Boeing vs. the Union (and the NLRB)

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MissingYou

Junior Member
Feb 9, 2011
10
0
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More and more airlines are outsourcing maintenance to China at $2/hour.

If I were Boeing, I'd just fire them all, pack up my company, and relocate to Beijing. It would be worth it to give a nice big FU to American unions.

National security problems congress won't let them or they would.

Boeing could split out its commercial from the military.

Commercial moves overseas.

Burroughs did this when they sucked up Sperry and became Unisys.
They had to spin off certain Defense elements to avoid conflicts.
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,050
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What's the name? I'll watch it after work :biggrin:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/sites/all/play_music/play_full.php?play=403

i believe it used to be a video but now it's just audio.
wait past the 45 sec plea for donations for the full cast.

summary from amazon review:
This is an hour-long story about an improbable partnership between General Motors and Toyota to jointly run an auto plant in Fremont, California. The JV was formed in 1984 and ran the plant until its closing in April 2010. It was called New United Motor Manufacturing Inc., but everyone called it "NUMMI." It's a fascinating narrative, with interviews of workers, labor leaders, management from the plant and business school faculty. This is one of the best radio pieces you'll ever hear. Although the two companies were fierce competitors, each needed the other at the time. GM needed to learn how to build high-quality small cars efficiently. Toyota had never made a car in America and wanted a local partner for its first plant here. Toyota chose GM's Fremont assembly plant, which had been closed down as one of the worst-performing factories in the country. Interviews with workers recounted incidents of drugs, sex, intentional sabotaging of cars, absenteeism so massive that managers would run down to the local bar to round up day workers, and constant labor-management fights. Contrary to almost everyone's advice, Toyota re-hired the vast majority of what was reputed to be one of the worst work forces in the auto industry. These blue-collar, hard-drinking American workers were sent to Japan to train alongside Japanese workers in Toyota City to learn the Toyota Way. Tape from those trips revealed a remarkable transformation. Almost from the day it opened, the NUMMI plant had the highest quality of any auto plant in the U.S. Its operations were radically different from any auto plant in America. During its lifetime, the plant produced 8 million high-quality cars, mostly Toyota Corollas. This program tells how this transformation was accomplished, why GM failed to learn from it and why Toyota knew GM could not copy the Toyota Way (ultimately leading to GM's bankruptcy). The story is told by Frank Langfit in a joint production by NPR and WBEZ/This American Life.
 
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the DRIZZLE

Platinum Member
Sep 6, 2007
2,956
1
81
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/sites/all/play_music/play_full.php?play=403

i believe it used to be a video but now it's just audio.
wait past the 45 sec plea for donations for the full cast.

summary from amazon review:

At the time that plant was built everyone was talking about about how much of a coop it was for GM, that Toyota was going to give away all its secrets. It turned out that GM learned almost nothing but Toyota learned how to do business here and became even more successful.
 
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Jul 10, 2007
12,050
3
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At the time that plant was build everyone was talking about about how much of a coop it was for GM, that Toyota was going to give away all its secrets. It turned out that GM learned almost nothing but Toyota learned how to do business here and became even more successful.

not Toyota's fault GM managers and UAW members have the learning capacity and work ethic of a welfare recipient.
 

Spikesoldier

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2001
6,766
0
0
bleh unions

should have let auto makers failed instead of bailing them out so (at least some of) the unions would finally die.

is anyone surprised that with a democrat in office that the unions are getting preferential treatment?

what i am surprised is that they would do this to boeing, i mean its a component of the DJIA how could wall street president do such a thing?
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,670
271
126
LMAO, you should see the documentary about the GM/UAW and their work ethic.
drunk on the job, purposely left bolts undone, sleeping on the job...

This has been a problem for the UAW for many years. My uncle used to work at a Ford dealarship 30-odd years ago. It was typical to see cars come in from the plant with parts strewn all over the back seat that someone just didn't feel like assembling that particular day. I've had friends over the years tell me all kinds of (personal experience) stories about the abuses (by the workers) in union shops.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Boeing could split out its commercial from the military.

Commercial moves overseas.

Burroughs did this when they sucked up Sperry and became Unisys.
They had to spin off certain Defense elements to avoid conflicts.

A lot of boeings commerical is x compatible to weapons won't happen other than rivets
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
This has been a problem for the UAW for many years. My uncle used to work at a Ford dealarship 30-odd years ago. It was typical to see cars come in from the plant with parts strewn all over the back seat that someone just didn't feel like assembling that particular day. I've had friends over the years tell me all kinds of (personal experience) stories about the abuses (by the workers) in union shops.

That's the fucked part. In non-union, it's bosses fucking over the employees. In union, it's union members attacking other union members. Come on man. This is like black on black crime. We gotta stick together, not fight.

"Stop working so hard. You're making the union look bad!"
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,812
10,346
136
The problem is not the line in Washington.

It is the fact that the union looses some of its strike leverage by having a line operating outside of its control.

right, but the union doesn't own the plane. boeing does. the union is providing the labor to build the plane. why can't boeing move it somewhere else to another labor source, as long as nothing is broken contractually? and as the article stated, the washington plant was a *temporary* assembly site, with SC being the primary site.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/sites/all/play_music/play_full.php?play=403

i believe it used to be a video but now it's just audio.
wait past the 45 sec plea for donations for the full cast.

summary from amazon review:

nevermind that the pontiac vibe is the exact same car as the toyota matrix, which is what NUMMI primarily built (the vibe and matrix were built side by side):whiste:
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
Boeing could split out its commercial from the military.

Commercial moves overseas.

Burroughs did this when they sucked up Sperry and became Unisys.
They had to spin off certain Defense elements to avoid conflicts.

Look up ITAR, lots of commercial aerospace is export controlled. Although, finally assembly usually doesn't fall under ITAR.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
not Toyota's fault GM managers and UAW members have the learning capacity and work ethic of a welfare recipient.

Can you not read anything more than what you want? NUMMI workers were UAW, and they learned from Toyota, things that their own arrogant GM management never did figure out, and built good cars in a profitable enterprise for Toyota.

Union labor isn't the problem- arrogant & ignorant management is the problem for American manufacturers. Japanese management knows how to inspire loyalty and an honest work ethic among their workers, who have enormous feedback mechanisms in place so that their input can be used to improve the process and the product. At GM, they don't even want to hear it, and have no sort of feedback mechanisms at all.

In the words of W. Edwards Deming-

The worker is not the problem. The problem is at the top! Management!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

His concepts helped make the Japanese into a manufacturing powerhouse, but they're still ignored in this country.

Must be that "American Exceptionalism" at work, huh?

Freakin' boneheads.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
This is the backbone of the Democratic party. Lazy union workers. Welfare queens.

Libtards can't be allowed to run a country.

Why don't you just chant USA! USA! USA! whenever you encounter opinions not to your liking? You could cover your ears & close your eyes, too, so as to avoid any sort of contaminants entering your precious little consciousness...
 

alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,710
0
76
Why don't you just chant USA! USA! USA! whenever you encounter opinions not to your liking? You could cover your ears & close your eyes, too, so as to avoid any sort of contaminants entering your precious little consciousness...

GM management didn't learn its lesson and should have failed. Your president bailed them out.
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,050
3
0
Can you not read anything more than what you want? NUMMI workers were UAW, and they learned from Toyota, things that their own arrogant GM management never did figure out, and built good cars in a profitable enterprise for Toyota.

Union labor isn't the problem- arrogant & ignorant management is the problem for American manufacturers. Japanese management knows how to inspire loyalty and an honest work ethic among their workers, who have enormous feedback mechanisms in place so that their input can be used to improve the process and the product. At GM, they don't even want to hear it, and have no sort of feedback mechanisms at all.

In the words of W. Edwards Deming-



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

His concepts helped make the Japanese into a manufacturing powerhouse, but they're still ignored in this country.

Must be that "American Exceptionalism" at work, huh?

Freakin' boneheads.

so now it's the company's responsibility to instill work ethic in me, not my personal responsibility.
not to do something to the best of my abilities because it will reflect well upon myself.

i've been doing it wrong my whole life.
 

alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,710
0
76
so now it's the company's responsibility to instill work ethic in me, not my personal responsibility.
not to do something to the best of my abilities because it will reflect well upon myself.

i've been doing it wrong my whole life.

What's funny is that libtards like Jhhnn believe that it's OK for workers to do some things that are downright dangerous for the consumer if the problems they intentionally created were not caught. What if a family of 4 crashed their car because they intentionally f---ed up the car on the assembly line? Management is definitely to blame (that's why GM should have failed), but the workers have no pride in their work and did shit because they were protected by the union and can get away with it.

With that said, I feel perfectly safe flying in Boeing airplanes. I'm not aware of the problems that UAW and GM created at Boeing plants, other than strikes. If someone has evidence to prove the contrary, please enlighten me...
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
so now it's the company's responsibility to instill work ethic in me, not my personal responsibility.
not to do something to the best of my abilities because it will reflect well upon myself.

i've been doing it wrong my whole life.

Heh. At GM, the beatings will continue until morale improves.

It's management's responsibility to get the most out of their workforce- empowerment & inspiration are part of it. Recognizing that & exploiting it have been key elements of Japanese success. Not doing so is a key element of the inability to compete with them.

Too deep? Apparently so...
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,050
3
0
Heh. At GM, the beatings will continue until morale improves.

It's management's responsibility to get the most out of their workforce- empowerment & inspiration are part of it. Recognizing that & exploiting it have been key elements of Japanese success. Not doing so is a key element of the inability to compete with them.

Too deep? Apparently so...

no, it's cultural. japanese culture preaches respect for others.

lose your wallet anywhere in Japan and you will find it intact, with all belongings including cash and cc's inside.

in america, some people will loot and pillage if given the slightest opportunity (katrina, LA riots after sporting events).
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
no, it's cultural. japanese culture preaches respect for others.

lose your wallet anywhere in Japan and you will find it intact, with all belongings including cash and cc's inside.

in america, some people will loot and pillage if given the slightest opportunity (katrina, LA riots after sporting events).

So what? The subject is work. It's your own link to Toyota's success with American workers at NUMMI that discredits you. Japanese management style builds workforces & companies, american management style just loots them.
 

alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,710
0
76
I never claimed anything to the contrary It was a done deal before Obama took the oath, and he followed through on the promises of his deregulating free market predecessor, who'd done a mighty fast U-turn when confronted with the consequences of what his own policy had wrought.

But but but BOOOOOSH! I bet you are also OK with your president signing the Patriot Act just because he is a Democrat.
 
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