Boeing problems...

[hal2kilo]

Per MSNBC, Boeing has made a new offer with 35% and labor will be voting Wednesday on whether to accept the offer. Negotiation was aided by the Biden labor secretary.

 

[skyking]

I drive by the picket lines at the wing responsibility center daily, and honk and wave at the workers there.
( I worked on building that facility ).
I hope they get it together soon. It has been a long strike.

 

[Zorba]

I haven't seen it posted here, but Boeing is doing a 10% layoff. Approximately 17k employees, and international is mostly exempt, so it'll be closer to 13% of US employees.

 

[hal2kilo]

Union rejected Boeings offer. It sucks when you are negotiating with a clueless management that is driving the company into bankruptcy.

 

[skyking]

it sucks.

 

[BoomerD]

This Boeing strike is nothing new…

Timeline of Boeing-related strikes goes back more than 70 years

As Boeing workers voted Thursday to strike, let's take a look back at the timeline of Boeing strikes, going back 70 years.

mynorthwest.com

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Anyone got actual info on this? How does a satellite explode?
www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/boeing-satellite-intelsat-33e-explodes-space-anamoly/

 

[Indus]

Anyone got actual info on this? How does a satellite explode?
www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/boeing-satellite-intelsat-33e-explodes-space-anamoly/

Was it hit by Russian S-500 debree?

 

[Paratus]

Anyone got actual info on this? How does a satellite explode?
www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/boeing-satellite-intelsat-33e-explodes-space-anamoly/

There are pressurized tanks of propellants on board. Stack enough failures and it’s possible to get a catastrophic failure.

 

[hal2kilo]

Union rejected Boeings offer. It sucks when you are negotiating with a clueless management that is driving the company into bankruptcy.

AP article instead of local Seattel Times. Damn blocking shit is getting really old. Anyway, I kind of think being stuck on pensions is the weakest demand. Just demand a decent 401k contribution. Why do you want to depend on the companies financial security for your retirement.

Boeing's 'final' 30% pay hike offer isn't good enough, union says

Boeing is making what it calls a "best and final offer” to striking union machinists, but the union says it won't vote by Boeing's deadline.

apnews.com

 

[Brainonska511]

AP article instead of local Seattel Times. Damn blocking shit is getting really old. Anyway, I kind of think being stuck on pensions is the weakest demand. Just demand a decent 401k contribution. Why do you want to depend on the companies financial security for your retirement.

Boeing's 'final' 30% pay hike offer isn't good enough, union says

Boeing is making what it calls a "best and final offer” to striking union machinists, but the union says it won't vote by Boeing's deadline.

apnews.com

I kind of like having a 401k with an okay match. If the company and I part ways, the money follows me and I don't have to worry about a pension and some jackass driving the company into the ground later.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

There are pressurized tanks of propellants on board. Stack enough failures and it’s possible to get a catastrophic failure.

But wouldn't a leak be far more likely in this scenario than an actual donation? How bad do you have to fuck up to get oxygen, fuel, and a spark in the same place in a fucking vacuum?

 

[Indus]

But wouldn't a leak be far more likely in this scenario than an actual donation? How bad do you have to fuck up to get oxygen, fuel, and a spark in the same place in a fucking vacuum?

I don't think they use Oxygen as a propellent in space.. to get to space yes.. but once the Satellite is deployed and in orbit.. I think Nitrogen is used to course correct.

 

[Paratus]

But wouldn't a leak be far more likely in this scenario than an actual donation? How bad do you have to fuck up to get oxygen, fuel, and a spark in the same place in a fucking vacuum?

I don't think they use Oxygen as a propellent in space.. to get to space yes.. but once the Satellite is deployed and in orbit.. I think Nitrogen is used to course correct.

There are tons of ways for a spacecraft to catch fire and / or explode.


While I don’t work with satellites I do work with all current US manned capsules. The most common propulsion systems use hydrazine and nitrogen-tetroxide. These are called hypergolic propellants and they spontaneously ignite when they come into contact with each other.

This simplifies the propulsion system. The propellants are liquid at most temperatures so they don’t boil off like cryogenic propellant. The thrusters are simpler, most just using high pressure helium to pressurize the tanks to push the prop into the thrusters

However if vapor from both propellant tanks migrates back into the helium system and meet because of valve leaks you can get an explosion.

If the right combination of valves fail closed and pressure relief fails any pressurized line can burst if it gets hot enough.

Most spacecraft are using lithium ion batteries these days. If a cell catastrophically fails and they didn’t do a great job to prevent cell to cell propagation / thermal runaway the batteries can explode.

Or you just get unlucky and a piece of MMOD (micrometeorite / orbital debris) smacks your vehicle and ruptures a pressurized component.

I haven’t even touched on electrical shorts, stuck on heaters and other failure modes.

 

[Zorba]

Union rejected Boeings offer. It sucks when you are negotiating with a clueless management that is driving the company into bankruptcy.

The offer was really really good. I highly doubt the union will get a significantly better offer and their refusing a really good offer will likely lead to more work being moved out of the PNW.

 

[Zorba]

AP article instead of local Seattel Times. Damn blocking shit is getting really old. Anyway, I kind of think being stuck on pensions is the weakest demand. Just demand a decent 401k contribution. Why do you want to depend on the companies financial security for your retirement.

Boeing's 'final' 30% pay hike offer isn't good enough, union says

Boeing is making what it calls a "best and final offer” to striking union machinists, but the union says it won't vote by Boeing's deadline.

apnews.com

The 401K offer was a $5,000 automatic contribution at ratification, 100% match of the first 8% and an additional 4% automatic contribution. They also increased the pension payout for those with vested pensions (pre-2016). This seems like a pretty fair offer.

 

[K1052]

There are tons of ways for a spacecraft to catch fire and / or explode.


While I don’t work with satellites I do work with all current US manned capsules. The most common propulsion systems use hydrazine and nitrogen-tetroxide. These are called hypergolic propellants and they spontaneously ignite when they come into contact with each other.

This simplifies the propulsion system. The propellants are liquid at most temperatures so they don’t boil off like cryogenic propellant. The thrusters are simpler, most just using high pressure helium to pressurize the tanks to push the prop into the thrusters

However if vapor from both propellant tanks migrates back into the helium system and meet because of valve leaks you can get an explosion.

See also: 1980 Titan II incident in Arkansas.

 

[fskimospy]

There are tons of ways for a spacecraft to catch fire and / or explode.


While I don’t work with satellites I do work with all current US manned capsules. The most common propulsion systems use hydrazine and nitrogen-tetroxide. These are called hypergolic propellants and they spontaneously ignite when they come into contact with each other.

This simplifies the propulsion system. The propellants are liquid at most temperatures so they don’t boil off like cryogenic propellant. The thrusters are simpler, most just using high pressure helium to pressurize the tanks to push the prop into the thrusters

However if vapor from both propellant tanks migrates back into the helium system and meet because of valve leaks you can get an explosion.

If the right combination of valves fail closed and pressure relief fails any pressurized line can burst if it gets hot enough.

Most spacecraft are using lithium ion batteries these days. If a cell catastrophically fails and they didn’t do a great job to prevent cell to cell propagation / thermal runaway the batteries can explode.

Or you just get unlucky and a piece of MMOD (micrometeorite / orbital debris) smacks your vehicle and ruptures a pressurized component.

I haven’t even touched on electrical shorts, stuck on heaters and other failure modes.

What I provide to this forum is mid level HR shit. This guy is doing the real shit.

I love reading this.

 

[Brainonska511]

The offer was really really good. I highly doubt the union will get a significantly better offer and their refusing a really good offer will likely lead to more work being moved out of the PNW.

I'm guessing there is some animosity and distrust between the rank and file union and management, contributing to the recent vote outcome.

 

[Zorba]

I'm guessing there is some animosity and distrust between the rank and file union and management, contributing to the recent vote outcome.

I'm sure that is a big part of it.

 

[uclaLabrat]

There are tons of ways for a spacecraft to catch fire and / or explode.


While I don’t work with satellites I do work with all current US manned capsules. The most common propulsion systems use hydrazine and nitrogen-tetroxide. These are called hypergolic propellants and they spontaneously ignite when they come into contact with each other.

This simplifies the propulsion system. The propellants are liquid at most temperatures so they don’t boil off like cryogenic propellant. The thrusters are simpler, most just using high pressure helium to pressurize the tanks to push the prop into the thrusters

However if vapor from both propellant tanks migrates back into the helium system and meet because of valve leaks you can get an explosion.

If the right combination of valves fail closed and pressure relief fails any pressurized line can burst if it gets hot enough.

Most spacecraft are using lithium ion batteries these days. If a cell catastrophically fails and they didn’t do a great job to prevent cell to cell propagation / thermal runaway the batteries can explode.

Or you just get unlucky and a piece of MMOD (micrometeorite / orbital debris) smacks your vehicle and ruptures a pressurized component.

I haven’t even touched on electrical shorts, stuck on heaters and other failure modes.

Do thruster systems differ from propulsion in design?

 

[Paratus]

Do thruster systems differ from propulsion in design?

I’m using the terms thruster and propulsion interchangeably. Most vehicles (talking orbital vehicles not rockets) only have one type of propulsion system with differently sized but similar thrusters.

Generally propulsion system refers to the tanks, plumbing, valves and thrusters needed to perform a burn. Thruster generally refers to the individual engine (bell, valves, local plumbing).

Manned vehicles generally have small RCS (reaction control system) thrusters and larger translational thrusters.

The RCS thrusters are all over the vehicle and are used to point the vehicle, control attitude, and perform small fine translation manuevers.

The larger translational thrusters (the large bell in the back - the OMSE - and 8 smaller rear facing engines - Aux Engines- of which we can see 4 here) are for performing large maneuvers. For Orion above the OMSE is used to perform perigee raise burns, trans-lunar injection burn, and other large burns. The smaller Aux engines can act as backup to the OMSE via longer burns or provide for translational maneuvers with thrust in between the OMSE and RCS.

All of these engines use the same hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide propulsion system.

Satellites especially newer ones in geostationary orbit not only use hypergolic RCS systems and translational thrusters but may also have ion thrusters and potentially reaction wheels.

Ion thrusters are low thrust but high efficiency and use electricity to ionize noble gases for propellant. Less chance of explosions but still have pressurized systems. Great for stationkeeping and long life.

What I provide to this forum is mid level HR shit. This guy is doing the real shit.

I love reading this.

😳 Thanks!

 

[Brovane]

I’m using the terms thruster and propulsion interchangeably. Most vehicles (talking orbital vehicles not rockets) only have one type of propulsion system with differently sized but similar thrusters.

Generally propulsion system refers to the tanks, plumbing, valves and thrusters needed to perform a burn. Thruster generally refers to the individual engine (bell, valves, local plumbing).

Manned vehicles generally have small RCS (reaction control system) thrusters and larger translational thrusters.

The RCS thrusters are all over the vehicle and are used to point the vehicle, control attitude, and perform small fine translation manuevers.

The larger translational thrusters (the large bell in the back - the OMSE - and 8 smaller rear facing engines - Aux Engines- of which we can see 4 here) are for performing large maneuvers. For Orion above the OMSE is used to perform perigee raise burns, trans-lunar injection burn, and other large burns. The smaller Aux engines can act as backup to the OMSE via longer burns or provide for translational maneuvers with thrust in between the OMSE and RCS.

All of these engines use the same hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide propulsion system.

Satellites especially newer ones in geostationary orbit not only use hypergolic RCS systems and translational thrusters but may also have ion thrusters and potentially reaction wheels.

Ion thrusters are low thrust but high efficiency and use electricity to ionize noble gases for propellant. Less chance of explosions but still have pressurized systems. Great for stationkeeping and long life.

😳 Thanks!

Isn't that is what is one of the things that is unusual about the Crew Dragon is that it uses one type of thruster (Draco) for all of it's orbital maneuvers? It has Super Draco's but they are only used for abort scenarios.

 

[Zorba]

While I don’t work with satellites I do work with all current US manned capsules.

Now technically, those are still satellites .

 

[Paratus]

Isn't that is what is one of the things that is unusual about the Crew Dragon is that it uses one type of thruster (Draco) for all of it's orbital maneuvers? It has Super Draco's but they are only used for abort scenarios.

That’s true. They sized the system to only require a single type of orbital thrusters to handle all the RCS and translational duties. Saves mass and complexity.

The other improvement (as I’m sure you know) was they mounted them all in what would be the command module on Orion or Starliner so they can be reused since that section returns to Earth.

While all three have a service module and a “command module”. Orion and Starliner have their Orbital RCS and big translational thrusters mounted on the service module which gets dumped before re-entry. Since it gets dumped before re-entry the command module has to have its own simple propulsion system to handle re-entry.

SpaceX doesn’t have to double up on propulsion systems because of their design. It does mean they had to work those thrusters into the mass budget for their parachute system.