BOSE speakers and Sony hometheater system on sale!!

[QuicknDirty]

Originally posted by: Antagon3
Man, some people arent really on the bright side, are they?

Some say BOSE is the best there is, nothing beats it.
Others say they could fart and make better sound.

While BOSE are extremely expensive for what you get, under 200 for the full system is a steal, only other complete system I can think of for around that price (250) would be logitech z680 speakers, and theyre made for computers!

Point is, listen to the speakers, if YOU like them, buy them. Dont listen to what other people say, telling you what you like and dont like. If you're not interested in the hot deal, dont post.

Just my 2cents, if anyones disagrees, i dont give a rats a**

That's a great ad campaign for Bose...I can picture it now:

BOSE- A great sounding Fart!

or

Picture a boyscout troup all sitting around the campfire...then one of them says suddenly: "MAN! Who farted???" Then one of the other kids says "He who nosed it BOSED IT"...

ROTFLMAO..

QnD

 

[adinar]

I'm not going to say anything about the Bose debate - listening is such a subjective thing anyway. What I am going to do is throw out another highly touted speaker system.

Acoustic Research HC6 5.1 system for $300 at Bestbuy.com. When they first came out, they were selling for $700-$800.

Not too many reviews on Audioreview.com for them, but they have been highly recommended at Home Theater Forum and AVSForum. I've been researching speakers in the <$500 price range for the last month or so and these speakers have been recommended several times over (in addition the to Fluance & Onkyo speakers previously mentioned). The only drawback is that they aren't carried in store.

If you're looking for some very highly recommended speakers for a bit more, check out Ascend Acoustics, Axiom Loudspeakers, and Aperion Audio. They make awesome speakers in the ~$300/pair range. The Ascend Acoustics CBM-170s have gotten a 4.97/5.00 on Audioreview.com with over 60 reviews. They all sell through the internet only but provide 30-day trial periods where they'll refund your money completely if you're not satisfied. I usually trust these reviews and the people on the home theater forums as they've usually done a lot of listening & comparisons.

 

[pipeliner1]

You know what the funny thing is.........

I bet all you people who are bashing the bose are running JBLS.....

Its what your ears like people not who owns it or says its good. Your the one who has to listen to it

I auditioned about 60 sets of speakers from NHT to Logins, VIennas, B&w, and so on. I took probably 7 or 8 sets of speakers to my movie theater before i finnally settled on one.

What did i finnally buy a set of Mirage OM7 from what store other then that tweeter place.

 

[Antagon3]

I like the sound of JBLs

But off topic, I myself have Kliscph Reference series

 

[Fritzo]

Just to clarify, BOSE speakers do sound good. They're not junk. It's just that speakers that sound AS good can be found for a lot less. Cambridge Soundworks, for example (hifi.com) has speakers that are as good if not better for a lot less money.

I love these polorized comments we get in these forums

 

[freebee]

The lively debates here are one of the best features of an open forum.

I think the Bose comparison is very much a market based flaw, its an attempt of a premium brand to appeal to an ordinary consumer to gain market share....and has resulted in a drastic decline in quality over the years in order to cut costs.

In a case like this (where Bose products have become heavily discounted), an interesting consumer behavior is shown. It reflects a desire for perceived, rather than actual value. Anti-bose arguments will be greater in these cases.

Consider this example, if a new ferrari 360 sold for 80k, fewer people would buy it than if it sold for 180k. Its just one of those sometimes weird market trends of pricing and perceived value.

 

[Matt L]

Ok, I OWN a Bose Acoustimass system. Is it crap? No. Is it true sounding? No. It's good for non-critical listening, I use mine in a sun room for background music. The only reason I own these speakers is the fact that Bose used to (perhaps sill does..) practically give them away to salespeople to get them to recommend them. Bose sound great if you're moving up from the good old Soundesign system you had as a kid or a boom box. I've listened to a lot of speakers over the years and on a 1-10 scale the Bose rates about 4. Not bad, not great.

Personally, I'm a big fan of Mission speakers, I have 5 pairs in use around the house. Even the cheapest ones beat Bose in accurate sound. I'd guess I'd say Bose is the audio equivalent of McDonald's, You can find them everywhere, they fill a need, but ultimately aren't very satisfying...

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: mboy

Originally posted by: sperz You're right, Tweeter isn't TOP of line, but neither is Bose. Any place they sells "top of the line" equipment will also carry products that MUCH more expensive than Bose. I'm not trying to convince anyone that Bose is the best... we're not, but we are better than most of the cheaper stuff available at BB and CC and places like that.

$$$ for $$$$, no they aren't!!!! Your subs arent even subs. Are u really trying to convince me that your getting LOW bass with a 5" driver? I don't care what 25 year old technology you are using for the enclosure.

Actually those 3rd order bandpass enclosures Bose uses were invented many decades ago. Bose simply patented one particular implementation of a textbook design.


Anyone who says that a Bose speaker has "crisp" or deep bass, really hasn't heard tight or deep bass before. The bandpass design actually removes deep bass, by creating an acoustic filter to filter out the lower octaves and the upper octaves. It is a cheap way to avoid using a quality crossover. They boost midbass to make you think you are hearing real deep bass by using the brain's ability to create a phantom fundamental frequency when it hears only the overtones. For example they boost the range from 60-120hz. A real 20hz musical note (usually only organs go that low in real music) will have overtones of 40, 60, 80, 100, 120hz and so forth. Each overtone is of decreasing amplitude. Since these speakers cannot really produce any appreciable output at either 20 or 40 hz, the brain analyzes the spacing between the overtones and tries to perceive the 20 hz fundamental. But you are neither really hearing or feeling that fundamental. A real full range speaker will produce 20hz and 40hz to varying degrees - that is real deep bass. These speakers do not need to boost the midbass to sound like they produce the lower octaves, so they do not sound bloated like your typical Bose speakers or your typical Aiwa/Sony/Panasonic/Kenwood/whatever minisystem.


The only research Bose ever does is in the field of exploiting psyshoacoustic properties of sound in order to build the cheapest possible product. The speakers are designed to excite inexperienced listeners during short listening sessions or comparisons. In long term use many Bose owners slowly begin to realize something doesn't sound right about their speakers. These are the people that post on audioreview talking about how they've moved on from Bose, and are much better off. A quick look at audioreview comfirms this. It is usually listeners who listen for a few hours that realize that their music is giving them a headache or that it just causes discomfort. This is the result of the frequency response contouring Bose uses. Based on the theory that a slightly louder set of speakers sounds better to the observer (this has been proven - the sound must be only 1-2 db louder, it must less than enough to cause the listener to notice the sound is louder since that negates the effect), and the fletcher-munson human response curves, they slightly boost the frequencies that the human ear is most responsive to. This causes people to believe that they hearing a better speaker during those famous 2 minute demonstrations that Bose is famous for. In the long term this unnatural response curve causes many to experience discomfort and dissatisfaction with music listening.

In the end people can buy what they want. Personally, I wouldn't take one for free much less spend any of my money on that kind of crap. I could write an essay on all the issues with these speakers but I won't. I take it that the more intelligent people around here will figure things out. For other readings:

1. Enter "Bose FAQ" in a good search engine and find the document created by people that studied and analyzed these topics.

2. Go to www.audioreview.com and read the reviews for any Bose product, and ask yourself why so many people have an issue with them.

3. If you are scientifically/engineering minded pick up a physics book and learn about acoustics, speaker design or human psychoacoustics.


Quite honestly, almost anything is better than Bose. For comparatively priced stuff try Yamaha, or even Onkyo. If you can spend more try some speaker companies like Energy, B&W, Mirage, Paradigm, PSB etc. These are available pretty commonly in real audio stores (some of which sell Bose to make a quick profit off of people asking for it - talk to them about it, and they will often admit it - shamefully). If can spend more and or care about music more than the average person then buy a copy of Stereophile magazine at Barnes and Noble or any decent book store. Then get involved at whatever level your budget can manage.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: MontyBurns
No single person here has suggested bose is the best. In fact, all I've been doing is arguing against the horde of people who say Bose is the WORST, and that NOTHING they make is any good. That's just stupid. Regardless: I think it's a bit of a generalization to imply somehow that any one brand could be the best at everything. I don't think such a brand exists.

Actually, you are right. Bose makes good noise cancelling headphones, and they make a line of decent speakers for the Japanese market only. Their commercial products are actually pretty good for certain purposes like PA or sound reinforcement, but I think JBL has more experience in that market.

 

[aldamon]

Originally posted by: pipeliner1
You know what the funny thing is.........

I bet all you people who are bashing the bose are running JBLS.....

Its what your ears like people not who owns it or says its good. Your the one who has to listen to it

My JBL NSP-1 set is very highly regarded critically and in the HT community. That's more than I can say for Bose. Ironically enough, I can thank Bose for allowing me to get my set on closeout ($199 shipped) from J&R last summer. You see, Bose sued JBL over the shape of their tube port on the N24. They won and JBL was forced to make the new NSP-1 II set.

Thanks Bose!

Anyway, though you may not have preferred the JBL sound, you can't say they were inaccurate dreck like Bose, especially if you demo'd the Studio Series.

Originally posted by: Antagon3
I like the sound of JBLs

Many informed people do.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

I love Bose and the stupid little kids who say that stupid little Anadtech saying

 

[Squalish2357]

Originally posted by: wmqiadm
I will agree with most of you guys that bose is overpriced, but can somebody take the challenge and show me better speakers available for under $200 or a better combination of bose speakers and a 500watts AV amplifier for under $330 the same or better crisp sound and uncluttered bass.

I still have 30days to return and you still have 30 days to prove it.


wmqiadm.

PSB alpha A/V's, available @ audiogon for around $100/pair, will beat the pants off these.

 

[santokki]

Originally posted by: teKillah

There is one thing to note here. He says to read the CNET review and also gives a link, but the link actually points to a site other than CNET but which looks just like CNET. Link to the CNET like non-CNET site -

http://att.com.com/4505-6467_7-20984105.html?legacy=cnet&tag=subnav

Am I seeing something wrong or has he really highjacked the CNET link ???? There is no review of FLUANCE on the original CNET site...

What do you guys think ?

That's actually a cnet site with a AT&T menu at the top (I think you get this if you're on AT&T broadband or if you did a search from a AT&T site). Just replace the "att" in the link with "cnet" and you get this link:

http://cnet.com.com/4505-6467_7-20984105.html?legacy=cnet&tag=subnav

Anyway, Bose doesn't make "CRAP". They're just way overpriced. Just like there are many brands out there that sound better, there are also many brands that sound worse. It is possible, however, that the Bose sounds the absolutely worst FOR ITS REGULAR PRICE because it is so overpriced, but at the discounted price that this thread is supposedly about, you'll do okay buying the system.

 

[Saulbadguy]

Just to add to the BOSE bashing, here goes..

My uncle spent $3,500 on the Lifestlye 3500 series. DVD player, speakers, "subwoofer", stands, etc.

I spent $200 on my Panasonic DVD player, and a total of about $650 on my yamaha receiver and speakers/subwoofer. My speakers are fairly small, they don't take up much room, and comparing the 2 systems, my set up sounds just as good as my uncles. I'm not an audio expert or anything, but I know what I hear. The bass is very soft and not defined in his system, and some things that shouldnt be sent to the subwoofer, come through it. Also ,my uncle had to ship his bose unit back twice because it had problems with it. I haven't had a problem with mine.

Personally, I don't think i'd take a BOSE system even if it was given to me. The Acoustimass wave radio? Who in their right mind would pay that much for a freaking clock radio. I know BOSE has their saying "better sound through research" or whatever..but you can't reinvent the wheel, BOSE. Its that simple.

I'm done.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: pipeliner1
You know what the funny thing is.........

I bet all you people who are bashing the bose are running JBLS.....

Its what your ears like people not who owns it or says its good. Your the one who has to listen to it

I auditioned about 60 sets of speakers from NHT to Logins, VIennas, B&w, and so on. I took probably 7 or 8 sets of speakers to my movie theater before i finnally settled on one.

What did i finnally buy a set of Mirage OM7 from what store other then that tweeter place.

I have Mirage's as well...

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: mboy

Originally posted by: sperz You're right, Tweeter isn't TOP of line, but neither is Bose. Any place they sells "top of the line" equipment will also carry products that MUCH more expensive than Bose. I'm not trying to convince anyone that Bose is the best... we're not, but we are better than most of the cheaper stuff available at BB and CC and places like that.

$$$ for $$$$, no they aren't!!!! Your subs arent even subs. Are u really trying to convince me that your getting LOW bass with a 5" driver? I don't care what 25 year old technology you are using for the enclosure.

Actually those 3rd order bandpass enclosures Bose uses were invented many decades ago. Bose simply patented one particular implementation of a textbook design.


Anyone who says that a Bose speaker has "crisp" or deep bass, really hasn't heard tight or deep bass before. The bandpass design actually removes deep bass, by creating an acoustic filter to filter out the lower octaves and the upper octaves. It is a cheap way to avoid using a quality crossover. They boost midbass to make you think you are hearing real deep bass by using the brain's ability to create a phantom fundamental frequency when it hears only the overtones. For example they boost the range from 60-120hz. A real 20hz musical note (usually only organs go that low in real music) will have overtones of 40, 60, 80, 100, 120hz and so forth. Each overtone is of decreasing amplitude. Since these speakers cannot really produce any appreciable output at either 20 or 40 hz, the brain analyzes the spacing between the overtones and tries to perceive the 20 hz fundamental. But you are neither really hearing or feeling that fundamental. A real full range speaker will produce 20hz and 40hz to varying degrees - that is real deep bass. These speakers do not need to boost the midbass to sound like they produce the lower octaves, so they do not sound bloated like your typical Bose speakers or your typical Aiwa/Sony/Panasonic/Kenwood/whatever minisystem.


The only research Bose ever does is in the field of exploiting psyshoacoustic properties of sound in order to build the cheapest possible product. The speakers are designed to excite inexperienced listeners during short listening sessions or comparisons. In long term use many Bose owners slowly begin to realize something doesn't sound right about their speakers. These are the people that post on audioreview talking about how they've moved on from Bose, and are much better off. A quick look at audioreview comfirms this. It is usually listeners who listen for a few hours that realize that their music is giving them a headache or that it just causes discomfort. This is the result of the frequency response contouring Bose uses. Based on the theory that a slightly louder set of speakers sounds better to the observer (this has been proven - the sound must be only 1-2 db louder, it must less than enough to cause the listener to notice the sound is louder since that negates the effect), and the fletcher-munson human response curves, they slightly boost the frequencies that the human ear is most responsive to. This causes people to believe that they hearing a better speaker during those famous 2 minute demonstrations that Bose is famous for. In the long term this unnatural response curve causes many to experience discomfort and dissatisfaction with music listening.

In the end people can buy what they want. Personally, I wouldn't take one for free much less spend any of my money on that kind of crap. I could write an essay on all the issues with these speakers but I won't. I take it that the more intelligent people around here will figure things out. For other readings:

1. Enter "Bose FAQ" in a good search engine and find the document created by people that studied and analyzed these topics.

2. Go to <a href="http://www.audioreview.com">www.audioreview.com</a> and read the reviews for any Bose product, and ask yourself why so many people have an issue with them.

3. If you are scientifically/engineering minded pick up a physics book and learn about acoustics, speaker design or human psychoacoustics.


Quite honestly, almost anything is better than Bose. For comparatively priced stuff try Yamaha, or even Onkyo. If you can spend more try some speaker companies like Energy, B&W, Mirage, Paradigm, PSB etc. These are available pretty commonly in real audio stores (some of which sell Bose to make a quick profit off of people asking for it - talk to them about it, and they will often admit it - shamefully). If can spend more and or care about music more than the average person then buy a copy of Stereophile magazine at Barnes and Noble or any decent book store. Then get involved at whatever level your budget can manage.

Bravo.

 

[soundforbjt]

Originally posted by: sxr7171actually, you are right. Bose makes good noise cancelling headphones, and they make a line of decent speakers for the Japanese market only. Their commercial products are actually pretty good for certain purposes like PA or sound reinforcement, but I think JBL has more experience in that market.

Having worked in the professional sound industry for 25 years as both an engineer and owner of a production company, I can say Bose's sound reinforcement products are as bad if not worse than their home speakers.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: soundforbjt

Originally posted by: sxr7171actually, you are right. Bose makes good noise cancelling headphones, and they make a line of decent speakers for the Japanese market only. Their commercial products are actually pretty good for certain purposes like PA or sound reinforcement, but I think JBL has more experience in that market.

Having worked in the professional sound industry for 25 years as both an engineer and owner of a production company, I can say Bose's sound reinforcement products are as bad if not worse than their home speakers.

I didn't know. I guess there's really nothing this company does well after all. Next thing you know, we'll hear from a professional aviator about how Bose noise cancelling headsets are pretty bad.

 

[kindest]

Originally posted by: mawg
Say it again, Sam: "no highs, no lows, must be Bose."

thet still don't publish their frequency response specs. try finding the Qts (or any other spec) on a Bose driver. Fact is, anybody with a $40 RatShack SPL meter and a test CD can see exactly what the Bose response curves are like, and it ain't pretty.

Nothing new here, move along now....


mawg

lol well said.

 

['BARtMAN']

I love my acsends, I paid about what you pay for a retail set of bose speakers, and they sound 10 times better imo.

Bose = Box only, sound extra; Better Off with Something Else

 

[pipeliner1]

My JBL NSP-1 set is very highly regarded critically and in the HT community. That's more than I can say for Bose. Ironically enough, I can thank Bose for allowing me to get my set on closeout ($199 shipped) from J&R last summer. You see, Bose sued JBL over the shape of their tube port on the N24. They won and JBL was forced to make the new NSP-1 II set.

I didnt intend to bash on JBL.... I meant to mean the JBLS in Best Buy


THe Studio series and the L series are some very good speakers