Breaking Bad Season 5 - Official Discussion Thread

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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,002
5,892
126
Possibly. It clearly shows that they're not very careful. They're talking too loudly in public places and not doing enough to cover their tracks. Maybe the blood on the towel in the toilet is only a red herring, but it was shown for a reason. Even if it isn't found it *could* have been found.

It also shows that they're moving back to New Mexico from Arizona. I imagine that's going to be important too.

yeah i don't think the bloody paper towel will have any significance, just another way to show us that they really aren't careful about what they are doing. its kind of like a "whoops some blood on my shoes better clean this up to cover my track" then he goes to dispose of the towel, and is juts as careless as he was prior since he doesn't even watch if it goes down the tubes.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
I'm hoping for a big twist at the end where it's revealed that Walt Jr. has been bullying Walt into cooking meth the entire time because he needs the money to buy up all the bacon and eggs in the southwest.

in the final scene, we'll see Walt Jr put down the crutches, walk normally, and the camera will pan out to reveal a giant map with all the Denny's in the Southwest under crosshairs.
 

BrokenVisage

Lifer
Jan 29, 2005
24,770
12
81
The point is that Walt can potentially help the Aryan Brotherhood guys make a shitload more money with the methylamine than they can make without him (this is, in fact, the very pitch Walt successfully made to Declan - "say my name!"). Presumably they don't care a great deal whether they sell the meth through their own channels or whether it goes to Lydia, but they probably do care about maximizing their profits. Potentially if they could make the 99.1% pure meth with Walt's help they might be able to cut a better deal with the increasingly desperate Lydia.

Whatever the mechanics turn out to be, I can guarantee you we will see more interaction (perhaps even the show's final showdown) between the Aryans and Walt. It's even possible the reason Walt comes back from NH is to protect Hank or even Jesse from them in a last-ditch effort to end his life on a morally positive note.

That's all well and good, plus I agree with you that Walt can absolute game-change their operation, but the original point I was trying to make to Ned is that Walt is truly out and Todd was just checking-in with him now that Declan is gone. Possibly an important scene in the future but right now I can't read too much into it.

Put it this way, I don't think we can assume yet that Lydia is trying to play Todd to get Walt back into cooking like Gus was using Jesse early in Season 3 to do the same thing. We have no indication that Walt and Todd bonded to the point that he could have that pull on him. Lydia will use the spear to get what she wants.
 
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Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
That's all well and good, plus I agree with you that Walt can absolute game-change their operation, but the original point I was trying to make to Ned is that Walt is truly out and Todd was just checking-in with him now that Declan is gone. Possibly an important scene in the future but right now I can't read too much into it.

I think Todd makes another batch, it comes in around 71% again (or maybe he starts another fire). Then his uncle decides they have to get Walt back, even if Walt doesn't want to.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
66
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I think Todd makes another batch, it comes in around 71% again (or maybe he starts another fire). Then his uncle decides they have to get Walt back, even if Walt doesn't want to.

I agree this seems like a very viable plotline.

I had been thinking, during season 5 (I will call the current one 5A), even before Hank found the Walt Whitman book, that this season had to be defined by the conflict between Hank and Walt, since the late Mike had seemed to be the only other character "big" enough to seriously threaten Walt. I no longer think that. Even now that Hank knows Walt is Heisenberg, he has very little real, legal evidence of it, and his knowledge of the details remains skeletal. Meanwhile, since a) Walt paid $177K for his PT, b) he doesn't want to lose his career, and c) Jesse won't play ball, his ability to go after Walt through official channels is very limited. At this point I see Hank as weak and pretty vulnerable, even if Walt won't participate in a scheme to kill him.

I know how much some people hate Skyler, but at this point I think her long-term fate is one of the most interesting variables left. It's very hard to imagine what the rest of her life would look like even if Walt dies and/or goes to prison. Her family hates her and her other romantic interest, Ted, is terrified of her. It seems like a very lonely position (and maybe that's part of the reason she is feeling protective of Walt despite the circumstances).
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,002
5,892
126
I agree this seems like a very viable plotline.

I had been thinking, during season 5 (I will call this 5A), even before Hank found the Walt Whitman book, that this season had to be defined by the conflict between Hank and Walt, since Mike had seemed to be the only other character "big" enough to seriously threaten Walt. I no longer think that. Even now that Hank knows Walt is Heisenberg, he has very little real, legal evidence of it, and his knowledge of the details remains skeletal. Meanwhile, since a) Walt paid $177K for his PT, b) he doesn't want to lose his career, and c) Jesse won't play ball, his ability to go after Walt through official channels is very limited. At this point I see Hank as weak and pretty vulnerable, even if Walt won't participate in a scheme to kill him.

I know how much some people hate Skyler, but at this point I think her long-term fate is one of the most interesting variables left. It's very hard to imagine what the rest of her life would look like even if Walt dies and/or goes to prison. Her family hates her and her other romantic interest, Ted, is terrified of her. It seems like a very lonely position (and maybe that's part of the reason she is feeling protective of Walt despite the circumstances).

i don't think that will happen simply because hank has said, directly to walts face at dinner, that death is too easy of a way out for him. but, that was also before the "confession".
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
I don't think the story is going this way, but I really wonder how a trial would run if you had fumbling school teacher Walt accused of cooking meth by his big bad DEA brother-in-law and a drug addict.
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
I know how much some people hate Skyler, but at this point I think her long-term fate is one of the most interesting variables left. It's very hard to imagine what the rest of her life would look like even if Walt dies and/or goes to prison. Her family hates her and her other romantic interest, Ted, is terrified of her. It seems like a very lonely position (and maybe that's part of the reason she is feeling protective of Walt despite the circumstances).

Better call Saul!
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,996
126
Even now that Hank knows Walt is Heisenberg, he has very little real, legal evidence of it, and his knowledge of the details remains skeletal. Meanwhile, since a) Walt paid $177K for his PT, b) he doesn't want to lose his career, and c) Jesse won't play ball, his ability to go after Walt through official channels is very limited. At this point I see Hank as weak and pretty vulnerable, even if Walt won't participate in a scheme to kill him.

Are we still sure that Jesse won't play ball? A whole lot has changed since Jesse refused to help Hank in that interrogation room. Since it seems impossible that Jesse succeeds in burning down Walt's house, he's going to do something else. He might try to kill Walt personally and he might see Hank as a perfect way to get to Walt. Given the history between Hank and Jesse it would be entertaining irony to see them team up to nail Walt.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
66
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Are we still sure that Jesse won't play ball? A whole lot has changed since Jesse refused to help Hank in that interrogation room. Since it seems impossible that Jesse succeeds in burning down Walt's house, he's going to do something else. He might try to kill Walt personally and he might see Hank as a perfect way to get to Walt. Given the history between Hank and Jesse it would be entertaining irony to see them team up to nail Walt.

I doubt it. He has never shown any willingness to cooperate with the police, under any circumstances. The fact that he reacted to learning about Walt's theft of the ricin cigarette by attempting to burn his house down, rather than going to the DEA, is a reminder of the sort of person he is. Even if he were thinking rationally (and he isn't), he would know that he can't possibly trust Hank to protect him against a) Walt and b) spending the rest of his life in prison. If memory serves he even remarked to Saul that it looked as though Hank was handling this on his own, without the might of the DEA behind him. My sense is that if Hank and Jesse were somehow to team up to get Walt, it wouldn't be through any law-enforcement channels - it would be some kind of conspiracy to kidnap and kill him (something I can't imagine Hank doing, and probably not Jesse either).

What I love is that they have created a situation where this could play out so many ways (and of course your speculation is just as good as mine). All we know for sure, more or less, is that Walt will not live to see his 53rd birthday.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,996
126
All we know for sure, more or less, is that Walt will not live to see his 53rd birthday.


I'm not even completely convinced of that much. While I seriously doubt that Vince allows Walt to live through this, I'd LOVE to see an ending with his family dead, his empire in ruins, the cancer in remission and Walt in jail for life. And I'm going to keep rooting for it to play out like that.Just like Walt's suicide would be the easy way out, his death would be almost as easy. It would be far worse to see him have to live with the worst possible consequences.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
66
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I'm not even completely convinced of that much. While I seriously doubt that Vince allows Walt to live through this, I'd LOVE to see an ending with his family dead, his empire in ruins, the cancer in remission and Walt in jail for life. And I'm going to keep rooting for it to play out like that.Just like Walt's suicide would be the easy way out, his death would be almost as easy. It would be far worse to see him have to live with the worst possible consequences.

I don't see Gilligan killing off the family, none of whom deserve it.
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
I'm not even completely convinced of that much. While I seriously doubt that Vince allows Walt to live through this, I'd LOVE to see an ending with his family dead, his empire in ruins, the cancer in remission and Walt in jail for life. And I'm going to keep rooting for it to play out like that.Just like Walt's suicide would be the easy way out, his death would be almost as easy. It would be far worse to see him have to live with the worst possible consequences.

I think Walt dies too.

But
one of the upcoming episodes is entitled "Ozymandius," lot of portent there.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,996
126
I don't see Gilligan killing off the family, none of whom deserve it.

Skyler most definitely deserves it.

And the kids dying without deserving it is the whole damn point. The ending has to be Walt suffering for his actions and nothing would make Walt suffer more than to be forced to live with the guilt over his family dying because of his own actions. It's dark and depressing and 99.9% likely Vince won't go there. But he should as that is the most powerful message that could be sent. Not that a life of crime is bad for the perp, that's already been established with the deaths of Crazy Eight, Tuco, Gus, Mike, his crew, Declan, Gale, etc. It's the collateral damage that Walt would be forced to face that would make things more satisfying.

And hell, Vince doesn't even need to kill the kids. Skyler dies, kids get taken away by the state, Walt is all alone in prison never to see his family again. Almost as good, and better for the namby pamby viewers who think it's too violent for FICTIONAL children to die.
 

dr150

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2003
6,570
24
81
I think Walt dies too.

But
one of the upcoming episodes is entitled "Ozymandius," lot of portent there.

Knowing this generation of TV execs and the huge value of BB, I bet they convinced Gilligan to keep "golden goose" Walt alive in the end for the potential of a new series down the road....sort of like Frasier--new city/new life....or Jack Bauer.
 
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Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
Knowing this generation TV execs and the huge value of BB, I bet they convinced Gilligan to keep Walt alive in the end for the potential of a new series down the road....sort of like Frasier....new city, new life.

The new series Gilligan is pitching is centered on Saul. AMC has first refusal rights.

Could be interesting, I imagine it would be a lot lighter and more comedic than BB.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
66
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Skyler most definitely deserves it.

And the kids dying without deserving it is the whole damn point. The ending has to be Walt suffering for his actions and nothing would make Walt suffer more than to be forced to live with the guilt over his family dying because of his own actions. It's dark and depressing and 99.9% likely Vince won't go there. But he should as that is the most powerful message that could be sent. Not that a life of crime is bad for the perp, that's already been established with the deaths of Crazy Eight, Tuco, Gus, Mike, his crew, Declan, Gale, etc. It's the collateral damage that Walt would be forced to face that would make things more satisfying.

And hell, Vince doesn't even need to kill the kids. Skyler dies, kids get taken away by the state, Walt is all alone in prison never to see his family again. Almost as good, and better for the namby pamby viewers who think it's too violent for FICTIONAL children to die.

I know you hate Skyler, but I don't (and more importantly, nor does Vince Gilligan). I would certainly agree, though, that she is less of an innocent bystander than the rest of the family. Gilligan has always appeared to be a very morally-driven architect when it comes to the show, and I don't see him killing off any of Skyler, Walter Jr., Holly or Marie, because they don't deserve to die. The show is dark, and will end in a dark way, but I find it kind of creepy that you'd be rooting for all of Walt's family to die.
 

Joe1987

Senior member
Jul 20, 2013
482
0
0
I keep trying to tie together the first scene in the episode 9, where it looks like everything has gone to hell and Walt retrieves the ricin.

Brotherhood or Lydia is holding Walt's family and forcing him to cook? Walt escapes long enough to get some weapons and try to free them?

Dunno how the Jessie story will resolve, he's acting like he doesn't care about the consequences, he's just bent on revenge. Saul seems much more concerned about Jessie, maybe a hit by Saul, because he's tired of waiting for Walt to deal with him?
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,996
126
I know you hate Skyler, but I don't (and more importantly, nor does Vince Gilligan). I would certainly agree, though, that she is less of an innocent bystander than the rest of the family. Gilligan has always appeared to be a very morally-driven architect when it comes to the show, and I don't see him killing off any of Skyler, Walter Jr., Holly or Marie, because they don't deserve to die. The show is dark, and will end in a dark way, but I find it kind of creepy that you'd be rooting for all of Walt's family to die.

I find it very creepy that you can't mange to completely separate the fate of FICTIONAL CHARACTERS from what someone might want to see in reality. Yes, I'm rooting for Walt's FICTIONAL family to die as a "morally-driven" statement on the perils of crime. There are most definitely innocent victims caught up in the wake of those who choose that lifestyle and it would be fitting if the FICTIONAL CHARACTER Walter White had to face that as it's the ending that would be most painful for that FICTIONAL CHARACTER.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,996
126
I keep trying to tie together the first scene in the episode 9, where it looks like everything has gone to hell and Walt retrieves the ricin.

That's VERY hard to get a grip on right now. The M-60 makes perfect sense, things are about to get violent and Walt needs firepower. The ricin doesn't make sense with the information we have so far. Ricin is a slow and stealthy weapon, it's a way to kill that hopefully won't lead back to the killer. Any sort of standoff with Lydia, the Brotherhood, the cartel etc would be be violent, not something that ricin would make a difference. I think it's pretty clear that Walt is going to be fighting the final battle on two fronts. The M-60 is for one and the ricin is the other. So to tie in the ricin, the question that needs to be answered is "Who does Walt need dead without it coming back to land on Walt"? Hank, Skyler, who else would need to be taken out that way. The only logical answer is family so that hopefully the kids don't find out he was behind it.
 

Udgnim

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2008
3,665
112
106
I wonder if Walt will confront Jesse and kill him

he will have the grounds to with Jesse spreading gas in his house, but I don't think Walt will kill Jesse in his house at least because it will bring too many eyes on him even if it looks like an easy self defense case
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
66
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I find it very creepy that you can't mange to completely separate the fate of FICTIONAL CHARACTERS from what someone might want to see in reality. Yes, I'm rooting for Walt's FICTIONAL family to die as a "morally-driven" statement on the perils of crime. There are most definitely innocent victims caught up in the wake of those who choose that lifestyle and it would be fitting if the FICTIONAL CHARACTER Walter White had to face that as it's the ending that would be most painful for that FICTIONAL CHARACTER.

Obviously I know these are fictional characters, (oh wait, I mean FICTIONAL CHARACTERS - wouldn't want to lose you) but I like them and care about them. If I didn't, I wouldn't have been watching the show for all these years. I even like and care about Walter, but Walter has, through his actions, come to deserve an ignoble fate. None of the rest of his family does, and it would make me sad to see your preference (the death of Walt's entire family) occur. I also think it would reflect a meaningful drop in the quality of the show's writing, as it would be a glib and nihilistic end to what has always been such a thoughtfully crafted show.
 
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Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
That's VERY hard to get a grip on right now. The M-60 makes perfect sense, things are about to get violent and Walt needs firepower. The ricin doesn't make sense with the information we have so far. Ricin is a slow and stealthy weapon, it's a way to kill that hopefully won't lead back to the killer. Any sort of standoff with Lydia, the Brotherhood, the cartel etc would be be violent, not something that ricin would make a difference. I think it's pretty clear that Walt is going to be fighting the final battle on two fronts. The M-60 is for one and the ricin is the other. So to tie in the ricin, the question that needs to be answered is "Who does Walt need dead without it coming back to land on Walt"? Hank, Skyler, who else would need to be taken out that way. The only logical answer is family so that hopefully the kids don't find out he was behind it.

Or maybe he wants ricin-coated M60 bullets. :sneaky:
 
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