Bring on the CableCards!!

[erwos]

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Without requiring the BIOS hack?

Yes

Um, no. Not sure where you're getting your info from, but it's wrong - CableCard tuners have been very tightly controlled until now.

I am SO thinking an Ion HTPC box now. Maybe when they've got proper 7.1 sound output.

Actually he is correct. The hack uses the same method used to trick Vista and W7 into thinking it's an OEM pc and activate. It loads before windows and gives the OS false bios information.

The problem with the hack, though, is that CableLabs could kill your CableCards whenever they wanted. It was not really much of a long-term solution...

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Without requiring the BIOS hack?

Yes

Um, no. Not sure where you're getting your info from, but it's wrong - CableCard tuners have been very tightly controlled until now.

I am SO thinking an Ion HTPC box now. Maybe when they've got proper 7.1 sound output.

Actually he is correct. The hack uses the same method used to trick Vista and W7 into thinking it's an OEM pc and activate. It loads before windows and gives the OS false bios information.

Yes, but he was claiming it was possible to use an OCUR DCT without the hack and that simply was not the case. Previously, either your motherboard had to have the proper BIOS table entry (the vast majority didn't) or the hack had to be used. Now the hack will no longer be required.

Regardless, I'm looking forward to this. It should finally be possible to set up a centralized Media Center system that can dish out any live or recorded shows to any TV in the house (through media extenders) without having to drop 3 grand+ for an OEM OCUR build. Currently I'm on DirecTV and they were supposedly working on having internal/external tuners available already. If they don't get on the ball before the Centon tuners come out, I'll be switching back to cable.

 

[Shawn]

That's always a possibility, however if microsoft hasn't done anything about it yet I doubt they will either.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

MS is likely very happy about the move. It should mean more people using Media Center and MS loves nothing better than more customers. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that it was MS behind the scenes pushing CableLabs to drop the special BIOS requirement.

 

[Booty]

So, what's the ETA on these things, and what's the actual setup process? I'm assuming you just have to somehow register/activate the card with your provider?

This is great news... right now I don't use my HTPC to watch or record live TV. Didn't buy a tuner card 6 months ago when I built it because everything I read seemed to indicate that it would be worthless after the digital conversion. I figured I'd be stuck with a damn cable box attached to every TV.

Now I'll be able to have it the way I really would prefer... 1 central HTPC w/ tuner, extenders (of some type) in other rooms. I mean, even if it's a full-on ION based computer it doesn't matter... just as long as I can hide it somehow (behind a wall-mounted TV or whatever) and tie it back to the main HTPC.

Can't wait to see how this all shakes out...

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

The Centon tuners reportedly will be available sometime in early 2010.

You could buy the ATi tuners now, assuming there is or shortly will be a firmware update that negates the internal flag for the BIOS check. However, the ATi tuners are single stream devices. The Centon unit uses an M-Card (multi-stream) and can tune up to 4 channels througha single card. You'd need 4 of the ATi DCTs (and have to rent 4 cableCARDS from your provider) to get the same capability.

The setup process will simply be a matter of calling your cable company, requesting an M-Card cableCARD, and crossing your fingers that they know what they are doing.

 

[CZroe]

This is the best news I've heard in ages. I had to call my cable company earlier this month to bitch about not having closed captioning on non-HD/OD programming and they blamed it on the HDMI output not carrying it. No shit, Sherlock. There is no "vblank interval" for the CRT's scanning electron gun to reset to fill in the alternate lines (where CC info is inserted into analog broadcasts). That's why you encapsulate it in the digital stream and let the box decode and overlay it JUST LIKE IT DOES FOR THE DIGITAL HD and ON DEMAND CHANNELS. What *REALLY* pissed me off was that I couldn't make my own CableCARD PC DVR specifically because they wanted to ensure that CC worked. Why weren't they enforcing that on big businesses that force their hardware boxes down your throat?

 

[scootermaster]

I'm super excited about this. We're some BluRay software away from building everyone's dream box (and replace a lot of expensive hardware)

- BluRay with 7.1/bitstreaming/etc (BR player)
- HD CableTV including premiums DVR (Tivo)
- Lossless audio (AppleTV)
- Emulation (NES/SNES/Etc)
- Internet Content (AppleTV)
- Media/File server

Throw it in stereo-rack like case and, um, that's pretty much the holy grail, isn't it?

 

[A5]

A 4 stream Win7 MC box would be nice - I could ditch the stupid Comcast DVR and just use my 360 in it's place (and buy another extender for my other TV). Hopefully the card won't be terribly expensive.

 

[Nebor]

I'm considering buying an ATI tuner as soon as 7 is released to hold me over until the 4-tuner cards arrive...

 

[CZroe]

Originally posted by: Nebor
I'm considering buying an ATI tuner as soon as 7 is released to hold me over until the 4-tuner cards arrive...

Exactly my plan... I hope there are enough and that sudden demand doesn't inflate the price for inferior hardware.

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: A5
A 4 stream Win7 MC box would be nice - I could ditch the stupid Comcast DVR and just use my 360 in it's place (and buy another extender for my other TV). Hopefully the card won't be terribly expensive.

I'm curious what people think is expensive. $400 would be rather cheap for something like this, compared to the cost of the very best QAM tuners (HDHomeRun).

 

[Booty]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
The Centon tuners reportedly will be available sometime in early 2010.

You could buy the ATi tuners now, assuming there is or shortly will be a firmware update that negates the internal flag for the BIOS check. However, the ATi tuners are single stream devices. The Centon unit uses an M-Card (multi-stream) and can tune up to 4 channels througha single card. You'd need 4 of the ATi DCTs (and have to rent 4 cableCARDS from your provider) to get the same capability.

The setup process will simply be a matter of calling your cable company, requesting an M-Card cableCARD, and crossing your fingers that they know what they are doing.

So you'd get the Centon cards from your cable provider, but if I went the ATi route in the short term, would I also be getting that from my provider (Comcast) or...?

Would really like to start getting ESPN HD for Monday Night Football...

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: Booty
So you'd get the Centon cards from your cable provider, but if I went the ATi route in the short term, would I also be getting that from my provider (Comcast) or...?

Ceton and AMD/ATI (and Hauppauge now?) are just making the tuners - what makes the tuners special is that they have slots for the security cards (aka, CableCards) that decrypt the signal coming down the wire. Your cable provider gives you those cards and enables them.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Booty

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
The Centon tuners reportedly will be available sometime in early 2010.

You could buy the ATi tuners now, assuming there is or shortly will be a firmware update that negates the internal flag for the BIOS check. However, the ATi tuners are single stream devices. The Centon unit uses an M-Card (multi-stream) and can tune up to 4 channels througha single card. You'd need 4 of the ATi DCTs (and have to rent 4 cableCARDS from your provider) to get the same capability.

The setup process will simply be a matter of calling your cable company, requesting an M-Card cableCARD, and crossing your fingers that they know what they are doing.

So you'd get the Centon cards from your cable provider, but if I went the ATi route in the short term, would I also be getting that from my provider (Comcast) or...?

Would really like to start getting ESPN HD for Monday Night Football...

If you went the ATi route in the short term you could buy the tuner off of e-Bay or elsewhere, then request a cableCARD install from Comcast. You might want to act quickly though. There are a limited supply of tuners available and since the announcement the selling price on eBay has been creeping up. There are also places on the internet where you can buy a new one cheaper than what the used ones on eBay are selling for.

btw, here's some more info on the Centon tuners:

Text

I'll happily pay $400 - $500 for a 4 tuner card.

 

[CZroe]

OK, I've got a question. The source article doesn't elaborate on how this is now available/open to all "immediatelyl". Is there a Windows Update patch? A special driver? Something you have to manually apply? If I just buy a tuner and slap it in there, how will MCE respond if it formerly refused to work with it?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: CZroe
OK, I've got a question. The source article doesn't elaborate on how this is now available/open to all "immediatelyl". Is there a Windows Update patch? A special driver? Something you have to manually apply? If I just buy a tuner and slap it in there, how will MCE respond if it formerly refused to work with it?

You'll still need to use the BIOS hack for the ATi DCTs until ATi comes out with a firmware update for their tuners.

Here's a primer on how to get one to work:

http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/ATI%20DCT/

 

[CZroe]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: CZroe
OK, I've got a question. The source article doesn't elaborate on how this is now available/open to all "immediatelyl". Is there a Windows Update patch? A special driver? Something you have to manually apply? If I just buy a tuner and slap it in there, how will MCE respond if it formerly refused to work with it?

You'll still need to use the BIOS hack for the ATi DCTs until ATi comes out with a firmware update for their tuners.

Here's a primer on how to get one to work:

http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/ATI%20DCT/

Then I guess the source is incorrect and the requirement hasn't really been lifted just yet. Thanks.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: CZroe

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: CZroe
OK, I've got a question. The source article doesn't elaborate on how this is now available/open to all "immediatelyl". Is there a Windows Update patch? A special driver? Something you have to manually apply? If I just buy a tuner and slap it in there, how will MCE respond if it formerly refused to work with it?

You'll still need to use the BIOS hack for the ATi DCTs until ATi comes out with a firmware update for their tuners.

Here's a primer on how to get one to work:

http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/ATI%20DCT/

Then I guess the source is incorrect and the requirement hasn't really been lifted just yet. Thanks.

The requirement has been lifted by CableLabs. ATi just hasn't had time to come out with the firmware update for their tuners yet, assuming they will be issuing one some time in the future. Since they still manufacture the OCUR tuners, you'd think there would be one since it would help to increase sales. Seems like it would just be a matter of disabling the BIOS check flag in the firmware but I don't know all of the details involved in the process.

 

[tw1164]

Wasn't there talk of ATI leaving the Cardcard business?

 

[Booty]

Originally posted by: erwos
Ceton and AMD/ATI (and Hauppauge now?) are just making the tuners - what makes the tuners special is that they have slots for the security cards (aka, CableCards) that decrypt the signal coming down the wire. Your cable provider gives you those cards and enables them.

Thanks for clarifying - I've never seen the hardware, so wasn't putting together that there are 2 physical cards... the PCI(-E) card plus (what I'm assuming to be) a flash-type card. Makes much more sense now.

 

[CZroe]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: CZroe

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: CZroe
OK, I've got a question. The source article doesn't elaborate on how this is now available/open to all "immediatelyl". Is there a Windows Update patch? A special driver? Something you have to manually apply? If I just buy a tuner and slap it in there, how will MCE respond if it formerly refused to work with it?

You'll still need to use the BIOS hack for the ATi DCTs until ATi comes out with a firmware update for their tuners.

Here's a primer on how to get one to work:

http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/ATI%20DCT/

Then I guess the source is incorrect and the requirement hasn't really been lifted just yet. Thanks.

The requirement has been lifted by CableLabs. ATi just hasn't had time to come out with the firmware update for their tuners yet, assuming they will be issuing one some time in the future. Since they still manufacture the OCUR tuners, you'd think there would be one since it would help to increase sales. Seems like it would just be a matter of disabling the BIOS check flag in the firmware but I don't know all of the details involved in the process.

Unfortunately, I read the press release and it appears that this is for Windows 7 only. The requirement has not been lifted for otherwise CableCARD-compatible Vista systems.

Engadget's title, "Media Center CableCARDs freed from OEM requirement," doesn't help clarify it and they don't mention Windows 7 either (just like this thread).

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: CZroe
Unfortunately, I read the press release and it appears that this is for Windows 7 only. The requirement has not been lifted for otherwise CableCARD-compatible Vista systems.

Engadget's title, "Media Center CableCARDs freed from OEM requirement," doesn't help clarify it and they don't mention Windows 7 either (just like this thread).

Seems unclear at this point. Some articles specifically say Windows 7, others don't specify. Doesn't concern me too much though. After using the Windows 7 RC for a while now it's asta la vista, Vista.

 

[CZroe]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: CZroe
Unfortunately, I read the press release and it appears that this is for Windows 7 only. The requirement has not been lifted for otherwise CableCARD-compatible Vista systems.

Engadget's title, "Media Center CableCARDs freed from OEM requirement," doesn't help clarify it and they don't mention Windows 7 either (just like this thread).

Seems unclear at this point. Some articles specifically say Windows 7, others don't specify. Doesn't concern me too much though. After using the Windows 7 RC for a while now it's asta la vista, Vista.

The press release itself says Windows 7. AFAIK, ALL reports are derived from it and the associated event. Many leave out the "Windows 7" part, others don't.

End Customers Can Now Add Digital Cable Tuners With CableCARD to Their PCs

Microsoft and CableLabs announced that customers will now be able to add digital cable tuners with CableCARD to a Windows 7-based PC with Windows Media Center. A new tool will be provided by Microsoft that assesses the PC's ability to support the solution. This tool will analyze the customer's PC and enable digital cable support if the PC meets requirements, opening digital cable options to Windows Media Center customers across the country. Microsoft also announced that, with Windows 7, it has increased the number of TV tuners that can be connected to the PC from two to four per tuner type, thereby allowing customers to simultaneously record or watch as many as four digital cable TV channels.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: CZroe
The press release itself says Windows 7. AFAIK, ALL reports are derived from it and the associated event. Many leave out the "Windows 7" part, others don't.

End Customers Can Now Add Digital Cable Tuners With CableCARD to Their PCs

Microsoft and CableLabs announced that customers will now be able to add digital cable tuners with CableCARD to a Windows 7-based PC with Windows Media Center. A new tool will be provided by Microsoft that assesses the PC's ability to support the solution. This tool will analyze the customer's PC and enable digital cable support if the PC meets requirements, opening digital cable options to Windows Media Center customers across the country. Microsoft also announced that, with Windows 7, it has increased the number of TV tuners that can be connected to the PC from two to four per tuner type, thereby allowing customers to simultaneously record or watch as many as four digital cable TV channels.

I have no problem with that. Windows 7 is a better OS than Vista and will be better for cable tuners too.