G35 are nice and probably the best looking sedans out there. I personally am gonna get one of these cars in next 6-8 months. By that time the G35's will come down and I would be able to find one for $20 K man $$.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Since when did a piece of crap like the Maxima come into this discussion?

I brought it into the discussion because this is the car that replaced an aging BMW for my family. BMW=small expensive car, Maxima=large car with more bang for the buck. That's why I'm discussing it. It's certainly not a piece of crap either. You could keep that expression to describe American sedans or Korean sedans but not a decent car like the Maxima.

Maxima = Crap

Your conclusion contrasts with that arrived at by thousands of maxima owners and car magazines.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: gluck
I had been looking around for a BMW 325i / G35 but I couldn't find any that met my price range. The best deal on the BMW I found was around $25 K out of the door for a 2001 / 30K miles. I personally think that they are pretty awesome cars but over priced. The G35 are nice and probably the best looking sedans out there. I personally am gonna get one of these cars in next 6-8 months. By that time the G35's will come down and I would be able to find one for $20 K man $$.

Any G35 you find in 6-8 months for $20k will surely be beaten up or have a million miles on it

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Since when did a piece of crap like the Maxima come into this discussion?

I brought it into the discussion because this is the car that replaced an aging BMW for my family. BMW=small expensive car, Maxima=large car with more bang for the buck. That's why I'm discussing it. It's certainly not a piece of crap either. You could keep that expression to describe American sedans or Korean sedans but not a decent car like the Maxima.

Maxima = Crap

Your conclusion contrasts with that arrived at by thousands of maxima owners and car magazines.

Don't worry - he probably drives an '89 Escort.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Skoorb


Your conclusion contrasts with that arrived at by thousands of maxima owners and car magazines.

Right, but it is still my opinion and I am entitled to it, sorry but I HATE nissan and Infinity, almost as much as I hate toyota...I think 99.999% of what they make and sell is garbage, and the fanboyism here is just laughable...honestly if people didn't smoke as much nissan pole here then I might like them more....also I will have to dig them up but I could have sworn there were more than a few scathing reviews of the new Maxima, especially when compared to their own Altima and others...

Originally posted by: Don_Vito


Don't worry - he probably drives an '89 Escort.

Have said it probabily a thousand times, and not that I feel the need to vindicate myself, but I drive a 2000 SVT Contour, fully loaded (the only way it came) with under 45K on the clock, 200 HP, 24v DOHC 2.5 L V6, FWD and a royal POS....I followed the Skoorb mentality when buying it and my main considerations were performance and bang for the buck, worst criteria I could have ever used...resale more than blows, driving experience while the power is nice isn't nearly as good as my brothers old 325is (much better interior build quality, overall construction is much better), and cost of ownership is about as expensive as many better cars, my car before that was a heavily modified 1990 Mustang, I was involved in auto racing for a while and still keep up as much as possible but am not nearly into it as I was before, next car will either be some BMW 3 series or an S4.

 

[StageLeft]

Right, but it is still my opinion and I am entitled to it, sorry but I HATE nissan and Infinity, almost as much as I hate toyota...I think 99.999% of what they make and sell is garbage

Why...?

I followed the Skoorb mentality when buying it and my main considerations were performance and bang for the buck, worst criteria I could have ever used...

The problem isn't the criteria, but the fact that you bought a ford contour. Cost of ownership is high because it's a ford, which is also the reason why the build quality sucks and its resale sucks.

BTW bang for buck isn't my only consideration. If it was I'd be driving a mustang GT instead of a maxima

 

[Chadder007]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

wow why r u so anti BMW?

nissan fanboyism showing??

Well, I like the M3 and M5, and I'm sure the 330 is a nice car too, and I like the 7 series, etc. etc. I just think that the 325i is the poor man's BMW. It's for the guy who doesn't care that he just paid a crap load of money for an underpowered car, because it's a BMW, and that's all that matters to him. As mentioned by others here, they are VERY expensive for what you get. It just strikes me that if you're not looking to spend more than the 325i price range, there are several other cars quite significantly superior to it, such as the G35, Acura TL, A4.

325 Underpowered?? Bah. It has lower numbers on HP but BMWs have Always felt like they have had more HP than is listed. Every one I have ever drove has simply felt more powerful than what it is and that is what is so cool about them.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Chadder007

325 Underpowered?? Bah. It has lower numbers on HP but BMWs have Always felt like they have had more HP than is listed. Every one I have ever drove has simply felt more powerful than what it is and that is what is so cool about them.

Well, my 93 sentra feels like you're going pretty darn fast at 110 mph as well, but you're not. Regardless of how subjectively you feel you're going in a 3200 lb 185 horsepower car, the fact is, you're not going very fast. They _are_ underpowered compared to most of their competition.

 

[TitanDiddly]

My brother got a 1986 325 for $1.5k, rust free. Intereior needs major work though. Cracked everything.

 

[JoeMomma]

Originally posted by: bozack
wrongo...323 is the base....

Wrongo. 325 is the base BMW in North America. The 323 ended production after the 2000 model year, replaced by the 325 for 2001. Obviously you are not even close to knowing what you are talking about.

 

[Salvador]

The G35 just beat out the 325 in a recent Car and Driver test. I would have to agree.. All of the BMW 3 Series are nice, but I don't think I could hack the lack of power with the 325. The 330 might be a different story though, but it's quite a bit more expensive. If I had spent the money towards a 330, it would be an M3 for sure though. The M3 is phenomenal. One of the best cars out there for under $100K IMO.

The thing that always bugged me about the 323 was that Mazda had same number for their econobox. Though.. I think it stood for something different.

Sal

 

[freebee]

All this debate over a maxima and a 325?.....two very different cars in terms of performance and demographics. As I've mentioned before, I hate the newer maximas also, but that is due to driveability problems (torque steer) and overall handling. The older Maximas were fine (such as the mule-hoof rear end 95 Maxima SE that I liked so much).

The 325 (and most bmws...not including the x5) have a certain steering and suspension response that few manufacturers have been able to duplicate...its an intangible, not easily categorized in terms of hp, 0-60, skidpad, etc.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Right, but it is still my opinion and I am entitled to it, sorry but I HATE nissan and Infinity, almost as much as I hate toyota...I think 99.999% of what they make and sell is garbage

Why...?

I followed the Skoorb mentality when buying it and my main considerations were performance and bang for the buck, worst criteria I could have ever used...

The problem isn't the criteria, but the fact that you bought a ford contour. Cost of ownership is high because it's a ford, which is also the reason why the build quality sucks and its resale sucks.

BTW bang for buck isn't my only consideration. If it was I'd be driving a mustang GT instead of a maxima

Actually the SVT Contour is a great car, and cost of ownership should not be TOO bad. My mother has had two V-6 Contours that have been highly reliable. That said, I think Bozack's blanket "Maxima = crap" comment is a pretty dramatically stupid one, given the car's longstanding status as one of the quickest, best-handling cars in its class, combined with its overall build integrity and reliability, which are clearly a cut above an SVT Contour's.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: freebee
All this debate over a maxima and a 325?.....two very different cars in terms of performance and demographics. As I've mentioned before, I hate the newer maximas also, but that is due to driveability problems (torque steer) and overall handling. The older Maximas were fine (such as the mule-hoof rear end 95 Maxima SE that I liked so much).

The 325 (and most bmws...not including the x5) have a certain steering and suspension response that few manufacturers have been able to duplicate...its an intangible, not easily categorized in terms of hp, 0-60, skidpad, etc.

No, it's not really a comparison of which car is better: Maxima or 325why...the maxima was merely used to illustrate some of the shortcomings of the 325why - all of which can be made even more apparent by contrasting it with a G35 or TL.

 

[Asharus]

The 325 (and most bmws...not including the x5) have a certain steering and suspension response that few manufacturers have been able to duplicate...its an intangible, not easily categorized in terms of hp, 0-60, skidpad, etc.

This is why I wish people would test drive the damn things before making their judgement based on numbers and reviews.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

The problem isn't the criteria, but the fact that you bought a ford contour. Cost of ownership is high because it's a ford, which is also the reason why the build quality sucks and its resale sucks.

BTW bang for buck isn't my only consideration. If it was I'd be driving a mustang GT instead of a maxima

Why do I hate Nissan? I will be open and honest in saying I hate vitrually all Japanese cars, don't like the styling, don't like the interiors, don't like many of the companies, don't like the owners....there are many factors...I don't like Nissans becuase I really don't like the styling and their interiors...

With re. the Contour SVT, resale sucked because Ford didn't market the car and really didn't give it a chance in the US....it was pitted to go against cars like the 3 series BMW, A4s and others at a much lower cost and from a performance standpoint along with features it did ok...especially since it cost over 10K less fully loaded....I fail to see why cost of ownership for a Ford is high? I am not talking about frequency of service, which I know is more, but just the cost of the work...the labor costs and such associated with what I consider minor repairs are about the same as, if not more than people I know with much nicer cars...

With re. the Mustang comment, honestly that was one of the best cars I had and if I didn't live in NE I would buy one again in a heartbeat....

Originally posted by: JoeMomma
Wrongo. 325 is the base BMW in North America. The 323 ended production after the 2000 model year, replaced by the 325 for 2001. Obviously you are not even close to knowing what you are talking about.

Joemomma if you actually had the capacity to read an entire thread you would see that this was already mentioned about 10 or so posts up....nice to see you are on the ball, also as I said before the new base model will be the 1 series which is a far cry from the 325....obviously I didn't realize they had discontinued the 323 as I see so many out and about that are newer, and last I checked wasn't there about a 10 hp difference between the 323 and the 325?.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Asharus

The 325 (and most bmws...not including the x5) have a certain steering and suspension response that few manufacturers have been able to duplicate...its an intangible, not easily categorized in terms of hp, 0-60, skidpad, etc.

This is why I wish people would test drive the damn things before making their judgement based on numbers and reviews.

We would if we were in the market, but in an abstract forum such as this it's more than a little difficult to compare subjective driving number such as "I give it a 9 on braking, and a 10 on handling, but only a 7 on throttle response."

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
Actually the SVT Contour is a great car, and cost of ownership should not be TOO bad. My mother has had two V-6 Contours that have been highly reliable. That said, I think Bozack's blanket "Maxima = crap" comment is a pretty dramatically stupid one, given the car's longstanding status as one of the quickest, best-handling cars in its class, combined with its overall build integrity and reliability, which are clearly a cut above an SVT Contour's.

Vito, have you ever owned one and driven a CSVT for extended periods of time?? I have, for the past three + years...not saying it isn't overly reliable, just saying the build quality SUCKS, the little minor annoyances and the quality or lack thereof of the components don't make it an enjoyable experience, and the treatment from the dealer is less than stellar...I personally know a few ford mechanics and they all say the same thing, the Contour is a piece of trash...The performance is ok, but if I had to do it over again I would have gotten a nice pre owned BMW or Audi and have been alot happier....however it isn't the "Escort" that you assumed I owned.

I am curious Vito as to what you drive and have owned?

Stupid or not I still think the Maxima is trash, for that money there are so many other options I would persue than that car it isn't even funny...not denying it is a "cut above an SVT Tours" but then again the MSRP is a cool 10K over what I paid for the Tour...I would easily take an A4, or a Used 325 or 323 over a Maxima, or most other Nissans any day of the week.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Skoorb


Your conclusion contrasts with that arrived at by thousands of maxima owners and car magazines.

Right, but it is still my opinion and I am entitled to it, sorry but I HATE nissan and Infinity, almost as much as I hate toyota...I think 99.999% of what they make and sell is garbage, and the fanboyism here is just laughable...honestly if people didn't smoke as much nissan pole here then I might like them more....also I will have to dig them up but I could have sworn there were more than a few scathing reviews of the new Maxima, especially when compared to their own Altima and others...

Originally posted by: Don_Vito


Don't worry - he probably drives an '89 Escort.

Have said it probabily a thousand times, and not that I feel the need to vindicate myself, but I drive a 2000 SVT Contour, fully loaded (the only way it came) with under 45K on the clock, 200 HP, 24v DOHC 2.5 L V6, FWD and a royal POS....I followed the Skoorb mentality when buying it and my main considerations were performance and bang for the buck, worst criteria I could have ever used...resale more than blows, driving experience while the power is nice isn't nearly as good as my brothers old 325is (much better interior build quality, overall construction is much better), and cost of ownership is about as expensive as many better cars, my car before that was a heavily modified 1990 Mustang, I was involved in auto racing for a while and still keep up as much as possible but am not nearly into it as I was before, next car will either be some BMW 3 series or an S4.

I don't think the new Maxima is as good as the previous model in quality. I'm also not a big fan of the front end on the new Maxima. I wouldn't buy one. I think the 2003 is a very good looking car though-good thing huh?

If you are okay with the size of a Contour then a 3-series would definitely be a HUGE step up in quality and driving experience over the SVT Contour.

My main point about the Maxima is that it is much larger than the 3-series and that was a major factor in my decision to buy it along with the insane discounts Nissan was offering when I bought mine. Nissan killed the old Maxima when they released the 2002 Altima which was slightly larger than the Maxima and could be had with basically the same power plant as the 'more upscale' Maxima.

For me to buy a comparably sized BMW I would have had to turn to a 5 series which is much much more expensive. I need the interior room because I have a family and the 3 series just isn't large enough. BMW wasn't an option for me.

I don't think it's fair to dis the Maxima simply because you don't like the fact that people think they are great cars. That is a really poor argument.

I've never meant to imply that the Maxima is a better car than the 3 series. Quite frankly it isn't even in the same league. I was just trying to point out that there are virtues that some Japanese cars have over the BMW. Mainly, lower cost, larger interior and better performance in some respects (slightly worse in others).

I really wouldn't buy another used BMW though. You never REALLY know the history of the car (unless you buy it from someone you know) and the best ownership experience is probably the first 50-60k miles. After that, you start to run into the little niggling repairs every couple months and eventually more extensive repairs will be necessary. We spent easily $3,500 in repairs during the 4 years we owned our car and never had anything major go wrong like engine or transmission.

Here are some items that needed repair on our '94 325i: New radiator ($300), power steering hoses ($300), shocks/struts replaced ($1300), muffler ($300), computer display ($150), belt tensioner ($150), sunroof cassette replaced ($800).

Oh, here's another minor incident we had with the BMW, we put our son in the car seat and my wife backs out of the garage only to find fluid leaking out the bottom of the car and a strong smell of gasoline inside the car. I immediately told her to shut the car off and get our son out of the car. The fuel pump is underneath the rear seat mounted on top of the gas tank and a hose had popped off and gasoline was pooring into the interior of the car and running out through a drain hole next to the fuel pump. Really really poor design if you ask me. That little incident could have ended much worse and it still gives me chills thinking about it.

 

[JulesMaximus]

With re. the Mustang comment, honestly that was one of the best cars I had and if I didn't live in NE I would buy one again in a heartbeat....

I owned two Mustang GTs in the past (one coupe and one convertible) and really enjoyed both of them. Both were great cars and I would buy another one if I didn't need a vehicle with 4 doors. I could make it a third car though after the 2005 comes out...Man, I really like the looks of that car.

This thread has really gotten off topic...

 

[StageLeft]

I would easily take an A4, or a Used 325 or 323 over a Maxima, or most other Nissans any day of the week.

So would I (not a 323 though!) - IF they were of similar year and miles. But, I'd rather drive a ferrari than a maxima as well. Why can't I compare them? The ferrari is not in the same price point, and neither is the maxima and 325why. While you're buying your late 90's 325why for $16k I could be buying a 2002 Maxima, with far less miles, for the same price. Oh yeah, and I'll roast your car's ass too And have room for the kids, and have a warranty. Oh, but you'll have RWD...

1999 323i w/ 77k miles for $17000 or 2002 Maxima w/ 33k miles for $17000 (and remaining factory powertrain warranty)

Geeze, which one is the better buy? :Q

 

[SSibalNom]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: krunchykrome
Hell no. You can find a barely used 325i for $20K with reasonable miles. For $35K, go for the G35 or an Audi A4.

Where? The 3 series have insanely high resale - I would be very surprised to see a "barely used" 325i for less than the high 20s.

auto auction for resellers, get someone to go for you, and youll be able to find it, usually a repo though

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: bozack


I am curious Vito as to what you drive and have owned?

I have owned the following:

'80 Buick Century (my first car, which I inherited in high school) - sucked
'84 Toyota SR5 4WD wagon - great, great car for Wisconsin winters, and fun to drive for its meager power output
'84 Honda Accord - fun little car, and very reliable with 206K miles; great handler
'99 Acura Integra GS-R sedan - fun to drive but very noisy and tiring to drive over long distances
'98 Honda Accord EX V-6 - blah - boring soccer-mom car with surprisingly poor build quality
'01 Nissan Maxima SE (my current car) - basically very nice - quick, quiet, comfy, nice handling; a little weird-looking and has significant torque steer

All but the Buick and Accord had 5-speeds. I can't imagine I will own an automatic car, ever, until I am very old. I guess I would consider a truck or large highway cruiser with an automatic. IMO the various Tiptronic and SMG trannies are an unappealing compromise on the road (though the SMGs are probably great on the track).

My next car will probably be a 330i. I am kinda over Japanese cars, which I find ultimately rather charmless, but I think it is absurd to say they are "crap," when their ultimate reliability is clearly the best in the world, and the idea of not liking Japanese car owners is even more stupid IMO.

 

[Asharus]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

I would easily take an A4, or a Used 325 or 323 over a Maxima, or most other Nissans any day of the week.

So would I (not a 323 though!) - IF they were of similar year and miles. But, I'd rather drive a ferrari than a maxima as well. Why can't I compare them? The ferrari is not in the same price point, and neither is the maxima and 325why. While you're buying your late 90's 325why for $16k I could be buying a 2002 Maxima, with far less miles, for the same price. Oh yeah, and I'll roast your car's ass too And have room for the kids, and have a warranty. Oh, but you'll have RWD...

1999 323i w/ 77k miles for $17000 or 2002 Maxima w/ 33k miles for $17000 (and remaining factory powertrain warranty)

Geeze, which one is the better buy? :Q

For that type of coin I would be looking at 97-03 E39 5 Series, perhaps a 530i or 540i. 3 series is too small.

 

[Ryan]

Meh - I'd rather have a new Acura TL