BMW 325I

[hans007]

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: sxr7171

You cannot compare a 1995 325i to a present 325i, do you know what the weight difference between the two is? Besides those older BMWs due to their lower weight handle better than today's 3-series.

According to Edmunds, a 1995 E36 325i weighs 3087 lb, and a new E46 325i weighs 3216. Not exactly a night-and-day difference.

140 lbs is a pretty good difference, and I was thinking of the 2003 model which was 3285 lbs and that's 200 lb difference. I have to admit that it isn't the night and difference that it seems like I was referring to.

a lot of that extra weight is for improved structural rigidity. not to mention side and head air bags etc. lots more welds and joints in newer cars.


i'd say the g35 is actually pretty light for its size. its around 3300 pounds for the 6 speed., but its a midsize, and has every air bag standard. the bmws probably quote the lightest model with no extra air bags.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: hans007

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: sxr7171

You cannot compare a 1995 325i to a present 325i, do you know what the weight difference between the two is? Besides those older BMWs due to their lower weight handle better than today's 3-series.

According to Edmunds, a 1995 E36 325i weighs 3087 lb, and a new E46 325i weighs 3216. Not exactly a night-and-day difference.

140 lbs is a pretty good difference, and I was thinking of the 2003 model which was 3285 lbs and that's 200 lb difference. I have to admit that it isn't the night and difference that it seems like I was referring to.

a lot of that extra weight is for improved structural rigidity. not to mention side and head air bags etc. lots more welds and joints in newer cars.


i'd say the g35 is actually pretty light for its size. its around 3300 pounds for the 6 speed., but its a midsize, and has every air bag standard. the bmws probably quote the lightest model with no extra air bags.

I'm sure airbags are standard on BMW vehicles, at least 4 if not 6. This isn't a Kia that they make aribags optional or something.

As for improved rigidity that is a good thing, but in order for the car to feel the same they need to increase torque and horse power or reduce gearing for the car to feel the same after increasing weight.

As for them quoting the lighest possible weight, I have to agree with that. I'll bet they quote the most trimmed down model possible. Adding options can increase weight by a lot (stuff like power seats, or moonroof etc.).

 

[StageLeft]

0-60 in 7.2 seconds is slow? What about cornering? Transmission? Road feel? Since when is the definition of a sports sedan just straightline performance?

Honestly yes for a 35k sports sedan 7.2 is not only slow, but "dog slow". Seriously, it is. The TL and G35 are in the 5 second range and this thing doesn't have the self respect to produce a number in the 6. Cornering, transmission, road feel, the G35 has those too

Ask yourself: "When I think of spending $35k on a sports sedan, do I think of being beaten at the lights (since I never go to the track anyway), but plenty of cars that are fully 10k less than mine - AND still can seat a family in them?"

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: Nebor
I'd say that the 325i is definitely underpowered, in my opinion. I'd go for the 330i if I could. THat being said, there's no way I'd take any japanese car (g35, is300) over the 325i.

Basically, you're comparing the evolved economy cars of asia to an Ultimate Driving Machine (tm). No contest.

that is quite possibly the stupidest statement i have ever read.

how is a rear wheel drive , car designed from the ground up made in japan an evolved economy car.

does that make the supra twin turbo which is ridiculously fast, an evolved economy car?

bmw used to make planes engines. does that make the 325i an evolved plane? you sir are a moron. your quote is so biased . the 330 , g35 and is300 are all well engineered cars. i do not think whether the enginieers are from japan or germany matters. the problem with the 325 is that a japanese horse power is just as power fuly as a german one and the japanese cars have more of them.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: hans007

Originally posted by: Nebor
I'd say that the 325i is definitely underpowered, in my opinion. I'd go for the 330i if I could. THat being said, there's no way I'd take any japanese car (g35, is300) over the 325i.

Basically, you're comparing the evolved economy cars of asia to an Ultimate Driving Machine (tm). No contest.

that is quite possibly the stupidest statement i have ever read.

how is a rear wheel drive , car designed from the ground up made in japan an evolved economy car.

does that make the supra twin turbo which is ridiculously fast, an evolved economy car?

bmw used to make planes engines. does that make the 325i an evolved plane? you sir are a moron. your quote is so biased . the 330 , g35 and is300 are all well engineered cars. i do not think whether the enginieers are from japan or germany matters. the problem with the 325 is that a japanese horse power is just as power fuly as a german one and the japanese cars have more of them.

Well, the g30 is an evolved economy car, just as we're evolved from apes. But, we still kick their ass, and the G35 still makes the 325i its bitch and doesn't even break a sweat doing it

 

[Nebor]

It's simple. One car is THE Ultimate Driving Machine (tm) and one is not. The entire basis of BMW has been, "put the driver in a cockpit, they're in charge."

The Nissan has been, "make a car that people will buy instead of a Honda."

A BMW says power, and prestige, "I made it, this is my car."

A japanese car says, "I compromised, but it's a pretty good bargain."

Oh, and for the record, German ponies are WAY stronger than Japanese ones.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Nebor
It's simple. One car is THE Ultimate Driving Machine (tm) and one is not. The entire basis of BMW has been, "put the driver in a cockpit, they're in charge."

The Nissan has been, "make a car that people will buy instead of a Honda."

A BMW says power, and prestige, "I made it, this is my car."

A japanese car says, "I compromised, but it's a pretty good bargain."

Oh, and for the record, German ponies are WAY stronger than Japanese ones.

hahaha, no one in this thread is a BMW whore.

German ponies stronger my ass. I go to the local dragstrip pretty often and BMWs are ass slow. 330s run high 15s, 325s run low 16s. Sorry, that is not fast, especially for a 30-40k car.

 

[StageLeft]

German ponies are WAY stronger than Japanese ones.

A horsepower is a horsepower.

In regards to marketing, well Ford's slogan is "built ford tough". It doesn't mean their car is. Based on what you wrote, if BMW made a 5000 lb bus with 115 horsepower and one wheel drive but the marketing department was sure to add "The ultimate driving machine", well, I guess it would be? You've got your mouth firmly around BMW's bait.

"I compromised, but it's a pretty good bargain."

I can't imagine you're inferring that BMW didn't compromise by giving the car less horsepower than a v6 camry, are you?

A BMW says power, and prestige, "I made it, this is my car."

Yep, you bought the marketing alright

 

[Nebor]

Growing up, everyone knows that a BMW means something. It's money, it's success. A BMW is like a diamond, very strong, and very beautiful. It's value is also dependant on it's image, just like a diamond.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Nebor

A BMW says power, and prestige, "I made it, this is my car."

Well, much of the time it does.

Other times, less so.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Growing up, everyone knows that a BMW means something. It's money, it's success. A BMW is like a diamond, very strong, and very beautiful. It's value is also dependant on it's image, just like a diamond.

Man it must suck then when people bringing their strong, beautiful, diamond like BMWs to the local track only to get eaten up by civics and integras with bolt ons. :Q

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: Nebor
Growing up, everyone knows that a BMW means something. It's money, it's success. A BMW is like a diamond, very strong, and very beautiful. It's value is also dependant on it's image, just like a diamond.

Man it must suck then when people bringing their strong, beautiful, diamond like BMWs to the local track only to get eaten up by civics and integras with bolt ons. :Q

And it must suck being embarassed to go to a nice restaraunt, because then you have to hand the valet the keys to your Honda, to be parked next to a diamond like BMW.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Nebor

And it must suck being embarassed to go to a nice restaraunt, because then you have to hand the valet the keys to your Honda, to be parked next to a diamond like BMW.

Sorry, but a little BMW doesn't say "I made it". It says "look at me, I am trying hard to look like I made it".

 

[ndee]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: Nebor
Growing up, everyone knows that a BMW means something. It's money, it's success. A BMW is like a diamond, very strong, and very beautiful. It's value is also dependant on it's image, just like a diamond.

Man it must suck then when people bringing their strong, beautiful, diamond like BMWs to the local track only to get eaten up by civics and integras with bolt ons. :Q

And it must suck being embarassed to go to a nice restaraunt, because then you have to hand the valet the keys to your Honda, to be parked next to a diamond like BMW.

Nebor, you're jokeing right? My sarcasm-o-meter isn't broken?! just checking.

BTW, I love American horsepower.

 

[CrackaLackaZe]

And a Honda with bolt ons saying "Look at me, I'm trying hard to look like a real sports car!"

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: Nebor

And it must suck being embarassed to go to a nice restaraunt, because then you have to hand the valet the keys to your Honda, to be parked next to a diamond like BMW.

Sorry, but a little BMW doesn't say "I made it". It says "look at me, I am trying hard to look like I made it".

If that's what a BMW says, then does a jap car say, "I never even tried to make it" ?

BTW, I'm also an American muscle car fan, I own a Lightning that I drive from time to time, and my every dayer is an Acura TL Stype.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Nebor

If that's what a BMW says, then does a jap car say, "I never even tried to make it" ?

BTW, I'm also an American muscle car fan, I own a Lightning that I drive from time to time, and my every dayer is an Acura TL Stype.

Well, I'm the kind of person who would rather have a big ranch than a big hat if you've heard the saying. After I finished school, I actually have gone to the BMW dealership a couple of times to consider a 3 series, but whenever I do, I can't help but wonder where all the money went. The one BMW I can't talk smack about is the M3, because of it's one of a kind positioning/features/setup.

The current 3 series is just old, and the current I6 is even older. The engine in particular has existed with nearly the same spec since the early 90s, it's in bad need of an update. Japanese cars despite econobox origins decades ago, can take advantage of the huge economy of scale and interchangability of platforms/parts, to produce very high quality cars at dirt cheap prices.

As for your taste in cars that's cool, I have nothing but respect for american car dominance at the drag strip. Maybe it's because I'm in CA, but imports have come a long way. Of course not as consistently fast as traditional RWD V8 cars, but it's enough that when a civic and a camaro pull up to the tree, you can't just write off the civic anymore. :Q

 

[Nebor]

The inline 6 is a beautiful creation. Obviously the perfect example is in the m3, but also look at Jaguar's, and Volvo's, still using inline 6 cylinder, as well as the awsome inline 5 cylinder. It just seems so much more refined than the v6...

 

[skyking]

I am a big fan of inline 6's, but the advantages of the V engines are hard to ignore:
1) Shorter crank length. This means less flex, and with that the ability to turn higher revs with a lighter assembly.
2) Slightly lower mass, for improved CG.
3) More compact, allowing better placement for weight distribution. Not every marque takes advantage of that, though.

I loved my '66 mustang 6, I could change the oil, plugs, cap, rotor, and points(!) without ever crawling under the car. I could hook the drain pan with the toe of my shoe and drag it out, and get to the drain plug from above

 

[sxr7171]

That fact that an inline six is dynamically balanced makes it a winner in my eyes. No need for balance shafts on an inline six.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I just noticed that the 325i came in #2 in an Automobile Magazine test of cars in the $35K price range a couple of months back. They correctly pointed out that the 325i is basically stripped down to the essence of BMW - a smooth inline six, brilliant steering, a smooth shifter and stellar throttle response. I think people who look down on the 325i because of things like its 0-60 time or comparatively spartan interior miss the point, and I think a 325i would still best its more powerful FWD competitors (think TL or Maxima) over any twisty road.

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: Nebor
It's simple. One car is THE Ultimate Driving Machine (tm) and one is not. The entire basis of BMW has been, "put the driver in a cockpit, they're in charge."

The Nissan has been, "make a car that people will buy instead of a Honda."

A BMW says power, and prestige, "I made it, this is my car."

A japanese car says, "I compromised, but it's a pretty good bargain."

Oh, and for the record, German ponies are WAY stronger than Japanese ones.

Assuming you are serious, how does it feel to be a complete sucker for BMW's marketing?

I own a G35 coupe and regularly drive my friend's 330i ZHP - pretty much the best the 3-series has to offer. He gives me the same BMW marketing pitch about the ultimate driving machine, prestige, etc. When I was objectively driving both cars before I had decided to go with the G, the conclusion I came to was that there is no more of an overrated brand in the world. There are a lot of people out there parroting their marketing bs that have absolutely no idea what it means.

I will give the 330 its awesome ride/handling compromise, and the superior refinement of the I-6. But I decided on the G because frankly it was more fun to drive, and that for me trumped all the prestige and refinement in the world. I paid 40k for my G all said and done which is more than my friend paid for his 330 so price wasn't even a factor.

And my car that apparently says "pretty good bargain" has gotten more looks, thumbs-up, and comments from the opposite sex than my friend's BMW has ever had.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: Nebor
It's simple. One car is THE Ultimate Driving Machine (tm) and one is not. The entire basis of BMW has been, "put the driver in a cockpit, they're in charge."

The Nissan has been, "make a car that people will buy instead of a Honda."

A BMW says power, and prestige, "I made it, this is my car."

A japanese car says, "I compromised, but it's a pretty good bargain."

Oh, and for the record, German ponies are WAY stronger than Japanese ones.

Assuming you are serious, how does it feel to be a complete sucker for BMW's marketing?

I own a G35 coupe and regularly drive my friend's 330i ZHP - pretty much the best the 3-series has to offer. He gives me the same BMW marketing pitch about the ultimate driving machine, prestige, etc. When I was objectively driving both cars before I had decided to go with the G, the conclusion I came to was that there is no more of an overrated brand in the world. There are a lot of people out there parroting their marketing bs that have absolutely no idea what it means.

I will give the 330 its awesome ride/handling compromise, and the superior refinement of the I-6. But I decided on the G because frankly it was more fun to drive, and that for me trumped all the prestige and refinement in the world. I paid 40k for my G all said and done which is more than my friend paid for his 330 so price wasn't even a factor.

And my car that apparently says "pretty good bargain" has gotten more looks, thumbs-up, and comments from the opposite sex than my friend's BMW has ever had.

Sure if that's what you're looking for in a car then go for it. Quite frankly I don't care what the opposite sex has to say about my car as long as I enjoy the car. However, you thought the G was more fun so you still made the right decision. In my case the opposite sex factor would be absolutely zero in my consideration. I'd drive a Mini Cooper if handled like the old ones did.

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: Nebor
It's simple. One car is THE Ultimate Driving Machine (tm) and one is not. The entire basis of BMW has been, "put the driver in a cockpit, they're in charge."

The Nissan has been, "make a car that people will buy instead of a Honda."

A BMW says power, and prestige, "I made it, this is my car."

A japanese car says, "I compromised, but it's a pretty good bargain."

Oh, and for the record, German ponies are WAY stronger than Japanese ones.

Assuming you are serious, how does it feel to be a complete sucker for BMW's marketing?

I own a G35 coupe and regularly drive my friend's 330i ZHP - pretty much the best the 3-series has to offer. He gives me the same BMW marketing pitch about the ultimate driving machine, prestige, etc. When I was objectively driving both cars before I had decided to go with the G, the conclusion I came to was that there is no more of an overrated brand in the world. There are a lot of people out there parroting their marketing bs that have absolutely no idea what it means.

I will give the 330 its awesome ride/handling compromise, and the superior refinement of the I-6. But I decided on the G because frankly it was more fun to drive, and that for me trumped all the prestige and refinement in the world. I paid 40k for my G all said and done which is more than my friend paid for his 330 so price wasn't even a factor.

And my car that apparently says "pretty good bargain" has gotten more looks, thumbs-up, and comments from the opposite sex than my friend's BMW has ever had.

Sure if that's what you're looking for in a car then go for it. Quite frankly I don't care what the opposite sex has to say about my car as long as I enjoy the car. However, you thought the G was more fun so you still made the right decision. In my case the opposite sex factor would be absolutely zero in my consideration. I'd drive a Mini Cooper if handled like the old ones did.

The reaction to the car wasn't even a consideration in my decision - if impressing the opposite sex or showing off my status were, I would have taken the BMW. The only reason I brought it up was because a lot of the arguments for BMW are based on prestige and impressing women.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: Nebor

And it must suck being embarassed to go to a nice restaraunt, because then you have to hand the valet the keys to your Honda, to be parked next to a diamond like BMW.

Sorry, but a little BMW doesn't say "I made it". It says "look at me, I am trying hard to look like I made it".

True. Anybody who buys a G35 could buy a 325i instead. They don't, because they're more intested in getting car for their money instead of image. Funny thing is that for somebody like me that 325i will draw negative image, simply because I know that they bought it to be a poseur.