Brake judder

[Lean L]

I recently developed an issue where when I brake from highway speeds, I get a mild brake judder. Is there anything that I can do to try to fix this before taking it to a repair shop?

I'm thinking it might be cheaper just to order a rotor (I think it is only on one side) and replace it myself rather than go through diagnosis with a mechanic. Do I need to replace pads as well?

2009 Accord EX-l V6

BTW, by judder, I mean the steering wheel shakes, not the brakes. Does that make a difference?

 

[Jimzz]

Do 3-4 hard brakes from 30mph. Get up to speed and hit the brakes hard. have seen that help a bit as some pads can build up on a rotor and a couple hard stops "clean" them off.

 

[soccerballtux]

I recently developed an issue where when I brake from highway speeds, I get a mild brake judder. Is there anything that I can do to try to fix this before taking it to a repair shop?

I'm thinking it might be cheaper just to order a rotor (I think it is only on one side) and replace it myself rather than go through diagnosis with a mechanic. Do I need to replace pads as well?

2009 Accord EX-l V6

no to the pads.
had this problem myself. friend must have driven through pedal. it was worth the $50 from advanced auto parts. you'll need a large C-clamp from homedepot/lowes to push the piston back in a bit to help you fit it over the new, unworn rotor The tolerances were tight enough on mine I had to. I already had one though

 

[Scarpozzi]

I doubt you need to replace the pads UNLESS they're worn.

I typically buy lifetime pads and they wear through rotors a little faster on my car. I typically will try to match rotors. If you hold off and deal with it, you can sometimes get Advance Auto or Autozone coupon codes online to significantly discount your order.... I got 4 new rotors last Fall for $60 out the door. Just a thought.

 

[DaTT]

For the price of pads, I would never replace rotors without doing the pads too.

 

[tweakmonkey]

Sounds like warped rotors, I don't think you'll fix them by driving.

 

[MiataNC]

Assuming the pads and rotors are in good shape...

A couple of hard stops (hard enough to activate the ABS) in forward and reverse gears can clean off buildup on the rotors and pads. This will often cure light pulsation and grinding sounds. I recommend doing this in an empty parking lot.

 

[Lean L]

Would this be a good deal? I know the price would be very similar to buy these individually but this seems premium to me. I'll try to grind the brakes a bit to see if that fixes it.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005FL55XG/ref=gno_cart_title_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2L77EE7U53NWQ

Could this be due to lugs not torqued properly?

 

[Jimzz]

Would this be a good deal? I know the price would be very similar to buy these individually but this seems premium to me. I'll try to grind the brakes a bit to see if that fixes it.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A2L77EE7U53NWQ

Could this be due to lugs not torqued properly?

Don't get drilled/slotted rotors. Get the premium centric or raybestos rotors. The Caps will be painted black.

 

[thomsbrain]

Yeah, this is almost certainly pad transfer to the rotor, which can be cleaned off by re-bedding the pads (those repeated hard stops people are talking about), or by having the rotors "turned" or "resurfaced" at an auto parts store, or by replacing them. Boiling brake fluid can also cause judder, so if you are taking off the wheels, I recommend a simple fluid flush while you are at.

If you do re-surface or replace the rotors, do them in pairs. And be prepared to drill out the stupid little screws that hold the rotor in place. They always rust on Hondas and often need to be drilled out. Once they're out, don't replace the screws, as they are unnecessary for function and are purely for convenience when putting the caliper back on over the rotor.

 

[Midwayman]

Warped rotors are rarely actually warped. More often its pad material build up. Rebed before doing anything else. Also when you rebed, make sure you don't come to a stop with the brakes hot. That'll leave a spot on the rotor. Either do it a where you can drive around for awhile at high speeds to cool them off or come to a full stop with your parking brake when you park it.

 

[JCH13]

Op - try re-bedding or cleaning off the rotor surface. Otherwise, just replace the rotors and pads and call it a day (only in sets!)

Sounds like warped rotors, I don't think you'll fix them by driving.

Warped brake rotors do not often happen: http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths

 

[tweakmonkey]

Warped brake rotors do not often happen: http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths

Oh wow - thanks for the link. I guess I usually just replaced them when this happened so I never realized it was from pad material.

 

[Jimzz]

Yeah, this is almost certainly pad transfer to the rotor, which can be cleaned off by re-bedding the pads (those repeated hard stops people are talking about), or by having the rotors "turned" or "resurfaced" at an auto parts store, or by replacing them. Boiling brake fluid can also cause judder, so if you are taking off the wheels, I recommend a simple fluid flush while you are at.

If you do re-surface or replace the rotors, do them in pairs. And be prepared to drill out the stupid little screws that hold the rotor in place. They always rust on Hondas and often need to be drilled out. Once they're out, don't replace the screws, as they are unnecessary for function and are purely for convenience when putting the caliper back on over the rotor.

Only time I have seen them stripped is when people try and use a screwdriver to remove them.
There is a tool made to remove them. Its less than $20 at most places like sears.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-impac...p-00947641000P

Only ones I have had to drill are due to the customer trying to remove them before they gave up and brought it to my shop.

 

[phucheneh]

Op - try re-bedding or cleaning off the rotor surface. Otherwise, just replace the rotors and pads and call it a day (only in sets!)

Warped brake rotors do not often happen: http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths

You know I like you, man. I do.

But ugh...shut uuuuppppp. ;P

There is as much misinformation out there with the current trend of announcing 'LOL warped rotors no such thing' as there was with the ideas that that statement is attempting to correct.

'Rebedding' the pads is something is never going to work on any normal road car. Ever. Perhaps it has some validity on a track car or something. But it's not going to remove the 'warp'...'thickness variation'...'non-parrallelyness'...whatever you wanna call it...that has taken thousands of miles to occur. And once it starts to happen, it only gets worse; it does not stop. Warped rotors are like Lays potato chips.

And I have no issue calling them 'warped.' When you take the rotors off a car with brake pulsation, chuck them up on a lathe, and make a minor cut past the point where the bits first contact the rotor surface...talking like .002-.004" or so...you can immediately see what is going on. Part of the rotor will be cut, part of it will not. The uncut portion will usually be in the shape of a crescent. I fail to see how it is at all inaccurate to describe that surface as 'warped,' i.e. not level.

I'd like to smack the jackass from Stoptech that wrote that shitty article that I will have to endure popping up all over the internet for the rest of time.

 

[phucheneh]

Here's what a 'warped' rotor looks like when it hasn't had quite enough material machined off of it.

Just FYI.

Call it something else if you want, and attribute it to whatever cause you want*, but don't give people shit for using the term 'warped'...whose dictionary definition is, essentially, 'not flat.'

*except lug nut torque, because that's bullshit.

 

[kmmatney]

My wife's 2008 Toyota Sienna had brake judder issues. I replaced the front pads- still judder. I replaced the front rotors - still judder. I then bled all the brakes. I used a 1-man brake bleeding kit from Amazon, and the whole process wasn't too painful. However they still juddered. I replaced the rear pads (even though they looked OK) - still judder. I then replaced the rear rotors, and the judder went away and the brakes work great. The old rear rotors didn't look to bad to me, but replacing them seemed to do the trick. This was at 100K miles.

PS - I didn't have to do any drilling to remove my rotors, but dealing with the parking brake on the rear rotors was a bit of a pain. The parking brake shoes just didn't want to let go.

 

[Zenmervolt]

I'm thinking it might be cheaper just to order a rotor (I think it is only on one side) and replace it myself rather than go through diagnosis with a mechanic. Do I need to replace pads as well?

When replacing pads or rotors, you always do both sides of the same axle together. Never do just a single rotor.

While you don't necessarily need to replace the pads as well, it's a convenient "while you're in there" sort of thing to do if the pads are getting on in life.

Personally, I've had strong success with the "several hard stops" method of eliminating brake pulsing, but I also tend to notice it early. The method probably has less success if the issue has been happening for more than a day or two.

ZV

 

[JCH13]

You know I like you, man. I do.

But ugh...shut uuuuppppp. ;P

There is as much misinformation out there with the current trend of announcing 'LOL warped rotors no such thing' as there was with the ideas that that statement is attempting to correct.

'Rebedding' the pads is something is never going to work on any normal road car. Ever. Perhaps it has some validity on a track car or something. But it's not going to remove the 'warp'...'thickness variation'...'non-parrallelyness'...whatever you wanna call it...that has taken thousands of miles to occur. And once it starts to happen, it only gets worse; it does not stop. Warped rotors are like Lays potato chips.

And I have no issue calling them 'warped.' When you take the rotors off a car with brake pulsation, chuck them up on a lathe, and make a minor cut past the point where the bits first contact the rotor surface...talking like .002-.004" or so...you can immediately see what is going on. Part of the rotor will be cut, part of it will not. The uncut portion will usually be in the shape of a crescent. I fail to see how it is at all inaccurate to describe that surface as 'warped,' i.e. not level.

I'd like to smack the jackass from Stoptech that wrote that shitty article that I will have to endure popping up all over the internet for the rest of time.

I think the caveats at the start of the article are the most important part:

"presuming that the hub and wheel flange are flat and in good condition and that the wheel bolts or hat mounting hardware is in good condition, installed correctly and tightened uniformly and in the correct order to the recommended torque specification"

You can call the guy's reasons bullshit all you want, but they're based on his experience. Just because you haven't seen the same things doesn't mean that he hasn't.

There are several reasons why brake rotors could be "not flat" which include damaged mounting hardware, crud on the hub face/rotor mounting face, or manufacturing defects. The implication when saying 'warped' is that the rotor has lots its flatness due to heat input. One can argue semantics from here until kingdom come about what a "warped" rotor is, but there's a big practical difference between a rotor that has gotten screwed up from a hub/mounting issue, pad material mal-distribution, and brake heat causing the rotor to deform.

You're probably right that simply re-bedding the pads wouldn't work. I should I have said: "clean the rotors and then re-bed the pads" which would restart distributing pad material around the rotor, hopefully without screwing up again.

 

[Mark R]

I'm kinda wondering whether to hijack this thread but I was going to post a near identical question.

I took my car out to the "mountains" over the weekend for some "spirited" driving.

Anyway, after about 5 miles, of twisting roads, I started to get a buzzing from the brakes, coming through the pedal when braking hard. After about 10 miles this changed from a buzz into a vigorous shaking, and by 12 miles, it was intolerable and I had to stop.

Interestingly, it didn't come through the steering, just the pedal and the seat.

Normally the car brakes very smoothly, and when I took it out yesterday, the brakes were back to their normal smoothness. I'm guessing that the juddering in this case must be due to heat.

I've got slotted rotors on the front with ceramic pads, and the rotors and pads look brand new, although they've got about 5k miles on them. I've got OEM on the back, and the discs are scored and blue, and the pads look a little melted on the edges.

Any ideas, what the issue is? Did I just overheat the brakes? Could it have been the rear brakes, given that they are OEM, whereas I have uprated brakes on the front? Could it be something else, suspension bushings (I'm guessing not, as it got better when cold).

 

[thomsbrain]

Only time I have seen them stripped is when people try and use a screwdriver to remove them.
There is a tool made to remove them. Its less than $20 at most places like sears.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-impac...p-00947641000P

Only ones I have had to drill are due to the customer trying to remove them before they gave up and brought it to my shop.

I have one of those. It works maaaaybe 25% of the time. With Honda rotors and pads going well over 100,000 miles between changes, some of those screws aren't coming out without a drill.

 

[thomsbrain]

I'm kinda wondering whether to hijack this thread but I was going to post a near identical question.

I took my car out to the "mountains" over the weekend for some "spirited" driving.

Anyway, after about 5 miles, of twisting roads, I started to get a buzzing from the brakes, coming through the pedal when braking hard. After about 10 miles this changed from a buzz into a vigorous shaking, and by 12 miles, it was intolerable and I had to stop.

Interestingly, it didn't come through the steering, just the pedal and the seat.

Normally the car brakes very smoothly, and when I took it out yesterday, the brakes were back to their normal smoothness. I'm guessing that the juddering in this case must be due to heat.

I've got slotted rotors on the front with ceramic pads, and the rotors and pads look brand new, although they've got about 5k miles on them. I've got OEM on the back, and the discs are scored and blue, and the pads look a little melted on the edges.

Any ideas, what the issue is? Did I just overheat the brakes? Could it have been the rear brakes, given that they are OEM, whereas I have uprated brakes on the front? Could it be something else, suspension bushings (I'm guessing not, as it got better when cold).

I'm guessing you were boiling your rear brake fluid. I'd also guess you have non-vented rear rotors and vented front rotors, which is why the rear boiled first. Time to flush the entire system with new fluid. It's cheap to do.

 

[Lean L]

Do I just suck at finding deals? The cheapest rotors I can find for the accord are $35 each.

Which is why that slotted rotor deal looks enticing to me. I'm searching for an area that I can brake though. Hard to find in the area.

 

[Lean L]

BTW, by judder, I mean the steering wheel shakes, not the brakes. Does that make a difference?

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Rotors, needs slides lubed, or bad calipers. Maybe all the above.