Bonds at it again...this time angering Babe Ruth fans

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: Kiyup

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Staley8 I couldn't find anything on this so I hope it isn't a repost, but not only does Bonds act like a jackass when not wanting to participate in the home run derby, he basically says he is going to "wipe out" Babe Ruth. "On Monday, Bonds said: ``Willie's number is always the one that I've strived for. And if it does happen, the only number I care about is Babe Ruth's. Because as a left-handed hitter, I wiped him out. That's it. And in the baseball world, Babe Ruth's everything, right? I got his slugging percentage and I'll take his home runs and that's it. Don't talk about him no more.'' Aparently, he later said it was a tribute to Babe....I'm not sure which side to believe here Linky to the Story

But the only drugs Ruth was on was Alchol, and I am sure that doe snot help perfromance. Now bonds shoudl have a * beside all his stats. Or tell him to stay off the juice for a couple of seasons and see how he stacks up.

HAHAHAHA the old Steroids accusations.

here are some thoughts regarding juiced balls and steroids. This is DEFINITELY a tired and worn out argument. 1. Can you explain Roger Maris? some people wanted to accuse him of using a juiced ball. again compare his one season with the rest of his career. 2. Babe's first 2 or 3 seasons as a full time batter saw him with under 30 hr / season 3. Barry had 37 HR during the strike shortened season, if they had played it out, he likely would have hit 50+. To imply that he only started showing power recently is just plain ignorant. he has only had 3 seasons or so in his career with fewer than 30 hr's. 4. barry doesn't rely on power as much as fast hands, good eye and good pitch selection, Guess what Steroids doesn't help with ANY of those attributes. 5. IF he was on steriods than he must have AMAZING mental toughness to get as many walks as he had the last 3 seasons. so which is it? is he on steroids and is the most patient man in the history of the world or is he just a great player that got stronger with age (btw, the later is much more likely than the former).

Why are you so on Bonds dick to be in denial that he's not juicing himself up?

Agreed for the most part. I'll give bonds this, he's an amazing hitter. That absolutely cannot be argued. If you give him something near the strike zone chances are he'll nail it. And obviously, steriods would not help with that. Well, unless you consider the extra bat speed he'd gain from the extra strength but whatever.

But, the whole steroids argument is moot when comparing todays players to the players of yesterday. Players today have a HUGE advantage in the levels of fitness they can attain even without steroids. Trying to argue with that will only make you look stupid. They also have a similarly large advantage in their bat, the balls, the smaller parks, etc.

Oh yah, when barry also wins 90+ games as a starting pitcher you come talk to me then. That's what the babe did after all.

hmmmm, i wonder why Ruth only pitched for 4 seasons or so?? hmmmm, let me thing about that. hmmmmm

a guy that can hit 30+ hr per season in the OF or have him pitch and only bat every 5th game. HMMMMM.

that is like such an asnine argument. Who give a fvck what he did as a pitcher, what he contributed as a batter was OBVIOUSLY MUCH more valuable than what he could contribute as a pitcher, hence he DIDN'T pitch once they learned what he was capable of.

who in their right mind would have Bonds Pitch, no matter HOW good he could have been, given his offensive prowess.

A little tired are you? I guess the fact that I was comparing a guy who played two positions very well to a guy who can only play one and is only slightly more than average at it went over your head. Sorry about that. I'll try to make is simpler next time. In fact, let me do it for you right now.

Bonds Ruth
60 years of science to build his body Steaks, alcohol, and ass to build his boiler
Juiced ball Softer ball
Juiced bat Normal bat
Launching pads like Coors Canaveral 380+/- down the line
Plays one position slightly better than average Played two positions very well
162 game seasons 154 game seasons

Hopefully you get the idea by now.

Btw, back when Ruth played pitchers weren't so over protected and they didn't have five man rotations. But, you've already shown you lack any historical knowledge of the game so no big surprise there.

Wrong you just can't read.

I never said Bonds was better than ruth. read thru the whole damn thread. NO WHERE do i put bonds in the top 5 players in the game. I clearly stated that Ruth and Cobb were in the top 5 all time.

so don't even give me this sh!t.

And if it makes you feel better, change "who in their right mind would have Bonds Pitch, no matter HOW good he could have been, given his offensive prowess" to "who in their right mind would have Ruth Pitch, no matter HOW good he could have been, given his offensive prowess"

all the same to me.

btw, saying that bonds played his position slightly above average shows you to be ignorant.

 

[skace]

People that push themselves to their limits often sound like this. It is his drive to be better than others that makes him better. Shrug. You can never surpass what you idolize.

 

[Passner]

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: Kiyup

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Staley8 I couldn't find anything on this so I hope it isn't a repost, but not only does Bonds act like a jackass when not wanting to participate in the home run derby, he basically says he is going to "wipe out" Babe Ruth. "On Monday, Bonds said: ``Willie's number is always the one that I've strived for. And if it does happen, the only number I care about is Babe Ruth's. Because as a left-handed hitter, I wiped him out. That's it. And in the baseball world, Babe Ruth's everything, right? I got his slugging percentage and I'll take his home runs and that's it. Don't talk about him no more.'' Aparently, he later said it was a tribute to Babe....I'm not sure which side to believe here Linky to the Story

But the only drugs Ruth was on was Alchol, and I am sure that doe snot help perfromance. Now bonds shoudl have a * beside all his stats. Or tell him to stay off the juice for a couple of seasons and see how he stacks up.

HAHAHAHA the old Steroids accusations.

here are some thoughts regarding juiced balls and steroids. This is DEFINITELY a tired and worn out argument. 1. Can you explain Roger Maris? some people wanted to accuse him of using a juiced ball. again compare his one season with the rest of his career. 2. Babe's first 2 or 3 seasons as a full time batter saw him with under 30 hr / season 3. Barry had 37 HR during the strike shortened season, if they had played it out, he likely would have hit 50+. To imply that he only started showing power recently is just plain ignorant. he has only had 3 seasons or so in his career with fewer than 30 hr's. 4. barry doesn't rely on power as much as fast hands, good eye and good pitch selection, Guess what Steroids doesn't help with ANY of those attributes. 5. IF he was on steriods than he must have AMAZING mental toughness to get as many walks as he had the last 3 seasons. so which is it? is he on steroids and is the most patient man in the history of the world or is he just a great player that got stronger with age (btw, the later is much more likely than the former).

Why are you so on Bonds dick to be in denial that he's not juicing himself up?

Agreed for the most part. I'll give bonds this, he's an amazing hitter. That absolutely cannot be argued. If you give him something near the strike zone chances are he'll nail it. And obviously, steriods would not help with that. Well, unless you consider the extra bat speed he'd gain from the extra strength but whatever.

But, the whole steroids argument is moot when comparing todays players to the players of yesterday. Players today have a HUGE advantage in the levels of fitness they can attain even without steroids. Trying to argue with that will only make you look stupid. They also have a similarly large advantage in their bat, the balls, the smaller parks, etc.

Oh yah, when barry also wins 90+ games as a starting pitcher you come talk to me then. That's what the babe did after all.

hmmmm, i wonder why Ruth only pitched for 4 seasons or so?? hmmmm, let me thing about that. hmmmmm

a guy that can hit 30+ hr per season in the OF or have him pitch and only bat every 5th game. HMMMMM.

that is like such an asnine argument. Who give a fvck what he did as a pitcher, what he contributed as a batter was OBVIOUSLY MUCH more valuable than what he could contribute as a pitcher, hence he DIDN'T pitch once they learned what he was capable of.

who in their right mind would have Bonds Pitch, no matter HOW good he could have been, given his offensive prowess.

A little tired are you? I guess the fact that I was comparing a guy who played two positions very well to a guy who can only play one and is only slightly more than average at it went over your head. Sorry about that. I'll try to make is simpler next time. In fact, let me do it for you right now.

Bonds Ruth
60 years of science to build his body Steaks, alcohol, and ass to build his boiler
Juiced ball Softer ball
Juiced bat Normal bat
Launching pads like Coors Canaveral 380+/- down the line
Plays one position slightly better than average Played two positions very well
162 game seasons 154 game seasons

Hopefully you get the idea by now.

Btw, back when Ruth played pitchers weren't so over protected and they didn't have five man rotations. But, you've already shown you lack any historical knowledge of the game so no big surprise there.

Dude, get your arguments straight. Ever look at Baseball Prospectus or Total Baseball? According to those, Bonds is one of the five best Left Fielders ever. Through his career, he has been worth nearly 20 wins more than an average left fielder with his glove alone. This is despite the fact that he often plays through ankle strains that hinder his range, the most important thing for a left fielder. Bonds doesn't just play one position average, he plays it historically great, like he does everything else.

Ruth was an average fielder at best. By 1930, he was a human sack of fat chugging down the cavernous Yankee Stadium right field while full of alcohol. He was a drag on his team in the field the last 5 years of his career, and he wasn't anything to write home about beforehand.

Ruth also was not an amazing pitcher. His ERA+, while good, was not phenomenal. Within his era, it was only the 13th best, which means that if he kept that up for 15 years, he would have been a decent hall of Famer. I hardly think one should get credit when that same time could have been spent as the best RF/LF in baseball. Again, sheer shtoos (for those who speak yiddish.)

Those advantages you speak of, those are available to all players, thus rendering the point moot. All players in bonds' era have bandbox's for stadiums (sans Comerica) I don't see everyone slugging .863. In fact, Bonds plays in THE best pitchers park of the last 25 years. It depresses offense by 11%, which is NEVER seen. In addition, it affects Bonds more than anyone, as he is a lefty hitter, and Pac Bell depresses homers by leftys by nearly 50%. Why do you think 85% of the splash hits are by Bonds! He is just that much better than everyone else.

Why are you such an ignorant critic that you want to defend someone who faced weaker competition, and who died decades before you were born, at the expense of a man who is dominating the game, when it is now an international game, and is doing it like no one has before!

Some people just stand as hallmarks of idiocy!

 

[bolinger]

Bonds can talk sh!t to Jesus for all I care, as long as he can back it up by walking on water.

 

[LeeTJ]

I hardly think one should get credit when that same time could have been spent as the best RF/LF in baseball.

Thank you. i think this makes my point as well as everything else you posted.

but basically, WHO in their right mind would EVER have a bonds, ruth, Mcgwire (tho not as good as the former 2) Sosa pitch when they are soo much better scoring runs?

 

[LeeTJ]

What's Ironic is, these same idiots that like to harp on what Bonds does OFF the field probably think that I take the game too seriously.


GET REAL. I take it for what it is BASEBALL, a GAME, nothing more.

it's those of you morons that are always harping on what an athlete does off the field that take the game too seriously.

 

[Passner]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ
What's Ironic is, these same idiots that like to harp on what Bonds does OFF the field probably think that I take the game too seriously.


GET REAL. I take it for what it is BASEBALL, a GAME, nothing more.

it's those of you morons that are always harping on what an athlete does off the field that take the game too seriously.

True dat! If you want role models, sports isn't the place to turn. Teach your kids to enjoy sports, but idolize those who warrant the affection, thats the way to do it.

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Ok, I'll admit that he is a good fielder. I just don't like him that much. Plus the mental image of him throwing that whiffle ball to try to nail Sid Breme (sp?) still sticks in my mind. Anyway, Pasner made quite the interesting statement with his last post.

Why are you such an ignorant critic that you want to defend someone who faced weaker competition, and who died decades before you were born, at the expense of a man who is dominating the game, when it is now an international game, and is doing it like no one has before![/i]

Seriously, was that an honest comment?

You're telling me Barry is dominating the game more than Ruth did? We're talking about the same Ruth who revolutionized baseball right? The same Ruth who hit more HR's than entire teams right? Are you really serious?

Besides, here's the part I really don't get. When people try to bash Ruth the only thing they can turn to is he didn't play the best competition available. That's the only argument you guys have. That's his one advantage over todays players. Now let's look at his disadvantages. Juiced bat, juiced ball, juiced park, decades of improvement in physical fitness, season that's 8 games longer, etc. You honestly think that the babes one advantage over todays players is is greater that all his disadvantages? I really doubt it. But you're entitled to you opinion.

Btw, you said that the advantages bonds has are available to all players in bonds era. Well, thank you for stating the obvious. But we aren't comparing bonds to todays players. We're comparing him to someone who played back in the 20's/30's so I don't see what the point of your comment is.

 

[Passner]

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl
Ok, I'll admit that he is a good fielder. I just don't like him that much. Plus the mental image of him throwing that whiffle ball to try to nail Sid Breme (sp?) still sticks in my mind. Anyway, Pasner made quite the interesting statement with his last post.

Why are you such an ignorant critic that you want to defend someone who faced weaker competition, and who died decades before you were born, at the expense of a man who is dominating the game, when it is now an international game, and is doing it like no one has before![/i]

Seriously, was that an honest comment?

You're telling me Barry is dominating the game more than Ruth did? We're talking about the same Ruth who revolutionized baseball right? The same Ruth who hit more HR's than entire teams right? Are you really serious?

Besides, here's the part I really don't get. When people try to bash Ruth the only thing they can turn to is he didn't play the best competition available. That's the only argument you guys have. That's his one advantage over todays players. Now let's look at his disadvantages. Juiced bat, juiced ball, juiced park, decades of improvement in physical fitness, season that's 8 games longer, etc. You honestly think that the babes one advantage over todays players is is greater that all his disadvantages? I really doubt it. But you're entitled to you opinion.

Btw, you said that the advantages bonds has are available to all players in bonds era. Well, thank you for stating the obvious. But we aren't comparing bonds to todays players. We're comparing him to someone who played back in the 20's/30's so I don't see what the point of your comment is.

Uh, you conveniently leave out the fact that pitchers today also have much better tools at their disposal, thereby neutralizing the effects of hitters' training tools.

Ruth may have outhomered teams, but his 1920-1921 is no match for Bonds' 2001-2002. Ruth may have hit more homers, but it was still an offensively charged environment. Back then, they did it with more singles and doubles, with league averages that are not seen today. Back then averages in the .390's were something that happened twice a year. Bonds' OPS adjusted for era and park blows Ruth out of the water!

Citing the "stupidity" of the "better competition" argument is in itself sheer stupidity. Just because you can point out a greater NUMBER of differences, that does not translate into a GREATER strength in your arguemnt. African-Americans, at one point, were 50% of the Major Leagues, and a slightly higher percentage of the greats. Then add Latinos, who are NOW close to a third of rosters, not to mention the assorted 2% from other countries makes this a HUGE point. Bonds is likely facing competition that is not simply stronger, it is lightyears ahead of anyone else.

 

[LeeTJ]

Ok, I'll admit that he is a good fielder. I just don't like him that much. Plus the mental image of him throwing that whiffle ball to try to nail Sid Breme (sp?) still sticks in my mind. Anyway, Pasner made quite the interesting statement with his last post.

you see

this is why i express my opinions so strongly about bonds. its fine to not like a player but to deny what he's done just because you don't like him is just plain stupid.

 

[tokamak]

why all the argument about bonds/ruth on the field in this thread? IMO they are two of the greatest, but i dont think bonds should have said what he did. i respect the guy that does his job quietly and appreciates those that came before him. i dislike the guy that feels like he has to brag about his achievements. for however good he is on the field, the truth is that bonds was, is, and always will be a big-time jerk. i think thats the point the original poster was trying to make.

 

[LeeTJ]

Ok, I'll admit that he is a good fielder. I just don't like him that much. Plus the mental image of him throwing that whiffle ball to try to nail Sid Breme (sp?) still sticks in my mind. Anyway, Pasner made quite the interesting statement with his last post.

this is the type of person i'm talking about, earlier he claims that bonds is just above average fielder.

this type of hatred that deny's reality is what annoys me.

hate him all you want, just quit claiming that he is any less than one of the top baseball players of all time. top 10 all time in my opinion.

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Ok, I'll admit that he is a good fielder. I just don't like him that much. Plus the mental image of him throwing that whiffle ball to try to nail Sid Breme (sp?) still sticks in my mind. Anyway, Pasner made quite the interesting statement with his last post.

this is the type of person i'm talking about, earlier he claims that bonds is just above average fielder.

this type of hatred that deny's reality is what annoys me.

hate him all you want, just quit claiming that he is any less than one of the top baseball players of all time. top 10 all time in my opinion.

Maybe you should calm down a bit and try to get all your thoughts out in one post instead making two that talk about the exact same paragraph. Slow down turbo.

Also, you dislike hatred that causes a person to deny reality? Interesting considering the topic and barry's comments with regards to ruth, who he obviously has a good hate on for. So, please criticize him for his dillusional myopic comments please. Thank you.

Btw, I notice you completely glossed over the part of my earlier post where I praised bonds for what a good hitter he is

I guess that helps you make your point better when you're trying to paint me as someone who thinks bonds is nothing better than a mediocre baseball player at best.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Ok, I'll admit that he is a good fielder. I just don't like him that much. Plus the mental image of him throwing that whiffle ball to try to nail Sid Breme (sp?) still sticks in my mind. Anyway, Pasner made quite the interesting statement with his last post.

this is the type of person i'm talking about, earlier he claims that bonds is just above average fielder.

this type of hatred that deny's reality is what annoys me.

hate him all you want, just quit claiming that he is any less than one of the top baseball players of all time. top 10 all time in my opinion.

Maybe you should calm down a bit and try to get all your thoughts out in one post instead making two that talk about the exact same paragraph. Slow down turbo.

Also, you dislike hatred that causes a person to deny reality? Interesting considering the topic and barry's comments with regards to ruth, who he obviously has a good hate on for. So, please criticize him for his dillusional myopic comments please. Thank you.

Btw, I notice you completely glossed over the part of my earlier post where I praised bonds for what a good hitter he is

I guess that helps you make your point better when you're trying to paint me as someone who thinks bonds is nothing better than a mediocre baseball player at best.

both ways you're wrong. you DID say he was just above average as a fielder when pushed on the issue you relented. What you said about him as a hitter is NOT relevant to the issue at hand. OBVIOUSLY only the biggest of fools would say that bonds was just above average as hitter. to say that he was only above average as a fielder was a bit strong but not as ridiculous as saying the other.

again, i could talk about hating bonds for hating ruth, but that isn't my point. my point is, i watch baseball for baseball, not for circus that we call news, but for what i see on the playing field.

so bonds can hate all he wants. doesn't bother me.

and i have NEVER claimed that bonds was anything other than a jerk. everyone is entitled to their opinions regarding his personality.

his statistics however are not as open to interpretation. There is obviously a range of opinions possible here also, bonds could be considered anywhere from top 5 all time to mb top 20, but you have to really stretch it to take him out of the top 50 when you look at his numbers.

no matter how much you hate bonds, his 600+ hrs and 500+ Steals speak clearly for themselves.

 

[Sid59]

tell the Ruth Fans to suck it.

I'm sure RUTH was as rude in his day as well. It's hard to be the man on top and not have your detractors.

 

[Lucky]

Someone noted babe didn't play against black athletes, I think that needs to be repeated.

 

[Jadow]

does Babe Ruth still have a loyal fan following?

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: Jadow
does Babe Ruth still have a loyal fan following?

why wouldn't there be?? he was amazing.

 

[Jadow]

yeah, but people walking around and getting all incensed if someone disses the babe? I mean come on.

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: Jadow
yeah, but people walking around and getting all incensed if someone disses the babe? I mean come on.

New Yorkers?

 

[habib89]

i dunno.. i agree that he doesn't quite have a way with words.. but all he was saying is that babe ruth is the be all and end all in baseball.. beating his records is all that means anything in baseball.. and therefore if he beat his numbers, that's all that matters.. i dunno why anyone took it otherwise