BMW 325I

[bozack]

I have to disagree with Skoorb on this one also,

I used to be like him in caring more for power/performance above all else, heck I still enjoy a car that has some raw power but for a daily driver your atttiude and desires change....

My brother has an older series 325is (1995) and even though it is almost a decade old with a few good miles on the clock, I still like the way it drives better than many modern cars, plus while maintenece for it is expensive, it isn't any more overall than my 2000 Ford Contour SVT...new BMW service is considerably more than his car, but from pricing compared with Audi, Lexus and MB it about on par if not slighly more than Audi or Lexus.

Personally I almost loathe any Infinity/Acura/Nissan....I feel the G35 is an ugly car especially in the rear...Same for the Acura TL and every nissan except the 350z which I think looks cheap but isn't as ugly as the two former....service for Nissan/Infinity/Acura is a little less and a little less often, don't let Skoorb con you into thinking any of these cars will be cheap to own as they are all expensive and they will all require service....I would gladly pay the extra 5k and deal with a little less performance of the bmw over the g35 to get a better looking car along with an interior that is just head and shoulders better...

The only thing I agree with is the A4 recommendation, great car, competitive pricing and excellent interior, the 3.0 model is exceptionally nice, however Audi is still notorious for frequent maintenece so keep that in mind....

If you have the cash, and you can negotiate a better deal than that, personally I would go for a CPO with under 50K on the clock I would pick the BMW in a heartbeat, unlike what Skoorb and his price/performance mindset implys you are paying for more than just a badge, BMWs have been and still are the benchmark by which all others are compared and many while nice in the price/performance area, like the g35 are lacking in refined details....

just my 2

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: hans007
BTW I do totally agree with you.


"i drive a BMW ness" is the chief reason to buy one. I knew a guy who right out of college with no job (Well he has a job now, but when he bought the thing didnt have one). LEASED a 325i completely stripped to the barest model for like $450 a month , a 2003 model when the 2004s were out too.
And guess what happened... well my friend and her 2 chick friends met him, and they were like WOW you drive a BMW. and basically were gushing with excitement. I guess thats what you pay for.


granted i am biased with my anti bmw car buying. My mom is buying an x5 basically solely for the purpose of having a bmw. she says the doors feel solid. etc. the usual subjective justifications of spending more for the logo. she has had a super reliable much cheaper rx300 for 5 years now, and well i told her to get an rx330, but yeah x5 3.0 for her. its just so "classy" as i am told. I was told about the free oil changes and brake pads , but that is barely a savings. g35s come with free brake pads now, and a synthetic oil oil change ever 15k miles on the 325i, probably is only saving you 3 oil changes or around $120 anyway.


Personally I am buying a g35 sedam in 6 months or so. So yeah i know the merits of all these cars. I'd put an acura TSX around where i'd place a bmw 325i. Similar powerplants, and interior space. I also thought about it, and considering the ridiculously high demand on the 325i (especially here in LA, its just disgusting). you get no discount off sticker on a current year model 325i. if you went super el cheapo and got a cloth g35 since most g35s sell for about $700 over invoice ($27.3k is the carsdirect.com price), you could actually get under the price of a base 325i (not to mention you'd still get standard, side and head airbags, a 6 disc changer, power seats,17" rims, and well a much better engine, and well assuming automatic tranny is a good thing, all cloth g35s have that , and you'd still be under the 325i).

I have to agree with your mother, I would take an X5 any day of the week over a Toyota 300 or a 330...it is just a nicer SUV both in the aesthetics dept and also the interior...

Also who in their right mind would want an all cloth luxo sedan?? that is insanity and just being cheap...heck if you are spending that much opt for the leather, I cannot believe they even offer an all cloth option.

 

[beatniks3]

After rereading this post it looks like we have different people looking at different angles as to what makes a car better than other. some people are talking about performance and driving nature while others are talking about best bang for buck. i agree though, for the average joe who doesn't want to do his own car stuff after the warrenty expires something other than a bimmer is for sure a better buy. go japanese. You are going to be charged $70-100 alone for an oil change at a bmw dealership when you can do it on your own for about $40, just the cost of the oil and oil filter. Inspection I costs ballpark 250-400 and Inspection II is around 450-600 depending on who you go to. DIY for around $200. There are tons of bimmer owners that save money this way. check out bimmerforums.com

someone posted about the bimmer only realing shinning over the G35, maxima and TL on a "tight race track." a tight race track is not necessary. just a good set of twisties. real world road conditions that make car control that much more important.

like bozack's brother, I have an older E36, a 1993 325iS with the sports package. It is no base model car, the 318 (now the 323) series wears that badge. I've added a performance chip, a CAI and a shift kit from an m3. It is a solid car that goes where i point it. I'm not going to try too hard to win anyone over but I honestly think that a curvy country road or two would change some of your minds...lol, I took my buddy who doesn't know much about cars out for an inspired country drive. the first corner we came up on, fast like i like it, he sorta clutched his seat belt and i think he was getting ready to go off the road. he was equally surprised when I powered out of the curve almost as fast as i went into it. at the end of the drive he seemed out of breathe and only said "wow you must really like driving." I like my E36.

oh well, i can always run back to bimmerforums. or run down to the garage and give hop in the car!

 

[stev0]

Originally posted by: Mill
No fvcking way man. 330 or don't get a BMW. Try a 3.0 Quattro, G35, or a similar car. BMW is great but the 325 is kind of blah. That being said you could get a 1.8t and get an APR chip and upgraded injectors and your car would be going great.

what mil said... 325i is the base bmw model

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: stev0

Originally posted by: Mill
No fvcking way man. 330 or don't get a BMW. Try a 3.0 Quattro, G35, or a similar car. BMW is great but the 325 is kind of blah. That being said you could get a 1.8t and get an APR chip and upgraded injectors and your car would be going great.

what mil said... 325i is the base bmw model

wrongo...323 is the base, and soon the 1 series will be the base....

also beat while I am not doubting your knowledge, I find it very hard to believe dealers by you are charging $70-100 for an oil change?...are they using synthetic?? if so then I could understand it as long as you know you can go 5-7K miles without needing another, but I don't remember my brother ever saying his oil changes cost nearly that much, more around $30.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: hans007

Originally posted by: Mill
I think the Maxima is a nice car and all, but it isn't the same type of feel/drive and quality as a BMW. Just my opinion.

i still agree with this. even though i hate the 325, its a rwd car, and the maxima has ridiculous torque steer and is a very large and heavier car.

Would it surprise you to know that a 2003 325i 4door sedan weighs all of 20lbs less than a 2003 Nissan Maxima? Because that's the only thing you give up for all that extra room is 20 lbs.

2003 Nissan Maxima curb weight: 3,239lbs
2003 BMW 325i Sedan curb weight: 3,219lbs

BTW-The 330i Sedan weighs 46lbs more than the Maxima and makes 30 less HP (all numbers from Edmunds.com).

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: hans007

Originally posted by: Mill
I think the Maxima is a nice car and all, but it isn't the same type of feel/drive and quality as a BMW. Just my opinion.

i still agree with this. even though i hate the 325, its a rwd car, and the maxima has ridiculous torque steer and is a very large and heavier car.

Would it surprise you to know that a 2003 325i 4door sedan weighs all of 20lbs less than a 2003 Nissan Maxima? Because that's the only thing you give up for all that extra room is 20 lbs.

2003 Nissan Maxima curb weight: 3,239lbs
2003 BMW 325i Sedan curb weight: 3,219lbs

BTW-The 330i Sedan weighs 46lbs more than the Maxima and makes 30 less HP (all numbers from Edmunds.com).

Since when did a piece of crap like the Maxima come into this discussion?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: bozack

wrongo...323 is the base, and soon the 1 series will be the base....

You're right about the 1-series, but not the 323. The 323 is no longer made, and in its day was the equivalent of today's 325i. The 318i was another car altogether, with a 1.8L 4-cylinder engine. The 323i and 325i both have inline 6s with approximately 2.5L of displacement.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: Mill
I think the Maxima is a nice car and all, but it isn't the same type of feel/drive and quality as a BMW. Just my opinion.

your obviously right.

but at the same time, the 325i isn't as good as its price suggests <but its still a quality car>.


A fully loaded G35 in Canada costs around $46k CDN. Now I just priced a BMW 325i with all the options (real leather interior <exlusive edition pakage>, nav, and sports package), and it came to $52k CDN. That's $6k more than a G35 with the same options and more power. I just used this to show that the BMW is not worth its price. It's definately better than a Maxima, but not at $52k (when a Maxima comes in at around $36k CDN).

And the base model 325i doesn't even come with electric seats!

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: bozack


I have to agree with your mother, I would take an X5 any day of the week over a Toyota 300 or a 330...it is just a nicer SUV both in the aesthetics dept and also the interior..

Also who in their right mind would want an all cloth luxo sedan?? that is insanity and just being cheap...heck if you are spending that much opt for the leather, I cannot believe they even offer an all cloth option.

i'd take a 540 wagon over an x5 any day, but of course they dropped the wagon because the wagon beat the x5 in every objective measure available.

the E39 is probably one of the best sedans made by anyone ever. the E36 was quite the kick butt car. but you have a tremendous hard on for a brand that was pretty crappy 20 years ago. almost as bad as the lexus fanboys. buy a real luxury car instead of a pretentious upstart. buy a mercedes.

and speaking of spending all that money without getting leather, don't BMWs come stock with vinyl?

 

[Asharus]

If people would just stop taking each other's word for it and just went to the dealership and test drive the cars for themselves, there would be a lot less BS in this thread. Do yourselves a favor and test drive BMW's "base" model against the competition, that is all. = )

BTW, here's an excellent movie if you're interested in how BMW manufactures their cars. Quite amazing, someone posted it up in my other forum (ClubSi).

The making of an E46

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: bozack
Since when did a piece of crap like the Maxima come into this discussion?

It was prudent, because it's a larger, cheaper, faster car than the 325why. No, it doesn't drive as well. Yes, I'd much rather have one new, because it will smack the 325why silly and leave me with enough money left over to do a serious overhaul on my home theater setup

And the base model 325i doesn't even come with electric seats!

Weak.

My hatred for the 325why is somewhat forced, although I do truly think that it's overpriced and grossly outbeaten by the TL and G35.

Now, when the 1 series comes out I will direct every ounce of hatred and animosity towards it. It will be the ultimate in poor man's luxury. Anybody driving that _vastly underpowered_ little piece of crap will in essence have a sticker on them that says "I'd rather pay all this money for this underpowered little piece of crap, than spend less money on a better car that doesn't have the BMW name brand."

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: Asharus
If people would just stop taking each other's word for it and just went to the dealership and test drive the cars for themselves, there would be a lot less BS in this thread. Do yourselves a favor and test drive BMW's "base" model against the competition, that is all. = )

BTW, here's an excellent movie if you're interested in how BMW manufactures their cars. Quite amazing, someone posted it up in my other forum (ClubSi).

The making of an E46

The whole point of threads like these is to debate over cars. We enjoy debating, and we enjoy ars, so why not put to two together?

Skoorb: Depending on the pricing of the 1-series, it just might be a very nice car. Everyone has been watching a small & lightweight RWD hatch, and this new 1-series offers that. It could be the enthusaist's ideal car.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: Asharus
If people would just stop taking each other's word for it and just went to the dealership and test drive the cars for themselves, there would be a lot less BS in this thread. Do yourselves a favor and test drive BMW's "base" model against the competition, that is all. = )

BTW, here's an excellent movie if you're interested in how BMW manufactures their cars. Quite amazing, someone posted it up in my other forum (ClubSi).

The making of an E46

The whole point of threads like these is to debate over cars. We enjoy debating, and we enjoy ars, so why not put to two together?

Skoorb: Depending on the pricing of the 1-series, it just might be a very nice car. Everyone has been watching a small & lightweight RWD hatch, and this new 1-series offers that. It could be the enthusaist's ideal car.

Maybe, but they'll probably give it 140 horsepower, a weight of 2900 lbs and charge $23k for it Surely if it can hang with the spec v, the protege speed, corolla TRD, etc. it will cost at least $5k more than them, and then find itself getting roasted by the wrxs of the world...

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: Asharus
If people would just stop taking each other's word for it and just went to the dealership and test drive the cars for themselves, there would be a lot less BS in this thread. Do yourselves a favor and test drive BMW's "base" model against the competition, that is all. = )

BTW, here's an excellent movie if you're interested in how BMW manufactures their cars. Quite amazing, someone posted it up in my other forum (ClubSi).

The making of an E46

The whole point of threads like these is to debate over cars. We enjoy debating, and we enjoy ars, so why not put to two together?

Skoorb: Depending on the pricing of the 1-series, it just might be a very nice car. Everyone has been watching a small & lightweight RWD hatch, and this new 1-series offers that. It could be the enthusaist's ideal car.

Maybe, but they'll probably give it 140 horsepower, a weight of 2900 lbs and charge $23k for it Surely if it can hang with the spec v, the protege speed, corolla TRD, etc. it will cost at least $5k more than them, and then find itself getting roasted by the wrxs of the world...

I think it'll be 180hp, 2500lbs, Mini-like handling and $23k USD.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: Asharus
If people would just stop taking each other's word for it and just went to the dealership and test drive the cars for themselves, there would be a lot less BS in this thread. Do yourselves a favor and test drive BMW's "base" model against the competition, that is all. = )

BTW, here's an excellent movie if you're interested in how BMW manufactures their cars. Quite amazing, someone posted it up in my other forum (ClubSi).

The making of an E46

The whole point of threads like these is to debate over cars. We enjoy debating, and we enjoy ars, so why not put to two together?

Skoorb: Depending on the pricing of the 1-series, it just might be a very nice car. Everyone has been watching a small & lightweight RWD hatch, and this new 1-series offers that. It could be the enthusaist's ideal car.

Maybe, but they'll probably give it 140 horsepower, a weight of 2900 lbs and charge $23k for it Surely if it can hang with the spec v, the protege speed, corolla TRD, etc. it will cost at least $5k more than them, and then find itself getting roasted by the wrxs of the world...

I think it'll be 180hp, 2500lbs, Mini-like handling and $23k USD.

I'd be surprised if they can fit that into a $23k package, but if they can it may actually be worth buying

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: Asharus
If people would just stop taking each other's word for it and just went to the dealership and test drive the cars for themselves, there would be a lot less BS in this thread. Do yourselves a favor and test drive BMW's "base" model against the competition, that is all. = )

BTW, here's an excellent movie if you're interested in how BMW manufactures their cars. Quite amazing, someone posted it up in my other forum (ClubSi).

The making of an E46

The whole point of threads like these is to debate over cars. We enjoy debating, and we enjoy ars, so why not put to two together?

Skoorb: Depending on the pricing of the 1-series, it just might be a very nice car. Everyone has been watching a small & lightweight RWD hatch, and this new 1-series offers that. It could be the enthusaist's ideal car.

Maybe, but they'll probably give it 140 horsepower, a weight of 2900 lbs and charge $23k for it Surely if it can hang with the spec v, the protege speed, corolla TRD, etc. it will cost at least $5k more than them, and then find itself getting roasted by the wrxs of the world...

I think it'll be 180hp, 2500lbs, Mini-like handling and $23k USD.

I'd be surprised if they can fit that into a $23k package, but if they can it may actually be worth buying

Well you can find that in the Mazdaspeed Miata, but I doubt thats $23k. And its not a hatchback unfortunately.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Since when did a piece of crap like the Maxima come into this discussion?

I brought it into the discussion because this is the car that replaced an aging BMW for my family. BMW=small expensive car, Maxima=large car with more bang for the buck. That's why I'm discussing it. It's certainly not a piece of crap either. You could keep that expression to describe American sedans or Korean sedans but not a decent car like the Maxima.

 

[Xenon14]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

wow why r u so anti BMW?

nissan fanboyism showing??

Well, I like the M3 and M5, and I'm sure the 330 is a nice car too, and I like the 7 series, etc. etc. I just think that the 325i is the poor man's BMW. It's for the guy who doesn't care that he just paid a crap load of money for an underpowered car, because it's a BMW, and that's all that matters to him. As mentioned by others here, they are VERY expensive for what you get. It just strikes me that if you're not looking to spend more than the 325i price range, there are several other cars quite significantly superior to it, such as the G35, Acura TL, A4.

Exactly.

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: Asharus
If people would just stop taking each other's word for it and just went to the dealership and test drive the cars for themselves, there would be a lot less BS in this thread. Do yourselves a favor and test drive BMW's "base" model against the competition, that is all. = )

BTW, here's an excellent movie if you're interested in how BMW manufactures their cars. Quite amazing, someone posted it up in my other forum (ClubSi).

The making of an E46

The whole point of threads like these is to debate over cars. We enjoy debating, and we enjoy ars, so why not put to two together?

Skoorb: Depending on the pricing of the 1-series, it just might be a very nice car. Everyone has been watching a small & lightweight RWD hatch, and this new 1-series offers that. It could be the enthusaist's ideal car.

Maybe, but they'll probably give it 140 horsepower, a weight of 2900 lbs and charge $23k for it Surely if it can hang with the spec v, the protege speed, corolla TRD, etc. it will cost at least $5k more than them, and then find itself getting roasted by the wrxs of the world...

yeah itll probably be the ultimate badge bmw car. oh wait that was the 318t. I am glad they killed that thing, it was like a 323 but even worse.


while i am at it, i will throw a stone at the mercedes c230 sport coupe. maybe the entire c class under the 320.

its basically the same thing as the 3 series cars. though the c230 has got to have cheap written all over it. it has cloth seats. and they have this checkered golf pants looking pattern on them. thats even worse than the vinyl.

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: hans007
BTW I do totally agree with you.


"i drive a BMW ness" is the chief reason to buy one. I knew a guy who right out of college with no job (Well he has a job now, but when he bought the thing didnt have one). LEASED a 325i completely stripped to the barest model for like $450 a month , a 2003 model when the 2004s were out too.
And guess what happened... well my friend and her 2 chick friends met him, and they were like WOW you drive a BMW. and basically were gushing with excitement. I guess thats what you pay for.


granted i am biased with my anti bmw car buying. My mom is buying an x5 basically solely for the purpose of having a bmw. she says the doors feel solid. etc. the usual subjective justifications of spending more for the logo. she has had a super reliable much cheaper rx300 for 5 years now, and well i told her to get an rx330, but yeah x5 3.0 for her. its just so "classy" as i am told. I was told about the free oil changes and brake pads , but that is barely a savings. g35s come with free brake pads now, and a synthetic oil oil change ever 15k miles on the 325i, probably is only saving you 3 oil changes or around $120 anyway.


Personally I am buying a g35 sedam in 6 months or so. So yeah i know the merits of all these cars. I'd put an acura TSX around where i'd place a bmw 325i. Similar powerplants, and interior space. I also thought about it, and considering the ridiculously high demand on the 325i (especially here in LA, its just disgusting). you get no discount off sticker on a current year model 325i. if you went super el cheapo and got a cloth g35 since most g35s sell for about $700 over invoice ($27.3k is the carsdirect.com price), you could actually get under the price of a base 325i (not to mention you'd still get standard, side and head airbags, a 6 disc changer, power seats,17" rims, and well a much better engine, and well assuming automatic tranny is a good thing, all cloth g35s have that , and you'd still be under the 325i).

I have to agree with your mother, I would take an X5 any day of the week over a Toyota 300 or a 330...it is just a nicer SUV both in the aesthetics dept and also the interior...

Also who in their right mind would want an all cloth luxo sedan?? that is insanity and just being cheap...heck if you are spending that much opt for the leather, I cannot believe they even offer an all cloth option.

yes i know an x5 is better than an rx330, it also costs a ridiculous amount more something like 12 thousand dollars similarly equipped. i told her to buy a sedan actually since she doesnt need an suv. i suggested 530i. but SUVs are safer and blah blah blah , which is the usual suv junk , a totally different argument there.

yes they offer the g35 in cloth. at the price it costs about the same as a not even fully loaded camry. besides 3s and 5s come with pleather in their base configs (Well you automatically get leather in the 545 , but even the 530i base has vinyl faux leather crap).

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

I think it'll be 180hp, 2500lbs, Mini-like handling and $23k USD.

I can find little meaningful about the 1 series except that it will have a couple of scantily clad engine options, and a surely very expensive high power engine.

Linke Is there any real info on a NorthA model?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: hans007


yes i know an x5 is better than an rx330, it also costs a ridiculous amount more something like 12 thousand dollars similarly equipped. i told her to buy a sedan actually since she doesnt need an suv. i suggested 530i. but SUVs are safer and blah blah blah , which is the usual suv junk , a totally different argument there.

yes they offer the g35 in cloth. at the price it costs about the same as a not even fully loaded camry. besides 3s and 5s come with pleather in their base configs (Well you automatically get leather in the 545 , but even the 530i base has vinyl faux leather crap).

I actually don't mind the vinyl interiors in low-level BMWs and Mercs. It is really thick, high-quality vinyl, and it looks and feels nicer than the leather in a lot of Japanese cars. I actually like the leather in my Maxima, but the leather in my prior cars (a '98 Accord EX V-6 and a '99 Integra GS-R sedan) was really nasty and stiff, and significantly poorer than BMW's vinyl.

 

[maziwanka]

i agree with krunchykrome about the g35

 

[bozack]

Wow looks like I got a few reposnses here.....

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

I brought it into the discussion because this is the car that replaced an aging BMW for my family. BMW=small expensive car, Maxima=large car with more bang for the buck. That's why I'm discussing it. It's certainly not a piece of crap either. You could keep that expression to describe American sedans or Korean sedans but not a decent car like the Maxima.

Maxima = Crap plain and simple.

Originally posted by: ElFenix

i'd take a 540 wagon over an x5 any day, but of course they dropped the wagon because the wagon beat the x5 in every objective measure available.

the E39 is probably one of the best sedans made by anyone ever. the E36 was quite the kick butt car. but you have a tremendous hard on for a brand that was pretty crappy 20 years ago. almost as bad as the lexus fanboys. buy a real luxury car instead of a pretentious upstart. buy a mercedes.

and speaking of spending all that money without getting leather, don't BMWs come stock with vinyl?

I would even go so far as to say I would take a 3 series wagon over an X5 anyday, however that is only because I have a personal aversion to any SUV...fact is they dropped the wagon because it wasn't selling/wasn't profitable when compared to the X5 due to the SUV craze....if I had to choose an SUV then the X5 would be my only luxury choice.

I also agree with merc, but their lower budget models are nothing to write home about...

With re. cloth/leather...my point was what kind of buyer would opt for cloth, no matter what the savings when looking at this type of car? IMHO only a cheapass or someone who shouldn't be looking at buying in this class in the first place..same goes for pleather/vinyl....sorry but buying a luxury sports sedan and then pincing pennies for the interior or other "options" that one should consider standard equip is just a waste, your resale will suffer for it and you will be settling for a sub standard variation.

Originally posted by: Skoorb

it was prudent, because it's a larger, cheaper, faster car than the 325why. No, it doesn't drive as well. Yes, I'd much rather have one new, because it will smack the 325why silly and leave me with enough money left over to do a serious overhaul on my home theater setup

C-mon Skoorb, get real, this guy is looking at buying a 34K luxo sports sedan, since when does prudency come into the picture? I am sure if he was looking for "best cheapass bang for the buck" car then your recommendation of a Maxima would be more than welcomed even though it is japanese garbage, you even admit the Maxima doesn't drive as well as a BMW, the interior is trash, the exterior is equally as fugly, sure the power plant is ok but that to me does not make up for a total package that is totally lacking. And who cares about money left over for your home theatre, for all you know this guy has that already and doesn't care.....I really hate it when people assume that bang for the buck is the "only" criteria for buying anything...should it be a factor?? sure...but there are others which are equally important.