Brazos Testing Requests

[cbn]

Finally, the comparison netbooks/laptops are... well, lacking. I've got Atom N550 but without ION. No one wants to send a current ION netbook right now (probably with good reason).

I think it would be interesting to see a C50 vs N550 comparison (or even a single core atom vs single core Ontario) aimed primarily at the casual user.

With Windows 7 Starter OS restricting the use of an external monitor how much difference in video playback performance exists at typical netbook resolutions? (particularly power consumption as C50 has more GPU for spreading the load.)

 

[azrah]

Any clues on what the "one on the way" is? Here's hoping for an Asus 1215B.

Would love to see how well this thing does outputting video over hdmi at different resolutions and from different sources.

It was great to see a review of the dm1z that showed how the back panel could be taken off. That was really the first review for the dm1z I've seen that gave much mention to that feature. I'd love to see that kind of info on upgradeability on other Brazos laptops.

 

[JarredWalton]

Someone sent me an email asking for some benchmark results for StarCraft II with two recent replays:

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/replays/43293
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/replays/43216

Both are the same map, and Protoss vs. Zerg, so results are similar. Here's what I've found in terms of performance. First, the 26+ minute game, from the Protoss perspective.

Time:      MIN | AVG  | MAX
0-2 min:   7.2 | 44.3 | 69.5
2-4 min:   6.7 | 39.1 | 65.6
4-6 min:   6.4 | 34.2 | 54.4
6-8 min:   5.8 | 29.6 | 54.8
8-10 min:  5.1 | 22.4 | 41.4
10-12 min: 1.6 | 19.8 | 48.6
12-14 min: 4.2 | 19.2 | 42.3
14-16 min: 1.7 | 17.1 | 39.6
16-18 min: 4.0 | 16.1 | 39.8
18-20 min: 3.0 | 12.4 | 24.3
20-22 min: 1.4 | 13.9 | 25.0
22-24 min: 3.2 | 11.2 | 22.2
24-26 min: 3.4 | 11.0 | 21.7

Here's the second ~16 minute match, this time from the Zerg perspective:

Time:      MIN | AVG  | MAX
0-2 min:   6.4 | 38.8 | 66.8
2-4 min:   5.4 | 37.5 | 63.42
4-6 min:   6.0 | 34.4 | 69.7
6-8 min:   5.9 | 27.6 | 48.6
8-10 min:  5.4 | 27.0 | 54.2
10-12 min: 4.8 | 22.2 | 47.3
12-14 min: 4.6 | 19.5 | 41.6
14-16 min: 3.4 | 15.5 | 41.7
16-End:    4.1 | 16.7 | 24.4

The pattern is generally consistent with most games: at the beginning, performance is fine, but as more units hit the map things really start to bog down. What isn't entirely clear is how much of this is a CPU bottleneck, and what impact (if any) memory bandwidth is having. Considering we see generally better performance in SC2 with Athlon II P340 and HD 4250, it's a pretty safe bet that most of the slowdown is the Bobcat cores.

 

[JarredWalton]

@azrah:

So the HP dm1z review is done, I'm working on the MSI X370 (similar performance, larger chassis), and Vivek has an Acer AO522 (C-50). That last one will be a bit more interesting in terms of seeing what it can/can't do relative to Atom. He stopped by yesterday and I played with it briefly; it felt generally faster than single-core Atom, but I'll have to wait to test it more.

Once we're done with the initial reviews, part 2 of the Brazos laptop coverage will compare MSI X370. Acer AO522, Gateway EC54 (CULV Pentium SU4100), Toshiba T235D (Nile), and HP Mini 5103 (Atom N550) -- all using a 60GB value SSD.

 

[Beraid]

I'd love to see Folding@Home results with the E-350/C-50 with at least the SMP client if not classic as well

Aside from that maybe Minecraft frames per second with settings at Normal & Fancy

 

[codedivine]

Ok here is a rather different request. Is it possible to run some GPGPU benchmarks on it?

1. First, I am interested in the speed of data copy between CPU and GPU. For discrete cards, it is usually equal to PCI express speed. Here is a test from AMD that tests the data copy speeds (windows executable included)
http://developer.amd.com/gpu/amdapppowertoy/pages/default.aspx
(Download PCIeSpeedTest which will test data copy speed and not PCIe speed in this case)

2. Second, if you can install and run the AMD APP SDK 2.3, then it also includes some simple GPGPU samples (particularly matrix multiplication) that you can potentially try out. Note that it has CAL samples and OpenCL samples and both should be interesting.
http://developer.amd.com/gpu/AMDAPPSDK/downloads/Pages/default.aspx

 

[malih16]

hi, i registered cause i want to post here,

I'm wondering whether the CPU on Zacate systems (and other reviewed laptops) are powerful enough to play the most taxing 1080p video without GPU acceleration, and also how does it affect battery life. I found some quite taxing demo video from here (especially one 1080p japanese anime video with embedded karaoke subtitle).

This is because i never see it mentioned (or perhaps i missed it) on netbook reviews, usually they just test GPU acceleration, and they have limitation with 1080p videos. And because I like to watch movies while traveling.

 

[ericlp]

http://www.fatwallet.com/best-laptop-deals/gateway-nv51b08u-15-6-laptop-w-amd-c50-dual-core/

I just got that... First thoughts. After un-installing crap ware... And reloading the latest ati drivers... It's slow... Tho it's the low end c50 1ghz dual cores and using lower end 6250 GPU.

Tho, the good is... It's quick with Chrome. I tried loading Unreal GOTY '99 version ... It's pathetic, tho I used open GL. Maybe unreal is so old it's just not optimized for newer ati drivers? Shrug. Anyone know any tricks to make an OLD game run good for newer ATI GPU?

I would hate to run F@H on a C-50. It's slow enough as it is. Probably just make the fun run all the time ...

But, pros are... It's small / lightweight ... 15.6 screen is nice. 1 speaker kinda sucks tho it gets the job done. I chatted on Skype with built in CAM and no real lag tho I did it over wireless it seems to do the job if your on the road. If all you want it for is doing quick web stuff (chrome) / skype / I'm also plugging in MJ. Built in Microphone seems to work well for both skype and MJ.

I bought this travel for a few months. My plans are that I can turn this into an ALWAYS on 24 hours PC to do XBMC, MJ server, quick web searches and maybe skype... since it only runs at 9 watts including the GPU load... I think it would make a great always on PC when you don't want to turn on your main rig just to send out an email or print out a map etc...etc...

I haven't tested HD media yet. Tho, utube hasn't choked yet. I got a few HD 40Gig movies I could throw at it to see how well it may handle it. Tho.. for 350 bucks it's pretty nice. My main reason in getting it was I didn't want to burn up my lap, I didn't want a noisy fan running all the time. It seems to have all the goodies. HDMI, Card Reader, DVD drive, 3 USB ports... not too big but 15" seems just right for net surfing.

I guess if all you gonna use it for is too keep in touch on the road you can't do much better.

Would be nice if this chip option was stuck in a tablet! I'm not sure how much LAG windows 7 is giving it. But I'm sure if it was optimized with a stripped down droid honeycomb OS it would rock with this chip! If it had a built in web cam with USB ports and HDMI out I'd probably buy it that instead.

If you do end up buying one of these AMD cores ... Best thing you can do is turn off indexing services... Yank out things like MS silverlight, Adobe crap ware. Maybe just add foxit reader. Dunno there are a lot of services in MS you can just STOP that bogs down these machines. There are a lot of guides out there for doing this. Tho, if anyone wants to recommend a good guide for optimizing win 7 ... go for it!

 

[Zap]

I'm wondering whether the CPU on Zacate systems (and other reviewed laptops) are powerful enough to play the most taxing 1080p video without GPU acceleration, and also how does it affect battery life.

That's a good idea actually. There can be some instances where you can't get GPU acceleration (for instance if you really like an older software player, or when using some software combos with older OS).

 

[JarredWalton]

That's a good idea actually. There can be some instances where you can't get GPU acceleration (for instance if you really like an older software player, or when using some software combos with older OS).

Anand already covered this in the nettop Brazos review:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4134/3

The E-350 laptops should score the same as Anand's tests. As for C-50, I'll be looking at that in the not-too-distant future. I expect it will fail a lot more tests than the E-350, since it has much lower CPU and GPU clocks (about 60% of the E-350 clocks).

 

[Eyeless Blond]

Re. the recent review:

Did you know that the dm1z has fan control software? Software that actually works? It's tucked away amongst all the crapware you probably threw out when you reinstalled Win7.

It's called the HP Thermal Assistant, installed, unfortunately, as part of a package with the HP Support Assistant (which is actually an OK program for non-powerusers). It would actually be great to see the dm1z review updated with that in mind: under the Quiet profile the fan almost never turns on, and the machine is truly quiet most of the time.

Be careful, though: the Support Assistant actually schedules a monthly defrag in its settings; with an SSD installed you'll probably want to disable that.

 

[Eyeless Blond]

BTW, do we know if that readout from CPUID is actually accurate? I mean, after installing software and the like I can feel the air blowing out of the exhaust, and it doesn't feel anything like 150-degrees; maybe the CPU temp is being reported incorrectly?

 

[traest]

Hey all, I'd like to offer up an addition if its not too late. I'd be interested in knowing what the differences in speed would be between XP and 7 (I hope that all the tests are done with bloatware/crapware removed).

I'm really looking forward to getting one of these AMD E-350 machines and I'd like to know if it is better to put on XP for general, light(er)-weight stuff. From my perspective, 7 seems like it would be a little too bloated where XP would probably be better. I'd like to see some information in this area if possible.

I really liked Dustin's review on the HP dm1z and I'm looking forward to more.

 

[malih16]

Anand already covered this in the nettop Brazos review:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4134/3

The E-350 laptops should score the same as Anand's tests. As for C-50, I'll be looking at that in the not-too-distant future. I expect it will fail a lot more tests than the E-350, since it has much lower CPU and GPU clocks (about 60% of the E-350 clocks).

I guess I missed that, well then, I hope for the Anandtech Media Streamer Suite benchmark to be included in your test, to see how the other systems tested compare to Brazos.

 

[Concillian]

As someone who knows about computers, the main laptop question I get asked is something along the lines of "is it enough to play WoW. Unfortunately, WoW benchmarks in the open world mean next to nothing, as ANYTHING interesting in WoW is instanced (raids, battlegrounds, party play, arenas.) So the majority of WoW benchmarks don't tell me anything interesting.

All the people I know who use laptops either get them from work (and thus don't ask me questions, because they get whatever their work gives them) or they use them on the road for little more than a facebook device ... and WoW. I suspect this is not adequate for even smaller raids, but it would be good to have some confirmation.

 

[miahallen]

Sorry to be OT but...

ASUS A8R32-MVP Deluxe
Opteron 165 @ 2.4GHz
OCZ 2x1GB PC4000 (PCZ5001024EBPE)
RAM set to DDR-333 = DDR-438 3-3-3-8-2T
ATI X1900 XT CrossFire
Antec SLK3700 case w/550W InWin PSU

Is that really your current rig?

 

[irev210]

It would be nice if you compared it to the Acer AS1830T-3505 (i3-330UM).

At ~$450-500 it's about the same price point, same size screen, similar specs, etc.

Why wouldn't you compare these?

 

[casteve]

Looking at the HP dm1z's battery life tests, the average idle power is ~6W DC and it uses ~12W DC when playing 720p x264. Wow. Add a USB TV tuner* and you've got a very low power media center /DVR. Granted, I don't think I'd use this device to rip my library, but it seems to be the lowest power solution for general media playback/DVR function.

Any problems with HDMI connectivity to 1080P receivers/TVs?
Any issues recording OTA 1080i? (cpu utilization, timer wake from sleep, etc)


*http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815116034

 

[obidamnkenobi]

Not sure I see the value in knowing that these laptops get <15-20 fps in Mass effect 2, BC2 etc.. I agree that some older games would make more sense. Of course getting a consensus on which to use might be hard.

Personally I havent' gamed on a laptop in years, and it's not very appealing to me to play a FPS on a 11" screen with a trackpad.. I want to pick up the dm1z, but would like to run Civ 4 on it, or GalCiv2 or similar turn based game (time killer, don't require accuracy). In one test of the dm1z I saw claimed he got 2h 45 min in Civ4 on battery, a test of this would be interesting.

 

[JarredWalton]

BTW, do we know if that readout from CPUID is actually accurate? I mean, after installing software and the like I can feel the air blowing out of the exhaust, and it doesn't feel anything like 150-degrees; maybe the CPU temp is being reported incorrectly?

I've asked Dustin to check results with HP Support Assistant enabled -- note that he did not reinstall Win7, but he probably did remove/disable HP Support (since it has a habit of popping up all too often in my experience, which can screw with battery testing and the like). As for HWMonitor, the temperature is internal on the CPU, which is always a lot hotter than the exhaust temperature. As a point of reference, the hottest air I've seen coming out of a modern laptop was around 50C; the HWMonitor results showed the GPU hitting 90C and the CPU at 75-80C. Most chips are rated to run at up to 95C internally, though, so that's not a problem.

 

[JarredWalton]

Sorry to be OT but...

Is that really your current rig?

LOL... no. My current work PC is a Gateway FX530 with a single HD 5670 GPU and 4GB RAM running Win7 64-bit. It has a couple 150GB Raptor drives in RAID 0 and a 1TB mass storage drive. It works, it has all my stuff on it, and I've just been too lazy to switch. Funny enough, my gaming rig is quite a bit more powerful.

Gigabyte X58A-UDR3 mobo
Core i7-965X CPU @ up to 3.6GHz
Xigmatek Rifle HSF
2x HD 5850 CrossFire GPU
Crucial Tracer 6x2GB DDR3-1600 (overkill!)
120GB Vertex 2 OS/Apps SSD
120GB Vertex "Games" SSD
Lian Li P71B case
450W ThermalTake LitePower PSU (yeah, only 450W!)
DoubleSight 30" LCD (not really a great 30" model, honestly)

 

[Eyeless Blond]

I've asked Dustin to check results with HP Support Assistant enabled -- note that he did not reinstall Win7, but he probably did remove/disable HP Support (since it has a habit of popping up all too often in my experience, which can screw with battery testing and the like). As for HWMonitor, the temperature is internal on the CPU, which is always a lot hotter than the exhaust temperature. As a point of reference, the hottest air I've seen coming out of a modern laptop was around 50C; the HWMonitor results showed the GPU hitting 90C and the CPU at 75-80C. Most chips are rated to run at up to 95C internally, though, so that's not a problem.

Heh, right. I should have kept that in mind, too.

Is it the Support Assistant that keeps popping up, or the Software Update? Honestly, there's so much crapware installed on HP laptops I just nuked it all and just installed the pieces that were recommended by the enthusiasts on HP's forums (wireless drivers, touchpad drivers, Support Assistant, sound and a couple of other things from the SWSetup folder, AMD's own graphics drivers, that's basically it). So much easier than wading through the mess that Decrapifier pulls up.

 

[JarredWalton]

Heh, right. I should have kept that in mind, too.

Is it the Support Assistant that keeps popping up, or the Software Update? Honestly, there's so much crapware installed on HP laptops I just nuked it all and just installed the pieces that were recommended by the enthusiasts on HP's forums (wireless drivers, touchpad drivers, Support Assistant, sound and a couple of other things from the SWSetup folder, AMD's own graphics drivers, that's basically it). So much easier than wading through the mess that Decrapifier pulls up.

Just found out that Dustin already shipped the dm1z back, so no retesting will happen. Oh well. Sorry!

 

[ericlp]

If your really interested in a c-50 chip... This is a good thread...

http://forum.notebookreview.com/gam...cpu-6250-gpu-performance-acer-522-review.html

Helped me decide to purchase my own c-50 gateway.

I was getting really bad dropped frames playing just some simple mkv 720P @ about 10 gig files...

"VLC you have to go to Preference->Codecs->Enable GPU Accel." 1080P 30Gig files work great! No problems what-so-ever plays very smoothly. The fusion 6250 GPU kicks now the only time lose frames is when I advance or rewind. I think that's normal tho. Was checking CPU usage when playing a 720P movie it mostly stays at around low 20&#37; tho it can spike into the 30% or dip into the teens.

 

[Eyeless Blond]

Just found out that Dustin already shipped the dm1z back, so no retesting will happen. Oh well. Sorry!

Drat! For the sake of completeness, could you at least update the review to mention that there is integrated fan controller software? I'd have never ordered the laptop if I had heard it was noisy (a bit of a quiet freak myself).