BMW M3 and Infiniti G35 Coupe; M3 Worth Price Premium?

[KokomoGST]

Originally posted by: SilentZero
E46 M3's are not meant to drive in a straight line on a 1/4 mile track! Sure a EVO-8 or STi with 3k in modifications, or even a hooked up S4 will beat it in the 1/4 mile, but on a big track or autobahn...none of them have a chance.

Actually, with a good driver on a racetrack... the US Spec Evo8 bumped up to 300hp (thats 20hp more than stock and easily done with $3k) will destroy... DESTROY an E46 M3. The EVO8 outbrakes M3, outaccelerates, outcorners... flat out beats the M3 at it's own game. The UKspec Evo8 FQ300 beat the E46 M3 by over 2 and a half seconds on a 100second circuit. That's a friggin eternity in track time... even the STi bested the M3 by a full second and everyone agrees that the Evo is flat out better on a track.

I'm sorry, but you're plain wrong. Anything short of a ZO6 or a Viper can't keep up with an Evo on a track... it outbrakes Porsches, BMWs, Mercs, Audis... only the Viper with it's INSANE brakes bested it on Motor Trend's Supercar test. The Evo and STi were built as supercar slayers... that's exactly what they are... at least in the performance category.

 

[Maximin]

G35 and invest your 20K.
You'll be driving a M5 sooner.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: KokomoGST

Originally posted by: SilentZero
E46 M3's are not meant to drive in a straight line on a 1/4 mile track! Sure a EVO-8 or STi with 3k in modifications, or even a hooked up S4 will beat it in the 1/4 mile, but on a big track or autobahn...none of them have a chance.

Actually, with a good driver on a racetrack... the US Spec Evo8 bumped up to 300hp (thats 20hp more than stock and easily done with $3k) will destroy... DESTROY an E46 M3. The EVO8 outbrakes M3, outaccelerates, outcorners... flat out beats the M3 at it's own game. The UKspec Evo8 FQ300 beat the E46 M3 by over 2 and a half seconds on a 100second circuit. That's a friggin eternity in track time... even the STi bested the M3 by a full second and everyone agrees that the Evo is flat out better on a track.

I'm sorry, but you're plain wrong. Anything short of a ZO6 or a Viper can't keep up with an Evo on a track... it outbrakes Porsches, BMWs, Mercs, Audis... only the Viper with it's INSANE brakes bested it on Motor Trend's Supercar test. The Evo and STi were built as supercar slayers... that's exactly what they are... at least in the performance category.

And we all know that Mitsubishi > McLaren & Ferrari. Do you even know what a supercar is? Because you didn't list one.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: KokomoGST

Originally posted by: SilentZero
E46 M3's are not meant to drive in a straight line on a 1/4 mile track! Sure a EVO-8 or STi with 3k in modifications, or even a hooked up S4 will beat it in the 1/4 mile, but on a big track or autobahn...none of them have a chance.

Actually, with a good driver on a racetrack... the US Spec Evo8 bumped up to 300hp (thats 20hp more than stock and easily done with $3k) will destroy... DESTROY an E46 M3. The EVO8 outbrakes M3, outaccelerates, outcorners... flat out beats the M3 at it's own game. The UKspec Evo8 FQ300 beat the E46 M3 by over 2 and a half seconds on a 100second circuit. That's a friggin eternity in track time... even the STi bested the M3 by a full second and everyone agrees that the Evo is flat out better on a track.

I'm sorry, but you're plain wrong. Anything short of a ZO6 or a Viper can't keep up with an Evo on a track... it outbrakes Porsches, BMWs, Mercs, Audis... only the Viper with it's INSANE brakes bested it on Motor Trend's Supercar test. The Evo and STi were built as supercar slayers... that's exactly what they are... at least in the performance category.

Outbrakes a Porsche? EH!?

 

[0roo0roo]

m3 looks generic for a bmw. its as if toyota made a supra that looked like a camry. when your paying 30k+ for a vehicle your not doing it for practical reasons g35 all the way!

 

[Atlechnik]

I would go with the 04 S$, 350+hp, four door sleeper. (its a beast). However if you are looking for speed and class I would go with the M3. It performance that can compete with the anything on the road and it has the class that others are aware of. G35 its nice 280hp, but I would take the M3 over it. Better performance more perstige and its a BMW. But if class doesn't really matter to you, go with the S4 super quick and fits 5 people, always a plus.

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: KokomoGST

Originally posted by: SilentZero
E46 M3's are not meant to drive in a straight line on a 1/4 mile track! Sure a EVO-8 or STi with 3k in modifications, or even a hooked up S4 will beat it in the 1/4 mile, but on a big track or autobahn...none of them have a chance.

Actually, with a good driver on a racetrack... the US Spec Evo8 bumped up to 300hp (thats 20hp more than stock and easily done with $3k) will destroy... DESTROY an E46 M3. The EVO8 outbrakes M3, outaccelerates, outcorners... flat out beats the M3 at it's own game. The UKspec Evo8 FQ300 beat the E46 M3 by over 2 and a half seconds on a 100second circuit. That's a friggin eternity in track time... even the STi bested the M3 by a full second and everyone agrees that the Evo is flat out better on a track.

I'm sorry, but you're plain wrong. Anything short of a ZO6 or a Viper can't keep up with an Evo on a track... it outbrakes Porsches, BMWs, Mercs, Audis... only the Viper with it's INSANE brakes bested it on Motor Trend's Supercar test. The Evo and STi were built as supercar slayers... that's exactly what they are... at least in the performance category.

Outbrakes a Porsche? EH!?

It does. One of the car mags (R&T maybe?) got the best braking distance they had ever measured on any car with the Evo. The record was shattered the very next month by the Ferrari Enzo though.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: KokomoGST

Originally posted by: SilentZero
E46 M3's are not meant to drive in a straight line on a 1/4 mile track! Sure a EVO-8 or STi with 3k in modifications, or even a hooked up S4 will beat it in the 1/4 mile, but on a big track or autobahn...none of them have a chance.

Actually, with a good driver on a racetrack... the US Spec Evo8 bumped up to 300hp (thats 20hp more than stock and easily done with $3k) will destroy... DESTROY an E46 M3. The EVO8 outbrakes M3, outaccelerates, outcorners... flat out beats the M3 at it's own game. The UKspec Evo8 FQ300 beat the E46 M3 by over 2 and a half seconds on a 100second circuit. That's a friggin eternity in track time... even the STi bested the M3 by a full second and everyone agrees that the Evo is flat out better on a track.

I'm sorry, but you're plain wrong. Anything short of a ZO6 or a Viper can't keep up with an Evo on a track... it outbrakes Porsches, BMWs, Mercs, Audis... only the Viper with it's INSANE brakes bested it on Motor Trend's Supercar test. The Evo and STi were built as supercar slayers... that's exactly what they are... at least in the performance category.

Too bad the Evo is ugly as hell and econobox based! How well does it cruise?

 

[bbrontosaurus]

Originally posted by: Triumph
If I made 75K a year, I'd buy the G35 Coupe.

If I made 100K a year, I'd buy the M3.

Actually, if I made those numbers, I'd realistically buy 5 or 6 different awesome used cars for the same price. An E36 M3, a Crown Victoria Police Interceptor, an A2 VW GTI 16 valve, a bike of some sort, and a V6 Tacoma with a solid front axle swap and some big mudders. And some change to boot.

Interesting....why a Crown Vic Police Interceptor? To scare other drivers on the road?

 

[SithSolo1]

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: KokomoGST

Originally posted by: SilentZero
E46 M3's are not meant to drive in a straight line on a 1/4 mile track! Sure a EVO-8 or STi with 3k in modifications, or even a hooked up S4 will beat it in the 1/4 mile, but on a big track or autobahn...none of them have a chance.

Actually, with a good driver on a racetrack... the US Spec Evo8 bumped up to 300hp (thats 20hp more than stock and easily done with $3k) will destroy... DESTROY an E46 M3. The EVO8 outbrakes M3, outaccelerates, outcorners... flat out beats the M3 at it's own game. The UKspec Evo8 FQ300 beat the E46 M3 by over 2 and a half seconds on a 100second circuit. That's a friggin eternity in track time... even the STi bested the M3 by a full second and everyone agrees that the Evo is flat out better on a track.

I'm sorry, but you're plain wrong. Anything short of a ZO6 or a Viper can't keep up with an Evo on a track... it outbrakes Porsches, BMWs, Mercs, Audis... only the Viper with it's INSANE brakes bested it on Motor Trend's Supercar test. The Evo and STi were built as supercar slayers... that's exactly what they are... at least in the performance category.

Outbrakes a Porsche? EH!?

It does. One of the car mags (R&T maybe?) got the best braking distance they had ever measured on any car with the Evo. The record was shattered the very next month by the Ferrari Enzo though.

I find it funny that it takes a $650K car to shatter a record set by a $38K car. My numbers may be a lil off but you get the point.

 

[StageLeft]

No, and the reason is fairly clear - because the more money you spend on a car, or almost anything in life, the less you get for it. You can buy a kia for $10k. A $20k car is nicer, but the kia still drives and gets you around, which is the main purpose of the $20k car.

You can buy porsche 911 turbo for a little over $100k. You can spend twice that on a ferriar which, while better, isn't twice as good. Or, you can spend a million on a mclaren F1 or new bugatti super car, and none of those are 8X as good as the porsche.

Throw $10k onto a kia in mods and it's going to be a lot faster. Throw $10k in mods onto a viper and your performance gains will be a much smaller percentage.

This is all from a bang for buck point of view. Obviously the M3 is much nicer, and if I had the cash it would be a worthy car for $50k.

 

[KokomoGST]

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: KokomoGST

Originally posted by: SilentZero
E46 M3's are not meant to drive in a straight line on a 1/4 mile track! Sure a EVO-8 or STi with 3k in modifications, or even a hooked up S4 will beat it in the 1/4 mile, but on a big track or autobahn...none of them have a chance.

Actually, with a good driver on a racetrack... (snip)

Too bad the Evo is ugly as hell and econobox based! How well does it cruise?

Well, that wasn't the original point... it was, if you want maximum driving performance... you wouldn't be looking at the M3 in that price range. Heck, even the V8 S4 is around a full second faster around that same track.

I find it funny that it takes a $650K car to shatter a record set by a $38K car. My numbers may be a lil off but you get the point.

That is the whole point... btw, Ferraris (other than the Enzo) tend to get their @$$es kicked by good ol' Detroit... Vipers and Vettes are way cheaper in comparison and yet do more than just keep up. Let's put it this way... anything short of a Pagani Zonda S (even Porsche 911 TTs, Modenas, Maranellos, Murceilagos, etc) turned a slower laptime on TopGear's Lotus test track. It takes at least 300K+ to beat a $38k car around a test track? And even $250k isn't enough? And consider that as fast as the Evo is... in SCCA Solo2, ZO6s are even faster on dry pavement.

EDIT: Skoorb makes a good point... and given the choice between the M3 and G35, I'd take the M just because it is faster. But if it was a choice in that range of price. The S4 would be my instant choice for a combo of performance and liveable luxury.

 

[maziwanka]

im a performance freak so i would go for the vette z06 which can now be had for around 45k. the m3 is a beautiful car and i would consider that next along with the new s4 (but probably choose the bimmer over the s4). if im thinking about cars around 50k i wouldnt consider the g35.

oooh, i forgot about the cadillac cts-v. i would also definately consider that! american all the way....

 

[FacelessNobody]

For flood

You're completely right about the E30 vs E36. My lucky ass gets to compare the two on a regular basis. Racing E30s is all about carrying speed, you can't depend on torque to bail you out like you can in an E36. And the E30 M3 is absolutely barbaric. The suspension is awfully stiff, even the tightest E30 M3s still rattle a bit when you drive em, and the damn shifter requires a good deal of positive force to engage a gear. It seems like you and the car beat each other up a bit, but you come out better for it. I'll be a stickler and make a quick correction for whoever had the specifications (I think it was you), most E30 M3s have 2.3L 200hp S14 motors, only some of the M3 Evolution (there were three or four different evos) models had 2.5L motors, and I believe those made 220hp. For whoever else asked, the 1997-2001 E36 makes 240hp here and 321hp in Europe.

For everybody else

This is a good, debatable topic apparently. The only answer I guess I could give myself would be to drive both cars and let my heart tell me if the premium is worth it. That's why I don't care for Audi. They're great on paper, and usually good looking, but ultimately soulless. VW/Audi always reminded me of Toyota/Lexus: makers of perfect, robotic appliance cars, many of which go fast. Audi's current A8 is the closest to a personality, in my opinion.

 

[flood]

Originally posted by: FacelessNobody
For flood

You're completely right about the E30 vs E36. My lucky ass gets to compare the two on a regular basis. Racing E30s is all about carrying speed, you can't depend on torque to bail you out like you can in an E36. And the E30 M3 is absolutely barbaric. The suspension is awfully stiff, even the tightest E30 M3s still rattle a bit when you drive em, and the damn shifter requires a good deal of positive force to engage a gear. It seems like you and the car beat each other up a bit, but you come out better for it. I'll be a stickler and make a quick correction for whoever had the specifications (I think it was you), most E30 M3s have 2.3L 200hp S14 motors, only some of the M3 Evolution (there were three or four different evos) models had 2.5L motors, and I believe those made 220hp. For whoever else asked, the 1997-2001 E36 makes 240hp here and 321hp in Europe.

For everybody else

This is a good, debatable topic apparently. The only answer I guess I could give myself would be to drive both cars and let my heart tell me if the premium is worth it. That's why I don't care for Audi. They're great on paper, and usually good looking, but ultimately soulless. VW/Audi always reminded me of Toyota/Lexus: makers of perfect, robotic appliance cars, many of which go fast. Audi's current A8 is the closest to a personality, in my opinion.

It is the E30 M3 EvoIII that has the 2.5L 240hp motor :heart:
I feel the same way about Audi. It is the same impression I got from the G35. It's a car that looks good and goes fast, but 'ultimately soulless,' as you put it so well. :brokenheart:

As for my shifter, it does show its wear over the years. I've rebuilt my shift linkage and its nice and tight now.. Goes into gear like it should and there is very little play.

Skoorb makes a good point. My E30 cost me $2k, and I'm going to drive it until it falls apart. There are very few cars, if any, that would be worth the extra money - even the e46 M3. I've beaten a handful of them at autocross, and I highly doubt that the driving experience would be $48k better.

Being almost 17 years old, it does have its bugs, but it has held up incredibly well. 190k mi on the clock, and I drive it hard every day, but I do take good care of it (warming it up and whatnot). Over the last 7k mi (I've only had it 4 months), all I've had to do to it is put gas in it and change the oil. :beer:

I enjoy the E30 so much that I'm selling my 735