Brexit Deal Voted down in "Historic Defeat" according to BBC News site (Brexit still happening but PM May is in trouble)

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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
136
Parlment has voted to extend Article 50. Remains to be seen if May will ask for a short delay (months) or a long one (possibly years). Given the last two years I don’t know what utility a short delay would have, probably none so obviously that’s what they’ll ask for.

Also all EU members must agree to grant it.

....


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...raising-the-stakes-brexit-update?srnd=premium

May Asks EU for Brexit Extension Until June 30: Brexit Update

Prime Minister Theresa May has asked the European Union for an extension to the Brexit deadline until June 30, she told lawmakers in the House of Commons, after pro-Brexit ministers objected to being stuck in the bloc for much longer. It increases the chances that the U.K. could crash out of the bloc at the end of June, and could make for a tense meeting with European leaders on Thursday.


I have to say...well done UK.

 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
....


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...raising-the-stakes-brexit-update?srnd=premium

May Asks EU for Brexit Extension Until June 30: Brexit Update




I have to say...well done UK.


It's been a master class in self-immolation.

I can tell you my company has been busy limiting our exposure to a no deal brexit, which means pulling out any ties or support functions out of the UK and moving them to an EU country.

Overall the UK is a much smaller econ than the EU bloc, so we'll protect the EU business/customers as a priority, even if it means sacrificing some efficiency or customers in the UK.

Damage is already happening.
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,061
10,243
136
If Brexit happens, I wonder how many Remainers will be telling the tories to go fuck themselves for life.
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
If Brexit happens, I wonder how many Remainers will be telling the tories to go fuck themselves for life.

I think we need to tell all the main parties to go fuck themselves.

A big chunk of the arses sitting in Parliament should be in jail. There's plenty - like Aaron Banks, Louise Mench, Farage - outside of it who should be behind bars too.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Well, Brits, it looks like the Brexiteers have set the controls for the heart of the sun & nobody in a leadership position can change it. Not to mention that both Cameron & Corbyn are feckless cunts.

It's just sad. It's particularly sad following on the heels of Tory austerity. I guess y'all are gonna have to live it to figure it out.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,213
136
The public are tired of political games, says the PM who is still playing political games.

What a bitch.

Don't do her the favour of being sexist!

She's a racist, incompetent, cynical, self-serving, hypocritical waste-of-carbon.

Though I still find it hard to believe the sheer number of factors that had to coincide to get us into this mess. Never mind Putin, I think it's a conspiracy by God. Or maybe the other guy.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,345
2,705
136
Don't do her the favour of being sexist!

She's a racist, incompetent, cynical, self-serving, hypocritical waste-of-carbon.

Though I still find it hard to believe the sheer number of factors that had to coincide to get us into this mess. Never mind Putin, I think it's a conspiracy by God. Or maybe the other guy.
conspiracy of stupidity is more likely

edit:
that actually sounds like the name of a band.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,213
136
conspiracy of stupidity is more likely

edit:
that actually sounds like the name of a band.

But so many different, and largely unrelated, sources of stupidity are involved though. That's what gets me, it required all of them to come together at once.

There's the stupidity of the invasion of Iraq (which partly precipitated the refugee issue).

The global banking crisis (that removed the healing balm of money, that all-purpose analgesic that soothes all distress, from the system).

The Euro crisis (that made the EU itself look far less appealing and succesful and also drove another unprecedented wave of migration to the unregulated Victorian workhouse that is the UK).

Austerity.

The unnecessarily decision by New Labour to open the doors to the A8 many years before the rest of the EU did (which itself stemmed from the deeply-rooted short-termism of that government, the same thing that meant it didn't do anything to regulate the banking sector - they just did anything that seemed to keep the show on the road a bit longer, with no thought for the longer-term consequences - see also PFI, though that one isn't particularly a causal factor in Brexit).

The stupidity of Theresa May in holding an entirely unnecessary election when she did, and then cocking it up to _just_ the right degree to create paralysis and hand huge influence to the DUP (if she'd cocked it up more comprehensively a majority Labour government might not have gone the same route, as with a decent majority, paradoxically, Corbyn would have had a lot of difficulty keeping his MPs in line).

The idiotic careerism of Clegg and the Orange-booker Lib Dems, who effectively obliterated the one pro-EU party, just in time for this crisis to break.

And the deep structural stupidity in British culture that means we'll tug our forelocks and doff our caps for any group of abject incompetents as long as they went to the "right" schools. Leading to the clown crew of Cameron and his pals holding a referendum with no thought of where it might lead.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,061
10,243
136
Don't do her the favour of being sexist!

She's a racist, incompetent, cynical, self-serving, hypocritical waste-of-carbon.

Though I still find it hard to believe the sheer number of factors that had to coincide to get us into this mess. Never mind Putin, I think it's a conspiracy by God. Or maybe the other guy.

If the PM was a guy I would have called him a dick. She's a she so I called her a bitch. I can call her a dick if it pleases you

IMO only one factor got us into this current mess: May insisting on dragging it out this far. If she had an ounce of grit, she would have done the sensible thing being to revoke Article 50 after her deal got shot down in flames. Instead - my guess anyway - her ego demands that Brexit has to be her achievement. I'd put down a solid bet that no matter what the outcome of Brexit is, she'll be resigning.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
136
Looking more likely the EU has to have this decided one way or the other and soon given the lack of any progress with the real problem which is UK political deadlock. It would seem a long term indefinite extension is pretty much out of the question as well. Things finally coming to a head.



https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/21/brexit-eu-rejects-theresa-may-request-delay-control

Brexit: EU poised to insist on withdrawal no later than 22 May

The European Union is poised to take control of Britain’s exit by rejecting Theresa May’s request for a three-month delay and setting a new withdrawal date of no later than 22 May.

The prime minister is seeking an extension of the negotiating period to 30 June to allow the necessary legislation to be passed should she finally get MPs to back her deal next week.

But EU ambassadors at a meeting late on Wednesday night agreed that the risks of having the UK as a member state beyond 23 May, when European elections are due, were too high.

Sources said that during the discussions some member states favoured a longer period and some a shorter one, but that the room coalesced around 22 May as the absolute limit.

The EU’s legal service had indicated that 1 July was the real “legal backstop” for an extension, as the parliament convenes on 2 July.

But the chaos in Westminster has convinced the EU capitals of the dangers that the UK would end up remaining a member state beyond even then without British MEPs having been elected. Such a result could leave the EU’s institutions in “paralysis”, the bloc’s lawyers have advised.

The prime minister’s insistence, in her letter seeking an extension and in the Commons, that she would not hold elections while in Downing Street helped to crystallise the EU’s thinking, sources said.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,213
136
If the PM was a guy I would have called him a dick. She's a she so I called her a bitch. I can call her a dick if it pleases you

IMO only one factor got us into this current mess: May insisting on dragging it out this far. If she had an ounce of grit, she would have done the sensible thing being to revoke Article 50 after her deal got shot down in flames. Instead - my guess anyway - her ego demands that Brexit has to be her achievement. I'd put down a solid bet that no matter what the outcome of Brexit is, she'll be resigning.


Honestly, that word has certain connotations to me. There's a reason why it's gender-specific. To me it carries an unfortunate overtone of defeat - it seems to get used by blokes whose ex-wife or gf has got one over on them or a female co-worker has outwitted them etc. If I were a woman I wouldn't regard it as a very effective insult. It's almost a compliment.

I mean, she's already vacuously proud of Ken Clarke's weak 'insult-that's-pretty-much-a-compliment' in calling her a 'bloody difficult woman'. I think she imagines it makes her like Thatcher, re appropriating the term 'iron lady'. But she's no Thatcher. I respected Thatcher, even as she was 'the enemy' (and, in the end, pretty much a fascist, in her obvious admiration for Pinochet), she was competent and stood for something. May is just an empty vessel. All she seems to have is mild racism and a bit of personal ambition.

But whatever...

May certainly is a major contributor to the fiasco. But then, why did she end up as PM and why is she still there? Clearly she can't be the sole factor or she'd not be in the job or be gone by now.

Not the least bizarre thing about this is that Corbyn is hated by many Labour MPs, and May is apparently not on speaking terms with most of hers, including her entire cabinet. Yet Vince Cable is the only one who has resigned! I guess he figured his MPs don't hate his guts so he must be doing it wrong (admittedly it woudln't surprise me if some of his MPs have forgotten who he is - it took me a while to remember who he was when I heard he'd quit).
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I think the most constructive thing the EU can do is to just say they're done talking, that the Brits can have soft, have it hard or not have it at all whenever they quit dithering. Set no time table & go about their business.

On the other side of it, UK politics have devolved to the point that some intervention from the Queen would be very helpful. Parliament would probably welcome some direction from the Crown. It would take the heat off of them. Apparently not yet-

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/25/world/europe/queen-elizabeth-brexit-britain.html
 

walkur

Senior member
May 1, 2001
771
4
81
It's like the driver (england) of a car with 3 passergers (wales, scotland & N-I) is playing chicken with a full greyhound bus.
 
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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
I think the most constructive thing the EU can do is to just say they're done talking, that the Brits can have soft, have it hard or not have it at all whenever they quit dithering. Set no time table & go about their business.

On the other side of it, UK politics have devolved to the point that some intervention from the Queen would be very helpful. Parliament would probably welcome some direction from the Crown. It would take the heat off of them. Apparently not yet-

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/25/world/europe/queen-elizabeth-brexit-britain.html

The EU does not want this to drag on indefinitely, and it really looks like if they don't put a time frame on it that is what will happen. The UK does not at this time have the political will to do anything about it, they are in full political paralysis on the issue.

This issue is creating a lot of economic anxiety. At some point doing nothing becomes a lot more damaging than any of the other options. It is best set a hard date and tell the UK that if they can't decide it will be decided for them. They are going to need that kick in the pants to get the political machinery moving again.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,561
13,122
136
Off the cliff it is then.
Be sure to send a Thank You card to the Vlad.
On the positive side, even the most outspoken critics of EU has now dialed it back to "reform EU from within" after watching this shitshow.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
Off the cliff it is then.
Be sure to send a Thank You card to the Vlad.
On the positive side, even the most outspoken critics of EU has now dialed it back to "reform EU from within" after watching this shitshow.

And remember, the referendum that’s causing the UK to leap off this cliff is 100% non-binding.

Lol.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
At some point doing nothing becomes a lot more damaging than any of the other options.

Doing nothing, remaining, was the best option in the first place. It still is.

Too bad that UK politicians are so feckless that they can't just say that. And they're apparently dumb enough to let hard Brexit happen which would undoubtedly stir up the troubles in Ireland & give the Scots more reason to secede.

It's all as dumb as Trumpism, only worse. Trump is a temporary problem. Brexit is forever. Anybody who thinks the EU won't drive a harder bargain than they did the first time if the UK wants back in down the road isn't thinking straight.

When you let the Fuck You's get out of hand you'll get fucked yourself.
 
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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
Doing nothing, remaining, was the best option in the first place. It still is.

Yes it is, and always has been. But they have to make that decision. I know the Clash was a beloved Brittish band, but the whole 'Should I stay or Should I go' bit can not work long term.

It's all as dumb as Trumpism, only worse. Trump is a temporary problem. Brexit is forever. Anybody who thinks the EU won't drive a harder bargain than they did the first time if the UK wants back in down the road isn't thinking straight.

I think the UK has fucked itself when it comes to the EU no matter what happens. It is going to be a long time before the members of the EU give a damn about what the UK wants, even if they choose to stay. They are rightfully going to be treated like spoiled children who threw a tantrum.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,561
13,122
136
Its quite obvious why some factors want a hard Brexit.. The economic shift downwards is going to create an super pissed off middle -> soon to be lower/lower middle class - PERFECT conditions to further seed and culture the populist authoritarian agenda.


edit : Arh ... 22nd of May it is then.
 
Last edited:

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
136
EU has extended the deadline to April 12. Further extension looks really really unlikely. EU looks beyond frustrated and is going to want a resolution one way or the other.

European leaders on Thursday seized control of Britain’s departure from the European Union, sparing British Prime Minister Theresa May the economic earthquake of an uncontrolled split from the European Union next week but demanding that she pass a deal or come up with an alternative by April 12.

The decision was a harsh verdict on May’s political acumen. Nearly two hours of withering cross-examination led her fellow leaders to believe she had no political strategy to pass a divorce deal nor knew how Britain would weather an uncontrolled Brexit next Friday.

May had promised the British people that Brexit would help them take back control from Europe. Instead, she found that her 27 fellow E.U. leaders took back decision-making from her, dictating a political calendar for the coming weeks that gives both sides a time to prepare for the worst-case scenario.

In footage of the E.U. leaders greeting one another in Brussels before settling in for business, May joked with Luxembourg’s prime minister, who just minutes before had echoed Macron and threatened to cast Britain out of the E.U. without a deal. She exchanged a tense and unsmiling double-cheek-peck with European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, with whom she has tangled and who has taken a particularly hard line against her.

May opened the session with other heads of state by reading part of the letter she sent a day earlier, a move that frustrated leaders hoping for explanations of her plans. Then the leaders, sitting around a ring-shaped table, peppered her with questions about how she could pass the deal in Parliament despite it having failed twice already, according to an E.U. official familiar with what happened in the room.

“You could feel the patience running thin,” the official said. The official and others spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the closed-door discussions.

Another diplomat described the discussion as “a bit like coming from another planet.” May presented no convincing details about her political strategy, no insights into what she would do if Britain crashed out without a deal and no willingness to make concessions, the diplomat said.

“E.U. leaders do not have a lot of illusions. And they are pretty limited in how to help her,” the diplomat said.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...c5d0999c21e_story.html?utm_term=.a14baf80bf9f
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,561
13,122
136
Spanish Gibraltar would be a hell of a thing to see.

yea that is one of those things ... where if all is cool with that arrangement then power to them.. But ffs what is GB still doing there...
 
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