Breaking- Church shooting in TX

[UNCjigga]

So now it's reported he bought the gun through legal channels. Dishonourably discharged for assaulting his wife and daughter. He should not have been able to acquire a weapon through legal channels. Yet somehow he managed.

There needs to be changes to the system.

http://www.businessinsider.com/texa...trick-gun-law-felon-domestic-violence-2017-11

If only something had been done after Sandy Hook, like I dunno passing that bill that enforced the existing gun laws already on the books, perhaps this crime might have been committed with an illegally acquired weapon. At least then, anyone saying "gun laws wouldn't have prevented this" would be indisputably accurate.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I found this which explains it quite well.
https://legaldictionary.net/dishonorable-discharge/

No he's right. Thy now say it was a bad conduct discharge. So even though he was court marriages and spent a year in the brig for domestic violence it didn't immediately disqualify him.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I will stand corrected. I see now it was a bad conduct discharge which isn't an immediate disqualifier. Last night most were saying dishonourable. He was denied a carry permit. Apparently ownership wasn't prohibited.

A misdemeanour with violence would disqualify him in civilian life. Apparently doong it in the military doesn't have that disqualifier.

Yep bad conduct and dishonorable are two different discharge types. CNN lists him as violating ucmj article 128 x 2 receiving a bcd rather than a dd which doesn't deprive him of anything other than access to VA benefits.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/us/devin-kelly-texas-church-shooting-suspect/index.html

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

No he's right. Thy now say it was a bad conduct discharge. So even though he was court marriages and spent a year in the brig for domestic violence it didn't immediately disqualify him.

The only thing the gun-seller would care about is if he stated he had a felony, they'd have to stop the sale at that point. The call-in to the FBI line may also disqualify him, though in 2 years of selling guns at Walmart I only had that happen one time (person didn't disqualify themselves, FBI line did). I had two or three people check 'yes' for felony, at which point I had to halt the sale, and they were understanding.

As for OT: Horrible incident, the sickness continues. I look forward to a whole lot of nothing happening to improve this situation the US (and the rest of the world) finds itself in.

 

[FIVR]

It doesn't matter. He could have 10 felonies and just escaped from prison and it wouldn't matter. There are laws made to protect gun sellers from the consequences of their gun sales and they would protect the seller of this gun from any consequences.


Remember that from 2006-2010 there was a huge cartel war in mexico and these gun sellers were happy to sell guns to smugglers who then sold the guns in mexico. Those same guns came back over the border and were used in murders in texas, arizona, and new mexico. There was a scandal but nobody went to prison because there were laws against charging gun sellers.

 

[KMFJD]

There is something we can do as a country. Find a way for these leftist insane pieces of shit from getting their hands on weapons.

Finally! A conservative in favour of gun control!

 

[Paratus]

Anyone got Bingo yet?

I’m also enjoying boomerangs posts demanding accurate factual reporting. With negative innuendo from questionable sources against Obama, Hillary, et al he laps it up faster than a dog on cat barf. But with guns he becomes Edward R Murrow.

 

[Puffnstuff]

USA Today has a brief interview with the guy in the pursuing pickup truck that led police to the shooters final resting place.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...iled-american-hero-chasing-suspect/835018001/

 

[bshole]

Anyone got I’m also enjoying boomerangs posts demanding accurate factual reporting. With negative innuendo from questionable sources against Obama, Hillary, et al he laps it up faster than a dog on cat barf. But with guns he becomes Edward R Murrow.

Oh the right wing is all blown up about this. They are completely convinced this is a left wing nutter. There is no doubt that he was a nutter, a wife beater and a child beater but there is no evidence yet as to motive. Scoring political points over tragedies is the American way, this is a whole new level though. Assuming facts not in evidence in order to score political points over tragedies is the new American way.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

The latest collection is in

 

[senseamp]

Interesting character.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Oh the right wing is all blown up about this. They are completely convinced this is a left wing nutter. There is no doubt that he was a nutter, a wife beater and a child beater but there is no evidence yet as to motive. Scoring political points over tragedies is the American way, this is a whole new level though. Assuming facts not in evidence in order to score political points over tragedies is the new American way.

http://www.newsweek.com/sutherland-...-kelley-was-antifa-according-far-right-702338

Newsweek covered it all nicely.

 

[bshole]

The latest collection is in

Best post in this thread......

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I'm curious if the bad conduct discharge denied him VA benefits for mental health.

 

[Sunburn74]

I am 38. When I was 35 years old and in a suburb most people would consider "safe" and a nut job followed me to a dark secluded place & threatened to kill me. He wasnt kidding. He already did time for manslaughter.
I pulled my gun on him and shot once. He left me alone, because he was a coward and looking for an easy target, which he assumed I was because I'm short and not at all dangerous-looking. He didnt know that a lot of males over 21 in Northern Virginia are licensed to carry a concealed weapon.

See? Anecdotal evidence is not a great argument is it? You need to look at the whole situation.

If you're curious, his name is Christopher Keith Dunham and his convictions were mostly from Georgia. Go look him up. White guy with shaved head and neck tattoo. Manslaughter, assault, resisting arrest, striking a police officer, various child abuse charges. He's not made up. The guy is real. He threatened my life. He could have killed me. I was alone. I am grateful I had the right to defend myself.

That's fine. Glad it worked out for you.

Two points: for every story of self defense there are countless more of murder, suicide and unintentional manslaughter. As a society overall from a utilitarian point of view, we are not winning based on this sort of trade. Furthermore no one is saying don't carry a pistol. We are saying let's at least look as to whether people should be allowed to carry assault rifles and semiautomatics built for battlefields.

And there are mechanisms to get the guns back. People respond to incentives even if at baseline there is some irrationality to their actions.

Honestly the most defensible position in the gun control debate is that whilst it's a noisy and charged issue, as a cause of death its just not that big a deal compared to say everything else (similarly to say how terrorism is such a noisy issue but really is not a threat on your life percentage wise).

 

[boomerang]

Civilians don't need guns.

So, you're comfortable with only the government having guns with Trump in the White House. Have I got it right?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

So, you're comfortable with only the government owning guns with Trump in the White House. Have I got it right?

lol... you think your collection of guns and ammo is more potent than the military or fbi or state troopers or even local pd. That's cute.

 

[HomerJS]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-calls-church-shooting-act-evil-023653577--politics.html

Trump: Texas mass shooting is about mental health, not guns



While I don't disagree that the shooter must have had some kind of mental illness to do such a thing...didn't Trump just issue an executive order overturning O'Bummer's EO that prohibited the mentally ill from possessing firearms?

Would such a law have prevented this horrific tragedy? Maybe...maybe not. It would have (at least in part) depended on whether someone who knew him felt that he was mentally ill...mentally ill enough to justify calling the cops...and on the cops believing he was mentally ill enough to get him to court for his illness, on the courts to find him mentally ill enough to take away his right to bear arms...and on the cops to enforce it if they did. (remember, this is Tex-Ass...not exactly a bastion of gun control laws)

Why is it when people start spouting off "its mental health" I never hear ideas about separating mentally unstable people from guns. States want to go the opposite way including giving guns to 5 year old kids and blind people.

 

[senseamp]

Maybe the Muslim guy in NYC had mental health issues too? How come Trump didn't bring that possibility up?

 

[pauldun170]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-calls-church-shooting-act-evil-023653577--politics.html

Trump: Texas mass shooting is about mental health, not guns



While I don't disagree that the shooter must have had some kind of mental illness to do such a thing...didn't Trump just issue an executive order overturning O'Bummer's EO that prohibited the mentally ill from possessing firearms?

Would such a law have prevented this horrific tragedy? Maybe...maybe not. It would have (at least in part) depended on whether someone who knew him felt that he was mentally ill...mentally ill enough to justify calling the cops...and on the cops believing he was mentally ill enough to get him to court for his illness, on the courts to find him mentally ill enough to take away his right to bear arms...and on the cops to enforce it if they did. (remember, this is Tex-Ass...not exactly a bastion of gun control laws)

Interesting.
If you say God is great prior to killing people, you are sane and the problem is the producers of the liveleak content you spend all day watching.
If you don't say say anything about about god and kill people, then it is a mental health problem.

 

[HomerJS]

Maybe the Muslim guy in NYC had mental health issues too? How come Trump didn't bring that possibility up?

Because he is brown in Trump's mind that makes him an animal. That's how racists think.

Innocent 5 black teens accused of rape in NYC - animals
Muslim in NYC kills 8 with truck - animal
White guy kills 60 in Las Vegas - tragic circumstance
White kills 25 in Texas - oh he just has mental problems

White guy commits terrorism - too soon to talk about it
Brown person - immediately talk about deportation and Muslim bans

 

[bshole]

Sounds like he was going after his in-laws....

http://www.wisn.com/article/sheriff...attended-church-where-26-were-killed/13350176

 

[Genx87]

So this guy passed a federal background check when he purchased the weapon even though he had a dishonorable discharge from the military. Somebody has some splaining to do.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Why is it when people start spouting off "its mental health" I never hear ideas about separating mentally unstable people from guns. States want to go the opposite way including giving guns to 5 year old kids and blind people.

stripping someone of their rights requires a good reason, and where you set the bar for "(insert issue) is bad enough to warrant removing a right"?

i'm not saying it can't be done, only that if you put it in the same context of "mentally unstable people aren't allowed to vote" (because voting is also a right), how you define "mentally unstable" becomes a very challenging thing to without excluding a huge amount of the population (about 16% take some sort of medication for mental-health-related issues).

other factors are the poor state of mental healthcare in america, as well as our cultural attitude towards it.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

So this guy passed a federal background check when he purchased the weapon even though he had a dishonorable discharge from the military. Somebody has some splaining to do.

Been covered. Was a bad conduct discharge. Doesn't carry immediate weapons ban. And even though he was court martialed for domestic violence which would bar ownership if a civilian charge and served a year, apparently it doesn't translate out of the military with the discharge to an ownership ban.