Boy Scouts files for bankruptcy

[Kaido]

Boy Scouts of America files for bankruptcy. Hundreds of sexual abuse lawsuits are now on hold | CNN

The Boy Scouts of America has filed for bankruptcy, according to a court document filed in Delaware bankruptcy court early Tuesday.

www.cnn.com

Last April, exposed court testimony showed the organization believed more than 7,800 of its former leaders were involved in sexually abusing more than 12,000 children over the course of 72 years.

I knew there were issues, but I had no idea how huge the numbers are For reference, wikipedia says there are currently 2.3 million kids involved with one million adult volunteers. I dunno what the statistical ratio of that is, or what that ratio would be compared to other organizations or abuse in general, but it doesn't matter...12,000 kids is an INSANE number. On NPR from last year:

Boy Scouts Of America Estimates More Than 12,000 Victims Of Sexual Abuse

Newly exposed court testimony suggests the Boy Scouts of America had considerably more leaders involved in the sexual abuse of minors than previously thought.

www.npr.org

GOODWYN: A bankruptcy filing could allow the 109-year-old organization to continue operating by shielding its assets and information. The Boy Scouts filed suit last year against half a dozen of its own insurers for refusing to cover its sexual abuse legal liabilities. The insurers respond that the Boy Scouts' coverage is invalidated because the Scouts neglected to take meaningful precautionary actions. Those cases are pending. Wade Goodwyn, NPR News, Dallas.

I personally was fortunate to have had a good experience in Boy Scouts. I would have been the typical introvert nerd who didn't go outside much otherwise all throughout school. I went camping, hiking, fishing, canoeing, kayaking, to jamborees, did fundraisers, learned all kinds of stuff like emergency medical care & different knots & whatnot. I didn't want to go, but my parents made me go, and I feel like it had a very positive impact on my life. I still have people I'm friends with from my troop today & learned stuff that I still use today as well. Bottom line is I think it prevented me from being a total loaf throughout grade school.

I'm sad to hear of their bankruptcy, but 12,000 kids abused over 72 years...I mean, how much cover-up was involved in this? That's 166 kids abused every year, on average. That would be like one report every other day nation-wide. It looks like they do have some procedures for reporting & preventing abuse, but apparently that wasn't very effective based on how many kids they estimate were abused:

Youth Protection and Adult Leadership | Boy Scouts of America

Scouting’s Barriers to Abuse The BSA has adopted the following policies for the safety and well-being of its members. These policies primarily protect youth members; however, they also serve to protect adult leaders. All parents and caregivers should understand that our leaders are to abide by...

www.scouting.org

Really horrible for the kids involved. I'd imagine that abuse happens in any organization, but the extent in BSA is enormous. I think the world will be worse off for not having a program that gets kids out of the house, away from computers & screens, and out into nature...but if it removes the risk of abuse, then it's probably a Good Thing. Based on this information:

1. Boy Scouts is a great concept
2. However, it created an environment that allowed for abuse of children
3. This information was never publicly made known, to the extent of 12,000 cases
4. They were obviously aware of the issue & as the NPR interview said, did not take meaningful precautionary actions

I hate to see a great organization tarnished by a percentage of people who chose to make horrible decisions over the kids whose lives they were involved in. The vast majority of leaders, like 99.5%, were not predatory. But there were enough to generate an estimated 12,000 cases of abuse, and the BSA didn't make that information public, nor did they put in effective measures for prevention, apparently.

 

[sdifox]

Good riddance

 

[Kaido]

Good riddance

I think it's easy to dismiss an organization as a whole, but I also think there's more to it than that:

1. Abuse happens in any organization, because of the spectrum of human nature
2. BSA wasn't actively encouraging or condoning abuse
3. The published volume is staggering, but from what I'm reading in the news, BSA has a lower number than other organizations due to controls they added over time

It's really hard for me not to have a knee-jerk reaction to the numbers, but this post elaborates the situation quite a bit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/cmwi8b/_/ew5knq5

To me, it sounds like:

1. BSA as an organization was trying to do good work
2. There are a lot of creeps out there
3. The collective weight of the lawsuits took them down

 

[sdifox]

I think it's easy to dismiss an organization as a whole, but I also think there's more to it than that:

1. Abuse happens in any organization, because of the spectrum of human nature
2. BSA wasn't actively encouraging or condoning abuse
3. The published volume is staggering, but from what I'm reading in the news, BSA has a lower number than other organizations due to controls they added over time

It's really hard for me not to have a knee-jerk reaction to the numbers, but this post elaborates the situation quite a bit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/cmwi8b/_/ew5knq5

To me, it sounds like:

1. BSA as an organization was trying to do good work
2. There are a lot of creeps out there
3. The collective weight of the lawsuits took them down

They covered up a lot of abuse cases.

 

[highland145]

Pedo's need a bullet to the head.

Not belittling any abuse against children but...12K/72 years ~=sex abuse cases in Hollywood last week.

 

[sdifox]

Pedo's need a bullet to the head.

Not belittling any abuse against children but...12K/72 years ~=sex abuse cases in Hollywood last week.

Convict every single of of the fuckers then.

 

[Zanovar]

Jesus if there was a job that needing vetting

 

[highland145]

Convict every single of of the fuckers then.

Fine by me....then a .25c bullet.

 

[sdifox]

Fine by me....then a .25c bullet.

Why? Put them in general population. Convicts don't like pedophiles.

 

[highland145]

Why? Put them in general population. Convicts don't like pedophiles.

Bullets are cheaper and you're assuming the pedo's are soft targets.

 

[sdifox]

Bullets are cheaper and you're assuming the pedo's are soft targets.

I don't care how tough they can be, ten on one and you can't win.

 

[Captante]

I had a lot of fun in the Cub Scouts troop run by my next-door neighbors/my mom when I was a little-little kid but I lost interest long before I reached what would have been Boy Scout age. (thank goodness apparently!)

Older scouts always seemed weird and dorky somehow.

 

[Kaido]

They covered up a lot of abuse cases.

My knee-jerk reaction was pretty negative, so it's easy to write off the entire organization, but there are layers:

1. Human nature
2. Organizations
3. Abuse cases

Let's compare that with the grade school organization of public education:

Sexual abuse in primary and secondary schools - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

* A 1993 study performed by the American Association of University Women examined seventy-nine state schools in the United States, finding that 9.6% of students reported sexual abuse by teachers in the school setting.

* In the United States, "roughly 290,000 students experienced some sort of physical sexual abuse by a public school employee from 1991 to 2000—a single decade, compared with the roughly five-decade period examined in the study of Catholic priests."

* A federal report estimated that in the state of California, "422,000 California public-school students would be victims before graduation".

290k kids were abused by public school employees in a 10-year span. It'd be easy to write off public schools too, but I think it's more human nature that's the problem. From there, there are a lot of things to deal with:

1. Putting controls in place to prevent it from happening
2. Realizing that scummy behavior is going to happen whether or not you try to prevent it
3. Realizing that many people who perform abuse were abused themselves
4. Being more public about the issues

Not only that, but they estimate that only a third of abuse cases are ever reported:

Institutions face risk for child sexual abuse. Here’s how they can prevent it. | Opinion

At Mission Kids Child Advocacy Center, we offer free “Darkness to Light” training to teach adults how to recognize, prevent, and react responsibly to child sexual abuse.

www.inquirer.com

My guess is:

1. All organizations suffer from this problem
2. We're only hearing the tip of the iceberg due to the ones that aren't reported

I think we've been very dismissive as a society against stuff like this. The #MeToo movement not only should never have had to happen, but should have happened decades ago. But there are a lot of negative incentives in place, where it's money, fame, power, or protecting your image, from Hollywood to Boy Scouts to public schools to churches.

 

[Eno Safirey]

My experience with the organization was positive but our troop was sponsored by my local elementary school. There were other troops in my town but they were sponsored by churches. There was a dramatic difference in the way things were done. We would do fund raising projects to pay for our camping expenses without any interference from the school authorities. Friends who were in other troops told me that they had to deal with the church bureaucracies before any decisions were made.

I'm starting to wonder if there is something about organized religion that ruins good causes because of micromanagement. The sex scandal aspect is just another reason for people to be wary of certain groups.

 

[lxskllr]

I got out before boyscouts. It was just lame. We didn't do much of anything fun, and they still owe me some badges and a flashlight. I should probably get those while I still can :^P