Boycott France? I'll pass

[Hayabusa Rider]

Just planted some Super Marmande tomatoes

They are FRENCH! BWHAHAHAH!



Had a nice 2000 Bordeaux too.

 

[Insane3D]

Michael -

I wasn't aware the French and German governments threatened Turkey with denial of EU membership if they let the Americans open a northern front. Assuming this is true, I'm sure it had some effect on Turkey's decision, but I doubt it is the only reason they denied us access. The fact is, they had a open vote in the method employed by their government, and they voted against us using their country in a fair manner. While this decision made us need to adapt our war plan, we still won the war in like three weeks with minimal casualties. In fact, a good deal of our casualties were from friendly fire incidents or from our helicopters breaking right and left. I understand while you feel they caused us more casulaties, but I feel that is more your opinion than a fact. The only way we would know for sure would be to have seen the war undertaken with a northern front launched from Turkey.

Regardless, in my opinion, the deaths of our soldiers soley rest in the President's hands since he is the one that gave the order to attack Iraq. To blame France seems a little strange since they ultimately had no say in what we did. If we never attacked Iraq, we wouldn't have had any casualties, but our President decided we needed to, so the responsibility rests with him IMO.

As far as you deciding to boycott French products, I agree it is totally your choice, and if you feel you are doing it for a reason, then it is not for me to say whether you are right or wrong. I have only been to Paris once in my life, so I can't really say with any accuracy from my experience how the French feel toward us. From what I heard, they are not a fan of us either. I just feel to hate another country, just because their government didn't fall in line with what the US wanted to do, is a pointless endeavor. Sure, right now it's the "in" thing to do to hate France, but it never hurts to have friends around the world, and holding a grudge benefits no one. I can respect your feelings since you have a well thought out reasoning behind your feelings, whereas most people in this country are just jumping on the bandwagon. I feel both countries could have handled the situation better, but the past is the past and it is time to move on.

 

[FrustratedUser]

The 'anti France' thing is really dumb.
We should boycot ourselves for supporting Saddam in the 70's - 80's.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: przero
Dig up our boys and bring home! Heroes deserve a better resting place!

By the way it is the french people who will pay with a boycott of french products. Just what they deserve!

Pay attention here people, this is exactly the kind of irrational thinking I'm talking about.

 

[mugs]

i do seem to remember them having a popular 9/11 was a us/jewish conspiracy book to boot. anti semetic, anti american, they are not friends.

Punish the masses for the actions of an individual... That's why our war in Iraq violated the Geneva Convention. Admittedly, we made every effort not to harm civilians, so I want Bush to be tried for war crimes or anything. But the fact that civilians are inevitably killed in large numbers is itself a commentary on how civilized modern warfare is compared to the wars of several hundred years ago which were fought by oposing armies on a battlefield, not with bombs dropped on cities. On one hand we saved the lives of American soldiers, but on the other hand we cost the lives of civilians. Which is more desirable? Well neither really... almost makes you want to be a pacifist, but unfortunately evil exists in the world and ignoring it won't make it go away... dah, I've gone off on a tangent.

they are a country that has no current reason for being on the security council. maybe india the worlds largest democracy should replace them.

a. You're making the assumption that democracy is the only acceptable form of government. I agree that it is a great form of government, but I think some of the monarchies out there might have an issue with that.
b. Why does ANY country deserve to be a permament member of the the security council, or to have veto power? That doesn't sound like democracy in action to me... sounds more like despotism to me. ;-) OK, that was an overstatement. But it's certainly not democracy.

 

[przero]

"Pay attention here people, this is exactly the kind of irrational thinking I'm talking about. "

Why? You got a loved one in one of those cemeteries? Tell that to a Mom that lost her son 49 years ago for a country that will no longer support us. Irrational my ass.

 

[RigorousT]

I'm not a big fan of France. It's easy to boycott them since they produce mostly luxury goods that I can do without. Sure they have some decent stuff, and I don't go around disuading others against buying it... It's just not for me.

It dawned on me these past few months how international this forum is... Most of these vocal US-bashers are foreign. Then I realized --- I really don't care what they say. I mean, I'm sorry they hate us/Bush but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. I won't name names, but there are certain forum members who sound like they would wish the US would just disappear to solve the world's problems. Then I ask... how does fueling that rage supposed to help strengthen international ties, especially among "Allies?"

It's like foreign espionage... The fundamentalists who are invading Iraq to incite more battles and upheaval with the U.S. just so we give up... We have the same sort of thing happening on these forums by people who would hide behind the shroud of friendship. Well, there comes a time when you learn who your true friends are.

 

[Zrom999]

Everyone is knocking France for losing to the Germans (DURING WORLD WAR 2). Where was the US when France was overrun? The British jumped into rowboats and paddled home and the US claimed neutrality and was trying bully Japan (that backfired big time). France doesn't owe the US for doing the right thing and fighting the Nazis. The US owed it to France since the US sat back, allowing the Nazis to take over Europe.

 

[freakflag]

Originally posted by: Zrom999
Everyone is knocking France for losing to the Germans. Where was the US when France was overrun? The British jumped into rowboats and paddled home and the US claimed neutrality and was trying bully Japan (that backfired big time). France doesn't owe the US for doing the right thing and fighting the Nazis. The US owed it to France since the US sat back, allowing the Nazis to take over Europe.

Holy crap...that is the most ignorant thing I've read all day. Congratulations, genius.

 

[Zrom999]

Originally posted by: freakflag

Originally posted by: Zrom999
Everyone is knocking France for losing to the Germans. Where was the US when France was overrun? The British jumped into rowboats and paddled home and the US claimed neutrality and was trying bully Japan (that backfired big time). France doesn't owe the US for doing the right thing and fighting the Nazis. The US owed it to France since the US sat back, allowing the Nazis to take over Europe.

Holy crap...that is the most ignorant thing I've read all day. Congratulations, genius.

Most dumbasses would think that.

 

[freakflag]

Originally posted by: Zrom999

Originally posted by: freakflag

Originally posted by: Zrom999
Everyone is knocking France for losing to the Germans. Where was the US when France was overrun? The British jumped into rowboats and paddled home and the US claimed neutrality and was trying bully Japan (that backfired big time). France doesn't owe the US for doing the right thing and fighting the Nazis. The US owed it to France since the US sat back, allowing the Nazis to take over Europe.

Holy crap...that is the most ignorant thing I've read all day. Congratulations, genius.

Most dumbasses would think that.

LOL...I stand corrected.

That is the most ignorant post I've read today.

 

[przero]

Zrom999 - I agree with the opinion that your view of the German occupation of France is absurd.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: przero
"Pay attention here people, this is exactly the kind of irrational thinking I'm talking about. "

Why? You got a loved one in one of those cemeteries? Tell that to a Mom that lost her son 49 years ago for a country that will no longer support us. Irrational my ass.

Come on, think for yourself! Don't just think whatever Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly or Joe Scarborough or every other conservative commentator tells you to think! First of all, it was not JUST France that refused to go along with our war in Iraq, it was the majority of the U.N. Secondly, do we have to throw a hissy fit because they didn't support our war? Has it ever occurred to anyone that there were justifiable reasons for NOT supporting the war? Maybe other countries didn't see Iraq as being a threat to the United States. I know I never felt threatened by Iraq. If you did, it's because the Bush administration convinced you that you should. It was all marketing, right down to the word "regime." And France did say they would help us with the war if we found "weapons of mass destruction."

As for France selling equipment to Iraq - I don't recall, was it equipment that Iraq was prohibited from having after the last war?

When George W. Bush said "You're either with us or against us," that was a really pompous thing to say. Why does say, Bolivia, have to care one way or another? Can't they be ambivalent?

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: RigorousT
Most of these vocal US-bashers are foreign. Then I realized --- I really don't care what they say.

Yeah, I can't imagine why foreigners hate us so much...

 

[SnowyEnigma]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: SnapIT
Maybe americans don't realize it, but the world laughs at them... "freedom fries" how childish... LOL...

Hmm what is latin for "let them laugh at us".

Ad nostrum rident et permittimus.

With literally means "Towards us they laugh and we let"

It's only my first year in latin, there might be a better way of saying it, but that was 10 (I was searching online for a better way of saying "at", but then realised "at" there really means "towards") mins of good work

 

[AnImuS]

Originally posted by: Zrom999
Everyone is knocking France for losing to the Germans (DURING WORLD WAR 2). Where was the US when France was overrun? The British jumped into rowboats and paddled home and the US claimed neutrality and was trying bully Japan (that backfired big time). France doesn't owe the US for doing the right thing and fighting the Nazis. The US owed it to France since the US sat back, allowing the Nazis to take over Europe.

ya the US owed france american lifes

lmao

 

[ZoZo]

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii
a. You're making the assumption that democracy is the only acceptable form of government. I agree that it is a great form of government, but I think some of the monarchies out there might have an issue with that.
b. Why does ANY country deserve to be a permament member of the the security council, or to have veto power? That doesn't sound like democracy in action to me... sounds more like despotism to me. ;-) OK, that was an overstatement. But it's certainly not democracy.

a) I think you are confusing Republic and Democracy. Republic and Monarchy are types of government, democracy means that the masses have the power. Monarchies in Europe are democracies (UK, Spain, Belgium for example). IMO there's not much difference except that a republic has a president, and a modern democratic monarchy has a royal family which has little or no real power.

b) I'm french and I didn't know whether I should support the idea of waging war in Iraq, but I didn't mind France's opposition. What I disliked is the fact that the french governemnt had veto power. In the security council, members can vote yes or no, or they can choose not to vote. Veto power means that your "no" is so powerful that it can override all the other "yes". So if France didn't weild veto it either had to vote "yes" or to refrain from voting, their no being automatically a veto. I really don't like the veto power.

Now to those who support boycotting France. Go ahead but should this be officially backed by the US government, France would have to take that as some kind of hostile act. The European Union will probably do something about it (boycott US products? if that is even possible!) and it won't be any good for the US. It will just create a very bad climate between the two continents. I don't think it would be a judicious idea. I understand that the US felt especially stabbed in the back by France, because it considered it as a close ally, but you must no forget there were quite a lot of other countries which didn't support the US on Iraq. I remember Bush saying that he respected Turkey's choice because it came by democracy. Now why not France's choice? The Russians had also declared that they would veto any second resolution.
My opinion on the war in Iraq: It was mostly a demonstration of strength from the US to show that the west had not been weakened by democracies (when threatened, democracy is weaker than despotism in general). Also, there was some nice petrol out there as a reward. Unfortunately, they attacked a very weak country which did not pose any threat to the US. For one Saddam Hussein was mostly preoccupied in staying in power, he was scared of his population. And second, he was not a religious man and was actually against Islam, so he could not have had ideas of jihad. He only started pretending that he loved islam once his power weakened after the first Gulf War. He even cried out for jihad just before the war this year, but that was hypocrisy in broad daylight! By the way, have they found those weapons of mass destruction yet?

I think it was quite funny of the americans to change french fries to freedom fries. Both names are just as rediculous. Change it to fried potatoes

 

[Zrom999]

Originally posted by: AnImuS

Originally posted by: Zrom999
Everyone is knocking France for losing to the Germans (DURING WORLD WAR 2). Where was the US when France was overrun? The British jumped into rowboats and paddled home and the US claimed neutrality and was trying bully Japan (that backfired big time). France doesn't owe the US for doing the right thing and fighting the Nazis. The US owed it to France since the US sat back, allowing the Nazis to take over Europe.

ya the US owed france american lifes

lmao

French soldiers died for the US during the American Revolution, but the French don't b*tch and moan about that when they want something from the US. The morons supporting the boycott on France didn't study that far back in history. By the way, where do you think the Statue of Liberty came from? If you hate France so much why don't you go push it over or whine to the gov't to return it?

 

[przero]

Zrom999 - Son, I'll buy what I want from who I want and keep your moron comment to yourself. you want to support the weakest people on the planet, have at it. It's your (or Daddy's) money.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: przero
Zrom999 - Son, I'll buy what I want from who I want and keep your moron comment to yourself. you want to support the weakest people on the planet, have at it. It's your (or Daddy's) money.

This is a public forum. If people like you can post their dribble...than everyone else certainly has the right to post whatever they want as well. What you buy or don't buy is your choice, and no one is telling you any different. French people are the weakest people on the planet? How's the air up there oh super strong one? You might try studying your history, but I'm sure being so superior, you probably know everything anyways.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Originally posted by: przero
Zrom999 - Son, I'll buy what I want from who I want and keep your moron comment to yourself. you want to support the weakest people on the planet, have at it. It's your (or Daddy's) money.

This is a public forum. If people like you can post their dribble...than everyone else certainly has the right to post whatever they want as well. What you buy or don't buy is your choice, and no one is telling you any different. French people are the weakest people on the planet? How's the air up there oh super strong one? You might try studying your history, but I'm sure being so superior, you probably know everything anyways.

That's gunna leave a mark.

 

[Vickas]

Originally posted by: Michael
My desired consequences are twofold:

1) Political pressure on the government. The Wine Industry in France is very influential and it is easy to figure out if the wine in question is French. This is working, French wine sales are down and there is pressure coming from the farmers and businesses.

2) Spread a little pain around France to remind their people that they have the right to chose their own course, but their are consequences.

As a reminder, I speak French fluently and have been to France a ton of times (I was actually in France on vacation on 9/11). I can read the French press directly, I don't need it to be "translated" in an Op-Ed piece.

Michael

Why do you seek to "convert" the French to your view? Disagreement is, in fact, at the heart of democracy. Disagreement fosters change, change gives a society room to grow.

Many people have stated that the nation (both yours and mine) would be grossly incompetent were it not for opposing views sparking debate in the political processes. Consider this, the French (along with Germany and Russia, etc) have a role in the UN as the opposition to those in power. To keep those who might abuse that power on their toes.

Though in that sense, they may not have done that great a job....

Boycott France? I don't see anything standing in your way to do so. Maybe it's because you know why they did this, that you haven't already.

 

[Regs]

The inter-national company I work for is leaded by the French so I'm out. Can't bite the hand that feeds ya, sounds familiar (points at congress) .

Even though I think this whole thing is stupid, I really do not give a damn what the French and German populous think we should do. They have their own agenda in Europe.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: przero
"Pay attention here people, this is exactly the kind of irrational thinking I'm talking about. "

Why? You got a loved one in one of those cemeteries? Tell that to a Mom that lost her son 49 years ago for a country that will no longer support us. Irrational my ass.

I have an uncle buried near Nice. Neither I nor any other family is feeling petty enough to dig him up for your bad temper.

 

[SuperTool]

Bought some Michelins for my mountain bike today, and man are they sweet
All you French haters can shove it. And yes I considered many brands, continental, specialized, etc. But Michellins fit my need the best, and I sure as hell wouldn't let them being from France stop me from having the best damn product for my hard earned dollar.