Boeing vs. the Union (and the NLRB)

[HumblePie]

Let's condense this down into a summary (since this is the second thread on this topic).

Boeing wants to build 2nd production line in North Carolina. National Labor Relations Board says there's no problem with that. NLRB says there IS a problem with why they WANT to do it.

Read that again. I don't care if you're a Democrat or Republican. Read it again.

The action is legal. Their REASONING is not legal.

Are you getting this guys? The ACTION is legal. It's ok to build and start production. You CAN NOT CLAIM that it's because of the Union though.

Is everyone getting this? The NLRB is trying to control what Boeing executives are thinking. They are ASKING them to lie to everyone. It's ok to build... just don't tell us the real reason. If you say the word Union, then it's illegal.

That is the most fucked up double-think bullshit that has every come out of our government, and it's being fully supported by a particular party. There's no justification. This isn't about left and right. It's about breaking all new ground in controlling what people say and think. The action is legal, but the reasoning is not. Holy. Shit.

LOL yep!

Also, the NLRB stated that if Beoing had cited that the reason for the opening of the new plant for from Economic pressures then that would be a legal justification. But citing it is from economic pressures due to union strikes is not legal according to the NLRB. Pure stupidity.

This is going to come down to the courts fighting over what I just said. Can you include to word Union and Strikes in your comments over making business decisions or not?

 

[werepossum]

Let's condense this down into a summary (since this is the second thread on this topic).

Boeing wants to build 2nd production line in North Carolina. National Labor Relations Board says there's no problem with that. NLRB says there IS a problem with why they WANT to do it.

Read that again. I don't care if you're a Democrat or Republican. Read it again.

The action is legal. Their REASONING is not legal.

Are you getting this guys? The ACTION is legal. It's ok to build and start production. You CAN NOT CLAIM that it's because of the Union though.

Is everyone getting this? The NLRB is trying to control what Boeing executives are thinking. They are ASKING them to lie to everyone. It's ok to build... just don't tell us the real reason. If you say the word Union, then it's illegal.

That is the most fucked up double-think bullshit that has every come out of our government, and it's being fully supported by a particular party. There's no justification. This isn't about left and right. It's about breaking all new ground in controlling what people say and think. The action is legal, but the reasoning is not. Holy. Shit.

Indeed. Although I suspect that if it were not this, it would be something else.

If we do not allow Boeing to operate their South Carolina plant because they don't want even more crippling strikes, then we deserve to lose our manufacturing and slide into oblivion. No nation that insane deserves to prosper.

 

[alphatarget1]

I have no problem with private sector unions for the most part. Boeing was making boatloads of money and I think it's fair that their workers get to negotiate for their share of the profits that they helped the company make.

But this is insanity that the government is forcing a company to do (or in this case, not do) something that would create more American jobs. Democrats want to protect their union constituency.

Like someone has said on this board- Non-union employees in foreign car manufacturers in the US get paid decent wages and they don't even want to unionize. I wonder why Toyota decided to finally quit on NUMMI. Enviro-nazis in the People's Republik of Kalifornia is definitely to blame, but I bet UAW's presence also factored into their decision as well. ~5k good paying jobs gone.

You run a country like you run a blue state, and you are doomed for economic ruin.

 

[Fenixgoon]

if the washington assembly line is temporary, what's the problem?

also, just because SC is right to work doesn't mean the workers there *can't* unionize, correct? theoretically the plant *could* end up union, RTW just means it is less likely to.

IMO i have no issue. people have a right to strike, absolutely. but if you want to move your operations elsewhere, i don't see the issue. the way i interpreted the article was not "we'll move if you strike" but "we're moving because we're tired of you striking."

two different things.

 

[senseamp]

Is it going to be safe to fly in a Boeing built in North Carolina by cheap labor?

 

[Zorba]

TWA closed down the HUB in St. Louis, MO and moved it with no problem. This happens all the time. It is just a business decision. Maybe they should close their whole business and move to a right to work state.

TWA operated its hub in STL until they were purchased by American Airlines. American Airlines started to downsize the STL hub, because it already operated major hubs at Dallas/Fort-Worth and Chicago. The STL operation was redundant. Although AA bought TWA about a decade ago, STL is still a minor hub for AA as well as a top tier field maintenance location. Furthermore, all employees at the STL hub were offered the opportunity to relocate per the guidelines in their respective union contracts. The downsizing of this hub was in no way retaliation against the Unions.

As an aside, the airlines operate under a whole different set of Union laws than most companies. Airlines unions are under the railway labor act, which is much different than the National Labor Relations Act.

 

[halik]

Is it going to be safe to fly in a Boeing built in North Carolina by cheap labor?

Are you somehow insinuating that the purpose of the union was to make sure the product made was safe?

 

[Red Dawn]

Is it going to be safe to fly in a Boeing built in North Carolina by cheap labor?

North Carolina yes. South Carolina, Alabama and Mississippi probably not.

 

[EagleKeeper]

if the washington assembly line is temporary, what's the problem?

also, just because SC is right to work doesn't mean the workers there *can't* unionize, correct? theoretically the plant *could* end up union, RTW just means it is less likely to.

IMO i have no issue. people have a right to strike, absolutely. but if you want to move your operations elsewhere, i don't see the issue. the way i interpreted the article was not "we'll move if you strike" but "we're moving because we're tired of you striking."

two different things.

The problem is not the line in Washington.

It is the fact that the union looses some of its strike leverage by having a line operating outside of its control.

 

[Bateluer]

I'm going to side with Boeing on this one. Unions are obsolete.

 

[Red Dawn]

I'm going to side with Boeing on this one. The Middle Class is obsolete.

:whiste:

 

[Bateluer]

:whiste:

The reasons unions were originally created are not applicable any more. Their functions were taken over by the Department of Labor and other government organizations, not to mention the Internet and social networks can utterly destroy a business these days.

Removing the budget sucking Unions would actually greatly benefit the middle class, by allowing the business to actually expand and spend money on R&D rather than constantly spending legal fees battling union leaders looking for ever increasing handouts.

 

[Zorba]

Are you somehow insinuating that the purpose of the union was to make sure the product made was safe?

There are thousands of very experienced people in Seattle, while pretty much everyone in SC is very green. I've seen experienced versus inexperienced and that can be very scary, union or non-union.

 

[halik]

There are thousands of very experienced people in Seattle, while pretty much everyone in SC is very green. I've seen experienced versus inexperienced and that can be very scary, union or non-union.

I'm pretty sure they can find machinists anywhere. It's not like the aero-engineers are union...

 

[Red Dawn]

The reasons unions were originally created are not applicable any more. Their functions were taken over by the Department of Labor and other government organizations, not to mention the Internet and social networks can utterly destroy a business these days.

Removing the budget sucking Unions would actually greatly benefit the middle class, by allowing the business to actually expand and spend money on R&D rather than constantly spending legal fees battling union leaders looking for ever increasing handouts.

Plus they can screw over their employees without having to answer to the Unions.

 

[Zorba]

I'm pretty sure they can find machinists anywhere. It's not like the aero-engineers are union...

I was talking about mechanics, if you think anyone off the street can work aero-structures and systems you have never worked in Aerospace. I work at a facility with thousands of mechanics and there is a massive difference between the experienced and inexperienced.

Boeing engineers are Union as a matter of fact, so are many of their largest suppliers' engineers. There also isn't a vast pool of experienced aerospace engineers just sitting around SC waiting for Boeing to decide to build a facility.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Is it going to be safe to fly in a Boeing built in North Carolina by cheap labor?

LMAO, you should see the documentary about the GM/UAW and their work ethic.
drunk on the job, purposely left bolts undone, sleeping on the job...

 

[Lizardman]

http://www.speea.org/index.html
The Society of Professional Engineering Employees in Aerospace (SPEEA)


Damn you ain't joking about Boeing engineers beign union.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Is it going to be safe to fly in a Boeing built in North Carolina by cheap labor?

If all of the manufacturing processes, including quality control / quality assurance are in place (that they use in their expensive labor plants), yes.

 

[FerrelGeek]

LMAO, you should see the documentary about the GM/UAW and their work ethic.
drunk on the job, purposely left bolts undone, sleeping on the job...

But, but, but, you get what you pay for!!!! Right???

 

[GTaudiophile]

More and more airlines are outsourcing maintenance to China at $2/hour.

If I were Boeing, I'd just fire them all, pack up my company, and relocate to Beijing. It would be worth it to give a nice big FU to American unions.

 

[alphatarget1]

I was talking about mechanics, if you think anyone off the street can work aero-structures and systems you have never worked in Aerospace. I work at a facility with thousands of mechanics and there is a massive difference between the experienced and inexperienced.

Boeing engineers are Union as a matter of fact, so are many of their largest suppliers' engineers. There also isn't a vast pool of experienced aerospace engineers just sitting around SC waiting for Boeing to decide to build a facility.

How hard would it be to pick some experienced workers and say, "hey we like your work and loyalty to the company, here is a promotion with more $$$, quit your union we'd like you to relocate to SC to train people?"

 

[Zorba]

How hard would it be to pick some experienced workers and say, "hey we like your work and loyalty to the company, here is a promotion with more $$$, quit your union we'd like you to relocate to SC to train people?"

I think the whole point of moving to SC was to get away from pro-union people, therefore relocating union mechanics wouldn't be the best idea in the world. They would take their promotion, move, then form a new IAM local and then the new facility would be Unionized just like Seattle.

 

[Zebo]

if the washington assembly line is temporary, what's the problem?

also, just because SC is right to work doesn't mean the workers there *can't* unionize, correct? theoretically the plant *could* end up union, RTW just means it is less likely to.

IMO i have no issue. people have a right to strike, absolutely. but if you want to move your operations elsewhere, i don't see the issue. the way i interpreted the article was not "we'll move if you strike" but "we're moving because we're tired of you striking."

two different things.

They can but scabs can stay on & not unionize & not contribute which effectively weakens collective bargaining to a good degree. Things have to get really bad before workers will unionize.

 

[Zebo]

More and more airlines are outsourcing maintenance to China at $2/hour.

If I were Boeing, I'd just fire them all, pack up my company, and relocate to Beijing. It would be worth it to give a nice big FU to American unions.

National security problems congress won't let them or they would.