Breaking: Shooting at CT elementary school

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ZOOYUKA

Platinum Member
Jan 24, 2005
2,475
0
0
And the media named the wrong brother as the shooter...Lovely.

This is really bizarre. Why would the brother be posting on facebook that it wasn't him when his entire family was just killed? Surely he would've been able to put the pieces together since it happened at the school his mother taught at.
 
Feb 19, 2001
20,158
20
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I can expect to give the teacher the ability to defend themselves if they so choose to. After 9/11, there was the ability for pilots to defend themselves.

Perhaps but how well are these individuals trained? You put a gun in the cockpit and then what? It's not the same as defending your house or out in a shooting range. You're dealing with close quarters, narrow aisles, and the fact that one misaimed shot will cause rapid decompression and airframe damage that could kill everyone.

The same with a teacher with a gun. How do you ensure that gun doesn't fall into the possession of a student? How do you ensure that the teacher can diffuse a situation properly? What happens in a hostage situation? What about crossfire? I realize there are concerns, which is why if you want to give teachers the option to be armed, it's not the same as any ordinary citizen with a CCW. I'd think they need to get some special training, with very tight regulations.
 

Farmer

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2003
3,345
2
81
Dozens aren't required. Only one, in the hands of someone with training.

This is why no one ever goes into police stations and starts shooting. Instead, they pick places where guns are illegal and/or discouraged.

One could argue, if your intent was to shoot everyone in a building, would you be more inclined to do so if you knew everyone in the building had a gun, or if you knew no in else in the building has a gun?

As a person is attempting to kill me, is it reasonable to expect for me to call the police and wait for them, or to take actions on my own to possibly save my life?

The underlying theme is this: firearms, which were invented for their simplicity and ease of use when compared to other weapons, are too difficult for the average person to use effectively. The average person cannot be trusted with defending himself/herself, and that should be a matter left to the state.
 
Last edited:
May 13, 2009
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I can expect to give the teacher the ability to defend themselves if they so choose to. After 9/11, there was the ability for pilots to defend themselves.

So an arms race now? What's next rocket launchers? Are we fucking Somalia now..
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,301
0
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I'll repeat it again.

What is the purpose of semi-auto weapons? Home defence? No, they're a very poor choice for that. You'll probably just kill your own kids or the neighbors. Hunting? Haha.

The sole purpose of these weapons is killing people.

Cars are designed to get people from point A to B. They are a critical part of the global economy.

To compare the two is farcical.

But your logic we should allow citizens to purchase anything they want. Car full of C4 explosives? Hey, go for it. $400 from walmart.

actually you can buy Dynamite for mining purposes with a proper permit..
so yes if they have the license to acquire it by all means.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
I can expect to give the teacher the ability to defend themselves if they so choose to. After 9/11, there was the ability for pilots to defend themselves.

1) Yes, people have a right to defend themselves.
2) Untrained people using weapons in crowded, chaotic, highly stressful situations have a very real and well-proven tendency to do a LOT of damage to innocent bystanders. The very first time some psycho opened fire in an armed school environment a dozen teachers would return fire and might kill 50 kids.

I'm not an anti-gun nut, but I am realistic enough to understand that simply arming teachers and hoping they can take out a gunman without inflicting a lot of friendly-fire casualties is pie-in-the-sky delusion.
 
Feb 19, 2001
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For god's sake, stop the car debate already. I've refuted comparisons with cars a billion times.

- Cars and guns are built for different purposes.
- Car deaths and gun deaths are for different reasons. How many people are murdered with guns? How many people are murdered with cars?
- There are tons of laws, safety devices, and continuous improvements being made to cars so they're safer, and drivers are less likely to kill others accidentally. Yet any change with guns is viewed as anti-gun.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
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I don't think you understood the scenario I assumed was being proposed. It was not a well-trained single teacher being allowed in their one instance to carry firearms. In any case how is what you wrote any more reasonable than having on-site police officers (which would also be completely ineffective but certainly less ridiculous)?
Any teacher with a concealed carry permit should be allowed to carry at school
WTF are you talking about? There were quite a few before that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Miller

Again, you are a fucking idiot.
Seems you would be the fucking idiot...that was about the NFA in relation to the 2nd, not what the implicit meaning of the 2nd was...get a clue before you go spouting off about shit you know little about, get your head out of Sarah Brady's ass and learn something for once
 

Farmer

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2003
3,345
2
81
For god's sake, stop the car debate already. I've refuted comparisons with cars a billion times.

- Cars and guns are built for different purposes.
- Car deaths and gun deaths are for different reasons. How many people are murdered with guns? How many people are murdered with cars?
- There are tons of laws, safety devices, and continuous improvements being made to cars so they're safer, and drivers are less likely to kill others accidentally. Yet any change with guns is viewed as anti-gun.

Well you're going to hate me:

100,000,000 people use their cars for a year. In doing so, they better their lives and harm no one intentionally. In that year, 12 of these people decide to use his/her car to run over 20 other people each, resulting in 240 deaths, or 0.00024% of the population, and directly affecting the lives of 2400 people related to the dead, or 0.0024% of the population.

Is the correct legislative response to severely restrict car ownership, adversely affecting 100% of the population?

Now replace "cars" with "guns," or any other noun for that matter.

Statistically speaking, in America, what historical examples are there for the reduction of gun violence due to gun ownership legislation? In all I've read, the two are uncorrelated.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
Untrained people using weapons in crowded, chaotic, highly stressful situations have a very real and well-proven tendency to do a LOT of damage to innocent bystanders.
Where/when did this happen? I'm genuinely curious since I've never heard of such a situation before...I know some idiot cops shot like 9 bystanders in New York a couple weeks back
 

darkxshade

Lifer
Mar 31, 2001
13,749
6
81
For god's sake, stop the car debate already. I've refuted comparisons with cars a billion times.

- Cars and guns are built for different purposes.
- Car deaths and gun deaths are for different reasons. How many people are murdered with guns? How many people are murdered with cars?
- There are tons of laws, safety devices, and continuous improvements being made to cars so they're safer, and drivers are less likely to kill others accidentally. Yet any change with guns is viewed as anti-gun.


Andd for god's sake, stop the gun debate already. No one is going to convince the opposite side of anything.
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,832
881
126
Give teachers guns. Great idea!!

And when that fails (and it will), what next? Arm one student per class? Mount a machine gun in every hallway? Have armed snipers on the roof?
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,301
0
0
So an arms race now? What's next rocket launchers? Are we fucking Somalia now..

With the way things are going in this country, it literally could happen.

All it takes is for the economy to finally flat crash or Obummer to piss off the wrong people. approximately 49.9 percent are not happy with the country as a whole right now.
And things are not getting better they are getting worse.

I know quite a few Texans down here buying guns and ammo now after the election as either way bad change is coming for freedoms.
Gun Shows are packed every single weekend when they come through.
and I sure would love to see the statistics since the election for purchases and ammo purchases. I'm betting in states like Texas they are at an all time high.
 

Farmer

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2003
3,345
2
81
CVSiN:

You are really not doing the pro-gun crowd any favors with your arguments.
 

cronos

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
9,380
26
101
This is really bizarre. Why would the brother be posting on facebook that it wasn't him when his entire family was just killed? Surely he would've been able to put the pieces together since it happened at the school his mother taught at.

Not sure if serious...

The facebook guy was someone else entirely who happens to have the same name as one of the brothers.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,044
62
91
1) Yes, people have a right to defend themselves.
2) Untrained people using weapons in crowded, chaotic, highly stressful situations have a very real and well-proven tendency to do a LOT of damage to innocent bystanders. The very first time some psycho opened fire in an armed school environment a dozen teachers would return fire and might kill 50 kids.

I'm not an anti-gun nut, but I am realistic enough to understand that simply arming teachers and hoping they can take out a gunman without inflicting a lot of friendly-fire casualties is pie-in-the-sky delusion.

Who said anything about untrained? Only about 10% of pilots were licensed to carry and probably less than half of those licensed actually carried. The point is, they should have the option to defend themselves.


Article about the CO shooting.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/09/10/did-colorado-shooter-single-out-cinemark-theater/
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,832
881
126
With the way things are going in this country, it literally could happen.

All it takes is for the economy to finally flat crash or Obummer to piss off the wrong people. approximately 49.9 percent are not happy with the country as a whole right now.
And things are not getting better they are getting worse.

I know quite a few Texans down here buying guns and ammo now after the election as either way bad change is coming for freedoms.
Gun Shows are packed every single weekend when they come through.
and I sure would love to see the statistics since the election for purchases and ammo purchases. I'm betting in states like Texas they are at an all time high.

Translation: I'm not happy with the democratic process in this country because I don't always get what I want, so we need an armed revolution that kills people.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,301
0
0
CVSiN:

You are really not doing the pro-gun crowd any favors with your arguments.

Please. give it a rest.
most of my arguments are right out of NRA pages.
and yes I am a member and I do have what would be considered Assault Weapons.
and I sure as hell wont be giving them up voluntarily.
As well as my CC permit.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,602
29,319
136
Not sure if serious...

The facebook guy was someone else entirely who happens to have the same name as one of the brothers.
there is no fucking way there is another Ryan Lanza from Hoboken originally from Newtown Ct. That FB shit has to be shooped.
 

sixone

Lifer
May 3, 2004
25,162
4
61
Translation: I'm not happy that the democratic process in this country because I don't always get what I want, so we need an armed revolution that kills people.

BS translation. Stocking up is not the same thing as advocating revolution.

When you have to make shit up, it's time to stop posting.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,301
0
0
Translation: I'm not happy that the democratic process in this country because I don't always get what I want, so we need an armed revolution that kills people.

actually nope.. I don't care for Romney nor Obummer.. both were fucking turds.
It was like voting for the South Park Election..

Giant Douche
Shit Sandwich
the sandwich won again.
 
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