Boehner [doesn't] fold on taxes

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Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
3
0
Was that sarcasm or are you starting to read between the lines of what he said?

No, I see what he said. It actually makes sense as a political strategy if your plan is to not concede anything. He is starting the PR war, make them look the bad guy when the economy collapses
 

Jadow

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2003
5,962
2
0
you know, piss on it. I hope we go over the fiscal cliff.

Sure I'll get hit with a tax increase from 25% to 28% on a fair amount of money, it's worth it to screw everyone else over.

The automatic cuts are needed, and F the wall street folks with their 15% cap gains.

I gotta worry about me and mine more than having the luxury of all my political ideals being met.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,217
10,874
136
you know, piss on it. I hope we go over the fiscal cliff.

Sure I'll get hit with a tax increase from 25% to 28% on a fair amount of money, it's worth it to screw everyone else over.

The automatic cuts are needed, and F the wall street folks with their 15% cap gains.

I gotta worry about me and mine more than having the luxury of all my political ideals being met.

I'm sort of OK with this. (I just want to know in advance so I can move my money into T-bills first).

No revenue formula, no deal. Sad thing is, Republicans are so bat shit crazy against any revenue side of a deal that, they're willing the let the whole financial system go into the shitter to once again, prove an ideological/moral point, rather than try to solve the problem in an equitable manner.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Your are trying to mislead or are just intellectually dishonest.

Simpson Bowles pegged the top tax rate at 28%, but also set for capital gains and dividends at 28%.

The republicans would be stupid to take a 28% across the board top marginal rate including capital gains and dividends. A 4% increase of marginal tax rates on 1.5% of the populace, is a hell of a lot small tax hike than a 13% increase of capital gains/dividends.

The republicans have every thing to lose here. The majority of those voted yesterday support tax increases on those making $250k. The republicans will be blamed for the massive tax increases to everyone, for the protection of 1.5% of the population.

A compromise can be made so long as the Republicans drop the asinine tax pledge.

So, uhh, Repubs are the party of the Rich, for the Rich, and by the Rich, right?

Dems' best answer is to let all the Bush taxcuts expire if they have to, to raise taxes at the top & increase revenue. Propose new middle & working class tax cuts. Let Repubs go home & explain to their broke-ass red state welfare queen constituencies why it was so important to sacrifice their voters in vain defense of their financial supporters...

Let 'em explain why 40% of the state budget of Mississippi, for example, went poof! along with their food stamps & everything else.

Repubs are essentially hostage taking economic terrorists at this point, so give 'em the Dick Cheney answer- We don't negotiate with terrorists! Got a hostage? Just kill the poor bastard, and then you'll have nothing...

If they can't back down from their own bullshit, hang the consequences around their necks like a dead albatross, beat the Hell out of 'em in the midterms.

Even Teahadists won't buy that bullshit...
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
So, uhh, Repubs are the party of the Rich, for the Rich, and by the Rich, right?

Dems' best answer is to let all the Bush taxcuts expire if they have to, to raise taxes at the top & increase revenue. Propose new middle & working class tax cuts. Let Repubs go home & explain to their broke-ass red state welfare queen constituencies why it was so important to sacrifice their voters in vain defense of their financial supporters...

Let 'em explain why 40% of the state budget of Mississippi, for example, went poof! along with their food stamps & everything else.

Repubs are essentially hostage taking economic terrorists at this point, so give 'em the Dick Cheney answer- We don't negotiate with terrorists! Got a hostage? Just kill the poor bastard, and then you'll have nothing...

If they can't back down from their own bullshit, hang the consequences around their necks like a dead albatross, beat the Hell out of 'em in the midterms.

Even Teahadists won't buy that bullshit...

And this is why they have to compromise. If they dont everything is going to get blamed on them for protecting 1.5% from a 4% marginal tax increase.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
3
0
So, uhh, Repubs are the party of the Rich, for the Rich, and by the Rich, right?

Dems' best answer is to let all the Bush taxcuts expire if they have to, to raise taxes at the top & increase revenue. Propose new middle & working class tax cuts. Let Repubs go home & explain to their broke-ass red state welfare queen constituencies why it was so important to sacrifice their voters in vain defense of their financial supporters...

Let 'em explain why 40% of the state budget of Mississippi, for example, went poof! along with their food stamps & everything else.

Repubs are essentially hostage taking economic terrorists at this point, so give 'em the Dick Cheney answer- We don't negotiate with terrorists! Got a hostage? Just kill the poor bastard, and then you'll have nothing...

If they can't back down from their own bullshit, hang the consequences around their necks like a dead albatross, beat the Hell out of 'em in the midterms.

Even Teahadists won't buy that bullshit...

The Dems answer is not to increase taxes on everyone. They would pass and sign an extension of the cuts for under $250k (probably under $1 million). The Republicans vote no on that and say we want this package of cuts for everyone.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Boehner isn't saying what people think he's saying. When he uses the phrase "raise taxes" what he really means is tax "reforms" that will cause the middle class to pay more in taxes.

Boehner's a slime ball.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
0
That's all they have to do. Let the tax increases and spending cuts kick in. Then, they can jump in (together), cut the taxes for everyone below $250,000 and problem solved. Repubs can say that they didn't vote to raise taxes and actually cut them (back to current levels). The dems can say that they got their revenue increases.

This. The GOP is cornered on this, especially on the Bush tax cuts, because they all expire if Congress simply does nothing. Once they expire, the dems just sponsor a bill that cuts taxes for the middle class, and the GOP can either support it or oppose a middle class tax cut, at their electoral peril. OTOH they can support the new tax cut bill without violating their pledge, so in the end we're going to get exactly what Obama wants, while the repubs will save face.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Ok, I got it. You are a fucking idiot and incapable of having a discussion. Go read a civics book dumbass and learn how the government works.

That's quite ironic coming from on of the bigger hacks on this forum. Exactly how many people did you tell to fuck off and suck it last night?
 

Schmide

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2002
5,595
730
126
I watched his speech. It was basically Obama needs to compromise to our side.

In his own words. "Hell no you can't"
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
I have some optimism that the Boehner offer to work in a bi-partisan manner may turn out to be real. At least it beats the hell out of the McConnell promise of continuing gridlock.

As Obama and the Democrats finally have the GOP by the balls over the fiscal cliff.

Go right ahead Boenher, use your house majority to block compromise as the nation then automatically falls over the digital cliff. Same thing for McConnell, go ahead, Filibuster compromise, and get the same results.Go ahead McConnell and Boehner, see your rich supporters get hit with huge tax increases while you pretend the middle class will be furious at Obama and the dems when they don't have to pay very much extra taxes. Especially when the republirats will have to wait 2 years to get any electoral vindication that may never come. As the American people finally get the deficit reductions the GOP has been demanding.

And even better McConnell and Boehner have less than two months time to negotiate a compromise as even Grover Norquist pledges will not be able to dispel the GOP PANIC PANIC PANIC.

And even better, if McConnell and Boehner can't get the job done by the end of 2012, there may be a large chance that that McConnell may no longer be Senate minority leader and Boehner may no longer be the sqeaker of the house after the new congress convenes in 2013.

After all, Boehner just saw his state go solidly bluer in 2012, and if Mitch McConnell thinks his Senate seat is still safe in 2014, he may be delusional.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Boehner isn't saying what people think he's saying. When he uses the phrase "raise taxes" what he really means is tax "reforms" that will cause the middle class to pay more in taxes.

Boehner's a slime ball.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shira, you may be right about Boehner being a slime ball, but when the vast majority of Americans agree with that slime ball assessment, the GOP House members may simply vote to strip Boehner of his leadership.

As I can envision the dems of soon running ads complaining about the McConnell Boehner agenda.

After all, its the GOP and not the dems who have to go back to the drawing board after the election of 11/2012.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
1
0
This. The GOP is cornered on this, especially on the Bush tax cuts, because they all expire if Congress simply does nothing. Once they expire, the dems just sponsor a bill that cuts taxes for the middle class, and the GOP can either support it or oppose a middle class tax cut, at their electoral peril. OTOH they can support the new tax cut bill without violating their pledge, so in the end we're going to get exactly what Obama wants, while the repubs will save face.

Sounds good, but as soon as it happens the Republicans will claim that "Obama raised taxes" by allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire. They're already doing it.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
3
0
Sounds good, but as soon as it happens the Republicans will claim that "Obama raised taxes" by allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire. They're already doing it.

I think we're missing the fact that all of this has already happened.

The difference is, once it turns into a crisis, the media is going to go much more in depth on what each side is offering. The Democrat's extension of the middle-class tax cut, it dying in the Senate, didn't make a lot of news because there was no crisis. Once this issue is front-and-center I think it is a bludgeon for Democrats.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
That's quite ironic coming from on of the bigger hacks on this forum. Exactly how many people did you tell to fuck off and suck it last night?

Just the previously smug & insulting ones who drank the Romney koolaid served up in bucketfuls by Faux & the rightwing punditariat...

Not that I agree with the way it was done, at all.

Boehner isn't in a position to compromise, because Cantor & the Teahadists will cut him off at the knees if he tries.

I think Wolfe 9999 has it right- the Bush cuts will be allowed to expire after a great deal of drama, because it's the only way they can save face among the rank & file & especially among the true Bush constituency. Fight it out to the end. They'll use the next year to play the victim & dramatize, ultimately agree to retroactive middle class tax cuts. Nobody will pay higher taxes for 2012, anyway. It's the only way they can hope to hold their own in the Midterms.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,111
30,498
136
This. The GOP is cornered on this, especially on the Bush tax cuts, because they all expire if Congress simply does nothing. Once they expire, the dems just sponsor a bill that cuts taxes for the middle class, and the GOP can either support it or oppose a middle class tax cut, at their electoral peril. OTOH they can support the new tax cut bill without violating their pledge, so in the end we're going to get exactly what Obama wants, while the repubs will save face.
Can't the GOP just pass their own bill in the House cutting everyone's taxes and when the Dems block it claim the same thing? Isn't this a more likely scenario considering GOP still controls the House?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Can't the GOP just pass their own bill in the House cutting everyone's taxes and when the Dems block it claim the same thing? Isn't this a more likely scenario considering GOP still controls the House?

Not really. The bill would then go to the Senate. Dems would modify it to reflect their wishes. Senatorial Repubs might filibuster it- if so, the onus is on Repubs. If it's not blocked, it goes back to the HOR, where, if unacceptable, it's rejected & all the Bush cuts expire.

Either way, it's on Repubs. They're holding the welfare of the 98% hostage to the greed of the top 2%, actually the top .1%, and that'll be tough to hide or to reconcile.

The vast majority of Americans support tax increases on the wealthy, and Repubs go against that at their own peril.
 
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