BREAKING: Palestinian group says Israeli settler executed

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: palehorse74

are you afraid of the truth? the truth I refer to is the fact that most Arabs don't really give two sh*ts about the Palestinians as a people. they have used them for decades as pawns in their eternal hatred and battle with the Jews. Israel may need to end that problem once and for all, and one semi-humane way to do so would be to push ALL palestinians into neighboring Syria.

If it's so semi-humane, please tell me how 4.7 million people who have no skills besides farming and sheparding and basic human service skills will survive in the middle of the Syrian desert? Please, tell me. And tell me what will happen to their children, and their children's children?

Future Shock

N.B. - and when you give your predictable response "I don't care, it's not my problem, and it won't be Israel's problem anymore either", then we can sit down and calculate how many prospective terrorists you have just created...

Please tell me why these people shot themselves in the foot, choosing a terrorist as a leader in a democratic election? Oh please oh please tell me.

Than when you give your predictable response of "it doesn't matter" We can sit down and talk about how they have continued to shoot themselves in the foot. Starting on day 1 when they declined a two nation land and than decided instead to continue to attack another country in the hope of destroying it.

Eventually, the palestinians will be destroyed. One people can only handle so much.

TICK TOCK...TICK TOCK....

That is the sound of the Jews in Israel becoming outnumbered in their own homeland by Palestinians in the next 20 years...and every JEWISH politician knows it, and many have lectured about it. The Jews are already looking into the eyes of their own defeat in a democratic nation in the next few decades...and it scares them.

TICK TOCK...TICK TOCK....

And then we will see who can only handle so much.

Future Shock

NB - everyone KNOWS why they voted for Hamas - Hamas are the only Palestinians organized enough to be building schools, hospitals, and other infrastructure, with aide provided by other Muslim countries. Fatah is corrupt, the Israelis would rather bomb than build, and the UN keeps out. So Hamas is the people's choice - because they are the only ones smart enough to work at the grassroots level to help the people...

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Future Shock
NB - everyone KNOWS why they voted for Hamas - Hamas are the only Palestinians organized enough to be building schools, hospitals, and other infrastructure, with aide provided by other Muslim countries. Fatah is corrupt, the Israelis would rather bomb than build, and the UN keeps out. So Hamas is the people's choice - because they are the only ones smart enough to work at the grassroots level to help the people...

Okay, thanks for demonstrating that you have no clue what you're talking about.
Sure, they voted for Hamas so that the trash gets picked up on time, the fact that they're a goddamn murderous terrorist gang devoted to Israel's destruction did not play into it at all. It's all about the garbage piling up in the streets, not about the bodies piling up. My god, are people really this blind?

 

[Markbnj]

That is the sound of the Jews in Israel becoming outnumbered in their own homeland by Palestinians in the next 20 years...and every JEWISH politician knows it, and many have lectured about it. The Jews are already looking into the eyes of their own defeat in a democratic nation in the next few decades...and it scares them.

Gee, I don't even know what the response should be when encountering such complete idiocy.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: palehorse74

are you afraid of the truth? the truth I refer to is the fact that most Arabs don't really give two sh*ts about the Palestinians as a people. they have used them for decades as pawns in their eternal hatred and battle with the Jews. Israel may need to end that problem once and for all, and one semi-humane way to do so would be to push ALL palestinians into neighboring Syria.

If it's so semi-humane, please tell me how 4.7 million people who have no skills besides farming and sheparding and basic human service skills will survive in the middle of the Syrian desert? Please, tell me. And tell me what will happen to their children, and their children's children?

Future Shock

N.B. - and when you give your predictable response "I don't care, it's not my problem, and it won't be Israel's problem anymore either", then we can sit down and calculate how many prospective terrorists you have just created...

Please tell me why these people shot themselves in the foot, choosing a terrorist as a leader in a democratic election? Oh please oh please tell me.

Than when you give your predictable response of "it doesn't matter" We can sit down and talk about how they have continued to shoot themselves in the foot. Starting on day 1 when they declined a two nation land and than decided instead to continue to attack another country in the hope of destroying it.

Eventually, the palestinians will be destroyed. One people can only handle so much.

TICK TOCK...TICK TOCK....

That is the sound of the Jews in Israel becoming outnumbered in their own homeland by Palestinians in the next 20 years...and every JEWISH politician knows it, and many have lectured about it. The Jews are already looking into the eyes of their own defeat in a democratic nation in the next few decades...and it scares them.

TICK TOCK...TICK TOCK....

And then we will see who can only handle so much.

Future Shock

NB - everyone KNOWS why they voted for Hamas - Hamas are the only Palestinians organized enough to be building schools, hospitals, and other infrastructure, with aide provided by other Muslim countries. Fatah is corrupt, the Israelis would rather bomb than build, and the UN keeps out. So Hamas is the people's choice - because they are the only ones smart enough to work at the grassroots level to help the people...

As many have pointed out, there are many man Arab/Israelis. The problem is the palestines. What you are saying you might as well say about the US and that minorities will evenutally outnumber whites. Everyone knows it will happen, but if you say it you are racist. Hamas had the oppurtunity to form a proper government and win peace. The people knew who they were electing though, it doesn't matter what they did, the people knew there intent was to destroy Israel.

Palestine and Hamas made the bed they are about to die in. They have been given more than enough chances.

How hard is it for them to put there guns down? Hard when they are intent on destroying a nation.

 

[smack Down]

As many have pointed out, there are many man Arab/Israelis. The problem is the palestines.

No the problem is israel created a 2nd class citizens when they conqured more land. They did that because they are racist.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: smack Down

As many have pointed out, there are many man Arab/Israelis. The problem is the palestines.

No the problem is israel created a 2nd class citizens when they conqured more land. They did that because they are racist.

No, the racist ones are the ones attempting to destroy the Jewish Zionist. Israel is protecting themselves.

What would happen if Palestine laid there guns down...

peace


What would happen if Israel dissolved there military?

Israel would be destroyed.


The Palestinians created themselves as a lower race who would live in poverty forever when they refused the UN agreenment and begain a almost 40 year war campaign against Israel.

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Future Shock
NB - everyone KNOWS why they voted for Hamas - Hamas are the only Palestinians organized enough to be building schools, hospitals, and other infrastructure, with aide provided by other Muslim countries. Fatah is corrupt, the Israelis would rather bomb than build, and the UN keeps out. So Hamas is the people's choice - because they are the only ones smart enough to work at the grassroots level to help the people...

Okay, thanks for demonstrating that you have no clue what you're talking about.
Sure, they voted for Hamas so that the trash gets picked up on time, the fact that they're a goddamn murderous terrorist gang devoted to Israel's destruction did not play into it at all. It's all about the garbage piling up in the streets, not about the bodies piling up. My god, are people really this blind?

Let's see, a few articles to educate those that refuse to read current events in the paper or on TV:

1) RICE ADMITS U.S. UNDERESTIMATED HAMAS STRENGTH - NYT January 30, 2006

Many experts blame the Palestinians for most of their problems, particularly the corruption and mismanagement in Mr. Abbas's Fatah organization. Hamas, by contrast, capitalized on its image of integrity and its record of delivering services.

Mr. Abbas is widely described as bitter that he failed to strengthen his hand by getting American help in persuading Israel to curb settlement growth, release prisoners and lift the checkpoints and roadblocks choking off livelihoods in the West Bank. By all accounts, Mr. Abbas's frustration with the administration on this score was met with frustration on the American side that he was not doing enough to crack down on violence and root out corruption.

2) THE WORLD; How Hamas Rose From Wild Card to Power - John Kifner, NYT, January 29, 2006

What became clear last week, when Palestinians finally could choose between Fatah and a Hamas slate that chose to compete rather than boycott the voting, was that the vast majority of Palestinians were fed up with the corruption, cronyism and lawlessness of Mr. Arafat's heirs in Fatah and the Palestinian Authority. This frustration was directed at old guard figures like President Mahmoud Abbas, who returned with Mr. Arafat from exile in North Africa and are known as ''the Tunisians.''

The election results -- a clear majority of 76 seats in the 132-member Parliament -- surprised even Hamas leaders.

To the outside world, Hamas was known primarily for the suicide bombers of its military wing, the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades, who became active in the early 1990's. In February and March of 1996, a particularly bloody series of suicide bombings killed nearly 60 Israelis in retaliation for the assassination of their chief bomb maker, Yahya Ayyash, known as ''the Engineer.''

The bombings hardened Israeli public opinion against the Palestinians and contributed to the victory of Benjamin Netanyahu, the Likud leader who had opposed the Oslo accords but warily continued negotiations with Mr. Arafat once in office.

Palestinians often trace the appeal of Hamas to its network of social services, which largely supplanted the crumbling and feeble institutions of the Palestinian Authority. Thus a poor Palestinian family in the West Bank or Gaza might send a child to a Hamas school on a Hamas bus, use a low-cost Hamas medical clinic, play soccer at a Hamas sports club and perhaps rely on a ration of Hamas rice.

3) PALESTINIAN LANDSLIDE: THE ELECTIONS; HAMAS ROUTS RULING FACTION, CASTING PALL ON PEACE PROCESS - Steven Erlanger, NYT, January 27, 2006

But the results, seen more as a repudiation of Fatah than a declaration of war against Israel, will be a test for Hamas, which had seemed to want a more gradual entry into politics. The leader of Hamas, Mahmoud Zahar, said proudly in Gaza, ''We are going to change every aspect, as regards the economy, industry, agriculture, as regards social aid, health, administration, education.'' But it will not be an easy transformation, and it will provoke political resistance from a largely secular society.

I stand by my previous statements, and I think it IS fscking obvious that I have a clue as to what I am talking about...please let me know when you get one.

Future Shock

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Future Shock
NB - everyone KNOWS why they voted for Hamas - Hamas are the only Palestinians organized enough to be building schools, hospitals, and other infrastructure, with aide provided by other Muslim countries. Fatah is corrupt, the Israelis would rather bomb than build, and the UN keeps out. So Hamas is the people's choice - because they are the only ones smart enough to work at the grassroots level to help the people...

Okay, thanks for demonstrating that you have no clue what you're talking about.
Sure, they voted for Hamas so that the trash gets picked up on time, the fact that they're a goddamn murderous terrorist gang devoted to Israel's destruction did not play into it at all. It's all about the garbage piling up in the streets, not about the bodies piling up. My god, are people really this blind?

Let's see, a few articles to educate those that refuse to read current events in the paper or on TV:

1) RICE ADMITS U.S. UNDERESTIMATED HAMAS STRENGTH - NYT January 30, 2006

Many experts blame the Palestinians for most of their problems, particularly the corruption and mismanagement in Mr. Abbas's Fatah organization. Hamas, by contrast, capitalized on its image of integrity and its record of delivering services.

Mr. Abbas is widely described as bitter that he failed to strengthen his hand by getting American help in persuading Israel to curb settlement growth, release prisoners and lift the checkpoints and roadblocks choking off livelihoods in the West Bank. By all accounts, Mr. Abbas's frustration with the administration on this score was met with frustration on the American side that he was not doing enough to crack down on violence and root out corruption.

2) THE WORLD; How Hamas Rose From Wild Card to Power - John Kifner, NYT, January 29, 2006

What became clear last week, when Palestinians finally could choose between Fatah and a Hamas slate that chose to compete rather than boycott the voting, was that the vast majority of Palestinians were fed up with the corruption, cronyism and lawlessness of Mr. Arafat's heirs in Fatah and the Palestinian Authority. This frustration was directed at old guard figures like President Mahmoud Abbas, who returned with Mr. Arafat from exile in North Africa and are known as ''the Tunisians.''

The election results -- a clear majority of 76 seats in the 132-member Parliament -- surprised even Hamas leaders.

To the outside world, Hamas was known primarily for the suicide bombers of its military wing, the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades, who became active in the early 1990's. In February and March of 1996, a particularly bloody series of suicide bombings killed nearly 60 Israelis in retaliation for the assassination of their chief bomb maker, Yahya Ayyash, known as ''the Engineer.''

The bombings hardened Israeli public opinion against the Palestinians and contributed to the victory of Benjamin Netanyahu, the Likud leader who had opposed the Oslo accords but warily continued negotiations with Mr. Arafat once in office.

Palestinians often trace the appeal of Hamas to its network of social services, which largely supplanted the crumbling and feeble institutions of the Palestinian Authority. Thus a poor Palestinian family in the West Bank or Gaza might send a child to a Hamas school on a Hamas bus, use a low-cost Hamas medical clinic, play soccer at a Hamas sports club and perhaps rely on a ration of Hamas rice.

3) PALESTINIAN LANDSLIDE: THE ELECTIONS; HAMAS ROUTS RULING FACTION, CASTING PALL ON PEACE PROCESS - Steven Erlanger, NYT, January 27, 2006

But the results, seen more as a repudiation of Fatah than a declaration of war against Israel, will be a test for Hamas, which had seemed to want a more gradual entry into politics. The leader of Hamas, Mahmoud Zahar, said proudly in Gaza, ''We are going to change every aspect, as regards the economy, industry, agriculture, as regards social aid, health, administration, education.'' But it will not be an easy transformation, and it will provoke political resistance from a largely secular society.

I stand by my previous statements, and I think it IS fscking obvious that I have a clue as to what I am talking about...please let me know when you get one.

Future Shock

A government who wants to take care of its people does not allow its military to attack the neigbor nextdoor. What you show is how good Hamas is at propoghanda, and how gullible you are at believing it.

Now explain why they would allow and fund there military to attack Israel?

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: Markbnj

That is the sound of the Jews in Israel becoming outnumbered in their own homeland by Palestinians in the next 20 years...and every JEWISH politician knows it, and many have lectured about it. The Jews are already looking into the eyes of their own defeat in a democratic nation in the next few decades...and it scares them.

Gee, I don't even know what the response should be when encountering such complete idiocy.

Let's see what Israeli Prime Minister Olmert has to say on the subject, shall we?

Acting Israeli Leader Backs a Palestinian State and Giving Up Parts of West Bank

By GREG MYRE (NYT) 894 words
Published: January 25, 2006

JERUSALEM, Jan. 24 - In his first major policy address since becoming Israel's acting prime minister, Ehud Olmert said Tuesday that he backed the creation of a Palestinian state, and that Israel would have to relinquish parts of the West Bank to maintain its Jewish majority.

''We support the establishment of a modern, democratic Palestinian state,'' Mr. Olmert said at the annual Herzliya Conference near Tel Aviv, which has become a forum for important speeches by Israeli leaders. ''The existence of two nations, one Jewish and one Palestinian, is the full solution to the national aspirations and problems of each of the peoples.''

He said he was following the path set down by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, who suffered a severe stroke on Jan. 4 and remains in a coma.

In his remarks, Mr. Olmert said the biggest challenge facing Israel was defining the country's permanent borders in ways that assured a continued Jewish majority. While maintaining that the West Bank is part of ''our historic homeland,'' he said demographic realities required handing back parts of the territories, which Israel captured during the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.

''The choice between allowing Jews to live in all parts of the land of Israel and living in a state with a Jewish majority mandates giving up parts of the land of Israel,'' he said. ''We will not be able to continue ruling over the territories in which the majority of the Palestinian population lives.''

BTW - Sharon said the same thing repeatedly when HE was Prime Minister as well. Google is your friend...

Now, go find a mirror, and go find some idiocy...

Future Shock

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Future Shock
NB - everyone KNOWS why they voted for Hamas - Hamas are the only Palestinians organized enough to be building schools, hospitals, and other infrastructure, with aide provided by other Muslim countries. Fatah is corrupt, the Israelis would rather bomb than build, and the UN keeps out. So Hamas is the people's choice - because they are the only ones smart enough to work at the grassroots level to help the people...

Okay, thanks for demonstrating that you have no clue what you're talking about.
Sure, they voted for Hamas so that the trash gets picked up on time, the fact that they're a goddamn murderous terrorist gang devoted to Israel's destruction did not play into it at all. It's all about the garbage piling up in the streets, not about the bodies piling up. My god, are people really this blind?

Let's see, a few articles to educate those that refuse to read current events in the paper or on TV:

1) RICE ADMITS U.S. UNDERESTIMATED HAMAS STRENGTH - NYT January 30, 2006

Many experts blame the Palestinians for most of their problems, particularly the corruption and mismanagement in Mr. Abbas's Fatah organization. Hamas, by contrast, capitalized on its image of integrity and its record of delivering services.

Mr. Abbas is widely described as bitter that he failed to strengthen his hand by getting American help in persuading Israel to curb settlement growth, release prisoners and lift the checkpoints and roadblocks choking off livelihoods in the West Bank. By all accounts, Mr. Abbas's frustration with the administration on this score was met with frustration on the American side that he was not doing enough to crack down on violence and root out corruption.

2) THE WORLD; How Hamas Rose From Wild Card to Power - John Kifner, NYT, January 29, 2006

What became clear last week, when Palestinians finally could choose between Fatah and a Hamas slate that chose to compete rather than boycott the voting, was that the vast majority of Palestinians were fed up with the corruption, cronyism and lawlessness of Mr. Arafat's heirs in Fatah and the Palestinian Authority. This frustration was directed at old guard figures like President Mahmoud Abbas, who returned with Mr. Arafat from exile in North Africa and are known as ''the Tunisians.''

The election results -- a clear majority of 76 seats in the 132-member Parliament -- surprised even Hamas leaders.

To the outside world, Hamas was known primarily for the suicide bombers of its military wing, the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades, who became active in the early 1990's. In February and March of 1996, a particularly bloody series of suicide bombings killed nearly 60 Israelis in retaliation for the assassination of their chief bomb maker, Yahya Ayyash, known as ''the Engineer.''

The bombings hardened Israeli public opinion against the Palestinians and contributed to the victory of Benjamin Netanyahu, the Likud leader who had opposed the Oslo accords but warily continued negotiations with Mr. Arafat once in office.

Palestinians often trace the appeal of Hamas to its network of social services, which largely supplanted the crumbling and feeble institutions of the Palestinian Authority. Thus a poor Palestinian family in the West Bank or Gaza might send a child to a Hamas school on a Hamas bus, use a low-cost Hamas medical clinic, play soccer at a Hamas sports club and perhaps rely on a ration of Hamas rice.

3) PALESTINIAN LANDSLIDE: THE ELECTIONS; HAMAS ROUTS RULING FACTION, CASTING PALL ON PEACE PROCESS - Steven Erlanger, NYT, January 27, 2006

But the results, seen more as a repudiation of Fatah than a declaration of war against Israel, will be a test for Hamas, which had seemed to want a more gradual entry into politics. The leader of Hamas, Mahmoud Zahar, said proudly in Gaza, ''We are going to change every aspect, as regards the economy, industry, agriculture, as regards social aid, health, administration, education.'' But it will not be an easy transformation, and it will provoke political resistance from a largely secular society.

I stand by my previous statements, and I think it IS fscking obvious that I have a clue as to what I am talking about...please let me know when you get one.

Future Shock

Whipptydamndoo. Post all the links you want, doesn't mean mean anything. I lived there, I served there, I know how people think there, I know what people do there. That's reality, not a gaggle of interesing statements and links you found from Google. So much for me getting a clue. I probably have more of a clue than most of the people who wrote those articles.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Future Shock
NB - everyone KNOWS why they voted for Hamas - Hamas are the only Palestinians organized enough to be building schools, hospitals, and other infrastructure, with aide provided by other Muslim countries. Fatah is corrupt, the Israelis would rather bomb than build, and the UN keeps out. So Hamas is the people's choice - because they are the only ones smart enough to work at the grassroots level to help the people...

Okay, thanks for demonstrating that you have no clue what you're talking about.
Sure, they voted for Hamas so that the trash gets picked up on time, the fact that they're a goddamn murderous terrorist gang devoted to Israel's destruction did not play into it at all. It's all about the garbage piling up in the streets, not about the bodies piling up. My god, are people really this blind?

Let's see, a few articles to educate those that refuse to read current events in the paper or on TV:

1) RICE ADMITS U.S. UNDERESTIMATED HAMAS STRENGTH - NYT January 30, 2006

Many experts blame the Palestinians for most of their problems, particularly the corruption and mismanagement in Mr. Abbas's Fatah organization. Hamas, by contrast, capitalized on its image of integrity and its record of delivering services.

Mr. Abbas is widely described as bitter that he failed to strengthen his hand by getting American help in persuading Israel to curb settlement growth, release prisoners and lift the checkpoints and roadblocks choking off livelihoods in the West Bank. By all accounts, Mr. Abbas's frustration with the administration on this score was met with frustration on the American side that he was not doing enough to crack down on violence and root out corruption.

2) THE WORLD; How Hamas Rose From Wild Card to Power - John Kifner, NYT, January 29, 2006

What became clear last week, when Palestinians finally could choose between Fatah and a Hamas slate that chose to compete rather than boycott the voting, was that the vast majority of Palestinians were fed up with the corruption, cronyism and lawlessness of Mr. Arafat's heirs in Fatah and the Palestinian Authority. This frustration was directed at old guard figures like President Mahmoud Abbas, who returned with Mr. Arafat from exile in North Africa and are known as ''the Tunisians.''

The election results -- a clear majority of 76 seats in the 132-member Parliament -- surprised even Hamas leaders.

To the outside world, Hamas was known primarily for the suicide bombers of its military wing, the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades, who became active in the early 1990's. In February and March of 1996, a particularly bloody series of suicide bombings killed nearly 60 Israelis in retaliation for the assassination of their chief bomb maker, Yahya Ayyash, known as ''the Engineer.''

The bombings hardened Israeli public opinion against the Palestinians and contributed to the victory of Benjamin Netanyahu, the Likud leader who had opposed the Oslo accords but warily continued negotiations with Mr. Arafat once in office.

Palestinians often trace the appeal of Hamas to its network of social services, which largely supplanted the crumbling and feeble institutions of the Palestinian Authority. Thus a poor Palestinian family in the West Bank or Gaza might send a child to a Hamas school on a Hamas bus, use a low-cost Hamas medical clinic, play soccer at a Hamas sports club and perhaps rely on a ration of Hamas rice.

3) PALESTINIAN LANDSLIDE: THE ELECTIONS; HAMAS ROUTS RULING FACTION, CASTING PALL ON PEACE PROCESS - Steven Erlanger, NYT, January 27, 2006

But the results, seen more as a repudiation of Fatah than a declaration of war against Israel, will be a test for Hamas, which had seemed to want a more gradual entry into politics. The leader of Hamas, Mahmoud Zahar, said proudly in Gaza, ''We are going to change every aspect, as regards the economy, industry, agriculture, as regards social aid, health, administration, education.'' But it will not be an easy transformation, and it will provoke political resistance from a largely secular society.

I stand by my previous statements, and I think it IS fscking obvious that I have a clue as to what I am talking about...please let me know when you get one.

Future Shock

A government who wants to take care of its people does not allow its military to attack the neigbor nextdoor. What you show is how good Hamas is at propoghanda, and how gullible you are at believing it.

Now explain why they would allow and fund there military to attack Israel?

LOL Palestinians have a military? What is it, a brigade of guys with super slingshots? Gimme a break...

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Future Shock
NB - everyone KNOWS why they voted for Hamas - Hamas are the only Palestinians organized enough to be building schools, hospitals, and other infrastructure, with aide provided by other Muslim countries. Fatah is corrupt, the Israelis would rather bomb than build, and the UN keeps out. So Hamas is the people's choice - because they are the only ones smart enough to work at the grassroots level to help the people...

Okay, thanks for demonstrating that you have no clue what you're talking about.
Sure, they voted for Hamas so that the trash gets picked up on time, the fact that they're a goddamn murderous terrorist gang devoted to Israel's destruction did not play into it at all. It's all about the garbage piling up in the streets, not about the bodies piling up. My god, are people really this blind?

Let's see, a few articles to educate those that refuse to read current events in the paper or on TV:

1) RICE ADMITS U.S. UNDERESTIMATED HAMAS STRENGTH - NYT January 30, 2006

Many experts blame the Palestinians for most of their problems, particularly the corruption and mismanagement in Mr. Abbas's Fatah organization. Hamas, by contrast, capitalized on its image of integrity and its record of delivering services.

Mr. Abbas is widely described as bitter that he failed to strengthen his hand by getting American help in persuading Israel to curb settlement growth, release prisoners and lift the checkpoints and roadblocks choking off livelihoods in the West Bank. By all accounts, Mr. Abbas's frustration with the administration on this score was met with frustration on the American side that he was not doing enough to crack down on violence and root out corruption.

2) THE WORLD; How Hamas Rose From Wild Card to Power - John Kifner, NYT, January 29, 2006

What became clear last week, when Palestinians finally could choose between Fatah and a Hamas slate that chose to compete rather than boycott the voting, was that the vast majority of Palestinians were fed up with the corruption, cronyism and lawlessness of Mr. Arafat's heirs in Fatah and the Palestinian Authority. This frustration was directed at old guard figures like President Mahmoud Abbas, who returned with Mr. Arafat from exile in North Africa and are known as ''the Tunisians.''

The election results -- a clear majority of 76 seats in the 132-member Parliament -- surprised even Hamas leaders.

To the outside world, Hamas was known primarily for the suicide bombers of its military wing, the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades, who became active in the early 1990's. In February and March of 1996, a particularly bloody series of suicide bombings killed nearly 60 Israelis in retaliation for the assassination of their chief bomb maker, Yahya Ayyash, known as ''the Engineer.''

The bombings hardened Israeli public opinion against the Palestinians and contributed to the victory of Benjamin Netanyahu, the Likud leader who had opposed the Oslo accords but warily continued negotiations with Mr. Arafat once in office.

Palestinians often trace the appeal of Hamas to its network of social services, which largely supplanted the crumbling and feeble institutions of the Palestinian Authority. Thus a poor Palestinian family in the West Bank or Gaza might send a child to a Hamas school on a Hamas bus, use a low-cost Hamas medical clinic, play soccer at a Hamas sports club and perhaps rely on a ration of Hamas rice.

3) PALESTINIAN LANDSLIDE: THE ELECTIONS; HAMAS ROUTS RULING FACTION, CASTING PALL ON PEACE PROCESS - Steven Erlanger, NYT, January 27, 2006

But the results, seen more as a repudiation of Fatah than a declaration of war against Israel, will be a test for Hamas, which had seemed to want a more gradual entry into politics. The leader of Hamas, Mahmoud Zahar, said proudly in Gaza, ''We are going to change every aspect, as regards the economy, industry, agriculture, as regards social aid, health, administration, education.'' But it will not be an easy transformation, and it will provoke political resistance from a largely secular society.

I stand by my previous statements, and I think it IS fscking obvious that I have a clue as to what I am talking about...please let me know when you get one.

Future Shock

A government who wants to take care of its people does not allow its military to attack the neigbor nextdoor. What you show is how good Hamas is at propoghanda, and how gullible you are at believing it.

Now explain why they would allow and fund there military to attack Israel?

LOL Palestinians have a military? What is it, a brigade of guys with super slingshots? Gimme a break...

Text

The insurgents are a military as well, though we like to classiffy them as terrorists. OR does a military need to have a nuke in order to be considered a military?

 

[5150Joker]

RichardE,

All that link shows is Hamas had intended to unite the factions into a single army but that hasn't happened and judging by the way things are going, it never will. So like I said, where's the Pal army/military? They don't have one. Insurgents aren't an organized military either, they are made up of a bunch of cells with their own leaders and agendas.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
RichardE,

All that link shows is Hamas had intended to unite the factions into a single army but that hasn't happened and judging by the way things are going, it never will. So like I said, where's the Pal army/military? They don't have one. Insurgents aren't an organized military either, they are made up of a bunch of cells with their own leaders and agendas.

When they are under umbrella organizations and sponsored by Governments, (Hamas and Syria) you can claim they are a military.

As we can see from the CNN link

On Monday, three Palestinian militant groups -- the military wing of Hamas, the PRC and the previously unknown Army of Islam -- claimed responsibility for Shalit's kidnapping.

The Miliarty wing of Hamas, that shows enough that Hamas has a military, be it first rate or thrid rate, who they use to attack Israel.

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: RichardE

A government who wants to take care of its people does not allow its military to attack the neigbor nextdoor. What you show is how good Hamas is at propoghanda, and how gullible you are at believing it.

Now explain why they would allow and fund there military to attack Israel?

You need to go stay safe in your little gated suburban house. You OBVIOUSLY have never lived in a second world or third world country. Governments and political institutions have far less control than they do in established countries - that is why so many of them fall to rebellions, that is why so many are rife with military squads that the government can't control if they wanted to, that is why things just generally don't work that well. That's not unique to Palestine, that not unique to South America, that's not unique even now in Russia...but it happens in all of those places and more.

To say that you expect a 6 month old government of amature politicians whom inherited a dysfunctional government - to be able to control a divided, embittered population - is pure immaturity on your part. It just isn't going to happen in 6 months...maybe in 6 years. It has probably taken 3-5 years for the IRA to reign in it's splinter groups in Ireland after it assumed political power in a joint government with it's previous foes. During that time, the "Real IRA" and other splinter groups bombed England and Northern Ireland hoping to provoke a response and derail the peace process. England waivered...but restrained themselves...and today there is a semblance of peace in Ireland, and it has the fastest growing economy in the EU. But it took men of courage and conviction to remain unshakable in the provocations of those that wished to stop progress...people that know that the eventual welfare of the people is worth ignoring the slings and arrows of those that wish to provoke a response.

If you believe that Hamas's leadership is behind this, then please, tell my WHY? What tactical or strategic advantage would they hope to gain from abducting a single soldier and provoking a response from Isreal? Do you think they think that will get their monies freed from Israel? Do you think they needed to do that to gain additional political support internally?

Please, tell me why they would do such a thing...because frankly, it's a set-up. The only people that have to gain from this are hardcore Hamas fighters that are worried that Hamas may turn to peace...and those that play into their hands, like yourself...

Future Shock

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: RichardE

A government who wants to take care of its people does not allow its military to attack the neigbor nextdoor. What you show is how good Hamas is at propoghanda, and how gullible you are at believing it.

Now explain why they would allow and fund there military to attack Israel?

You need to go stay safe in your little gated suburban house. You OBVIOUSLY have never lived in a second world or third world country. Governments and political institutions have far less control than they do in established countries - that is why so many of them fall to rebellions, that is why so many are rife with military squads that the government can't control if they wanted to, that is why things just generally don't work that well. That's not unique to Palestine, that not unique to South America, that's not unique even now in Russia...but it happens in all of those places and more.

To say that you expect a 6 month old government of amature politicians whom inherited a dysfunctional government - to be able to control a divided, embittered population - is pure immaturity on your part. It just isn't going to happen in 6 months...maybe in 6 years. It has probably taken 3-5 years for the IRA to reign in it's splinter groups in Ireland after it assumed political power in a joint government with it's previous foes. During that time, the "Real IRA" and other splinter groups bombed England and Northern Ireland hoping to provoke a response and derail the peace process. England waivered...but restrained themselves...and today there is a semblance of peace in Ireland, and it has the fastest growing economy in the EU. But it took men of courage and conviction to remain unshakable in the provocations of those that wished to stop progress...people that know that the eventual welfare of the people is worth ignoring the slings and arrows of those that wish to provoke a response.

If you believe that Hamas's leadership is behind this, then please, tell my WHY? What tactical or strategic advantage would they hope to gain from abducting a single soldier and provoking a response from Isreal? Do you think they think that will get their monies freed from Israel? Do you think they needed to do that to gain additional political support internally?

Please, tell me why they would do such a thing...because frankly, it's a set-up. The only people that have to gain from this are hardcore Hamas fighters that are worried that Hamas may turn to peace...and those that play into their hands, like yourself...

Future Shock

I am not the Hamas leaders, I do not know why. From the dialogue they have communicated with the rest of the world, the dialogue has not been one of a peacefull organization intent on building a nation alongside Israel. The do not recognize it, wish for it to be destroyed. This is not a government who wishes to build peace, this is one that took the flame from the last government and continues the bloodshed.

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Whipptydamndoo. Post all the links you want, doesn't mean mean anything. I lived there, I served there, I know how people think there, I know what people do there. That's reality, not a gaggle of interesing statements and links you found from Google. So much for me getting a clue. I probably have more of a clue than most of the people who wrote those articles.

And I dated the daughter of a CHRISTIAN Palestinian that has supported the PLO for years (didn't know that until I had been dating her for a while). For balance, I've also taken out one of Netanyahu's closest aides when I met her in NYC. And lastly, my best friend is a member of the most powerful Christian family in the Lebanese government, the Ferzleys. I do have some connection to the area, you might say.

And I say you don't know anything about what you are talking about, because you have never spent ANY time walking around through Palestinian refugee neighborhoods, talking with them about their concerns, fears, and realities. You have dealt with them, at BEST, as objects through a 10x scope, either in reality or in your mind's eye. And all you wish to do with this discussion is force that same view on the rest of us...

Future Shock

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: RichardE

A government who wants to take care of its people does not allow its military to attack the neigbor nextdoor. What you show is how good Hamas is at propoghanda, and how gullible you are at believing it.

Now explain why they would allow and fund there military to attack Israel?

You need to go stay safe in your little gated suburban house. You OBVIOUSLY have never lived in a second world or third world country. Governments and political institutions have far less control than they do in established countries - that is why so many of them fall to rebellions, that is why so many are rife with military squads that the government can't control if they wanted to, that is why things just generally don't work that well. That's not unique to Palestine, that not unique to South America, that's not unique even now in Russia...but it happens in all of those places and more.

To say that you expect a 6 month old government of amature politicians whom inherited a dysfunctional government - to be able to control a divided, embittered population - is pure immaturity on your part. It just isn't going to happen in 6 months...maybe in 6 years. It has probably taken 3-5 years for the IRA to reign in it's splinter groups in Ireland after it assumed political power in a joint government with it's previous foes. During that time, the "Real IRA" and other splinter groups bombed England and Northern Ireland hoping to provoke a response and derail the peace process. England waivered...but restrained themselves...and today there is a semblance of peace in Ireland, and it has the fastest growing economy in the EU. But it took men of courage and conviction to remain unshakable in the provocations of those that wished to stop progress...people that know that the eventual welfare of the people is worth ignoring the slings and arrows of those that wish to provoke a response.

If you believe that Hamas's leadership is behind this, then please, tell my WHY? What tactical or strategic advantage would they hope to gain from abducting a single soldier and provoking a response from Isreal? Do you think they think that will get their monies freed from Israel? Do you think they needed to do that to gain additional political support internally?

Please, tell me why they would do such a thing...because frankly, it's a set-up. The only people that have to gain from this are hardcore Hamas fighters that are worried that Hamas may turn to peace...and those that play into their hands, like yourself...

Future Shock

I am not the Hamas leaders, I do not know why. From the dialogue they have communicated with the rest of the world, the dialogue has not been one of a peacefull organization intent on building a nation alongside Israel. The do not recognize it, wish for it to be destroyed. This is not a government who wishes to build peace, this is one that took the flame from the last government and continues the bloodshed.

So what if the goverment wish to destory israel? There not going to get there way so why not just work with them to make Palestian a better nation.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: RichardE

A government who wants to take care of its people does not allow its military to attack the neigbor nextdoor. What you show is how good Hamas is at propoghanda, and how gullible you are at believing it.

Now explain why they would allow and fund there military to attack Israel?

You need to go stay safe in your little gated suburban house. You OBVIOUSLY have never lived in a second world or third world country. Governments and political institutions have far less control than they do in established countries - that is why so many of them fall to rebellions, that is why so many are rife with military squads that the government can't control if they wanted to, that is why things just generally don't work that well. That's not unique to Palestine, that not unique to South America, that's not unique even now in Russia...but it happens in all of those places and more.

To say that you expect a 6 month old government of amature politicians whom inherited a dysfunctional government - to be able to control a divided, embittered population - is pure immaturity on your part. It just isn't going to happen in 6 months...maybe in 6 years. It has probably taken 3-5 years for the IRA to reign in it's splinter groups in Ireland after it assumed political power in a joint government with it's previous foes. During that time, the "Real IRA" and other splinter groups bombed England and Northern Ireland hoping to provoke a response and derail the peace process. England waivered...but restrained themselves...and today there is a semblance of peace in Ireland, and it has the fastest growing economy in the EU. But it took men of courage and conviction to remain unshakable in the provocations of those that wished to stop progress...people that know that the eventual welfare of the people is worth ignoring the slings and arrows of those that wish to provoke a response.

If you believe that Hamas's leadership is behind this, then please, tell my WHY? What tactical or strategic advantage would they hope to gain from abducting a single soldier and provoking a response from Isreal? Do you think they think that will get their monies freed from Israel? Do you think they needed to do that to gain additional political support internally?

Please, tell me why they would do such a thing...because frankly, it's a set-up. The only people that have to gain from this are hardcore Hamas fighters that are worried that Hamas may turn to peace...and those that play into their hands, like yourself...

Future Shock

I am not the Hamas leaders, I do not know why. From the dialogue they have communicated with the rest of the world, the dialogue has not been one of a peacefull organization intent on building a nation alongside Israel. The do not recognize it, wish for it to be destroyed. This is not a government who wishes to build peace, this is one that took the flame from the last government and continues the bloodshed.

So what if the goverment wish to destory israel? There not going to get there way so why not just work with them to make Palestian a better nation.

There military is still attacking Israel. Why would they work with a nation that sends it's military to kill civilians?

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: RichardE
I am not the Hamas leaders, I do not know why. From the dialogue they have communicated with the rest of the world, the dialogue has not been one of a peacefull organization intent on building a nation alongside Israel. The do not recognize it, wish for it to be destroyed. This is not a government who wishes to build peace, this is one that took the flame from the last government and continues the bloodshed.

OK, then given what you are saying, how does the abduction of a single Israeli soldier foster that intent to destroy Israel? Do you really expect that they are trying to win by spending days tunnelling underground to have minimal military impact? Does it strengthen their hand in any possible way?

No, it does not. It does not possibly make sense for the Hamas leadership to do this...because all this can do is put them under attack before they have even solidified their own internal power against Fatah. It does not possibly alleviate their pressing financial needs, which will eventually cost them huge amounts of grassroots support when their aide to the Palestinian's is halted. It gains them nothing.

To say they did it, without being able to provide a good tactical motive, is flogging perspective.

Future Shock

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: RichardE

A government who wants to take care of its people does not allow its military to attack the neigbor nextdoor. What you show is how good Hamas is at propoghanda, and how gullible you are at believing it.

Now explain why they would allow and fund there military to attack Israel?

You need to go stay safe in your little gated suburban house. You OBVIOUSLY have never lived in a second world or third world country. Governments and political institutions have far less control than they do in established countries - that is why so many of them fall to rebellions, that is why so many are rife with military squads that the government can't control if they wanted to, that is why things just generally don't work that well. That's not unique to Palestine, that not unique to South America, that's not unique even now in Russia...but it happens in all of those places and more.

To say that you expect a 6 month old government of amature politicians whom inherited a dysfunctional government - to be able to control a divided, embittered population - is pure immaturity on your part. It just isn't going to happen in 6 months...maybe in 6 years. It has probably taken 3-5 years for the IRA to reign in it's splinter groups in Ireland after it assumed political power in a joint government with it's previous foes. During that time, the "Real IRA" and other splinter groups bombed England and Northern Ireland hoping to provoke a response and derail the peace process. England waivered...but restrained themselves...and today there is a semblance of peace in Ireland, and it has the fastest growing economy in the EU. But it took men of courage and conviction to remain unshakable in the provocations of those that wished to stop progress...people that know that the eventual welfare of the people is worth ignoring the slings and arrows of those that wish to provoke a response.

If you believe that Hamas's leadership is behind this, then please, tell my WHY? What tactical or strategic advantage would they hope to gain from abducting a single soldier and provoking a response from Isreal? Do you think they think that will get their monies freed from Israel? Do you think they needed to do that to gain additional political support internally?

Please, tell me why they would do such a thing...because frankly, it's a set-up. The only people that have to gain from this are hardcore Hamas fighters that are worried that Hamas may turn to peace...and those that play into their hands, like yourself...

Future Shock

I am not the Hamas leaders, I do not know why. From the dialogue they have communicated with the rest of the world, the dialogue has not been one of a peacefull organization intent on building a nation alongside Israel. The do not recognize it, wish for it to be destroyed. This is not a government who wishes to build peace, this is one that took the flame from the last government and continues the bloodshed.

So what if the goverment wish to destory israel? There not going to get there way so why not just work with them to make Palestian a better nation.

There military is still attacking Israel. Why would they work with a nation that sends it's military to kill civilians?

Because it is the only option that can lead to peace.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Whipptydamndoo. Post all the links you want, doesn't mean mean anything. I lived there, I served there, I know how people think there, I know what people do there. That's reality, not a gaggle of interesing statements and links you found from Google. So much for me getting a clue. I probably have more of a clue than most of the people who wrote those articles.

And I dated the daughter of a CHRISTIAN Palestinian that has supported the PLO for years (didn't know that until I had been dating her for a while). For balance, I've also taken out one of Netanyahu's closest aides when I met her in NYC. And lastly, my best friend is a member of the most powerful Christian family in the Lebanese government, the Ferzleys. I do have some connection to the area, you might say.

And I say you don't know anything about what you are talking about, because you have never spent ANY time walking around through Palestinian refugee neighborhoods, talking with them about their concerns, fears, and realities. You have dealt with them, at BEST, as objects through a 10x scope, either in reality or in your mind's eye. And all you wish to do with this discussion is force that same view on the rest of us...

Future Shock

Congrats on your family, friends and such. I'm sure they're all very nice people. I don't see how that gives you any idea of what goes on there on a daily basis, but whatever, I'm not going to argue that, it's a silly, pointless argument. But I will say this, I've spoken with hundreds of Palestinians in a normal, rational discussions. Don't make assumptions about me, that's unfair. And I don't wish to force anything on anyone, I just wish people would open their eyes a little bit and see the reality.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: RichardE
I am not the Hamas leaders, I do not know why. From the dialogue they have communicated with the rest of the world, the dialogue has not been one of a peacefull organization intent on building a nation alongside Israel. The do not recognize it, wish for it to be destroyed. This is not a government who wishes to build peace, this is one that took the flame from the last government and continues the bloodshed.

OK, then given what you are saying, how does the abduction of a single Israeli soldier foster that intent to destroy Israel? Do you really expect that they are trying to win by spending days tunnelling underground to have minimal military impact? Does it strengthen their hand in any possible way?

No, it does not. It does not possibly make sense for the Hamas leadership to do this...because all this can do is put them under attack before they have even solidified their own internal power against Fatah. It does not possibly alleviate their pressing financial needs, which will eventually cost them huge amounts of grassroots support when their aide to the Palestinian's is halted. It gains them nothing.

To say they did it, without being able to provide a good tactical motive, is flogging perspective.

Future Shock

I would put along the same lines of them firing rockets into Israel. To create fear, to bolster there support among Palestinians. They will never be able to beat Israel militarily, but they need to look like they are winning, or close to winning for the support of there people.

There infrastructure gets better, and they are doing more attacks on Israel, even an army outpost!

I don't think they meant to kidnap. Probally to kill all the ones in the outpost, and some gun-ho officer decided to take a Prisoner. That was probally a mistake.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: RichardE

A government who wants to take care of its people does not allow its military to attack the neigbor nextdoor. What you show is how good Hamas is at propoghanda, and how gullible you are at believing it.

Now explain why they would allow and fund there military to attack Israel?

You need to go stay safe in your little gated suburban house. You OBVIOUSLY have never lived in a second world or third world country. Governments and political institutions have far less control than they do in established countries - that is why so many of them fall to rebellions, that is why so many are rife with military squads that the government can't control if they wanted to, that is why things just generally don't work that well. That's not unique to Palestine, that not unique to South America, that's not unique even now in Russia...but it happens in all of those places and more.

To say that you expect a 6 month old government of amature politicians whom inherited a dysfunctional government - to be able to control a divided, embittered population - is pure immaturity on your part. It just isn't going to happen in 6 months...maybe in 6 years. It has probably taken 3-5 years for the IRA to reign in it's splinter groups in Ireland after it assumed political power in a joint government with it's previous foes. During that time, the "Real IRA" and other splinter groups bombed England and Northern Ireland hoping to provoke a response and derail the peace process. England waivered...but restrained themselves...and today there is a semblance of peace in Ireland, and it has the fastest growing economy in the EU. But it took men of courage and conviction to remain unshakable in the provocations of those that wished to stop progress...people that know that the eventual welfare of the people is worth ignoring the slings and arrows of those that wish to provoke a response.

If you believe that Hamas's leadership is behind this, then please, tell my WHY? What tactical or strategic advantage would they hope to gain from abducting a single soldier and provoking a response from Isreal? Do you think they think that will get their monies freed from Israel? Do you think they needed to do that to gain additional political support internally?

Please, tell me why they would do such a thing...because frankly, it's a set-up. The only people that have to gain from this are hardcore Hamas fighters that are worried that Hamas may turn to peace...and those that play into their hands, like yourself...

Future Shock

I am not the Hamas leaders, I do not know why. From the dialogue they have communicated with the rest of the world, the dialogue has not been one of a peacefull organization intent on building a nation alongside Israel. The do not recognize it, wish for it to be destroyed. This is not a government who wishes to build peace, this is one that took the flame from the last government and continues the bloodshed.

So what if the goverment wish to destory israel? There not going to get there way so why not just work with them to make Palestian a better nation.

There military is still attacking Israel. Why would they work with a nation that sends it's military to kill civilians?

Because it is the only option that can lead to peace.

No, Palestine laying there weapons down can lead to peace. Israel not doing anything in regards to attacks leads to nothing but more Israel deaths.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: RichardE

A government who wants to take care of its people does not allow its military to attack the neigbor nextdoor. What you show is how good Hamas is at propoghanda, and how gullible you are at believing it.

Now explain why they would allow and fund there military to attack Israel?

You need to go stay safe in your little gated suburban house. You OBVIOUSLY have never lived in a second world or third world country. Governments and political institutions have far less control than they do in established countries - that is why so many of them fall to rebellions, that is why so many are rife with military squads that the government can't control if they wanted to, that is why things just generally don't work that well. That's not unique to Palestine, that not unique to South America, that's not unique even now in Russia...but it happens in all of those places and more.

To say that you expect a 6 month old government of amature politicians whom inherited a dysfunctional government - to be able to control a divided, embittered population - is pure immaturity on your part. It just isn't going to happen in 6 months...maybe in 6 years. It has probably taken 3-5 years for the IRA to reign in it's splinter groups in Ireland after it assumed political power in a joint government with it's previous foes. During that time, the "Real IRA" and other splinter groups bombed England and Northern Ireland hoping to provoke a response and derail the peace process. England waivered...but restrained themselves...and today there is a semblance of peace in Ireland, and it has the fastest growing economy in the EU. But it took men of courage and conviction to remain unshakable in the provocations of those that wished to stop progress...people that know that the eventual welfare of the people is worth ignoring the slings and arrows of those that wish to provoke a response.

If you believe that Hamas's leadership is behind this, then please, tell my WHY? What tactical or strategic advantage would they hope to gain from abducting a single soldier and provoking a response from Isreal? Do you think they think that will get their monies freed from Israel? Do you think they needed to do that to gain additional political support internally?

Please, tell me why they would do such a thing...because frankly, it's a set-up. The only people that have to gain from this are hardcore Hamas fighters that are worried that Hamas may turn to peace...and those that play into their hands, like yourself...

Future Shock

I am not the Hamas leaders, I do not know why. From the dialogue they have communicated with the rest of the world, the dialogue has not been one of a peacefull organization intent on building a nation alongside Israel. The do not recognize it, wish for it to be destroyed. This is not a government who wishes to build peace, this is one that took the flame from the last government and continues the bloodshed.

So what if the goverment wish to destory israel? There not going to get there way so why not just work with them to make Palestian a better nation.

There military is still attacking Israel. Why would they work with a nation that sends it's military to kill civilians?

Because it is the only option that can lead to peace.

No, Palestine laying there weapons down can lead to peace. Israel not doing anything in regards to attacks leads to nothing but more Israel deaths.

Qhat makes you think israels attacks will work this time when they have failed for the last 40 years. Do you think destorying shackes while nring peace?