Bonds HR 714

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: mugs
People only seem to care about Bonds's use because it is most obvious. It SHOULD be removed from the game completely.

It's more that Barry Bonds is the one player who has been proven to have taken steroids, and there is no and will never be any consequences. It's also more to the point that those who still defend Bonds use the most illogical of arguements. First is those who say it's never been proven - well it has, and anyone who thinks it hasn't is living in their own little bubble of ignorance. Period. Or the other defense is, "You just can't take away his awards, or you can't go back and take away a certain number of home runs each year." News flash, the Olympics, the NCAA, and any number of other international sports, including track & field as a big one, do that very thing all the time! They take away championships, they erase records from the books!

That's my biggest beef, and probably for a lot of people too, it's blatent cheating defended by ignorance and stupidity.

And then it's those godforsaken ESPN announcers who on a daily basis tell me how I need to feel concerning Barry's record chasing. I've had to give up Baseball Tonight cold turkey because of their unnatural love affair with Barry...

 

[Arschloch]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
That's my biggest beef, and probably for a lot of people too, it's blatent cheating defended by ignorance and stupidity.

This isn't entirely true. Steroids have not always been banned from baseball -- just the past couple of years.

So you can say that it was always against the law, and you can say that it's not in the spirit of baseball or sports (and I'd agree with that 100%), but technically speaking, it wasn't cheating in baseball until very recently.

 

[shortspanishguy]

Steroids served baseball well in the mid to late ?90?s, Super long-ball was the way to bring back the fans after the strike of ?94. So they turned a blind eye to steroid abuse in exchange for getting the fans back sooner rather than later. And now it?s come back to bite them in the ass! A complete farce. And Pete Rose is kept out of baseball because of something called integrity. What a ****** joke!

 

[gocubs2k5]

Other than Larry Bird and Reggie Miller, I hate Barry Bonds more than any other athlete in the world, no matter when they were living or playing sports. I hope he gets to 754, contracts ebola, and dies in 5 days after it. besides, i think it would be interesting to see if somebody could break Sadaharu Oh's home run record of 868 in Japan..thats a hell of a big number to put up

 

[cHeeZeFacTory]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: KLin
Like I said in the other thread, it only took him 835 more at-bats than the babe to do it .

And the Babe probably did it with a killer hangover

Not that i care much about baseball...but imo,

if they didn't walk Bonds a couple billion times over the last couple of years, he'll have like 800 by now.

i'm wondering why there wasn't this much hate when mgguire did it. Mgguire is just as much a cheater as Bonds.

It's obvious all these guys took steroids. Not really fair to focus on bonds anymore than any other player that took roids. I'm thinking media is getting back at him. Probably because he blew them off so many times throughout his career.

Also he must be good. Those other roid users couldn't even get 65.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: gocubs2k5
Other than Larry Bird and Reggie Miller, I hate Barry Bonds more than any other athlete in the world, no matter when they were living or playing sports. I hope he gets to 754, contracts ebola, and dies in 5 days after it. besides, i think it would be interesting to see if somebody could break Sadaharu Oh's home run record of 868 in Japan..thats a hell of a big number to put up

Oh got the record playing against inferior athletes just like Ruth did. Bonds played against the best and more importantly against others who had the same advantage as him. I remember the 80's and 90's and all the players looked like they were juiced. Bonds just happens to be the best there has ever been with or without steroids.

Today someone like Ruth wouldn't even make the league let alone hit record numbers of home runs. He was just a big fat slob who played against a bunch of rubes who learned their game in a cornfield. He didn't haver to play against Black Athletes and he didn't have to face fresh arms throwing the ball at 100 mph in the 8th and 9th innings like Bonds. Hell even Aron didn't have to face fire balling relievers like Bonds did because back when Aron was playing Relief Pitchers for the most part were just washed up starters, not the specialist that play the game today.


An aside, to all you Houston Assholes..err..Astros fans who were relishing the fact that your chicken sh!t pitcher hit Bonds, you guys didn't seem to mind your players being on Steroids like Jeff Bagwell and Ken Caminetti

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: cHeeZeFacTory

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: KLin
Like I said in the other thread, it only took him 835 more at-bats than the babe to do it .

And the Babe probably did it with a killer hangover

Not that i care much about baseball...but imo,

if they didn't walk Bonds a couple billion times over the last couple of years, he'll have like 800 by now.

i'm wondering why there wasn't this much hate when mgguire did it. Mgguire is just as much as a cheater as Bonds.

It's obvious all these guys took steroids. Not really fair to focus on bonds anymore than any other player that took roids.

Also he must be good. Those other roid users couldn't even get 65.

McGuire and Sosa did not to mention all those Juicers who hit 40 to 50 HR'as during the 80's and 90's.

 

[her209]

I don't think taking steroids will actually make your batting average go up though.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: astrocase
So is it conclusive that Bonds did illegal steroids or is this the classic jealousy rage of trying to piss on someone's success? You see it with Kobe and you see it with Bonds.

Whether Bonds knowingly took steroids is still in question. Whether he took them is not. Do you know why??? Because he told a freaking grand jury that he took them *sigh* myopians make my head hurt...

He told a grand jury that he did not take any thing he knew to be illegal however he could not say wiether or not he did.

You are making a leap. Victor conte says Bonds Never did and although Balco did sell steriods they also had other supliments.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: mugs
People only seem to care about Bonds's use because it is most obvious. It SHOULD be removed from the game completely.

It's more that Barry Bonds is the one player who has been proven to have taken steroids, and there is no and will never be any consequences. It's also more to the point that those who still defend Bonds use the most illogical of arguements. First is those who say it's never been proven - well it has, and anyone who thinks it hasn't is living in their own little bubble of ignorance. Period. Or the other defense is, "You just can't take away his awards, or you can't go back and take away a certain number of home runs each year." News flash, the Olympics, the NCAA, and any number of other international sports, including track & field as a big one, do that very thing all the time! They take away championships, they erase records from the books!

That's my biggest beef, and probably for a lot of people too, it's blatent cheating defended by ignorance and stupidity.

And then it's those godforsaken ESPN announcers who on a daily basis tell me how I need to feel concerning Barry's record chasing. I've had to give up Baseball Tonight cold turkey because of their unnatural love affair with Barry...

WHere's the proof?

 

[Taggart]

Bonds is such a villain. It makes me mad seeing him get all this attention and being compared to Aaron and Ruth. They didn't have to take steroids to hit a bunch of home runs.:|

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Taggart
Bonds is such a villain. It makes me mad seeing him get all this attention and being compared to Aaron and Ruth. They didn't have to take steroids to hit a bunch of home runs.:|

Yeah all Ruth had to do was face a bunch of corn fed Country Bumpkins, none of them black.

 

[moshquerade]

Bonds = The Great Shambino

 

[gocubs2k5]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: gocubs2k5
Other than Larry Bird and Reggie Miller, I hate Barry Bonds more than any other athlete in the world, no matter when they were living or playing sports. I hope he gets to 754, contracts ebola, and dies in 5 days after it. besides, i think it would be interesting to see if somebody could break Sadaharu Oh's home run record of 868 in Japan..thats a hell of a big number to put up

Oh got the record playing against inferior athletes just like Ruth did. Bonds played against the best and more importantly against others who had the same advantage as him. I remember the 80's and 90's and all the players looked like they were juiced. Bonds just happens to be the best there has ever been with or without steroids.

Today someone like Ruth wouldn't even make the league let alone hit record numbers of home runs. He was just a big fat slob who played against a bunch of rubes who learned their game in a cornfield. He didn't haver to play against Black Athletes and he didn't have to face fresh arms throwing the ball at 100 mph in the 8th and 9th innings like Bonds. Hell even Aron didn't have to face fire balling relievers like Bonds did because back when Aron was playing Relief Pitchers for the most part were just washed up starters, not the specialist that play the game today.


An aside, to all you Houston Assholes..err..Astros fans who were relishing the fact that your chicken sh!t pitcher hit Bonds, you guys didn't seem to mind your players being on Steroids like Jeff Bagwell and Ken Caminetti

Japanese baseball is considered roughly equivalent to AAA baseball, so while the American players may be better, the gap isn't as much as people think. Besides, Japan easily outclassed and defeated all comers at the WBC this year. Oh played around 130-140 games against major leaguers, and in that time he hit about 30 home ruuns, drove in about 100 rbis, had about 100 walks, and did just about everything he did on a daily basis for 20 years.

In his career, Babe Ruth faced several players who throw very hard, including Walter Johnson, Rube Marquard, Dazzy Vance, and a host of others. While he didn't necessarily have to face specialty pitchers who throw ungodly sliders and changeups, he still had competition. the spitball was a perfectly legal pitch for everyone until 1923, and after that it was still legal for all those who were grandfathered in to be allowed to keep throwing until they retired, as they made a name for themselves with a spitter and it wouldn't be fair to take their livelihood like that away from them.

bonds is a great player. i dont think there is much debate about that. but he is a prick. its hard to feel good for an asshole.

babe ruth or oh or hank aaron or anybody for that matter never touched steroids either.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: gocubs2k5

babe ruth or oh or hank aaron or anybody for that matter never touched steroids either.

They didn't?

BTW from the 50's through modern days a great many athlete including Mickey Mantle have been abusing Amphetamines. If it was around back when Fatso played I'm sure he would have too, especially when he was suffering from one of his almost daily hangovers.

 

[spacejamz]

i really didn't care either way that he 'supposedly' took steroids until I heard an interview a few months back where he said something like his body got so big because it was a 'gift' from God and not from steroids. There is no way your cap size goes up 2 sizes and your body bulks up like because God gave you a 'gift'...gimme a freakin' break...whatever respect he thought he deserved went straight out the window after that comment...

 

[gocubs2k5]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: gocubs2k5

babe ruth or oh or hank aaron or anybody for that matter never touched steroids either.

They didn't?

BTW from the 50's through modern days a great many athlete including Mickey Mantle have been abusing Amphetamines. If it was around back when Fatso played I'm sure he would have too, especially when he was suffering from one of his almost daily hangovers.

so what? ruth didn't take them. i'm no huge fan of ruth's, so it is more me being anti bonds than pro ruth. neither ruth nor bonds were or are the gods people make them out to be. you are right about mantle. he just had friends and sportswriters who didn't write about it out of respect for him since he was so talented. it's a shame. he was a drunk who still was fantatic, but one must wonder how he would have performed had he layed off the sauce. its the same thing with gooden and strawberry.

and the worst thing of all is there isn't anything in the world i wouldn't do to play in the major leagues for even 1 day, including steroids. hell i would drink hemlock as long as i would be guaranteed a chance to play and not die immediately. bonds is an asshole, and for that reason i have no sympathy or respect for him. i have respect for his talent, but the person and talent are mutually exclusive.

 

[Aimster]

Im not really a big fan off baseball.. but does steroids even have an impact on how good a player is?

Isnt it more being able to hit the ball than how far you can hit it. Im sure even without roids bonds would have been great.

plus there is no evidence at all that bonds used roids. Is there?

 

[JDrake]

congrats

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: gocubs2k5

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: gocubs2k5

babe ruth or oh or hank aaron or anybody for that matter never touched steroids either.

They didn't?

BTW from the 50's through modern days a great many athlete including Mickey Mantle have been abusing Amphetamines. If it was around back when Fatso played I'm sure he would have too, especially when he was suffering from one of his almost daily hangovers.

so what? ruth didn't take them. i'm no huge fan of ruth's, so it is more me being anti bonds than pro ruth. neither ruth nor bonds were or are the gods people make them out to be. you are right about mantle. he just had friends and sportswriters who didn't write about it out of respect for him since he was so talented. it's a shame. he was a drunk who still was fantatic, but one must wonder how he would have performed had he layed off the sauce. its the same thing with gooden and strawberry.

and the worst thing of all is there isn't anything in the world i wouldn't do to play in the major leagues for even 1 day, including steroids. hell i would drink hemlock as long as i would be guaranteed a chance to play and not die immediately. bonds is an asshole, and for that reason i have no sympathy or respect for him. i have respect for his talent, but the person and talent are mutually exclusive.

How do you know what Ruth took and didn't take. Give me a damn break. Performance enhancing supplements have been around since the Gladiator days. You people are just so ignorant to sports its sad. No doubt stimulants were available in Ruth's day and more than likely he took them.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Oh got the record playing against inferior athletes just like Ruth did. Bonds played against the best and more importantly against others who had the same advantage as him. I remember the 80's and 90's and all the players looked like they were juiced. Bonds just happens to be the best there has ever been with or without steroids.

Today someone like Ruth wouldn't even make the league let alone hit record numbers of home runs. He was just a big fat slob who played against a bunch of rubes who learned their game in a cornfield. He didn't haver to play against Black Athletes and he didn't have to face fresh arms throwing the ball at 100 mph in the 8th and 9th innings like Bonds. Hell even Aron didn't have to face fire balling relievers like Bonds did because back when Aron was playing Relief Pitchers for the most part were just washed up starters, not the specialist that play the game today.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Barry Bonds defenders bring out the most illogical and ignorant of arguements.

Babe Ruth: He was hitting 50+ home runs per season in an era where entire teams weren't hitting 50 home runs on a season.

Barry Bonds: He was hitting 60+ home runs when a couple other players were hitting 60+ home runs per season.


Babe Ruth: Sure, black athletes were not in the game at the time.

Barry Bonds: you cannot possibly tell me Bonds is facing the best of the best year round. There are so many teams now in baseball, the talent is so diluted. Like when the Cubs were playing the Giants, the Cubs started Rich Hill against them, a pitcher who is clearly not ready in the major leagues, his era on the season is 9.31. And look at the entire Florida Marlins team, that's a AAA team at best. The national league right now is arguably the weakest it's been in the past 25 years, there simply are no dominant teams, and very few dominant pitchers.

And you really think Barry Bonds has to face 100mph fireballing relievers on a daily basis? That alone shows how little you know about the game of baseball. I challange you to name even 5 pitchers in all of baseball (currently playing) who can throw that fast. I'll start you off - Billy Wagner is a pitcher who can throw 100mph, and he just gave up a 4 run lead in the ninth inning yesterday. :roll: Heck, I'll even give you another - Kyle Farnsworth can throw 100mph, he has been a trainwreck with a career ERA is 4.42. :roll: :roll:


And you want to try and bring Aaron into the mix? He played in the era where pitchers dominated the game. Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Don Drysdale to name the top pitchers in the game, who each had earned run averages in the lower 2's and several times in the 1's, 1.12 one year for Gibson. Nation League FACT - 1968, teams averaged 3.4 runs per game. 2001, teams averaged 4.4 runs per game. So tell me which era again had the better pitching? All the stats are for anyone's viewing at mlb.com, I'm not making this stuff up.

 

[shortspanishguy]

IIRC Testosterone was used in experiments on castrated dogs in 1936.

Somewhere around 1954 or so a pharmaceutical co. (Searle and Ciba.... I think) synthesized a bunch of compunds.

I think Dianabol was created shortly after. So who the hell knows who was using what.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Oh got the record playing against inferior athletes just like Ruth did. Bonds played against the best and more importantly against others who had the same advantage as him. I remember the 80's and 90's and all the players looked like they were juiced. Bonds just happens to be the best there has ever been with or without steroids.

Today someone like Ruth wouldn't even make the league let alone hit record numbers of home runs. He was just a big fat slob who played against a bunch of rubes who learned their game in a cornfield. He didn't haver to play against Black Athletes and he didn't have to face fresh arms throwing the ball at 100 mph in the 8th and 9th innings like Bonds. Hell even Aron didn't have to face fire balling relievers like Bonds did because back when Aron was playing Relief Pitchers for the most part were just washed up starters, not the specialist that play the game today.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Barry Bonds defenders bring out the most illogical and ignorant of arguements.

Babe Ruth: He was hitting 50+ home runs per season in an era where entire teams weren't hitting 50 home runs on a season.

Barry Bonds: He was hitting 60+ home runs when a couple other players were hitting 60+ home runs per season.


Babe Ruth: Sure, black athletes were not in the game at the time.

Barry Bonds: you cannot possibly tell me Bonds is facing the best of the best year round. There are so many teams now in baseball, the talent is so diluted. Like when the Cubs were playing the Giants, the Cubs started Rich Hill against them, a pitcher who is clearly not ready in the major leagues, his era on the season is 9.31. And look at the entire Florida Marlins team, that's a AAA team at best. The national league right now is arguably the weakest it's been in the past 25 years, there simply are no dominant teams, and very few dominant pitchers.

And you really think Barry Bonds has to face 100mph fireballing relievers on a daily basis? That alone shows how little you know about the game of baseball. I challange you to name even 5 pitchers in all of baseball (currently playing) who can throw that fast. I'll start you off - Billy Wagner is a pitcher who can throw 100mph, and he just gave up a 4 run lead in the ninth inning yesterday. :roll: Heck, I'll even give you another - Kyle Farnsworth can throw 100mph, he has been a trainwreck with a career ERA is 4.42. :roll: :roll:


And you want to try and bring Aaron into the mix? He played in the era where pitchers dominated the game. Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Don Drysdale to name the top pitchers in the game, who each had earned run averages in the lower 2's and several times in the 1's, 1.12 one year for Gibson. Nation League FACT - 1968, teams averaged 3.4 runs per game. 2001, teams averaged 4.4 runs per game. So tell me which era again had the better pitching? All the stats are for anyone's viewing at mlb.com, I'm not making this stuff up.

Yeah I'll give you Aaron, he did face great pitchers who had the advantage of a higher mound. Bonds with his arm guard and crowding the plate would have been eating a lot of fastballs if he faced wither Gibson or Drysdale.

BTW I was watching Bob Costas and he had Bob Gibson on. Gibson stated that he was such a competitor that he might have considered taking Steriods if they were avaiable to him. Could you imagine Bob Gibson on Steriods? Even worse could you imagine Gibson with Roid Rage?

 

[cubby1223]

This'll be my last post in this thread, so don't worry, I won't continue it any further.

But that said, it just occurred to me the biggest of all reasons why Barry Bonds defenders (who put down Babe Ruth) are dead wrong in their most fundamental of arguements.

Sure Babe Ruth didn't play in a league with black atheletes. News flash - Barry Bonds doesn't really either!!! There are extremely few african-american athletes in baseball. The african-americans tend to play basketball and football in far greater numbers than baseball. Baseball is filled with white players, latin-american players, carribian players, south american players, japanese players, korean players, etc. with a very small number of african-american athletes today.

The late era that Hank Arron played in is probably the era with the most african-american atheletes, topped off by the We Are Family Pittsburgh Pirates in 1979.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
This'll be my last post in this thread, so don't worry, I won't continue it any further.

But that said, it just occurred to me the biggest of all reasons why Barry Bonds defenders (who put down Babe Ruth) are dead wrong in their most fundamental of arguements.

Sure Babe Ruth didn't play in a league with black atheletes. News flash - Barry Bonds doesn't really either!!! There are extremely few african-american athletes in baseball. The african-americans tend to play basketball and football in far greater numbers than baseball. Baseball is filled with white players, latin-american players, carribian players, south american players, japanese players, korean players, etc. with a very small number of african-american athletes today.

The late era that Hank Arron played in is probably the era with the most african-american atheletes, topped off by the We Are Family Pittsburgh Pirates in 1979.

Newsflash, you are an idiot!