Bodybuilder Chow: 10 lbs. of whey protein @ $45 delivered

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tunger

Junior Member
Nov 6, 1999
11
0
0
Yo cremefilled do you take ECA stacks? If so what did you think of your results?
 

cremefilled

Golden Member
Mar 25, 2000
1,446
0
0
See about 20 posts above for the brands of E & C that I take. See also the book I referenced for SuperRob. It sites studies that show an increase in thermogenesis (calorie consumption) of about 150-200 cal/day for an EC or ECA stack 3X/day (the aspirin is pretty worthless, IMO, and according to the scientific literature; might be good to take one aspirin/day for your heart, though...). I think that's about right. That might not sound like much--but over a year, that's 12-16 pounds of fat.

People who get greater weight loss with ECA probably get it from the appetite supressant effect. I also find that ECA "pumps me up" (gives me energy and enthusiasm) for exercise. I must say, I quite enjoy taking it!

As far as weight loss goes, the research on guggulipid is even more impressive, showing one extra pound of weight loss per week, over 12 weeks, versus placebo. And that's for people who _weren't_ trying to diet. (Again, I'm referencing the Larry Hobbs book.)

I really recommend that you call the number I listed and order "The New Diet Pills" and also the booklet specifically on ECA. They would be less than $20 together--and would turn you into an informed consumer. Once again, it's (800)454-1974, and no, I'm not affiliated in any way, just a fan of those 2 books.
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,757
12
81
For what its worth, I've found Glucosamine to be a very effective supplement. No more day-after soreness, no more shoulder problems. That was the big one for me, my left shoulder at the bicep attachment would give me problems, swelling, etc about once a week. No more. Glucosamine helps a lot with joints and fibrous tissue in general. Walmart sells a 1 gram pill made by Schiff, $11 for 60, $18 for 120. I've found that brand to be most effective, most likely because its a combination of 3 forms (most are only 2), plus, it IS one of the cheapest. Again, if anyone cares, this stuff will help
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,757
12
81
Just reading through everyone talking about the EAC stuff. I took that for a while and was advised by my doctor to stay off of it. I dont know if anyone else has run it by their physician, but I decided to (he's very into fitness) and strongly cautioned me against it. To give you some background on me, I'm in very good shape, but was told even then, it isnt all that good for your heart. I dont know much else, since that was enough for me. I might research it later, but thought I'd share what I was told. Your mileage may vary.
 

iluvdeal

Golden Member
Nov 22, 1999
1,975
0
76
If you use it correctly, it is safe. It's sold under many different name: Ripped Fuel, Metabolife, Thermadrene, Xenadrine, etc. Many people are using it safely and correctly.

BTW, many people have died during exercise due to heart failure so your doctor may advice you to avoid exerise also.
 

cremefilled

Golden Member
Mar 25, 2000
1,446
0
0
Nicely stated, iluvdeal!

sjwaste: It's a good sign that your physician is into physical fitness (most simply aren't, or just make blanket recommendations like "try to walk 3 or 4 times a week&quot. Get the ECA booklet--the title is "Ephedrine & Caffeine--The Ideal Diet Pill?"--from the phone number I list above, which has a comprehensive review of the _scientific_ literature, both pro & con. I forgot that the ECA booklet is co-authored by an MD. Buy a copy for your doctor while you're at it.

That said, ephedrine is a controversial supplement, but if taken in the recommended doses, it is quite, quite safe. (Unlike "flavor of the month" drugs like Redux, or Fen-Phen, it has a safety profile that goes back _millenia_!) It's not for everyone, but make up your own mind, and open your mind to the idea that doctors don't know everything. Keep that last statement in balance: good doctors know a lot, and doctors are an essential part of everyone's life. But doctors have zero training in nutrition, and almost less than zero training in herbs (I say "less than zero" because they depend upon drug company literature and the PDR for a lot/most of their information--and there's no way in hell that the maker of Redux is going to recommend Ephedrine...or that the makers of Alzheimer's drugs are going to recommend Gingko Biloba...or that the makers of Prozac are going to recommend St.Johns Wort or 5-HTP...and etc.).

You've also got to be wary of the supplement manufacturers. This is especially true in the bodybuilding field, as all of the major magazines are run by supplement companies, so there is a 100% conflict of interest. (As a sidenote, I can recommend www.testosterone.net as being the closest thing to being an unbiased magazine--even though they do hype their own products.)

To help sort things out, tuning in to Usenet discussions to get general impressions (use www.deja.com for searches) is a great way to go. You'll run into people like me who have a general interest in fitness and some real-world experience and hopefully some basic intelligence; you'll also run the gamut from idiots, and PhD-level geniuses (like Patrick Arnold and Bill Roberts on the misc.fitness.weights forum) who are creating the next-generation supplements in their laboratories. I think that any intelligent person can figure out which are the idiots, and which are the geniuses.

Here's an example: HMB just doesn't work. You can read all of the advertising copy you want, and be impressed by the EAS and MetRX logos popping up everywere, but it just doesn't work in the real world. If you are a fitness newbie, the best way to discover that is on Usenet (but _certainly_ not by asking anyone who sells the stuff).

Otoh, you'll find that ECA has a very favorable reputation, although it's not known as a "miracle worker" supplement--just something that is effective if you have the right expectations. And if you have an inquiring mind, there is a lot of scientific literature backing it up.

If you think your MD is going to spend time sorting through Usenet to figure out which supplements work, dream on. It's up to _you_.

Many MDs are wary of even a multivitamin like Centrum. In fact, my personal physician is. So, I use him to treat ailments for which he is qualified, and I run the rest of my life by making the best choices I can. [Soapbox mode: OFF]

P.S.--The research behind Glucosamine is solid, as is the real-world "rep," and I've read and can recommend the book by Ray Sahelian. I'm probably too young to need it yet (either that, or I just don't lift enough weight ). I think that Sams Club has a slightly better price than the one you cite, and Beyond a Century (ref. at top of thread) has "straight" (untableted) Glucosamine powder @ 250g=$11.25. Many people combine Glucosamine with Chondroitin Sulfate.
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,757
12
81
cremefilled: I'm completely with what you're saying. I havent done my homework on EAC so I AM laying off of it until I do. I have no solid proof of good or bad with it yet, but I figured I'd stay away till I did some reading for myself. On the subject of proper dosage, thats something I havent found conclusive yet. Thermadrine is what I was using, which came out to about 24mg standardized ephedrine if I recall. I took no more than two a day, 3 times a week. It helped my endurance, but I didnt monitor any weight loss from it (I have ~9% body fat, I dont really see it as a point of concern ) But yeah, I'm 100% with you on getting the facts, I'm not saying my doc knows all, but I took his advice temporarily until I could find things out on my own. I will take your advice and read the recommended literature.

As for glucosamine, I think I do benefit from it (for the pre-stated reasons) and probably because I dont eat enough plants in my diet (vegetables, fruit, etc). I consciously filled my nutrition hole in that area about a year ago and results were a bit better from it. However, I did have a problem with too much glucosamine so I had to cut back the dosage. Side effect is dark urine in case anyone's wondering
 

cremefilled

Golden Member
Mar 25, 2000
1,446
0
0
sjwaste:

A little known (and rather weird) fact about ephedrine is that a lower dose can actually be more effective. I'm looking at the results of a study right now that show that 10mg of ephedrine is actually more thermogenic than 20mg or 40mg. Another study shows that 20mg is more thermogenic than 40mg when on a high calorie diet. So taking one of the commercial products (like Ripped Fuel) that requires 2 or 3 caps for a full dose, and just taking one at a time (perhaps more than 3X/day?), might be optimal.

I'd certainly say that 10mg of ephedrine should cause no healthy adults any problems whatsoever. The effects of so small a dose would probably be barely subjectively noticeable. I personally take 25mg 3X/day with 200mg of caffeine, and have done so for several years off and on. (If anyone's wondering, the ephedrine part isn't addictive--but the caffeine is to the same extent that coffee is. Plan on cycling off of caffeine over several weeks. Ask any coffee drinker about going cold turkey...)

For anyone following this thread who is wanting to try ephedrine, or the whole ECA stack, I should add that it shouldn't be taken by anyone with high blood pressure or who has been taking a type-MAO antidepressant. And don't take more than 25mg at a time in any case. Ephedrine can also exacerbate a tendency to insomnia, and as it is a beta-agonist, it may have a slight risk of (temporary) exacerbation of BPH--aka benign prostatic hypertrophy, aka enlarged prostate.
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,757
12
81
creme:

Yeah, I read the same thing the other day, in fact. Interesting, I might go back and try that. 10mg isnt even noticeable, as I have taken that type of dose before. The trouble is finding an EAC with that little ephedrine in it. Is pseudoephedrine sold by itself? I know pure ephedrine is controlled now.

EAC's a funny thing, though. I know some people who got the insomnia effect. Me? Thermadrine will wire me for like an hour, then I just wanna take a nap. Was great for a late night workout, but not early morning before school or work

I think I've been inspired to read some more on the supplements I take, which are few now. Besides my vitamins and minerals (cant get enough calcium for muscle function) and glucosamine, the only other I take is ornithine and arginine amino powder. Might go back to light EAC soon.
 

SuperRob

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
1,236
0
0
My $0.02 ...

I've been taking Xenadrine, my ECA stack of choice for a while now. I did notice that in the first month, I was a bit jittery and sleepless. That tapered down into the second and third months. I'm off-cycle now, to give my body a chance to recouperate and eliminate the chance of my body "getting used" to the ECA stack. In that three months, I'd say I lost 30 lbs. of fat. That's an estimate, because I didn't weight myself. However, with moderate exercise, I lost about 5 inches across my middle, and 3 around my waist.

It's not a lot, but I must say that I felt great! And still do, for that matter.

I'm trying Syntrax' Guggulbolic right now, and have noticed no side effects. (Except that my allergies seem more active, but it may be the excellent weather in the PNW.) However, I also do not feel as energized as with the ECA.

My experiment is to do 3 months on ECA, 3 months guggul, back and forth and see how my body handles it. It's too early to make a judgement on guggul yet, but I wholeheartedly endorse Xenadrine. I can fit into pants I haven't worn in a year!

PS: FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS! Don't be stupid, figuring if two is good, four must be twice as good. Plus, it says don't take it for more than 12 weeks. That's so you don't get used to it, and decide you need to increase your dosage. THAT's how people DIE using Ephedra/Ephedrine.
 

cremefilled

Golden Member
Mar 25, 2000
1,446
0
0
I don't think that ephedrine has been outlawed. It is getting hard, though, to find straight ephedrine. For those who don't know, ephedrine is reportedly easy to convert to amphetamine, so it is now usually found with an added ingredient, Guaifeniesin, which is an OTC decongestant. I guess this fouls up the amphetamine conversion, "denaturing" it, so to speak.

Anyway, here's a low-priced source for ephedrine:
http://www.betterbodz.com/store_products/kaizen_ephedrinehcl.html
You could cut those tabs in two. You can probably find other sources with any Web search engine. I think Primatene (available at your local grocery store) still has ephedrine as the active ingredient--although I believe it uses ephedrine sulfate, which is supposed to differ only in being a little quicker acting than ephedrine HCL.

The herbal ephedra, which is usually standardized to a certain level of ephedrine as the active ingredient, is much easier to find--including my post wayyyy above about B-A-C.

Btw, I agree about the curious sleepiness that ephedrine can cause after 1-2 hours.

P.S.--the last time this thread ran, some people extolled the EAS Myoplex shakes. Follow the ephedrine url above for a good price: 42 packs @ $55.00 (and free shipping for >$200).
 

MitzEclipse

Senior member
Nov 15, 1999
314
0
0
Yah, I know this thread is old.. but I thought I'd bump it up because it has a lot of good information.

I'm looking for some deals on Whey Protein. I got some from healthcentralrx.com and now they dont' sell it anymore, so does anyone know where I can get a good deal on some effective and great tasting protein?

Thank you in advance
 

breakit23

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,741
0
0
www.netrition.com great site super low prices
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com another good site

I use alot of differnt protein right now im using muscle tech one 10g of glutomine and 52 grams of protein pretty good great taste.

I have had great gains this summer i went from (6-3 is height) 145 pounds to 170 I didnt think I would gain more then 10 pounds and almost doubled my strengh in alot of excersies heh i found a Meal replacement shake like met-rx myoplex etc in the mourinng breakfast 3-4 hours later usully cereal lunch later then trip to the gym protein shake afterwards lotso fruits dinner have some chicken or turkey lotso vegies nite mabe a nice high protein snack. I bareley take much fat in daily. I went to the gym 4-5 times a week worked very hard for about an hour always work hard as posible finish all sets to failure. 2-3 rest and cardio.

I have been reading stuff on creatine looks good no side affects good results i might buy it.
 

billandopus

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 1999
2,082
0
0
Good job breakit23.

If and when you want to try Creatine there are some suggested methods to incorporating it into your workout regime. What works for most people (loading phase or not - up to you) is on workout days (let's say you're doing one on, one off) is to take your first dosage of Creatine (most Creatine nowadays comes premixed just add water) an hour before your workout and then immediately afterwards. I mean, right after you drop your last weight! I carry a Nalgene bottle available at any outdoor store with a serving scooped right inside. I mix it with some warm/hot water first to mix and then cold water after to down.

Then 15-20 mins later you should slam down a protein drink since studies have conclusively proved that this is the optimum time for protein uptake and digestion. Again, the same. If possible I use fairly warm to hot water to shake (not too much vigour) and then cold water to make palatable. Then 30-45 mins later you can begin to eat a regular meal.

Studies have also suggested that taking a meal replacement/protein shake during the day in lieu of a regular meal doesn't have as much of the benefits that you would hope for. They found out that the whole idea of a protein shake as a meal replacement actually becomes utilized for mostly body maintenance and not for muscle reparation. That is: taking a protein shake at times other than right after your workout tends to be more in the caloric supporting vein rather than muscle building. I guess taking a higher amount of protein per day on average will help contribute to greater gains in lean muscle mass overall as long as you remember this protein quandry and as long as you understand the way the body handles certain nutrition at certain times.

Good luck in your lifting!

BTW, somebody in the above posts were talking about the availability of synthetic ephedra. There's a good reason why the herbal equivalent is around ie: ma haung, sida cordifolia etc. Much less side effects and the same level of efficacy and a much lower chance of taking a lethal dosage.

I mean, if you really want to fry yourself and feel the full strength of Ephedra you can take straight Ephedra, Wake Ups (caffeine) and a bit of aspirin 25mg, 25mg, 80mg 3x/day and you'll be rockin'. I wouldn't recommend it though. Do it safer and treat your body better.
 

pdo

Diamond Member
Feb 9, 2000
3,468
0
76
www.pauldophotography.com
Maybe all you bodybuffs can give me some tips. I just got a BowFlex. I'm trying to put on some weights. Somebody have recommend that I take Ensure Drinks. Now what I need to know is what is the 3 most important excercise for a rookie just starting out, or does anyone have a good program to get started? Thanks
 

MitzEclipse

Senior member
Nov 15, 1999
314
0
0
First off, are there any forums that deal with bodybuilding and supplements exclusivly?

Also, When is the best time to take:
Multi-Vitamins
Creatine (been covered, but would like more opinions)
Protien

Additionally, what is the best way make a smoothie? I keep making shakes with fruit in it, but I would definetly like to know how to make a smoothie and try somthing new.

Thanks
 

billandopus

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 1999
2,082
0
0
misc.fitness.weights newsgroup in usenet at deja.com etc... is the best source for BB info, lifestyle, advice.

.paldo whoever recommended you ensure drinks either doesn't know much about this kind of lifestyle or misunderstood about your intentions. Ensure is a meal replacement and that's all that it is. Where it is appropriate is that ensure is a better choice than going to Mickey D's or Burger King. It's got pretty much a 35/35/30 balance to it. Plus it's relatively expensive compared to a 6lb bucket of bodybuilder-specific protein powder/meal replacement.

Check out the MFW FAQ at: http://www.trygve.com/mfw.html

Hope this helps.

 

gorda777

Banned
Feb 13, 2000
48
0
0
Any idea what sweetner is used in this ProLab Whey Protein????

If the sweetner is Aspartame I would stay away from this Whey protein, there have been a lot of diseases associated to Aspartame a.k.a. (NutraSweet)

Also, the cheapest whey protein out on the market is Whey Protein Concentrate, which i would believe is the bulk of this ProLab product, theres nothing wrong with WPC... it's just harder to asimulate into the body. Not all Whey Proteins are the same.. look for a whey protein which contains CFM Protein... just my .02 $
 

cremefilled

Golden Member
Mar 25, 2000
1,446
0
0
gorda777: The ProLab whey uses acesulfame potassium (same sweetener as in the Pepsi "One" soft drink). It is whey protein concentrate, which doesn't have as high a percentage of protein per unit weight as whey protein isolate, but many of the beneficial "side effects" of whey protein (such as bolstering the auto-immune system) are thought to derive from the fractions that the whey isolate filters out. So in other words, the ProLab whey might have a little bit of fat and carbs in it, but those are the components that make whey a special protein.

About Ensure: it's extremely overpriced for what you get. You are paying for: 1) a huge, huge advertising budget, 2) a product that is premixed and canned (=more cost), and 3) a product designed specifically for senior citizens. If you want the convenience of a MRP (meal relacement powder) designed for bodybuilders, the two most popular products on the market are MetRX and EAS Myoplex--which both taste excellent. I personally use the 20 lb. tubs of Nature's Best "Perfect RX", which comes out to about $0.80 a serving, and has the same nutrition (although not quite the same taste) as the aforementioned MRP's. I can recommend www.dpsnutrition.com highly. Their prices are usually the best I've seen, and the shipping is always reasonable.

And about Androsol, which was mentioned previously: this is the real deal! I've been training for a decade, so my body is pretty static, but I gained 4-5 lbs. of muscle and lost 2-3 pounds of bodyfat after taking it for 2 weeks, and that's using only half the recommended dosage. Every set of every exercise, I was able to increase my previous personal bests. DPS has the best price, but for info about this product check out www.testosterone.net --the Net's best bodybuilding magazine, IMO.
 

MitzEclipse

Senior member
Nov 15, 1999
314
0
0
Question for you body building guys and gals:

I'm trying to do a low-carb diet and get more cut.. so I'm trying to eliminate as much breads, rice, etc.. out of my diet.

I found that i was eating a lot of granola or somthing to get me through the day, between meals. I then turned to dried fruits since it is a fruit, but it has a lot of carbs and sugars.

What do you recommend that's healthy that would get me though the day?
 

Dropkick

Member
Jun 13, 2000
84
0
0
Prolab is somewhat decent whey. I used to eat alot of Optimum, and i got real sick of it. Avoid optimum's 'Natural' flavors.
The best quality whey at the best price is at proteinfactory.com. i know lots of hardcore BBers that order from them, and i have always been happy with my order.
As for ECA, Id recommend getting ephedrine, not ephedra. Ephedra has been said by some to last longer, causing insomnia, etc. not to mention, it is hard to know exactly how much ephedrine is in it, even if it is 'standardized'. It would be a lot cheaper to just buy ephedrine HCL, and caffeine at Kmart. Add in an aspirin if you like. Ephedrine is still sold mixed with gaufisen, so the crack heads cant cook up drugs with it.
as for gaining weight, a newbie should be able to pretty easily with some diet discipline and a good training regimen. Even for an advance weight lifter, 4-6 lbs/year is pretty meager. You should be able to put on a few lbs LBM a month, unless you have truly hit your 'plateau'.
If you are gonna cycle ECA and guggle, switching every three months i way to infrequent. I personally would cycle each every two or three weeks. The ECA prob could down-regulate your metabolism is you stayed on for that long. i know it looses effectiveness.
lastly, IMO the only supplements for mass building you should buy are creatine and protein powder. nothing else has really been proven (except testosterone and it's derivatives) to increase LBM.
Just my $0.02
 

billandopus

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 1999
2,082
0
0
MitzEclipse

just to remind you that ya gotta be careful when trying out the low-carb regime. You have to cycle it because your body always wants to reach homeostasis therefore by cycling a lower carb diet with a normal one while on a exercise regime will get better results than going for long periods of time on low-carbs alone. Judicious use of the E/C/A stack can in conjunction can yield amazing results provided you have discipline and are willing to listen to your body to make the necessary changes when needed.

Good luck.
 

Nitzylpick

Senior member
Aug 30, 2000
248
0
0
http://op1.prosourceonline.com/index.asp

Prosource I have found to be excellent. They carry only the top products that actually work. The shipping charges are a flat4.95 per order no matter how much you order. This is your body we're talking about, you should get good stuff that works not necessarily the cheapest stuff.
 
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