Bought an hp elite system

[Beanie46]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: vailr
Foxconn makes all of HP's motherboards, AFAIK.

MSI and Gigabyte have made a number in the past but I haven't seen them lately. Mostly its ASUS, Foxconn, and ECS for the past few years (in that order).

You must have gotten a darn good deal when you ordered....today it runs $954.99.


While I was on HP's site, I looked at HP's spec page for his computer; HP states the manufacturer of his motherboard is Pegatron, whoever that is. Found one link, other than sales pages linked to HP or a LOT of links to complaints of problems with this particular motherboard....freezes, sudden death, that listed the board, and it was in Chinese.

Not too great a start there......

Also, wondered why HP is putting 16X DVD-RW drives in this computer given its price. Heck, slowest I can find at Microcenter is 20X.

But I figured, what the heck, let's see if I can come close to his price for essentially the same configuration, shopping at my choices of stores (Newegg, MicroCenter, and Fry's.)

MSI 4350 video card,,,,$20 AR (Newegg)

Asus P6T SE X58 motherboad....$195 AR (Newegg)

6GB DDR2-1066 Memory (Patriot)...$89 (Newegg)

750GB hd.......$79 (Newegg)

22X DVD-RW drive.....$25 (Newegg)

18X DVD-ROM......$18 (Newegg)

Intel Core i7 920...$200 (MicroCenter)

OEM Vista Home Premium....$110 w/free Win 7 upgrade (Newegg)

So far, I've spent $736. I'd buy at MicroCenter simply because MicroCenter will price match any Newegg price and I hate paying $80 extra for a cpu.

Only things left are your keyboard/mouse combo (on sale for $30 at Fry's), case and power supply, and anti-virus (Kaspersky is FAR at Fry's,) and a copy of Works...which is damned cheap on ebay, but it's not much, in my opinion.

So, I can pretty much replicate your build for about the same price. The big difference is I can pick and choose the exact manufacturer of each part I want instead of hoping HP uses something quality.....and from what I found Googling your motherboard, HP really is cutting corners there.

I do hope it works out well for you.....

 

[Axon]

Double post, my bad

 

[Axon]

Decent computer for the price, yeah. You're gonna want to upgrade that GPU, though, if you're going to game at all.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: Beanie46
While I was on HP's site, I looked at HP's spec page for his computer; HP states the manufacturer of his motherboard is Pegatron, whoever that is.

Pegatron = ASUS.

 

[cr2250]

Originally posted by: Beanie46

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: vailr
Foxconn makes all of HP's motherboards, AFAIK.

MSI and Gigabyte have made a number in the past but I haven't seen them lately. Mostly its ASUS, Foxconn, and ECS for the past few years (in that order).

You must have gotten a darn good deal when you ordered....today it runs $954.99.


While I was on HP's site, I looked at HP's spec page for his computer; HP states the manufacturer of his motherboard is Pegatron, whoever that is. Found one link, other than sales pages linked to HP or a LOT of links to complaints of problems with this particular motherboard....freezes, sudden death, that listed the board, and it was in Chinese.

Not too great a start there......

Also, wondered why HP is putting 16X DVD-RW drives in this computer given its price. Heck, slowest I can find at Microcenter is 20X.

But I figured, what the heck, let's see if I can come close to his price for essentially the same configuration, shopping at my choices of stores (Newegg, MicroCenter, and Fry's.)

MSI 4350 video card,,,,$20 AR (Newegg)

Asus P6T SE X58 motherboad....$195 AR (Newegg)

6GB DDR2-1066 Memory (Patriot)...$89 (Newegg)

750GB hd.......$79 (Newegg)

22X DVD-RW drive.....$25 (Newegg)

18X DVD-ROM......$18 (Newegg)

Intel Core i7 920...$200 (MicroCenter)

OEM Vista Home Premium....$110 w/free Win 7 upgrade (Newegg)

So far, I've spent $736. I'd buy at MicroCenter simply because MicroCenter will price match any Newegg price and I hate paying $80 extra for a cpu.

Only things left are your keyboard/mouse combo (on sale for $30 at Fry's), case and power supply, and anti-virus (Kaspersky is FAR at Fry's,) and a copy of Works...which is damned cheap on ebay, but it's not much, in my opinion.

So, I can pretty much replicate your build for about the same price. The big difference is I can pick and choose the exact manufacturer of each part I want instead of hoping HP uses something quality.....and from what I found Googling your motherboard, HP really is cutting corners there.

I do hope it works out well for you.....

I have a 9800gtx from my old computer, not an issue there. I don't have a frys or microcenter near me, sadly its pretty far. Also I got norton 2009 for 3 years upgraded free! These little things add up. Sure building a computer is fun and great, but it won't kill me to have them build it for me. You said you left out the case power etc. Well you only have a 123 dollars for that, try getting speakers, wireless mouse and keyboard, case, power, and norton for 3 years (expensive btw) Theres also that memory card reader built into the case which is nifty.

 

[cr2250]

Originally posted by: Syn
Hey cr2250 did you receive the system yet?I haven't went the pre-built route since the mid 90's (which was a Gateway,ugh) but after seeing what you put together I'm considering it.That's in my price range of $950 too.Let us know how you are liking it.

I get it on the 9th, but i used the discounts
Instant discounts you received:
$200.00 PC instant rebate
$95.50 Coupon DTZ8791
the 200 dollar was given automatically, the dtz expired already i think.

 

[cr2250]

btw use google and type in pegatron
guarantee the first couple links it to asus
research research research lol

 

[cr2250]

also if you haven't used norton 2009 yet, its amazing compared to the past, they really out did their selves with this year, probably best anti virus out imho

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: vailr

Originally posted by: alyarb
At any rate, what motherboard do you think HP uses for their $800 i7 machines?

Foxconn makes all of HP's motherboards, AFAIK.

nah I think most of them are ASUS, at least from my experience working for this guy who sold replacement HP parts.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

core i7 micro center $200 if you cant go to micro center you could find one near this price on this forum for sale/for trade section

msi x58 mobo $170
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813130227

patriot viper memory 3x2gb 1333mhz $81 after rebates
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820220369

thermaltake case and power supply $58 after rebates
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?ItemList=Combo.215742

hitachi 1Tb hard drive $75
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822145233

vista home premium with win7 upgrade $110
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16832116677

visiontek hd 4770 video card $105
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814129131

logitech wireless keyboard and mouse $30
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16823126174

pioneer blu ray reader and dvd burner $110
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16827129016

Total price $939 after rebates. $80 more than your build. You get a thermaltake case and power supply which the case is far more customizable and better quality. Power supply also much better quality than whats in a hp. I gave you a blu ray player with dvd burning capabilities over a dvd burner and dvd rom. No contest there. I also got you a 1 tb hard drive instead of 750gb. I gave you a far superior video card 4770 vs 4350 no contest. You also get some quality memory patriot at a higher speed 1333mhz. You also get a far superior mobo with a msi board with true blu ray audio and overclockable to boot. So I think $80 more is very good for a far superior build which can be upgraded far more than a hp which in the long run can save you more than $80. When the system I built gets old you can overclock to give it some more life. When your hp power supply gives out right after your warranty my thermaltake will still have some life in it. I did not forget your norton subscribtion. I suggest avg security suite free, a free firewall, and keep windows up to date and stay away from suspicious sites and you got no problems.

I hate to brag but I just blew your hp out of the water.

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Originally posted by: OILFIELDTRASH
core i7 micro center $200 if you cant go to micro center you could find one near this price on this forum for sale/for trade section

msi x58 mobo $170
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813130227

patriot viper memory 3x2gb 1333mhz $81 after rebates
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820220369

thermaltake case and power supply $58 after rebates
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?ItemList=Combo.215742

hitachi 1Tb hard drive $75
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822145233

vista home premium with win7 upgrade $110
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16832116677

visiontek hd 4770 video card $105
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814129131

logitech wireless keyboard and mouse $30
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16823126174

pioneer blu ray reader and dvd burner $110
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16827129016

Total price $939 after rebates. $80 more than your build. You get a thermaltake case and power supply which the case is far more customizable and better quality. Power supply also much better quality than whats in a hp. I gave you a blu ray player with dvd burning capabilities over a dvd burner and dvd rom. No contest there. I also got you a 1 tb hard drive instead of 750gb. I gave you a far superior video card 4770 vs 4350 no contest. You also get some quality memory patriot at a higher speed 1333mhz. You also get a far superior mobo with a msi board with true blu ray audio and overclockable to boot. So I think $80 more is very good for a far superior build which can be upgraded far more than a hp which in the long run can save you more than $80. When the system I built gets old you can overclock to give it some more life. When your hp power supply gives out right after your warranty my thermaltake will still have some life in it. I did not forget your norton subscribtion. I suggest avg security suite free, a free firewall, and keep windows up to date and stay away from suspicious sites and you got no problems.

I hate to brag but I just blew your hp out of the water.

You forgot to mention the capability of SLI and Crossfire. Building is ALWAYS better for those that can.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: OILFIELDTRASH
I hate to brag but I just blew your hp out of the water.

You forgot a card reader and speakers. That Thermaltake case is pretty cheap and the PSU ain't that great. You'd need to spend well over $50 (no PSU) to get a DIY case that is as well-designed and constructed as most OEM chassis. Dell has used some really trick chassis designs in the past, that literally have no equal in the DIY market (at any price). I've used about a dozen of those cheapo 430W Thermaltakes, they're OK but not clearly superior to HP's 460W. HP's chassis is also more compact, which is important to some (what's the point of using hulkish 10-bay and 11-bay Mid-Towers when most people are only going to use five or six bays at most?).

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: OILFIELDTRASH
I hate to brag but I just blew your hp out of the water.

You forgot a card reader and speakers. That Thermaltake case is pretty cheap and the PSU ain't that great. You'd need to spend well over $50 (no PSU) to get a DIY case that is as well-designed and constructed as most OEM chassis. Dell has used some really trick chassis designs in the past, that literally have no equal in the DIY market (at any price). I've used about a dozen of those cheapo 430W Thermaltakes, they're OK but not clearly superior to HP's 460W. HP's chassis is also more compact, which is important to some (what's the point of using hulkish 10-bay and 11-bay Mid-Towers when most people are only going to use five or six bays at most?).

What?

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem
What?

Is you deef, dumb, what is your what about? Most OEM chassis are superior in design and construction to almost any DIY chassis under $50 (minus PSU). The fitment of most OEM chassis is superb. No side panels that don't line up with the frame/front panel bezel. No front panel/bezels that are off-kilter. No drives that are off-center because the front panel or drive cage is poorly aligned. No add-in cards that poorly align with the rear I/O bracket. No flimsy front panel USB ports that don't work or super-cheap device cabling with no shielding. No cheap-ass power buttons that start sticking after pressing them a few dozen times. Thermal features are actually designed for and tested in a configuration that will ship as opposed to just being put there generically, same goes for EMI control and shielding (most DIY chassis receive ZERO testing for EMI and would fail regulatory mandates or standards). They often have tool-less features such as removable drive rails and drive cages, which are rare in DIY cases under $50.

In fact, every trick chassis feature you care to name originated in the OEM chassis market, then filtered down to DIY cases. Tool-less features were common in Gateway and Dell chassis long before they were available on DIY chassis. Have you ever seen Dell's clam-shell chassis design (I'm not sure its used anymore)? Very trick, and it has no equal in the DIY market at any price.

Granted, OEM chassis designs have gotten a bit cheaper in the past few years, and some of these features have been dropped on their cost-effective product lines. Still, they are superior to anything in the DIY market under $50 (sans PSU).

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

In no way is a dell or hp case better than what you can get in a aftermarket case even in a cheapie but remember the one I picked out is a name brand Thermaltake. Unless your talking about the high end alienware or cases of that ilk. I'm sure the case hes getting with it is one of the generic cheap plastic hp nightmares. More than likely the case hes getting is not even a micro atx mobo size but a size thats made specifically for Hp which basically means he can't use that same "great" :roll: HP case for future upgrading. They are in no way designed for good airflow. They are put together as cheaply as possible and might include 1 and if your lucky 2 120mm fans. Nowhere near what you could put in an aftermarket case. Oh yeah btw could you fit a aftermarket heatsink in that famous HP case. Why no mention that in my build he gets a blu ray player, a decent gaming gpu that can actually play games (a 4350 would be good for running vista aero but thats it), a more reliable ps, and upgradability which in the long run could save cash?

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

My "What?" was because I was in disbelief of what you just said. I'm not sure what cases you've been working with nor what OEM cases you have used. My school bought very expensive Dell XPS cases that are worth thousands of dollars and within a short amount of time all the power buttons broke off. To start the computer would require manually pushing a tiny button on an extruded PCB that the front button was supposed to push. Most OEM cases I've worked with look like your normal $20 dollar case off newegg and deserve no praise. Some of them were a pain to work on and used non-standard PSU's. You give way too much praise to OEM cases just because you've made some poor decisions.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: OILFIELDTRASH
They are in no way designed for good airflow. They are put together as cheaply as possible and might include 1 and if your lucky 2 120mm fans. Nowhere near what you could put in an aftermarket case. Oh yeah btw could you fit a aftermarket heatsink in that famous HP case.

You have no idea what you're talking about. OEM cases are specifically designed and tested for thermal and EMI considerations. They actually undergo engineering and reliability studies for things like vibration and shock during transport. DIY cases do not receive any of this. Ask the OEM exactly how much weight can be placed on any given side of the chassis - they can tell you. Ask a DIY chassis supplier these things and all you'll get are blank stares because its never done, except perhaps on the most expensive premium chassis lines (that cost well over $100).

The one thing OEMs do not and have NEVER done cheaply is chassis design. How many 120 fans you get is irrelevant. The fan supplier is. I've seen Sanyo-Denki fans used by Dell and Gateway. Ever seen one in a DIY case?

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: OILFIELDTRASH
They are in no way designed for good airflow. They are put together as cheaply as possible and might include 1 and if your lucky 2 120mm fans. Nowhere near what you could put in an aftermarket case. Oh yeah btw could you fit a aftermarket heatsink in that famous HP case.

You have no idea what you're talking about. OEM cases are specifically designed and tested for thermal and EMI considerations. They actually undergo engineering and reliability studies for things like vibration and shock during transport. DIY cases do not receive any of this. Ask the OEM exactly how much weight can be placed on any given side of the chassis - they can tell you. Ask a DIY chassis supplier these things and all you'll get are blank stares because its never done, except perhaps on the most expensive premium chassis lines (that cost well over $100).

The one thing OEMs do not and have NEVER done cheaply is chassis design. How many 120 fans you get is irrelevant. The fan supplier is. I've seen Sanyo-Denki fans used by Dell and Gateway. Ever seen one in a DIY case?

That has got to be the biggest load of crap Ive ever heard on any forum. They put the cheapest crap they can together and pray to God that they don't break before your warranty is up. If your one of the many that your system goes down have fun dealing with a non english speaking tech support. I like putting quality parts by reputable companies in my computer. Ive went the HP and Dell route before and I had to take back 3 or 4 computers before the 30 day exchange policies were up. Thats 30 days. The last few builds I've done I have had no hardware issues in years Ive owned them. What OEM do you work for? You must to defend the junk they put out there.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem
My "What?" was because I was in disbelief of what you just said. I'm not sure what cases you've been working with nor what OEM cases you have used.

I admit that my exposure to DIY chassis is almost exclusively limited to those typically costing under $50 (sans the PSU), and I've clearly stated this ~$50 limit only about two dozen times now. I would never spend more than $50 on a chassis. Most of the cases I've ever purchased were even less. However, my exposure to OEM chassis amounts to not less than several dozen OEM systems every year for the past 14 years (before the ATX standard), encompassing all of the major OEMs; Dell, HP/Compaq, Gateway, eMachines, IBM, and Sony.

I've also seen some OEM cases that were a pain in the ass to work in. That isn't relevant to whether they are well-designed or constructed. e.g. many automobiles are more of a pain to work on than others. And yet many of those that are a major PITA to work on are decidedly better or more sophisticated designs. i.e. cars are meant to be driven, not to be worked-on.

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem
My "What?" was because I was in disbelief of what you just said. I'm not sure what cases you've been working with nor what OEM cases you have used.

I admit that my exposure to DIY chassis is almost exclusively limited to those typically costing under $50 (sans the PSU), and I've clearly stated this ~$50 limit only about two dozen times now. I would never spend more than $50 on a chassis. Most of the cases I've ever purchased were even less. However, my exposure to OEM chassis amounts to not less than several dozen OEM systems every year for the past 14 years (before the ATX standard), encompassing all of the major OEMs; Dell, HP/Compaq, Gateway, eMachines, IBM, and Sony.

I've also seen some OEM cases that were a pain in the ass to work in. That isn't relevant to whether they are well-designed or constructed. e.g. many automobiles are more of a pain to work on than others. And yet many of those that are a major PITA to work on are decidedly better or more sophisticated designs. i.e. cars are meant to be driven, not to be worked-on.

Whatever makes you sleep at night.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: OILFIELDTRASH
That has got to be the biggest load of crap Ive ever heard on any forum. They put the cheapest crap they can together and pray to God that they don't break before your warranty is up. If your one of the many that your system goes down have fun dealing with a non english speaking tech support. I like putting quality parts by reputable companies in my computer.

ORLLY? This is where it gets fun for me. Tell us now, which of these so-called "reputable companies" are you speaking of?

All OEMs use optical drives from Lite-On, NEC, Pioneer, and Samsung. No, these manufacturers do not have a "special" low-quality production line just for OEMs like Dell or HP. Its the same damned mass-produced optical drive, the only differences being the firmware and in some cases the plastic bezel.

The hard drives are Seagate, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Western Digital. No, these companies do not have a "special" low-quality production line just for Dell and HP. Its the same damned mass-produced hard drive, the only difference being the firmware. OEMs often use cost-saving options such as smaller 2MB cache instead of 8MB cache, or 5400RPM instead of 7200RPM, but these are differences in features, not "quality". 8MB chips do not last longer than 2MB chips (though 5400RPM drives might last longer than 7200RPM due to less wear on the spindle/bearings and lower average operating temps).

How about motherboards? HP primarily uses motherboards manufactured by ASUS, but also some Foxconn (who manufactures nearly all of Intel's motherboards and all the NVIDIA reference boards that other companies slap their label on such as EVGA). The only difference between ASUS retail and OEM motherboards is the customized BIOS and feature options such as the audio codec or LAN chips. Using a cheaper audio codec or LAN chip does not make the "quality" of one motherboard different than another. These are feature differentiations only. In many cases, Gateway/eMachines and Dell use genuine Intel OEM motherboards, the only differences being a custom BIOS and a different options such as audio codec or LAN chip.

The memory modules used by OEMs are 100% JEDEC compliant modules manufactured by leading DRAM companies such as Micron, Samsung, Qmonda (Infineon), and Nanya (Elixir/Hynix). These companies design and manufacture the DRAM chips that all "premium enthusiast" brands put their name on. Are we to believe that Corsair and Patriot - who don't even design the module PCB (out-sourced to design houses like Brain Power) - make higher "quality" modules than the companies who designed and manufactured the DRAM chips? Yeah, right!

Ive went the HP and Dell route before and I had to take back 3 or 4 computers before the 30 day exchange policies were up.

How many of them were for poorly designed or constructed chassis?

 

[tcsenter]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of so-called "enthusiasts" who evidently don't know the difference between features and quality. Not only is there no merit to the assertion that retail components are more likely to be "higher quality" than OEM components, the opposite is more likely to be true. Anyone who believes otherwise doesn't have the slightest clue how the manufacturing sector works.

Suppose that you are a manufacturer with OEM and retail segments. You have three OEM customers who purchase a combined total of one million motherboards annually, and you ship the same number (one million) retail channel motherboards annually. If your defect or failure rate increases by 10%, you bet your ass that OEM customers will know it. If you lose one of those customers, 300,000 less motherboards is a substantial loss of business. Now let's consider your retail business...

Those additional defects and failures are spread-out over at least 500K different retail purchasers. Nobody is going to detect this increase in failures or defects because it is statistically impossible unless you purchase hundreds and hundreds of motherboards. Instead, most are going to chalk it up to the 'random dud' that is an inescapable reality in mass production of any product.

Furthermore, the profit margin on your retail boards is a full three to four times your OEM boards. You could replace 10% of your retail boards and still make a profit. If you had to give your OEM customer consideration for the increased failures in order to keep their business, it could erase the profit you made for an entire quarter. Check out how much NVIDIA has set aside to appease its OEM customers affected by the defective mobile graphics parts. Do you know anyone who buys a couple retail motherboards annually that is getting some of that money? In your dreams...

OEMs know the "going" defect and failure rates in the manufacturing industry. They have engineers and expert consultants who have worked for those manufacturers - in those manufacturing facilities. And they have the purchasing power to get what they want. If you lose one thousand retail customers - pfft! That's like having a few nickels fall out of your pocket. If you lose a single OEM customer, you are closing shifts and laying-off workers.

Still think your piddly one motherboard purchase every two or three years gets you higher quality than HP, Dell, or Gateway? If so, I've got some stunning ocean-front property in Utah you might be interested in. They did some nuclear testing there a while back but its all cleaned up now. I promise its safe. Those ground squirrels are supposed to have two heads and five legs!

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I don't have nearly the problem with HP and Dell chassis as I do their 'hidden file' OS install cache and their obscene BIOS versions.

 

[cr2250]

I'm proud to have an hp, remember i bought this for CAD, not gaming. if I was to game it would be css or some hl2 game. Second, yeah 80 bucks more i could've gotten a diy build, but i've had good luck in the past, i trust their build quality. Plus i doubt they don't stress test their chassis for heat, durability etc.

 

[Fox5]

Heh, weak video card in that HP. I bet to upgrade it from them would be quite expensive.
However, since you can do it yourself, you've got a good deal. Complete DIYing is really only needed if you need some special features or want to overclock.