Boiler blockage?

[slackerinabox]

Argh, I hate this drama I'm going through with my boiler (gas) - brand new, but I've had 4 techs come out to try to fix it...

We're not getting any heat (well, there's heat upstairs and not downstairs) and, the last tech showed me that, when bleeding the boiler, the water is VERY choppy and eventually slows to a trickle. He said there's a blockage in the line and said that I'd need to contact a private contractor to resolve it (I called national grid's techs, since I have a maintenance plan). I tried to bleed it myself and the problem persists - water spills out at first for a few moments, then trickles.

Any advice, before I spend any more money?

Thanks!

pics: http://picasaweb.google.com/samsundaram/Boiler?feat=directlink

 

[slackerinabox]

Is this a hot water or steam system?

Hot water system. And thanks for replying!

It's 45 degrees today and has been moderate for the past week (NYC), so I sincerely doubt it's ice. And there's house and boiler are brand new

 

[slackerinabox]

This is the boiler: http://www.newyorkerboiler.com/pdf/CG-C%20layout 1-06.pdf

 

[Rubycon]

Is this a hot water or steam system?

 

[Rubycon]

That's was weird!

Anyways are all your circulators working? Zones (aquastats, etc.) working? That would be the first thing to check. Should not be a complicated system.

 

[FoBoT]

if the boiler is brand new, is the installation under warranty? or is just the boiler new, but the piping in question is old?

 

[Jodell88]

Time warps are back?!

 

[FoBoT]

Time warps are back?!

no, there is a deleted post, it shows for moderators, but you probably can't see it

there is NO TIME WARP

 

[Dirigible]

And there NEVER WERE time warps! Anyone says otherwise will be banned!

 

[x-alki]

I am wondering if the circulating pump is working right. Did the upstairs and downstairs heat propely last year?

Check to see if there are any zone valves on the pipes coming out of the furnace or on any radiators. Could be there is one shut off somewhere.

 

[slackerinabox]

I am wondering if the circulating pump is working right. Did the upstairs and downstairs heat propely last year?

Check to see if there are any zone valves on the pipes coming out of the furnace or on any radiators. Could be there is one shut off somewhere.

Hey,

Thanks again for teh reply- the house is literrally brand new, but the system was inspected. The odd thing is, 4 visits from a tech later, we've gone from uneven heat to no heat at all. Also, the first tech bled the boiler in front of me, and everything was perfect. The last two bled it and there's a blockage, I can see it myself, but the original problem was un even heat.

The unit does have a warranty but New Yorker Boilers is currently closed for the Holidays. I escalated the issue with National Grid and am wainting for a call back. I'm just terrified of calling another private HVAC contractor - my first call was to one and they charged me $500 to basically just bleed the line! That's why I got the maintenance contract. If this is not covered, I may not be able to make the mortgage if this is a 4 or 5 figure repair. Sure, it may get reimbursed since I have an escrow but....

And I called my lawyer, he's on vacation as well.

edit: also, there's no control on the actual baseboard heaters, I've checked.

Is the cir. pump near the boiler? What can I do to test it?

 

[Number1]

I had problems with air in the lines last year and some of the zone would not work. I installed automatic air bleeders on all the zones and the problem is gone.

Guide to air bleeders.

 

[Number1]

2 zone system?
one circulator?
Are all your zone valves working? DOes the pump kick in when the valves open?
Are the valves installed the right way? (I had one installed reversed on my system)

If all this checks OK and there is no air in the line what could possibly be blocking your line?

These are simple systems, you should be able to fix this yourself instead of spending thousands.
Pictures of your system would be useful.

 

[x-alki]

The pump would be on left side, according to the diagram. I dont know if there is a way for you to check it though. Only advice I can give is to see if the motor on the pump is running. I'd be carefull not to touch it with your bare hand, it could burn you.

It's been 15 years since I had a hot water heat system...I'm trying to go off my memory.

 

[slackerinabox]

The pump would be on left side, according to the diagram. I dont know if there is a way for you to check it though. Only advice I can give is to see if the motor on the pump is running. I'd be carefull not to touch it with your bare hand, it could burn you.

It's been 15 years since I had a hot water heat system...I'm trying to go off my memory.

saw the pump - it's very hot, similar to the 2nd boiler (working fine, 2 fam house)

 

[slackerinabox]

Went down there and took some pics:
http://picasaweb.google.com/samsundaram/Boiler?feat=directlink

One oddity I noted was that a certain meter is red lining on my faulty boiler and not on my working boiler. I have no idea what that means, but took a picture of it

 

[Rubycon]

LOL, matches!

 

[x-alki]

Not sure about the gauge. Have you checked the manual to see if the limit switches are set right? If I remember correctly there should be a high and low setting.

I wonder if your expansion tank is functioning right. It could be water logged or have a hole in the bladder.

 

[caddlad]

Your water looks to be 200deg. Thats hella hot! I run mine (coal boiler) at 140-160 deg.

What is the pressure reading? Just below the temp, I cant make it out on the gauge.

Sounds like you still have air in the lines. Time for bleeders on the high point of each zone.

 

[Hippiewan]

1. Do not try to fix this yourself, you do not have the expertise or experience and could end up hurting yourself seriously.
2. caddlad is right. If your water temp is 200 degrees, that is set way too hot, you have copper and pex tubing there is no reason for this to be set that high other than this is how it comes set from the factory and they forgot to change it.
3. Looks like you have zone valves, hard to tell from your pictures but if you have heat in one area and not in another, it is probably zoned, do you have more than one thermostat, if you do it is zoned.
4. Them being on vacation is no excuse. Any reputable heating contractor will have a 24 hour emergency contact number. Raise hell until you get one! There is no reason that you should be cold, especially with a new home and new installation.
5. You only have one pump, if you have heat at all the pump in working fine.
6. This can not be fixed by the fine minds on AnandTech. Raise hell until the people that screwed up in the first place fix their mistake.
7. Have them fix the working boiler while they are there. See all the rust coming down that pipe and oozing over the elbow like candle wax. That is not normal, that is called a leak. A new install should never look like that. I don't care what they say, that is a leak and needs to be repaired.

Sorry to be less than helpful but that is as helpful as I could be.

 

[slackerinabox]

1. Do not try to fix this yourself, you do not have the expertise or experience and could end up hurting yourself seriously.
2. caddlad is right. If your water temp is 200 degrees, that is set way too hot, you have copper and pex tubing there is no reason for this to be set that high other than this is how it comes set from the factory and they forgot to change it.
3. Looks like you have zone valves, hard to tell from your pictures but if you have heat in one area and not in another, it is probably zoned, do you have more than one thermostat, if you do it is zoned.
4. Them being on vacation is no excuse. Any reputable heating contractor will have a 24 hour emergency contact number. Raise hell until you get one! There is no reason that you should be cold, especially with a new home and new installation.
5. You only have one pump, if you have heat at all the pump in working fine.
6. This can not be fixed by the fine minds on AnandTech. Raise hell until the people that screwed up in the first place fix their mistake.
7. Have them fix the working boiler while they are there. See all the rust coming down that pipe and oozing over the elbow like candle wax. That is not normal, that is called a leak. A new install should never look like that. I don't care what they say, that is a leak and needs to be repaired.

Sorry to be less than helpful but that is as helpful as I could be.

You've actually been very helpful - I appreciate the info and am glad to be able to make a more informed visit from the service crew. I still haven't been able to reach either my lawyer or the manufacturer, but have an appointment with an HVAC guy tonight.

I wonder if it's just debris in the lines - our faucets were running very slow as well until I just removed the faucet tap/filter things and ran the water for a few minutes.. There was copper and dirt clogging up everything! Is that a possibility here?

 

[Rubycon]

You've actually been very helpful - I appreciate the info and am glad to be able to make a more informed visit from the service crew. I still haven't been able to reach either my lawyer or the manufacturer, but have an appointment with an HVAC guy tonight.

I wonder if it's just debris in the lines - our faucets were running very slow as well until I just removed the faucet tap/filter things and ran the water for a few minutes.. There was copper and dirt clogging up everything! Is that a possibility here?

Since the other service person mentioned blockage you should have your (boiler) water tested. If the alkalinity is too high or too much CO2 is present deposits can cause blockages, valves to stick, etc. The system may need local acidification which is definitely a job for a trained pro!

If it's really cold outside your water temperatures may be higher due to a reset type thermostat with an outside bulb. Definitely have someone familiar with boiler operation look over the system. Even though the boiler is new the pipes are not!

 

[Sea Moose]

I think your getting water in the proton neuralgic catheters. The only way to fix this is imbuing a hammer with the power of voodoo and smacking the hot water system. I might be wrong tho....