********BORDERLANDS discussion thread*******

[Jumpem]

An I'm an action RPG fan willing to give it a try with the first person interface. All of that character customization and build up you don't like, is what I do.

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: Jumpem
An I'm an action RPG fan willing to give it a try with the first person interface. All of that character customization and build up you don't like, is what I do.

Oh I like it plenty fine. I just don't like to do it by killing the same crap over and over again. Grinding is FTL.

Perhaps they'll get it right - what shooters need from RPGs is an inventory system and equipment with attributes...again, much like STALKER does. What they don't need from RPGs is skill trees. "Shooter RPG" works better when the RPG elements revolve around gear rather than character building.

I dunno. I just don't see anything new to me in these previews. If that changes, I'll jump onboard. At the moment, I see nothing interesting.

 

[TridenT]

Originally posted by: OCNewbie

Originally posted by: pontifex
cell shading = failed garbage.

Not much of a fan of the cell shading look either. I wasn't that impressed.

Yep...

Looks like shit. Game play looks terrible.. OUTLOOK NOT GOOD

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: ja1484
Pardon my lack of enthusiasm, but content and gameplay? Is there anything in this game we haven't done before? I'm still trying to figure out why I should be interested.

Given that all modern AAA titles are the same thing:

(kill ---> get[money,ammo,quest item,red key,XP] ----> maybe dialogue ----> return to step 1)

I pretty much only play games for story or art style these days. The cel shading doesn't particularly hook me, and the story seems vanilla? Where's mah interest?

Wow! No one has ever oversimplified games before! What an amazing argument!

I don't know about you, but the only game I've played that has followed the Diablo system but with a FPS twist is Hellgate: London, which sucked ass. Basically, I'm just hoping for a version of HG:L that doesn't suck ass.

If you only play games for story or art, then I don't know why you even play games. Just read a comic book or watch a movie.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark

Originally posted by: Gothgar
QQ about cel shading some more

Game looks fun

I liked the preview, it looked like Hellgate London done correctly. Then I read the thread and it's endless bitching about the graphics.

I know, right?

Let's not actually discuss the content or gameplay, as those damn characters are too damn cartoonish! Where is my grimdark ultra-realistic grey and brown!

so you watch porn with butt ugly women? or you watch 2 hour feature movies filmed with a cell phone camera? i mean, its all about content and story, right?

Oh and I definitely don't watch those old shitty movies previous to 2006 because you can't see the sweat drops on their eyebrows.

Your analogy fails, as comparing about the graphics of a game isn't the same as complaining about watching a movie on a 1 inch screen because it is damn tiny and you can't see anything.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: Jumpem
An I'm an action RPG fan willing to give it a try with the first person interface. All of that character customization and build up you don't like, is what I do.

Oh I like it plenty fine. I just don't like to do it by killing the same crap over and over again. Grinding is FTL.

Perhaps they'll get it right - what shooters need from RPGs is an inventory system and equipment with attributes...again, much like STALKER does. What they don't need from RPGs is skill trees. "Shooter RPG" works better when the RPG elements revolve around gear rather than character building.

I dunno. I just don't see anything new to me in these previews. If that changes, I'll jump onboard. At the moment, I see nothing interesting.

Did you never play Diablo or something? This isn't Everquest where you have to kill rats until you ding 5.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark

Originally posted by: Gothgar
QQ about cel shading some more

Game looks fun

I liked the preview, it looked like Hellgate London done correctly. Then I read the thread and it's endless bitching about the graphics.

I know, right?

Let's not actually discuss the content or gameplay, as those damn characters are too damn cartoonish! Where is my grimdark ultra-realistic grey and brown!

so you watch porn with butt ugly women? or you watch 2 hour feature movies filmed with a cell phone camera? i mean, its all about content and story, right?

Oh and I definitely don't watch those old shitty movies previous to 2006 because you can't see the sweat drops on their eyebrows.

Your analogy fails, as comparing about the graphics of a game isn't the same as complaining about watching a movie on a 1 inch screen because it is damn tiny and you can't see anything.

works perfectly fine for me. if i don't like the way it looks, i'm not going to play it.

oh, and i said watching a movie filmed with a cell phone camera, not watching it on a cell phone.

 

[450R]

Originally posted by: ja1484
"Shooter RPG" works better when the RPG elements revolve around gear rather than character building.

That's... almost exactly how Borderlands works. Weapons and artifacts determine a lot -- that's why they put so much effort into the random weapon generator. Skills are mostly passive.

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: Dumac
If you only play games for story or art, then I don't know why you even play games. Just read a comic book or watch a movie.

Why? Games are completely different mediums from those two, and allow story telling mechanisms that can't be achieved in those mediums.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: Dumac
If you only play games for story or art, then I don't know why you even play games. Just read a comic book or watch a movie.

Why? Games are completely different mediums from those two, and allow story telling mechanisms that can't be achieved in those mediums.

And what are those mechanisms called?

GAMEPLAY

So, as I said, if you only play games for stories and/or art, there are better mediums for it.

 

[Sureshot324]

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: Dumac
If you only play games for story or art, then I don't know why you even play games. Just read a comic book or watch a movie.

Why? Games are completely different mediums from those two, and allow story telling mechanisms that can't be achieved in those mediums.

And what are those mechanisms called?

GAMEPLAY

So, as I said, if you only play games for stories and/or art, there are better mediums for it.

Agreed. I hate games that focus too much on the story. They are always linear and it makes me feel like I'm being led through the game rather than in control of the game myself. Plus most game stories aren't worth paying attention too anyway.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Koudelka

Originally posted by: HeXploiT
WOW!!

Finally something refreshingly new as well as beautiful for the PC.
Borderlands really looks to be something special.

no offense, but how can you call it beautiful? its cell shading.

Graphics are nothing to boast about here.

For most Borderlands fans, it is. They broke away from the original design because the current art style is drawn straight from concept. Everyone loves concept art, but this entire game is concept art. I think it looks amazing.

And besides, I've been a fan of the game since long before they made the change. The art style isn't what makes the game so popular and #1 at PAX. If you snub a game just because of graphics... man you'll be missing out on the biggest release this year.

 

[JoshGuru7]

I don't get why grinding is listed as a negative in a game like this. For me the combat would be the entire point, and presuming that it is enjoyable then why would I have a problem with being encouraged to engage in lots of combat? If story is really all that matters to you then you should be reading a good novel and waiting for Heavy Rain to release.

RPGs that make up for boring combat with an overflow of quests feel like work to me. You spend all your time chasing waypoints around and looking at your map to see where your next objective is. The combat becomes an obstacle rather than the focus.

This game looks like it has the potential to have some fun co-op action and I'll probably pick up a copy depending on whether people I know buy it.

 

[Malak]

There is no grinding in Borderlands. Killing is the point of the game, and there are more guns in the game than you will ever find in your lifetime. Gaining levels will be an afterthought because after 100 hours and you finally getting to lvl 50... you'll keep playing. And the great thing is, every class uses every gun. So any gun that drops can be useful to you.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

I'm totally stoked about this game. I hope the game world is big enough to encompass the amount of time I can see myself playing this.

This makes me stoked to play it.

This makes me even more stoked to play it on the PC

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: Krakn3Dfx
I'm totally stoked about this game. I hope the game world is big enough to encompass the amount of time I can see myself playing this.

This makes me stoked to play it.

This makes me even more stoked to play it on the PC

The lack of trade interface is disturbing, and I hope they fix that.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Originally posted by: Dumac
The lack of trade interface is disturbing, and I hope they fix that.

Yeah, that does worry me, but I'll be playing mostly with people I know and trust, so no biggie to start.

Hopefully they'll patch in some sort of more worthwhile trading system post-release.

 

[xCxStylex]

Anyone know if there are randomly generated levels like diablo? If not, this might not have that great of replay value :[

Whether it does or doesn't, I'm still getting this. $45 for PC, I might pre-order it.

 

[450R]

Terrain isn't random but some of the structures are.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: xCxStylex
Anyone know if there are randomly generated levels like diablo? If not, this might not have that great of replay value :[

Whether it does or doesn't, I'm still getting this. $45 for PC, I might pre-order it.

I always thought the randomly generated levels in Diablo were more of a gimmick than something that added actual replay value, and judging by the popularity of map hacks, I think many would agree.

TQ has great retail value without having randomly generated maps. It also makes boss runs a lot simpler.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: xCxStylex
Anyone know if there are randomly generated levels like diablo? If not, this might not have that great of replay value :[

Whether it does or doesn't, I'm still getting this. $45 for PC, I might pre-order it.

I always thought the randomly generated levels in Diablo were more of a gimmick than something that added actual retail value, and judging by the popularity of map hacks, I think many would agree.

TQ has great retail value without having randomly generated maps. It also makes boss runs a lot simpler.

Yeah Diablo's "randomly generated" crap is just like most randomly generated levels in any game. Originally they were going to do the same thing in Borderlands. Hand-crafted areas are MUCH better than randomly generated ones.

 

[CottonRabbit]

It's $45 on Steam preorder, l'll probably pick it up. I hope they do a decent job setting up the lobby system for the PC version. For a game like this, that'll be the main factor in determining its success. I've got a good feeling that the gameplay itself won't disappoint.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: CottonRabbit
It's $45 on Steam preorder, l'll probably pick it up. I hope they do a decent job setting up the lobby system for the PC version. For a game like this, that'll be the main factor in determining its success. I've got a good feeling that the gameplay itself won't disappoint.

From what I understand, I don't think it'll work that way. I think it'll be like Burnout Paradise where single player and multiplayer transition while still in the game. So you can be playing and then invite your friend to join you. Not sure if there will be a lobby for PUGs or not.

 

[Zenoth]

Originally posted by: Malak

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: xCxStylex
Anyone know if there are randomly generated levels like diablo? If not, this might not have that great of replay value :[

Whether it does or doesn't, I'm still getting this. $45 for PC, I might pre-order it.

I always thought the randomly generated levels in Diablo were more of a gimmick than something that added actual retail value, and judging by the popularity of map hacks, I think many would agree.

TQ has great retail value without having randomly generated maps. It also makes boss runs a lot simpler.

Yeah Diablo's "randomly generated" crap is just like most randomly generated levels in any game. Originally they were going to do the same thing in Borderlands. Hand-crafted areas are MUCH better than randomly generated ones.

I don't know about the original Diablo, but if you were referring to Diablo II then the maps in it were still hand-crafted to a large extent. The maps that are "randomly generated" are more randomly chosen than actually "generated". I have played Diablo II for roughly five years, if not more, and I can tell you without exaggeration that I have seen all possible map layouts in the game. A good way to see that in action is by using map-hack, the entire map is revealed as soon as you load it, nothing is truly randomly generated either during loading nor during game-play as you walk around. It's really just a good number (about 20+) mostly hand-crafted variants of a map that are then randomly chosen.

The one thing that is barely predictable even after many years of play is the random placement of chests, shrines and enemies (not the type of enemies, but their spawn location). But even then, it's still the same principle, perhaps just more complex, it's just pre-set stuff and then randomly chosen in a list. And I do agree that completely, entirely hand-crafted locations are indeed generally quite better than anything randomly generated. But if you combine fixed, non-random, hand-crafted locations with randomly generated power-ups and enemies, and enemy types, then in my opinion that makes the whole thing much better, but alas a very small number of games out there use that kind of system, the best examples I can think of is Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout 3, especially with modifications.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

New preview article on Borderlands

A few of my favorite quotes:

"while we don?t know yet how big Borderlands will be (the preview build was just a small chunk of the overall world) it was chock full of Mad Max-like bandits, badass alien beasties (some literally named Badass, an enemy rank in Borderlands), and demented psycho midgets. If that sounds insane, that?s Borderlands."

"I was certainly pleased the first time I picked up an SMG and realized it inflicted fire damage on enemies. I was even more pleased when I filled a "Midget Psycho" up with bullets from said SMG that caused him to burst into flames."