Breaking: Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood

[fritzfield]

WTF was this traitor doing as a Major in our military?

Unfortunately, after 6 years of ACTIVE DUTY, ALL Medical Corps, Dental Corps, and Veterinary Corps officers get an AUTOMATIC promotion from entry level Captain (O-3) to Major (O-4). This guy owed the Army MUCHO TIME based on the fact that he went in on an ROTC Scholarship and another FULL BOAT SCHOLARSHIP to USHUHS at Bethesda for his MD degree, probably more than 10 years' commitment. It was a problem that was BOUND to happen eventually, because they would NOT separate him due to the fact that he had a contractural agreement to pay them back with his TIME. Yes, TIME is all WE really ever have to offer in return for STUFF - like money or education or yada yada.

BTW, The U.S. Army NEVER admits to a mistake in judgement. When will we let this PC horseshit go?

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Actually, if you're going to tell me what I believe, perhaps I shouldn't say anything and just let you continue?

No. I firmly believe that our problem is not the terrorists. Our problem is their enablers. Those among us to defend them such as yourself. If you were not standing in our way then perhaps Major Hassan would never have been in a position to harm us. Hell, he most certainly would NOT have been a Major in our military where he had to choose between killing his Islamic brothers or us. Maybe then he wouldn't have snapped at that thought as the dilemma wouldn't have been forced on him.

So really, it is you who needs to wear a "Red Crescent" so we know who the sympathizers to our killers are.

No, you are the chickenshit here, you are afraid of muslim extremists lurking behind every tree. I don't worry about the .00000001% chance of a terrorist attack. I worry about the way greater chance of getting cancer, getting killed by a drunk driver, having a stroke,etc.

People like you disgust me. You are not worthy to live in the US, where many good people, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, and atheist, have fought and died to protect our freedoms. They gave their lives to keep this country free, but one little thing happens, and you want to ignore our laws and freedoms just so you can sleep at night. That to me is truly disgusting and unworthy of being an American.

You sound like a poster child for McCarthyism, where everyone was a "Red" until proved innocent. Everyone here can see your paranoia and willingness to discriminate against a whole group of people because you are afraid. Well done. You do the right-wing whackjobs proud, maybe you should start another brown-shirt extremist group, I'm sure you can find a lot of other whackjobs to believe you.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

It gets worse.

Officials: U.S. Aware of Hasan Efforts to Contact al Qaeda

Yet the Islamic sympathizers among the Democrats have continued to attack everyone who says Islam was the motivation. They'll continue to defend our killer by distorting his motives so that we might be blinded to the next act of violence.

When are we going to begin to defend ourselves in a manner that is effective? Perhaps we are not allowed to. Seeing as there are those among us who enable our killers. Yet that is a difference I cannot resolve. I see no common ground there and no compromise to make.

How are we to share the same Democracy? You think you can force us to stand idly by and watch our fellow countrymen get killed by a hostile foreign ideology? It is simply not unacceptable.

So what do you want to do? Kill them all? Labor camps? What is your solution, Mr internet tough guy?

 

[BMW540I6speed]

According to published reports, the Army knew six months ago, that Maj. Hasan was not a happy camper. When you join the U.S. military you become a G.I., or "government issue;" and, for the most part, you must do what your superiors order you to do, and without question. However, we are on the brink of the year 2010, not 1865, and in the midst of another unpopular military action. There are many "career soldiers" who are not happy with their duty assignments.

I think its important to realize that one does not need to serve in actual combat to develop PTSD, (Posttraumatic Stress Disorder). There are dozens of non–combat events that could cause stress or trauma to you and not to me, and vice versa. Major Hasan could have easily developed transference and PTSD or Depression, simply by listening about the traumatic and stressful experiences of his patients.

The split second that others heard Major Hasan expressing dissatisfaction with his duties, the Army should have reassigned him to different work, while, they arranged for his discharge. Problem solved. Instead, someone in the Army, who more than likely still is receiving a paycheck, either shrugged off the possibility of trouble, or made the decision not to do anything.

Is there any evidence whatsoever that Hasan was the victim of anti-Muslim discrimination within the Army?

The answer might or might not be important. There can be no imaginable "discrimination" or "harassment" that would justify the reaction of firing 100+ rounds into innocents with two pistols. Murderous rage and insanity are explanations, not justifications.

Why not cut to the chase though. Instead of beating around the bush, why not just make the case succinctly? People of faith who overdose on an extreme interpretation of their faith are dangerous be it Islam, Judism, or Christianity. The problem remains that you can't just witchhunt them out into the open regardless how hindsight makes it appear that proactive measure should work.

Like it or not, this looks like another case where the U.S. Army needs to re-evaluate their deployment policies.

 

[fskimospy]

What have we, and decent Muslims for that matter, done to alienate the crazy ones?

The argument here is that we need to do more to ensure people like Major Hasan are alienated and removed from our society. Decent Muslims doing this on our behalf would go a long way towards this end. They are failing at this task and we need to empower them to help them get the job done.

I don't know, one thing I can think of is posting things like 'we should kick all Muslims out of the military.' That sounds pretty alienating to me.

 

[fritzfield]

Genau! However, when has a Judaist ever gone on the rampage in the US? I am a RC. We all bear responsibility for the much denied holocaust. However, it is usually a Christian White supremecist or some sort of Muslim - black, Hanafi, or Whatever. Yes, it has happened in Israel. Would we not be targeted but for our MORAL and MILITARY SUPPORT for the State of Israel? We abandoned these people of GOD, and now we bear the punishment for that.

 

[jonks]

Genau! However, when has a Judaist ever gone on the rampage in the US? I am a RC. It is usually a Christian White supremecist or some sort of Muslim - black, Hanafi, or Whatever. Yes, it has happened in Israel.

well, strictly speaking, there aren't that many jews around. If 1 in 30 million people goes on a shooting rampage, that's half a jew.

 

[fritzfield]

I work with the people of THE TRULY ONLY EVERLASTING God everyday, so I have to disagree.

 

[magomago]

I don't know, one thing I can think of is posting things like 'we should kick all Muslims out of the military.' That sounds pretty alienating to me.

Lol.

If you make any group feel threatened, a group will naturally become radicalized (note: radicalized doesn't mean that they will closely follow their texts or take religion more seriously the way I am using it. It means that they will begin to adopt a "by any means necessary" approach, which may be completely condemned from a religious perspective).

Prior talk of War on Terror = War on Islam definitely threatens any Muslim that actually cares about their identity slightly (Thank god the Admin went out on the record on this one, but who knows what the military brass is still thinking).
Supporting the oppression of Arabs through relentless support of Israel, whatever the cost, will definitely affect any Arab who still has even some kind of emotional and sympathetic tie to the Middle East even if they are first and foremost an American in identity; I would think a Palestinian whose origins are indeed Jerusalem would feel it even harder.

Anyways its difficult to resolve these problems when you have people who think that I, and other Muslims, essentially need to walk around with some kind of Public "Muslim Marker", or that Arabs and Arab Culture is carefully and correctly described by the racist, bigoted, and demeaning load of crap written by Leon Uris...I can't believe Whipper Snapper takes a fictional book written by a hardcore Zionist with a political agenda as somehow being accurate of Arab Culture and peoples...this is what happens when you ask a racist their impression of a group of people that either don't talk to or interact with.

 

[Wreckem]

According to published reports, the Army knew six months ago, that Maj. Hasan was not a happy camper. When you join the U.S. military you become a G.I., or "government issue;" and, for the most part, you must do what your superiors order you to do, and without question. However, we are on the brink of the year 2010, not 1865, and in the midst of another unpopular military action. There are many "career soldiers" who are not happy with their duty assignments.

I think its important to realize that one does not need to serve in actual combat to develop PTSD, (Posttraumatic Stress Disorder). There are dozens of non–combat events that could cause stress or trauma to you and not to me, and vice versa. Major Hasan could have easily developed transference and PTSD or Depression, simply by listening about the traumatic and stressful experiences of his patients.

The split second that others heard Major Hasan expressing dissatisfaction with his duties, the Army should have reassigned him to different work, while, they arranged for his discharge. Problem solved. Instead, someone in the Army, who more than likely still is receiving a paycheck, either shrugged off the possibility of trouble, or made the decision not to do anything.

Is there any evidence whatsoever that Hasan was the victim of anti-Muslim discrimination within the Army?

The answer might or might not be important. There can be no imaginable "discrimination" or "harassment" that would justify the reaction of firing 100+ rounds into innocents with two pistols. Murderous rage and insanity are explanations, not justifications.

Why not cut to the chase though. Instead of beating around the bush, why not just make the case succinctly? People of faith who overdose on an extreme interpretation of their faith are dangerous be it Islam, Judism, or Christianity. The problem remains that you can't just witchhunt them out into the open regardless how hindsight makes it appear that proactive measure should work.

Like it or not, this looks like another case where the U.S. Army needs to re-evaluate their deployment policies.

If the US Intel Agencies had alerted the Army that Hasan was trying to contact Al Qeada as late as August, and had ties to a radical Islamic Cleric/Jihadist something might have actually been done.

 

[magomago]

well, strictly speaking, there aren't that many jews around. If 1 in 30 million people goes on a shooting rampage, that's half a jew.

Yeah but Jews have it pretty good here. Freedom of religion (not saying Muslims don't, but continue to read on) without having to be constantly bashed or tarnished in the media because they are a Jew, not focusing on bad traits and carefully linking that to being a Jew, having a well established community so success can breed upon success...Many Jews have been in very influential business and political position in this country. Jews as a group (although I don't believe its a racial group...I could become Jewish and be part of that group if I wanted) have made it pretty damned well that I can't imagine why any American Jew wants to go on a rampage here unless they are some twisted fuck, and if it happens, then the media will focus on that rather than focus on the part of his name that sounds the most Jewish

Although the stingy Jew jokes do get boring, partly because the people that crack them the most are the people that I think are the cheapest assholes I know of lol.

Note: I'm not defending this guy at all, but it brings up an idea of "when would a person with a public affiliation with any group or identity, coupled with their own personal problems, simply snap". I figure if they are part of an identity that is attacked, they may, once they are already affected by their own personal problems, begin to rationalize things based around that identity, whether or not the causes attached to that identity has merit or not (and I believe that the identity does have merit).

 

[fritzfield]

The ONLY REASON that WE (USA) are targeted as INFIDELS is that we have taken the MORAL HIGH GROUND after the Holocaust to support the UN Mandate for a State of Israel. If we ABANDONED the Jewish State, then the islamo-fascists would not even bother with us! But we continue on our righteous path to support the people of God, and for that we will always suffer! I'd LOVE to hear a different point-of-view!!! Of course if we were to deny history and to want the Jews to wander the earth as they have for over 2 millenia then people like Nidal Hasan , MD, MC, USA would NOT be SIMPLE criminals BUT instead holy martyrs!

 

[werepossum]

Lol.

If you make any group feel threatened, a group will naturally become radicalized (note: radicalized doesn't mean that they will closely follow their texts or take religion more seriously the way I am using it. It means that they will begin to adopt a "by any means necessary" approach, which may be completely condemned from a religious perspective).

Prior talk of War on Terror = War on Islam definitely threatens any Muslim that actually cares about their identity slightly (Thank god the Admin went out on the record on this one, but who knows what the military brass is still thinking).
Supporting the oppression of Arabs through relentless support of Israel, whatever the cost, will definitely affect any Arab who still has even some kind of emotional and sympathetic tie to the Middle East even if they are first and foremost an American in identity; I would think a Palestinian whose origins are indeed Jerusalem would feel it even harder.

Anyways its difficult to resolve these problems when you have people who think that I, and other Muslims, essentially need to walk around with some kind of Public "Muslim Marker", or that Arabs and Arab Culture is carefully and correctly described by the racist, bigoted, and demeaning load of crap written by Leon Uris...I can't believe Whipper Snapper takes a fictional book written by a hardcore Zionist with a political agenda as somehow being accurate of Arab Culture and peoples...this is what happens when you ask a racist their impression of a group of people that either don't talk to or interact with.

So what our responsibilities here in keeping Muslims happy? Do we have to help you kill Jews, or merely not get in your way? What's the proper response when 19 fellow religionists murder flight crew and fly airliners into civilian skyscrapers - do we send their families a nice fruit basket and notes of sympathy for their loss, or are we allowed to express the slightest possibility that perhaps this was not a nice thing to do? We know from your post that fighting terrorism "definitely threatens any Muslim that actually cares about their identity slightly", but are we allowed to duck? Can we avoid the attack, as long as no Muslims are harmed or feel threatened?

Why on Earth are Muslims entitled to Israel, home to Jews and Christians for many hundreds of years before Mohamed gave up the rag business to take up the sword? Why must the entire Middle East be declared Holy Land that only Muslims are allowed to tread, yet Muslims must also be allowed to spread out over the entire Earth escaping the hell their own religion has created, bringing with them that same religion? Why do you expect religious tolerance from us while supporting regimes that make conversion from Islam a capital offense?

For the record I do not expect nor want Muslims to wear public symbols. I would like them to understand the proper meaning of the word "race". And I would hope that someday soon Muslims will learn that if you spend half a century defending those who intentionally murder civilians in cold blood for the glory and advancement of your religion, then there's a damn good chance that books written by non-Muslims will tend to be less than sympathetic.

 

[magomago]

The ONLY REASON that WE (USA) are targeted as INFIDELS is that we have taken the MORAL HIGH GROUND after the Holocaust to support the UN Mandate for a State of Israel. If we ABANDONED the Jewish State, then the islamo-fascists would not even bother with us! But we continue on our righteous path to support the people of God, and for that we will always suffer! I'd LOVE to hear a different point-of-view!!!

That sounds like B.S. and propaganda

If we acted like a fair broker in the Mid East (and looking back at history - it seems we tried somewhat up till the late 60s/70s. I'm sure today if Israel tried to take the Suez Canal once more our political establishment would justify it on the basis of Israel's want and desires) then that would pretty much single handily resolve the problem - and being a fair broker is referring exactly to the Israeli Palestinian Conflict. It would cause a cataclysmic events and cause the ME to turn on its head.

What is 'resolve' mean? It means stand up and demand equal rights for Palestinians, without oppression, without apartheid, to realize their self determination as equal human beings in either a single united land or a Second Palestinian State on 1967 borders.

I'm not sure where you jumped to 'kill teh jew', 'abandon' Israel, and please islamofacists. Stop exaggerating so much

 

[fritzfield]

Vielen Dank, Herr Doktor Joseph Goebels, Ph.D. !

Read History!!! You could even read the HEATHEN Bible! Das Altes Testament.

Get a MAJOR Clue.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Get a MAJOR Clue.

Apres vous, mon cher Alphonse...

 

[magomago]

So what our responsibilities here in keeping Muslims happy? Do we have to help you kill Jews, or merely not get in your way? What's the proper response when 19 fellow religionists murder flight crew and fly airliners into civilian skyscrapers - do we send their families a nice fruit basket and notes of sympathy for their loss, or are we allowed to express the slightest possibility that perhaps this was not a nice thing to do? We know from your post that fighting terrorism "definitely threatens any Muslim that actually cares about their identity slightly", but are we allowed to duck? Can we avoid the attack, as long as no Muslims are harmed or feel threatened?

Why on Earth are Muslims entitled to Israel, home to Jews and Christians for many hundreds of years before Mohamed gave up the rag business to take up the sword? Why must the entire Middle East be declared Holy Land that only Muslims are allowed to tread, yet Muslims must also be allowed to spread out over the entire Earth escaping the hell their own religion has created, bringing with them that same religion? Why do you expect religious tolerance from us while supporting regimes that make conversion from Islam a capital offense?

For the record I do not expect nor want Muslims to wear public symbols. I would like them to understand the proper meaning of the word "race". And I would hope that someday soon Muslims will learn that if you spend half a century defending those who intentionally murder civilians in cold blood for the glory and advancement of your religion, then there's a damn good chance that books written by non-Muslims will tend to be less than sympathetic.

Where are you getting such exterme ideas? Where did I suggest I need help killing Jews? Where did I suggest that I want to kill Jews? When did I suggest we need to apologize to the 9/11 high jackers? When did I even state that their actions are justified? When did I say fighting terrorism is equal to making Muslims feels scared? When did I say I support 'Islamic' (I use that term lightly) regimes in the Middle East that engage in the very liberal use of capital punishment and function like dictators?

I'd honestly suggest that you think about why you immediately jumped to such a ridiculous conclusions. Not to sound like Moonbeam on purpose, you are clearly coming to your own conclusions and making up facts when I said none of the sort, and when I didn't imply it.

I don't think the US owes anything special to Muslims. If we owe anything, we owe to try to treat and respect all peoples and act as a fair judge given our greater (although now slightly weaker, especially when we consider the past 10 years) incredible power in this world. The Middle East is clearly one area in the world where we seem to miss this. It isn't about Arabs or Muslims. You have people who live in an area of the world that was dispossessed of the land, and rather than try to to force both sides to reach a fair and equitable peace, we provide lip service to one side while allowing the other to operate with carte blanche. I would love to make this an entirely secular argument and focus exclusively on human rights, because at its core that is what the issue is about.

This isn't to say that there are many problems on the Arab Side - trust me, if Arabs as a political organization weren't so god damned fractured, incohesive, and argumentative (think of the Dem Party but even worse) Israeli Governments wouldn't have had things so easy and might have been forced to actually come to peace.


Can you also stop saying "us" and "you"...cause I'm an American as well. I'm a proud Arab, I'm a proud Muslim, and cap it all off, I'm a proud American.

 

[magomago]

Vielen Dank, Herr Doktor Joseph Goebels, Ph.D. !

Read History!!! You could even read the HEATHEN Bible! Das Altes Testament.

Get a MAJOR Clue.

I have no idea WTF you are talking about, but I'm pretty sure I've read much more of the Bible than you have of the Quran; and I picked up a real Bible and opened it. I don't rely on the equivalents of JihadWatch and email chains to explain things to me.

 

[fritzfield]

Apres vous, mon cher Alphonse...

J'en ai lis, beaucoup de fois.

It may be mythology to some, but it is historically correct as far as the wandering Jew is concerned. Jerusalem to Babylon back to Jerusalem to North Africa to Spain to Poland to Russia to DEATH in the holocaust! Have not the people of Jesus suffered enough? Why must America suffer for having taken the high-moral ground to support them?

 

[magomago]

J'en ai lis, beaucoup de fois.

It may be mythology to some, but it is historically correct as far as the wandering Jew is concerned. Jerusalem to Babylon back to Jerusalem to North Africa to Spain to Poland to Russia to DEATH in the holocaust! Have not the people of Jesus suffered enough? Why must America suffer for having taken the high-moral ground to support them?

Oh vey...i'm out of this thread. Someone is a little bit off their rocker.

FYI: Don't hide the suffering and persecution of others (Palestinians) under the guise of Jewish suffering. Just because a religious group suffered as a people does not justify the oppression of an ethnic group of people (Palestinians). T
The character of Jesus in the Bible would seem inconsistent with attacking people, stealing their land, cutting down their olive trees, forcing them into bantustans, herding them at checkpoints, firing at fisherman, denying them water, etc. etc.
And the character of Jesus was surely not have look up on the actions of (soon to be formerly) Major Nidal.

 

[fritzfield]

Oh vey...

AFAIK, the correct ETHNIC SLUR should be 'Oi vey'! You really should get it correctly. And the Nazis wanted them to be sent to Madagascar, not Palestine. Maybe the world might have been different. But the war changed everything. The victors of WWII determined the status quo and territorial claims, and subsequently the UN imposed a victor's peace. However, it is hard to change the moral high ground, n'est-ce pas? Millions of Germans were forcibly moved west as were millions of Poles, to settle age old territorial claims. Why not a place for the Jews? That's the crux of the problem, isn't it? It is black and white, if there were no "State of Israel" there would be no JIHAD on the USA.

 

[werepossum]

Where are you getting such exterme ideas? Where did I suggest I need help killing Jews? Where did I suggest that I want to kill Jews? When did I suggest we need to apologize to the 9/11 high jackers? When did I even state that their actions are justified? When did I say fighting terrorism is equal to making Muslims feels scared? When did I say I support 'Islamic' (I use that term lightly) regimes in the Middle East that engage in the very liberal use of capital punishment and function like dictators?

I'd honestly suggest that you think about why you immediately jumped to such a ridiculous conclusions. Not to sound like Moonbeam on purpose, you are clearly coming to your own conclusions and making up facts when I said none of the sort, and when I didn't imply it.

I don't think the US owes anything special to Muslims. If we owe anything, we owe to try to treat and respect all peoples and act as a fair judge given our greater (although now slightly weaker, especially when we consider the past 10 years) incredible power in this world. The Middle East is clearly one area in the world where we seem to miss this. It isn't about Arabs or Muslims. You have people who live in an area of the world that was dispossessed of the land, and rather than try to to force both sides to reach a fair and equitable peace, we provide lip service to one side while allowing the other to operate with carte blanche. I would love to make this an entirely secular argument and focus exclusively on human rights, because at its core that is what the issue is about.

This isn't to say that there are many problems on the Arab Side - trust me, if Arabs as a political organization weren't so god damned fractured, incohesive, and argumentative (think of the Dem Party but even worse) Israeli Governments wouldn't have had things so easy and might have been forced to actually come to peace.


Can you also stop saying "us" and "you"...cause I'm an American as well. I'm a proud Arab, I'm a proud Muslim, and cap it all off, I'm a proud American.

You specifically said "Prior talk of War on Terror = War on Islam definitely threatens any Muslim that actually cares about their identity slightly". I'm just trying to define your limits of what we can do without threatening any Muslims. Personally I think it speaks volumes that your one listed fault with the Arabs in this conflict is that they aren't stronger. But maybe that's just me.

 

[grebe925]

..... It is black and white, if there were no "State of Israel" there would be no JIHAD on the USA.

Given that the Danes, Swedish, British, Spaniards, French, Indians, Filipinos, Christian Sudanis, Kenyans, Australians, Balinese and many other countries (most of them unconnected with Israel) have also been victims of jihadi terror , it seems to me that jihadis need an excuse, not a reason for their malevolent ways. The jihadis are the soul-brothers of the Nazis, who conjured up all kinds of injustices to set them on their megalomaniac path.

 

[kylebisme]

Genau! However, when has a Judaist ever gone on the rampage in the US?

The murderously insane fraction of Jewish Americans generally move to Israel where they can enlist in the military to kill Palestinians without consequence, or even do it outside the military and not get caught until they kill Jews, like this madman.

We abandoned these people of GOD, and now we bear the punishment for that.

We are all God's people, and Palestinians are bearing the brunt of the punishment for the insane Judophilism of people like yourself, many Palestinians of Jewish ancestry included.

 

[JEDIYoda]

The murderously insane fraction of Jewish Americans generally move to Israel where they can enlist in the military to kill Palestinians without consequence, or even do it outside the military and not get caught until they kill Jews, like this madman. --- Kyle your a nutcase through and through!! That is the most idotic thing you have ever said!!


We are all God's people, and Palestinians are bearing the brunt of the punishment for the insane Judophilism of people like yourself, many Palestinians of Jewish ancestry included.