Brian & Anand Hate SD Card's in Phones

[cheezy321]

Again, this is purely a thing of personal preference. A lot of you are acting like the bitcoin zealots on other boards. You have to convert everyone to your way of thinking. You berate and mock anyone who doesn't line up with your ideals. The reviewers try to be as impartial as they can but they will always have their own preferences. At least they own up to them and explain their reasoning. What else do you expect? For them to change their mind immediately and cater to your every demand? There are a lot of people out there who just dont give a damn whether or not an SD card slot is included.
Even more that dont want a gigantic screen on their phone. Some don't care for a removable battery. Lots of people don't like plastic on their phone. Lots of people dont like aluminum unibody phones. Others can't live without an SD slot. It's up to each individual handset maker to decide which consumer they want to target. I don't believe there is some mass conspiracy where google is trying to get all handset makers to remove SD card slots. Money and sales will always win out.

Different companies cater to different users. Do I think the majority of people flock Samsung phones because of SD cards? Hell no. They flock to Samsung because of their gigantic marketing budget. I am sure there is a group of people that love SD cards and buy their phone specifically for that reason. But to try and make the reviewers change their personal preferences is a useless effort.

 

[BoberFett]

First off I'm a huge fan of Anandtech, and particularly of Brian and Anand. AT's Mobile device reviews have better technical data by far than the other tech-review sites and for this reason I rarely buy or recommend a device before I've seen an AT review.

That said, any mobile device that doesn't have a removal battery is a mobile device with an expiration date. Batteries are temperamental, leave you're phone in the sun a few times while it's charging or quickly discharging and you take an unacceptable, and unfixable hit in battery life.

Brian and Anand don't have to care about the possibility of temperature extremes reducing the cell's energy density, or about the certainty of the cell's cycle life expiring because they upgrade to the latest and greatest every other month (or at least every other 6 mos). But I'm quite sure there is a large slice of the market (20% at least) who want a phone that will last as long as a desktop PC, this may not be realistic (though it may be as the market matures), but there definitely exists among most consumers the desire for a device they don't have to worry about replacing until some satisfyingly-distant point in the future.

My sister and brother in law just this month asked me to recommend a decent, moderately priced phone that they could buy outright and wouldn't have to worry about replacing for a long time (3+ years) what to recommend? GS3 hands down. The battery (which will almost certainly not last 3 plus years) can be replaced, the storage can be upgraded, it supports trim and if you put a half decent case and a screen protector on it you can drop it 100 times.

While the objective content of AT's mobile device reviews Is great I have to say I think the subjective content is getting out of touch with the main stream user. Like a wine connoisseur who turns his nose up at anything but the finest vintage (I promise no more metaphors), Brian and Anand have developed a taste (or so it seems to me) for precision machined aluminum that those not counted among the technophile cognoscenti don't relate to. Most people could care less (at least most people I know, and I teach at a very engineering-oriented left-brain-centered university) about whether or not the phone is unibody aluminum (they don't even know what that is) or how precise the manufacturing of that unibody is (will they subconsciously like it? Probably, but it still won't be, and I think shouldn't be, a primary consideration).
What matters is that the device doesn't break when you drop it, it more or less fits in your hand, and it's not an attention-grabbing level of ugly (which very few devices are, and most of them have cases on them anyway). It seems to me that the subjective portion of many recent AT reviews has biased the tone of the review one way or another without a kind of justification that would be recognized as valid by a majority of consumers (or AT readers).

The response to this thread on AT struck me as uncharacteristically incomplete. Yes they are totally and utterly right when it comes to people like themselves who don't mind spending a lot on cell phones and data plans and believe that their devices should also be fashionable accessories. But a significant percentage of people (I would guess the majority) don't fall in this camp, and insulting them on twitter as "cheap" (or "poor" or whatever it was) is unhelpful and snobbish.

This whole post is spot on, 100%.

And Brian comes off as a real prick with his response.

 

[openwheel]

Why wouldn't Apple put a optical drive/burner in the MBP?
Why wouldn't dell put a floppy disc drive in the computer?

Duh! Because they would rather sell you a harddrive for an outrageous price. It's all about maximum profit and minimal cost. Fact is, without an SD card slot, we still line up in the freezing cold to buy it. So why should they include an SD card slot?

 

[BoberFett]

You can cry and whine all you want. Fact is they don't want to spend millions to implement SD card and they are over charging idiots for additional internal storage. You are beating yourself up for an SD card slot when there are simple work around. Very ironic. Perhaps you will get it some day.

Are they not spending millions to engineer and manufacture every feature on the phone?

Oh no, faster CPUs cost millions, stop upgrading!

Bigger nicer screens cost millions, stop improving the screen!

 

[DaveSimmons]

My apologies for not reading all 12 pages.

Right now I have an iPod 120 GB with about 63 GB of MP3s on it, transcoded from FLAC (which was ripped from my CDs). That isn't even my entire music collection.

If I want to replace that with a phone when it dies, I either need a phone with 96 - 128 GB of internal storage or one that supports SD cards.

To me a phone or music player is a tool not a status symbol. I bought the iPod not because it was iStuff but because it was the cheapest r120GB player out at the time. Give me storage not bling.

I'd also rather have a user-replaceable battery than have the device be 0.01" thinner and/o free of "ugly" seams for the compartment.

 

[openwheel]

Are they not spending millions to engineer and manufacture every feature on the phone?

Oh no, faster CPUs cost millions, stop upgrading!

Bigger nicer screens cost millions, stop improving the screen!

It's about what sells. Bigger screen sells. More power sells. Beautiful exterior sells. Do you ever see Samsung touting having SD card slot in a SuperBowl commercial? No, they rather you upgrade to the 32/64gig version and forget about the SD card slot.

I don't understand the complaining. If anything, we should be complaining that 32gig internal storage should be standard by now. Instead we are still B#@%ING about SD card slot....?? While willingly selling kidneys for miserable 16gig extra storage.

 

[TerryMathews]

Again, this is purely a thing of personal preference. A lot of you are acting like the bitcoin zealots on other boards. You have to convert everyone to your way of thinking. You berate and mock anyone who doesn't line up with your ideals. The reviewers try to be as impartial as they can but they will always have their own preferences. At least they own up to them and explain their reasoning. What else do you expect? For them to change their mind immediately and cater to your every demand? There are a lot of people out there who just dont give a damn whether or not an SD card slot is included.
Even more that dont want a gigantic screen on their phone. Some don't care for a removable battery. Lots of people don't like plastic on their phone. Lots of people dont like aluminum unibody phones. Others can't live without an SD slot. It's up to each individual handset maker to decide which consumer they want to target. I don't believe there is some mass conspiracy where google is trying to get all handset makers to remove SD card slots. Money and sales will always win out.

Different companies cater to different users. Do I think the majority of people flock Samsung phones because of SD cards? Hell no. They flock to Samsung because of their gigantic marketing budget. I am sure there is a group of people that love SD cards and buy their phone specifically for that reason. But to try and make the reviewers change their personal preferences is a useless effort.

This is the 290X thread over again. Its fine that Brian and Anand have their personal preferences on SD cards or aluminum or sound levels or whatever.

The point is that they should write their reviews so that they are useful to both people who share their viewpoints and those who don't.

Does Autoweek say "automatics suck" and refuse to quote 0-60 times? Of course not.

Those of us that are complaining just want reviews for tech written to the same professional standards they are in other industries. It's not too much to ask, it's how things used to be done here.

 

[Cerb]

I doubt that. Sd cards haven't really advanced that quickly in the past several years, prices have gone down. But performance and capacity have remained in the same area. You'll likely just see the slow decline of sd card slots in devices in the next 2-5 years. I could be wrong but i haven't even heard of anyone making a new faster standard that gives greater capacity, which leads me to think it isn't going to stick around too long. Niche devices still might have them though.

You mean like SDXC (2TB) and UHS-II (300MBps)?

because you shouldn't have to settle for shitty sd card performance when internal memory is faster and cheap. If oems started offering 64gb standard with no SD card, would you rather have that or a 16gb with sd card slot? Id take 64gb internal over 16gb and microsd any day even though technically you could get more storage potential from the sd card

Both. The SD card slot allows for expanding storage. It should not be an exclusive choice. Once expanded storage is big enough, I'd love to have a decent selection of my music collection with me most of the time, for instance, and that's not going to be available, much less affordable, with internal storage, any time soon. It'll take another NAND shrink before MicroSD can do that at a decent price.

So how cheap is it to go from a 32GB iPhone to a 64GB iPhone?

How cheap is it to go from a 32GB HTC One to a 64GB HTC One?

If those phones offered uSD slot how much would it cost to add 32GB of storage?


Brian

Digikey's prices make it about $50 for the flash difference, but I'm sure that varies a lot, when you can talk directly to the manufacturer.

The iPhone costs $100 more for another 32GB.

The HTC One costs anywhere from $70 to infinity more, depending how you are trying to buy it, for another 32GB (64GB is not offered from HTC w/o carrier-locked phones).

A decent 32GB MicroSDHC costs $25-30. But, it will also be palpably slower, for anything but multimedia stream reading, and I wouldn't trust anything on it that wasn't already backed up elsewhere, due to years of less than stellar experiences, even with what should be decent FSes on them. Mine was noticeably slower for my email, FI, so I decided to use my precious internal memory for mailboxes, with attachments going to the SD. For music and video, the unreliability of SD and the FAT FSes aren't a big deal, so having tiered phone storage is not a real problem. The typical small size of the unmodifiable fast tier, though, can be such a problem. And, by the time 64GB becomes the common small size, like 16GB is now, I'll be wanting more from expanded storage, just as we've all cyclically done over the years in PCs.

Why wouldn't Apple put a optical drive/burner in the MBP?

Because they are nearly obsolete, take up space, and reduce the total machine's reliability. Apple isn't alone, nor were they first.

Why wouldn't dell put a floppy disc drive in the computer?

BIOS flashing can be done within Windows, and that was the last decent reason to keep floppy drives around. They were practically obsolete a decade ago, and now exist solely for retrieving old records and software.

So why should they include an SD card slot?

Because it's not obsolete.

 

[evonitzer]

The reason Brian comes off as a prick is because there is nothing to discuss. He doesn't care about SD-slots and removable batteries. You do. End of story. It's purely a specification point.

This whole thread talks about your reasoning and the manufacturing cost and many tertiary topics. But it just comes back to the specs.

So what do you people want? What part of a review should be dedicated to SD-Slots and Batteries? Should the just have a page of every review fawning over phones with them and trashing phones without? Do you want Brian/Anand to demonstrate your exact (and super awesome) use case where SD-slots and removable batteries are completely necessary?

Many of you are just binary about it anyway, so there's no point highlighting it in the review. Don't have an SD-slot = won't buy. Again, end of story. Don't even read the review!

It's a similar story about AMO-LED and LCD. He prefers LCD and acknowledges it in his review, whereas I find the uber blacks of AMOLED to be alluring (and my current LCD phone has a terrible display). What is there to discuss?

 

[sweenish]

They certainly don't seem objective in their approach to sdcards.

This is true, they don't like SD cards in phones. I don't think they're knocking phones for including them, though. That's what I meant. They're also not praising phones for including them. They treat it as a non-issue, which means they're not bringing their own bias into the review.

So what do we care what their preferences are?

The actual merits debate is interesting. The whining about staff members' preferences that don't affect their objectivity is absolutely not.

 

[s44]

The reason Brian comes off as a prick is because there is nothing to discuss. He doesn't care about SD-slots and removable batteries.

He does care. He doesn't want them.

People are basically throwing a fit because staff members' preferences don't line up with their own.

This discussion is way too heated for what it is.

LOL. Most of this thread (and the post) has been anti-SD people throwing ad hominems at pro-SD folks for daring to want a choice.

I'm not sure whether we're supposed to be cheapasses or dinosaurs or emotionally worked up or whatever at this point... None are in fact correct.

 

[cheezy321]

This is true, they don't like SD cards in phones. I don't think they're knocking phones for including them, though. That's what I meant. They're also not praising phones for including them. They treat it as a non-issue, which means they're not bringing their own bias into the review.

So what do we care what their preferences are?

The actual merits debate is interesting. The whining about staff members' preferences that don't affect their objectivity is absolutely not.

This. So much this.

 

[cheezy321]

He does care. He doesn't want them.

LOL. Most of this thread (and the post) has been anti-SD people throwing ad hominems at pro-SD folks for daring to want a choice.

I'm not sure whether we're supposed to be cheapasses or dinosaurs or emotionally worked up or whatever at this point... None are in fact correct.

Yep, those pro-SD people are so brave. You are certainly martyrs for your cause.

Actually most of this thread has been the same 5 people pushing their agenda and pushing it very hard. Then there are others telling them to get over someone elses personal preference. It's their opinion. You have yours, they have theirs. Simple as that.

 

[sweenish]

He does care. He doesn't want them.

LOL. Most of this thread (and the post) has been anti-SD people throwing ad hominems at pro-SD folks for daring to want a choice.

I'm not sure whether we're supposed to be cheapasses or dinosaurs or emotionally worked up or whatever at this point... None are in fact correct.

I don't care who, and calling them out only fuels it more. It would just be nice if people calmed down. I've not read the entire thread, but "throwing ad-hominems" and "daring to want a choice" sounds like a lot of hyperbole to me. Especially that last one. It's hardly daring when about half the phones on the market offer that choice.

It hasn't come to moderation yet, but some folks have been skirting the line in this thread, I'm sure.

In fact, all posts talking about the editors should just be removed and the title changed. Their preferences may have been what started the discussion, but it doesn't bias reviews and is only being used anymore for trash talking.

 

[s44]

I don't care who

You, among others. "Throwing a fit" isn't neutral language, especially from one claiming the high ground.

It's hardly daring when about half the phones on the market offer that choice.

The thread started from Brian's bizarre contention that the option will soon disappear. As I said, counting models instead of units.

 

[mnewsham]

for daring to want a choice.

So brave

 

[sweenish]

You, among others. "Throwing a fit" isn't neutral language, especially from one claiming the high ground.
The thread started from Brian's bizarre contention that the option will soon disappear. As I said, counting models instead of units.

Throwing a fit also doesn't call out a subset of the people posting, which you did. And it isn't neutral, per se, but it's an accurate description.

People are throwing fits. I've read enough to know that much for certain.

I'm also not "throwing ad hominems at pro-SD folks for daring to want a choice," I'm calling what I'm seeing and wanting people to calm down over a non-issue. Go ahead and find a single post in this thread where I did that.

 

[dawheat]

It's a similar story about AMO-LED and LCD. He prefers LCD and acknowledges it in his review, whereas I find the uber blacks of AMOLED to be alluring (and my current LCD phone has a terrible display). What is there to discuss?

Wouldn't the analog be a reviewer who prefers LCDs stating that AMOLEDs are pointless b/c LCDs are brighter and this is confirmed by most models using LCDs? Therefore the market has spoken and AMOLEDs will soon disappear? Sales by number don't imply anything and it's not AMOLEDs that make Samsung popular, but their marketing budget.

I think the pro-SD crowd is just asking that an Anandtech review doesn't disparage SD card support and simply chalk it up as an unimportant feature simply b/c the reviewers don't have a need for it.

A phone having a micro-SD slot is not unimportant or pointless - it's a feature like any other that some use and some don't. But IMO it's no less important than a larger battery (which light/medium users may never see the advantage) or front speakers (which headphone users may not care about).

<edit>What I would like to see is Anand and Brian being more assertive against the current internal pricing scheme, especially Apple. I don't know how as consumer reviewers, they give a free pass for $100 increments for BOM increases that are single digit. Instead they read the industry line to either use the cloud and/or people don't need storage. For those that do, pay $100-$200 more and don't complain about any lack of alternative.

 

[lopri]

There isn't much more to be said about the internal illogic and lack of self-awareness on the article posted that haven't been pointed out by many comments in the comments section and on this board, but I want to make one observation on yet another nonsensical path they appear to embrace rather readily.

It took a while for this to sink in, but Brian's recommendation to charge opportunistically finally clicked with me. I used to delay charging my smartphone battery until it dropped below a certain level and I absolutely needed to, but plugging in opportunistically is a change I've made lately that really makes a lot of sense to me now.

There is no explanation as to why it makes sense to him, or should it to anyone else. And just like that, it seems like they are ready to advocate "opportunistic charging" as something that we should learn to live with, or "it's going to be that way whether you like it or not" type of bare assertion that they make so often with no factual or logical justification. I just wanted to bring attention to this nonsense so that people know where it have come in the future.

 

[dawheat]

I don't care who, and calling them out only fuels it more. It would just be nice if people calmed down. I've not read the entire thread, but "throwing ad-hominems" and "daring to want a choice" sounds like a lot of hyperbole to me. Especially that last one. It's hardly daring when about half the phones on the market offer that choice.

It hasn't come to moderation yet, but some folks have been skirting the line in this thread, I'm sure.

In fact, all posts talking about the editors should just be removed and the title changed. Their preferences may have been what started the discussion, but it doesn't bias reviews and is only being used anymore for trash talking.

lol - I'm guessing you never make it out to P&N. Reading this thread has seemed incredibly controlled IMO and there haven't been any attacks to speak of unless you have painfully thin skin. Hyperbole? Throwing a fit? I don't think you know what those actually are

But it's probably my fault for occasionally delving into P&N.

 

[sweenish]

lol - I'm guessing you never make it out to P&N. Reading this thread has seemed incredibly controlled IMO and there haven't been any attacks to speak of unless you have painfully thin skin. Hyperbole? Throwing a fit? I don't think you know what those actually are

But it's probably my fault for occasionally delving into P&N.

I suppose where I applied the labels may be mild in comparison to to P&N, but you're right that I avoid that board.

Even so, this discussion could use some tempering. Politics and smartphone SD cards shouldn't really get the same amount of heat.

 

[sham63]

Context.

The debate itself (merits of SD cards in phones) was not the point of my post. I certainly don't feel like the objectivity of their reviews has been compromised in the least. People are basically throwing a fit because staff members' preferences don't line up with their own. It's ridiculous.

I used to be on the SD card side. Then I got a phone with more storage baked in. With my usage, all that happens with more storage is that more junk is kept. So, I actually don't care for SD cards anymore and just buy phones that have enough storage for my needs.

Other people are not like me. I don't think they're wrong. This discussion is way too heated for what it is.

I don't think it is about whether they like sd cards in phones or not. I don't really care if they prefer them or not. It is just his attitude to the people that like and use sd cards that seems wrong to me. He acts like just because he is a reviewer his preferences are right and others are not. I am not angry, just stating my opinion. That twitter post was not his best idea. That is all.

Jim

 

[lopri]

And think about this for a minute. Google wants to get rid of micro-SD or any external storage option from Android because they only confuse users.... then,

"Chromebook 16 GB with 2 years of free 2TB Google Drive storage"

Make it what you will.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Currently, the most storage you get without adding a uSD card is 64GB and with a uSD card it's 128GB -- who could need more than that?

I'll bet that many here will have 256GB and more in 5 years -- I know I'd want as much as I can get.

We've been over this before but if you use your phone to source video, HD video that is, you'll need 8GB+ per hour. In a few years we'll be sourcing 4K video from our phones and that will eat more like 25GB/hour.

10 years from now many here will have 1TB or more!


Brian

 

[blairharrington]

I hate the Verge Mobile podcast but I was told they discussed the AnandTech post in response to this thread. You can listen for yourself at the 20:26 mark of episode 70. Of the four panelists only 1 was going to make case for SD cards and his feed got cut off and I couldn't get myself to keep listening to potentially hear his side. At one point Vlad makes the case against SD cards because they are too small and too easy to lose. I can't stress enough how crap that podcast is. Production value alone is a joke.

Keeping up with this thread just hammers home for me at least how valuable SD cards truly are in phones.