Boeing problems...

[Zorba]

It sort of is, in that none of those issues over 33 years ever made the plane kill everyone on board, unlike certain current Boeing models have done.

Just for the record, it's been 5 years. Yeah there are problems that shouldn't be happening, but there was one issue that killed people and it has been corrected. Even if you look at just the safety of the 737Max and 787 you'd still have the safest forms of transportation possible and a significantly better safety record than in the 90s and 00s.

Why aren't you all talking shit about Hyundai that built a ship with single point failures that killed people and is going to cost billions in damages?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Just for the record, it's been 5 years. Yeah there are problems that shouldn't be happening, but there was one issue that killed people and it has been corrected. Even if you look at just the safety of the 737Max and 787 you'd still have the safest forms of transportation possible and a significantly better safety record that in the 90s and 00s.

Why aren't you all talking shit about Hyundai that built a ship with single point failures that killed people and is going to cost billions in damages?

Cuz we're less likely to be on a Hyundai death trap boat than a Boeing death trap aircraft?

 

[Zorba]

Cuz we're less likely to be on a Hyundai death trap boat than a Boeing death trap aircraft?

I just hope you don't ever get into any car.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I just hope you don't ever get into any car.

I avoid it whenever possible, and I'm the only one who drives.

 

[feralkid]

Just for the record, it's been 5 years. Yeah there are problems that shouldn't be happening, but there was one issue that killed people and it has been corrected. Even if you look at just the safety of the 737Max and 787 you'd still have the safest forms of transportation possible and a significantly better safety record than in the 90s and 00s.

Why aren't you all talking shit about Hyundai that built a ship with single point failures that killed people and is going to cost billions in damages?

Handwaves 346 dead humans due to corporate corruption; after all "it's been 5 years".

 

[Zorba]

Handwaves 346 dead humans due to corporate corruption; after all "it's been 5 years".

One issue killed those people over 5 years ago. You make it sound like new Boeing aircraft are falling out of the sky constantly.

Obviously that should never have happened, but it has not been a recurring issue. Also not like older Boeing, McDonnell Douglas, and Airbus aircraft didn't have their share of problems. The DC-10 killed way more people due to shitty design than the Max, as an example. The A300 killed almost that many people because Airbus was too stupid to limit the authority to the rudder at speed, something Boeing has done since the first hydraulicly powered rudders.

 

[igor_kavinski]

The A300 killed almost that many people because Airbus was too stupid to limit the authority to the rudder at speed, something Boeing has done since the first hydraulicly powered rudders.

The point is, we are supposed to be in the modern era where engineers are better trained and they have a lot more advanced tools at their disposal to guarantee safety. But safety considerations were ignored purely out of greed due to imbeciles running the show. Whatever happened 5 years ago, should never have happened in the first place and there is absolutely nothing Boeing can do to fix that. Everyone involved who was criminally negligent or forced others to overlook concerns, should be in jail for life. Period.

There cannot be a safety culture at Boeing unless everyone there knows that culprits will face serious consequences. Right now, they are like, oh wow, we sort of ran over a puppy in the driveway. Heehee, sorry. Won't happen again.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

One issue killed those people over 5 years ago. You make it sound like new Boeing aircraft are falling out of the sky constantly.

Obviously that should never have happened, but it has not been a recurring issue. Also not like older Boeing, McDonnell Douglas, and Airbus aircraft didn't have their share of problems. The DC-10 killed way more people due to shitty design than the Max, as an example. The A300 killed almost that many people because Airbus was too stupid to limit the authority to the rudder at speed, something Boeing has done since the first hydraulicly powered rudders.

But the cause of that accident is recurring, because it's embedded into the culture of the company. The issues that resulted in those planes going down started in a board room, and in the heads of people who will never set foot on one of their own aircraft (or at least not one of these poor people sky buses). I reject the idea that I should be uncaring about such a small issue as a plane falling out of the sky, when the decision makers for that plane were so uncaring about my life.

 

[Zorba]

The point is, we are supposed to be in the modern era where engineers are better trained and they have a lot more advanced tools at their disposal to guarantee safety. But safety considerations were ignored purely out of greed due to imbeciles running the show. Whatever happened 5 years ago, should never have happened in the first place and there is absolutely nothing Boeing can do to fix that. Everyone involved who was criminally negligent or forced others to overlook concerns, should be in jail for life. Period.

There cannot be a safety culture at Boeing unless everyone there knows that culprits will face serious consequences. Right now, they are like, oh wow, we sort of ran over a puppy in the driveway. Heehee, sorry. Won't happen again.

So the two of you are arguing opposite things. He was saying "Look these old Boeing aircraft didn't kill people" and now you are saying "so what if the old aircraft killed people, new ones shouldn't." I was arguing against the former point and will not argue against the latter.

I've said many times in this thread the Max was a major fuck up that shouldn't have happened. Regardless, aviation is safer today than it has ever been.

 

[Zorba]

But the cause of that accident is recurring, because it's embedded into the culture of the company. The issues that resulted in those planes going down started in a board room, and in the heads of people who will never set foot on one of their own aircraft (or at least not one of these poor people sky buses). I reject the idea that I should be uncaring about such a small issue as a plane falling out of the sky, when the decision makers for that plane were so uncaring about my life.

Not at all what I was saying, but oh well. All of you keep shitting on Boeing, while ignoring that more people will be killed on roads today in the US than have ever been killed by a Boeing Max aircraft (most due to decisions made by DOTs and car manufacturers, knowing it's the less safe design).

Keep posting every time a Boeing aircraft 50% past it's designed service life has a flat tire while ignoring the major fuck ups happening weekly with ATC that have very nearly resulted in major collisions. Ignore that Pratt engines on the A320 and A220 are the least reliable engines in 40 years, yet these aircraft maintain ETOPS cert. And please keep ignoring it when shit falls off Airbus aircraft, because that only matters if it's a Boeing plane.

Also keep making excuses for the hundreds of lives lost due to Airbus mistakes.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Regardless, aviation is safer today than it has ever been.

In general, probably yes. But don't tell me that you wouldn't be a little nervous getting onto a Boeing plane these days. Who knows how many other flaws remain to be uncovered, especially in the newly delivered planes. How long before the next disaster strikes?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Also keep making excuses for the hundreds of lives lost due to Airbus mistakes.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/boeing-planes-jets-safety-issues-e575d82c

Yes, Boeing has more incidents because there are more flights with Boeing planes. Shouldn't that make them more responsible or is it normal for the leader in this industry to just give up on safety and let things run their natural course coz airlines have no choice and must keep using the planes they already paid millions or billions for?

 

[Zorba]

In general, probably yes. But don't tell me that you wouldn't be a little nervous getting onto a Boeing plane these days. Who knows how many other flaws remain to be uncovered, especially in the newly delivered planes. How long before the next disaster strikes?

I fly on Boeing aircraft all the time.

The current certification philosophy pushed by Congress does worry me. The FAA needs to be funded to properly staff their ACOs and the ODA concept should be massively reevaluated. I think that is a concern for the whole industry.

The thing about Boeing/Airbus is they have massive financial incentives to not fuck up (and still did). But these little repair stations and aftermarket shops that are getting ODAs will just close shop and reopen under a new if they mess up.

 

[Zorba]

https://www.barrons.com/articles/boeing-planes-jets-safety-issues-e575d82c

View attachment 98097
Yes, Boeing has more incidents because there are more flights with Boeing planes. Shouldn't that make them more responsible or is it normal for the leader in this industry to just give up on safety and let things run their natural course coz airlines have no choice and must keep using the planes they already paid millions or billions for?

That graph is pretty biased, by far more US flights are Boeing than those other manufacturers. So yes you'd expect more incidents on the aircraft doing more flights, this is like people arguing the Concord was the safety airliner ever when it really just never flew. Also "incident" has a very broad definition that could be anything from a flat tire to a in flight shut down.

But based on your graph, why are you bashing Boeing when Bombardier and Embraer have far less flights and just as many incidents?

Further nearly all freighters are Boeing aircraft which tend to have a higher incident rate.

I'd like to see worldwide data normalized by flight hours. Even then, the average age of Boeing aircraft is higher than Airbus for multiple reasons, including just being the number one deliveries until the early aughts and freighters being old as hell.

 

[sdifox]

That graph is pretty biased, by far more US flights are Boeing than those other manufacturers. So yes you'd expect more incidents on the aircraft doing more flights, this is like people arguing the Concord was the safety airliner ever when it really just never flew. Also "incident" has a very broad definition that could be anything from a flat tire to a in flight shut down.

But based on your graph, why are you bashing Boeing when Bombardier and Embraer have far less flights and just as many incidents?

Further nearly all freighters are Boeing aircraft which tend to have a higher incident rate.

I'd like to see worldwide data normalized by flight hours. Even then, the average age of Boeing aircraft is higher than Airbus for multiple reasons, including just being the number one deliveries until the early aughts and freighters being old as hell.

You mean like how Boeing didn't have anything to compete with Bombardier C Series so they got the government to do their dirty work, resulting in Bombardier selling it to Airbus? Bombardier exited commercial air business after that. Bombardier spent 6B on that program.

CSeries dumping petition by Boeing - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Zorba]

You mean like how Boeing didn't have anything to compete with Bombardier C Series so they got the government to do their dirty work, resulting in Bombardier selling it to Airbus? Bombardier exited commercial air business after that. Bombardier spent 6B on that program.

Not sure how that has anything to do with what I said.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Not at all what I was saying, but oh well. All of you keep shitting on Boeing, while ignoring that more people will be killed on roads today in the US than have ever been killed by a Boeing Max aircraft (most due to decisions made by DOTs and car manufacturers, knowing it's the less safe design).

Keep posting every time a Boeing aircraft 50% past it's designed service life has a flat tire while ignoring the major fuck ups happening weekly with ATC that have very nearly resulted in major collisions. Ignore that Pratt engines on the A320 and A220 are the least reliable engines in 40 years, yet these aircraft maintain ETOPS cert. And please keep ignoring it when shit falls off Airbus aircraft, because that only matters if it's a Boeing plane.

Also keep making excuses for the hundreds of lives lost due to Airbus mistakes.

You're supposed to be giving me more reasons to fly, not less.

I'm not shitting on Boeing because they aren't Airbus, I'm shitting on them because their dumbass decisions landed them on the news. Now I gotta give a shit about Airbus too, thanks asshole.

 

[iRONic]

Ain't none of you motherfuckers EVER getting on another plane REGARDLESS of who built it if you fucking knew what we occasionally had to do at the gate or in the cockpit to MEL shit to get a flight off on time!!!

Shitlol

 

[brycejones]

Ain't none of you motherfuckers EVER getting on another plane REGARDLESS of who built it if you fucking knew what we occasionally had to do at the gate or in the cockpit to MEL shit to get a flight off on time!!!

Shitlol

Duct tape, chewing gum and some wire strands it’s all good.

 

[Paratus]

Duct tape, chewing gum and some wire strands it’s all good.

It’s called. SPEED TAPE.

 

[skyking]

that's right. On a single it is 100 MPH tape.
Twins get the 200 MPH tape.
Transport category gets the speed tape.
Same tape, 3 names, 3 prices. Capitalism baby!!

@iRONic
Those nuts and bolts the ramp crew picks up?
That's the continuous weight reduction program

 

[iRONic]

FOD for thought…

 

[lsd]

Ain't none of you motherfuckers EVER getting on another plane REGARDLESS of who built it if you fucking knew what we occasionally had to do at the gate or in the cockpit to MEL shit to get a flight off on time!!!

Shitlol

Fuel leak? I see 89 drops per minute, gtg ! LoL.
Yes the passengers would piss their pants if they knew what we are *allowed* to dispatch.

 

[Zorba]

It’s called. SPEED TAPE.

"Cover hole with three layers of speed tape in criss cross pattern, okay for continued service. Check tape every A check, perform permanent repair at next B check."

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Curiouser and curiouser

Second Boeing Whistleblower Dies Suddenly​

Joshua Dean, a former Spirit AeroSystems employee, had accused the aircraft manufacturer of ignoring defects in the production of 737 MAX planes.


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