Brexit Deal Voted down in "Historic Defeat" according to BBC News site (Brexit still happening but PM May is in trouble)

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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,657
5,346
136
What happens now? In a few weeks the UK is out and they have no trade deal with the EU?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
136
Seriously, the rank political cowardice just exhibited to the world by the British Parliament is likely the most galling example of such that any of us have ever seen in our lifetimes.
They deserve their fate.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,576
146
Backing out of the whole thing procedurally is pretty easy. We just say we arent leaving and everyone pretends this debacle never happened. They can do this with or without a new referendum.

The problem is most of the Tories want to leave, May is utterly wet and wont stand up for what she believes (she was a remainer before she realised that being a brexiteer gave her a better job), and the leader of the opposition has been anti EU for as long as hes been in politics (he voted against joining the EEC and has been eurosceptic ever since).
The only way we'll have another referendum or decide not to leave is if all the politicians suddenly admit that they are utterly incompetent and cant organise anything.

I have an idea: start a week-long soccer tournament between all the top whatever soc...er footballer? teams that you guys have over there, and offer free pints at all pubs during the final weekend for the finals and championship matches.

While the country is engaged in an entire week of beer and fisticuffs, Parliament convenes and decides to "cancel the idea" during the weekend; the survivors won't care.
 
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UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,843
9,092
136
Speaking of pints, I hope the British public realizes that a no-deal Brexit will likely result in Guinness skyrocketing in price or disappearing from the pub entirely (for a while).
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,849
13,785
146
This was a no win scenario. The no Brexiters would never be satisfied with brexit.

The pro brexiters would never be satisfied unless they got everything, a pony and a side order of hookers and blackjack.

No way May was going to thread that needle when she had to make a deal in the real world.

Although for a laugh (even if you find it gallows humor) check this out if you haven’t seen it yet:

 
Reactions: ElFenix

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,061
10,243
136
Speaking of pints, I hope the British public realizes that a no-deal Brexit will likely result in Guinness skyrocketing in price or disappearing from the pub entirely (for a while).

Oh don't worry, the Brexiteer Wetherspoons guy (Wetherspoons is a chain of so-so pubs in the UK) is trying to sort out a load of locally sourced equivalents, because we don't need icky foreign stuff.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,989
8,701
136
Oh don't worry, the Brexiteer Wetherspoons guy (Wetherspoons is a chain of so-so pubs in the UK) is trying to sort out a load of locally sourced equivalents, because we don't need icky foreign stuff.
Wetherspoons is a weird pub chain. Some of the pubs are lovely, some are tramp filled dives of stickiness! They are all cheap and have shit food though.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,722
6,201
126
This was a no win scenario. The no Brexiters would never be satisfied with brexit.

The pro brexiters would never be satisfied unless they got everything, a pony and a side order of hookers and blackjack.

No way May was going to thread that needle when she had to make a deal in the real world.

Although for a laugh (even if you find it gallows humor) check this out if you haven’t seen it yet:

I fell out of my chair.
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
13,622
2,189
126
A lot of Brexiters still seem to be of the 'fog in channel, continent cut-off' mentality. Convinced that the EU will now be desperate to offer concessions. As if our own political paralysis is a trump card (rather than a Trump card, which is something else entirely). We're pointing a gun at our own head while declaring that we now have them where we want them (presumably on the grounds we now have a hostage - admittedly the bullet will probably be a through-and-through and hit Ireland next).
"We used to be richer than each pre-european country individually, so surely if we now leave the EU, we will be richer than all the post-EU countries combined".
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,131
5,658
126
May has one of the worst jobs on the planet right now. I suspect that Losing the No Confidence had an attraction to her.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,061
10,243
136
May has one of the worst jobs on the planet right now. I suspect that Losing the No Confidence had an attraction to her.

She asked for the job, right after the referendum. No reasonably intelligent and informed person in their right mind could be in any doubt just how difficult Brexit could be, and it couldn't have been any more obvious that it would be the number 1 item on the new PM's agenda. I don't have any sympathy for her.

Though having said that, I do recall something the EU said early on in the negotiations was that May asked for something along the lines of a brief holiday from the EU and then come back in, only to be told "er, no".
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,213
136
May has one of the worst jobs on the planet right now. I suspect that Losing the No Confidence had an attraction to her.

Nah, she knew she'd win it - Tories don't vote themselves out of power. I don't understand her at all. No idea what motivates her to keep going. She's barely competent, she screws one thing up after another, but she is dogged and doesn't run away from responsibility like the likes of Boris Johnson.

I also think she's somewhat, passively, racist, given her past record as Home Secretary. Not Trump-level racism but an unthnking provincial white middle-class English sort of racism. That takes away any sympathy I might feel for her impossible job. Plus the job might be impossible, but she still manages to be not very good at it.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,061
10,243
136
Nah, she knew she'd win it - Tories don't vote themselves out of power. I don't understand her at all. No idea what motivates her to keep going. She's barely competent, she screws one thing up after another, but she is dogged and doesn't run away from responsibility like the likes of Boris Johnson.

I also think she's somewhat, passively, racist, given her past record as Home Secretary. Not Trump-level racism but an unthnking provincial white middle-class English sort of racism. That takes away any sympathy I might feel for her impossible job. Plus the job might be impossible, but she still manages to be not very good at it.

The DUP's part in all of this is most puzzling though, they seem to want the most rainbow unicorn Brexit of all: They want to stay with the UK, they don't want a hard border with Ireland, they don't want a soft Brexit... then there's the business of them joining the government in a coalition, then voting against May's deal, then voting to support keeping May's government in power.
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,784
2,336
136
Looking to me, from the outside, that it's going to be either hard brexit or a postponement/new referendum. I guess a lot depends on whether the EU would even grant a postponement, most people I've read think they won't unless it's for something as concrete as a new ref. Fascinating stuff, and yes the political will toward self-destruction seems even greater than our current Senate (which takes some doing).
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,061
10,243
136
IMO the only way a hard brexit gets through is via a second referendum and making Trump and the Russians look like a bunch of fucking amateurs at the fake news game.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,989
8,701
136
IMO the only way a hard brexit gets through is via a second referendum and making Trump and the Russians look like a bunch of fucking amateurs at the fake news game.
A hard Brexit is just going to be the default if Parliament cant get its arse in gear. I have no faith at all in Parliament agreeing on what they want never mind getting the EU to agree with it.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,061
10,243
136
A hard Brexit is just going to be the default if Parliament cant get its arse in gear. I have no faith at all in Parliament agreeing on what they want never mind getting the EU to agree with it.

I agree with you with regard to parliament agreeing on what they want from brexit, but agreeing on what they don't want seems to have gained some traction recently.

And as much talk as May is on the topic of no-deal, I think she'll bottle out every time because she knows most of her party absolutely won't support it, let alone the rest of parliament, and that's just aside from knowing the damage it would do if it went ahead.
 

Triloby

Senior member
Mar 18, 2016
587
275
136
Looking to me, from the outside, that it's going to be either hard brexit or a postponement/new referendum. I guess a lot depends on whether the EU would even grant a postponement, most people I've read think they won't unless it's for something as concrete as a new ref. Fascinating stuff, and yes the political will toward self-destruction seems even greater than our current Senate (which takes some doing).

The EU isn't gonna offer the UK any better than what they had before. The UK literally has only two months left before shit hits the fan. What better deal does the UK even THINK they'll get in two months time?

If May wants the EU to grant a postponement, she will have to prove to the EU that the postponement will be used for a second referendum or for holding a general election. I don't see her wanting to do any of those two options, IMO. If May is hoping for a postponement just to drag out this clusterfuck more than necessary, the EU will tell her to fuck off.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,989
8,701
136
I agree with you with regard to parliament agreeing on what they want from brexit, but agreeing on what they don't want seems to have gained some traction recently.

And as much talk as May is on the topic of no-deal, I think she'll bottle out every time because she knows most of her party absolutely won't support it, let alone the rest of parliament, and that's just aside from knowing the damage it would do if it went ahead.
No deal isn't something you agree to, its what happens when you cant agree on anything. And its looking increasingly likely that nothings going to be agreed to.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,061
10,243
136
No deal isn't something you agree to, its what happens when you cant agree on anything. And its looking increasingly likely that nothings going to be agreed to.

On Radio 4 David Blunkett was talking about no-deal could be legislated against so that revoking Article 50 becomes the default or asking the EU for a delay on Article 50.
 
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