Broadwell-E Review

[Arachnotronic]

3570k/290.

I expect a processor will last me 5 years these days so future proofing is important. My 3570 is already 4 years old now and it seems like we may just now be getting to a point where i7s are offering tangible gains to their i5 counterparts. So, moar cores?

But 1. Dat price increase; 2. Feels kinda weird 4 years later to be buying a processor only 1 generational change on.

Moar cores, I think for you. You'll be getting two generational changes (IVB -> HSW -> BDW), and obviously HT + more cores. It'll be a big upgrade for you, I believe.

Since you're running single GPU, might I recommend the reasonably priced 6800K?

 

[Boze]

Good review. I'm sitting here with my $999 5960x and the increase to the Broadwell E 6950x is just too big of a jump in price to justify switching out.

I suspect as the 6950x is out longer and produced more the overclocking might improve.

Right here with yah buddy. I guess my signature will turn out to be true after all.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Right here with yah buddy. I guess my signature will turn out to be true after all.

Love your posts Boze :thumbsup:

 

[ElFenix]

Moar cores, I think for you. You'll be getting two generational changes (IVB -> HSW -> BDW), and obviously HT + more cores. It'll be a big upgrade for you, I believe.

Since you're running single GPU, might I recommend the reasonably priced 6800K?

Hsw and bdw are the same gen tho


Wonder what microcenter will have these for in next week's flyer?

 

[Arachnotronic]

Hsw and bdw are the same gen tho

Technically true, although the CPU core has some improvements and the memory controller seems to be much more robust. But yep, you're right, same gen.

 

[24601]

I'd be using this for Premiere Pro and other multi-threaded work where I need all the bandwidth I can get. I've seen and read benchmark guides that show the higher end rendering machines using faster ram. The bottleneck for most GPU acceleration applications has been CPU and ram and I've been told (and seen) faster ram makes a significant difference. Premiere Pro is GPU accelerated and I want a system that can fully push, take advantage of and utilize all of the gpu horsepower it can.

16gb of ddr4-3200 is going for around $70...so x2...$140 for 32gb ddr4 3200...I thought that was really good...but your comments about throughput are confusing me. are you talking about raw bandwidth?

I'm not familiar with that particular workload so you will have to ask an expert on whether that workload is total memory latency dependent.

 

[zentan]

3570k/290.

I expect a processor will last me 5 years these days so future proofing is important. My 3570 is already 4 years old now and it seems like we may just now be getting to a point where i7s are offering tangible gains to their i5 counterparts. So, moar cores?

But 1. Dat price increase; 2. Feels kinda weird 4 years later to be buying a processor only 1 generational change on.

If you can, just hold for another year or so. You will have time to evaluate several options kabylake i7,Zen and may be even SKL-E.
i5 3570k overclocked with that Hawaii can still work around for that period. Otherwise selling your existing combo and getting i7 6700k/6800k or waiting for i7 7700k(?) is a pretty decent upgrade as well.

 

[2blzd]

I'm not familiar with that particular workload so you will have to ask an expert on whether that workload is total memory latency dependent.

im just talking about memory performance in general. The way you were talking made it seem like you cant get any more bandwidth past ddr4 2400...So then whats the point of any ram thats faster?

 

[LTC8K6]

http://ark.intel.com/products/94456...ssor-Extreme-Edition-25M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz

So is the Max Turbo 3.5 or 4.0? It has both on the ARK page.

 

[jihe]

3570k/290.

I expect a processor will last me 5 years these days so future proofing is important. My 3570 is already 4 years old now and it seems like we may just now be getting to a point where i7s are offering tangible gains to their i5 counterparts. So, moar cores?

But 1. Dat price increase; 2. Feels kinda weird 4 years later to be buying a processor only 1 generational change on.

Skylake i7 will easily last you 5 years. Heck your 3570k will last you a couple more years at least.

 

[wingman04]

Max Turbo is 4.0GHz on the i7-6950x.

 

[2blzd]

its 3.5.

no way the 10core turbos higher than the 8 and 6 cores

 

[Arachnotronic]

its 3.5.

no way the 10core turbos higher than the 8 and 6 cores

4GHz is the "Turbo Boost Max 3.0" speed.

 

[2blzd]

4GHz is the "Turbo Boost Max 3.0" speed.

So one core?

 

[Arachnotronic]

So one core?

Yeah. Totally boring, since anybody who buys one of these will overclock it to 4GHz+ on all 10 cores.

 

[sm625]

$1700 for 146 CBMarks. :| A 6700K is 25% faster.

 

[LTC8K6]

its 3.5.

no way the 10core turbos higher than the 8 and 6 cores

The 6850, 6900, and 6950 all have 4.0 listed as their turbo speed.

The 6800 shows 3.8

http://ark.intel.com/compare/94189,94188,94196,94456

 

[2blzd]

The 6850, 6900, and 6950 all have 4.0 listed as their turbo speed.

The 6800 shows 3.8

http://ark.intel.com/compare/94189,94188,94196,94456

thats the new turbo 3.0 single core speed.

The turbo 2.0 speeds are the ones should be looking/caring at.

 

[aigomorla]

i dont think i would feel comfortable ramping the voltage on that cpu to 1.4v and expecting it to last even if i was on water.

:T

sigh... the price point + overclocking headroom + voltage requirement is not making the 6950x taste good in my mouth.

infact now im pretty much angry at myself for waiting so dayam long and not getting a 5960X to hold me off until skylake-e which i feel is a far better investment.

thats the new turbo 3.0 single core speed.

The turbo 2.0 speeds are the ones should be looking/caring at.

That tubro is single core ramping as you state and well...
my thoughts are that pretty much 4ghz on 1 core on a 10-core processor is well, how do i say it nicely.. cow dung when a 4790K does that stock on all 4 cores without overclocking.

sigh... 1800 dollar cpu... really intel... i really have no comment for this...

 

[RussianSensation]

3570k/290.

I expect a processor will last me 5 years these days so future proofing is important. My 3570 is already 4 years old now and it seems like we may just now be getting to a point where i7s are offering tangible gains to their i5 counterparts. So, moar cores?

But 1. Dat price increase; 2. Feels kinda weird 4 years later to be buying a processor only 1 generational change on.

Solid upgrade but what happens if your i7 6800K is a dud overclocker?

Realistically it seems they max out at 4.3-4.4Ghz on an H110i per Sweclockers.

Kit Guru only managed 4.2Ghz on their 6950X.

But it gets worse. To run AVX workloads, BW-E's overclocking needs to be backed off a further 200-300mhz. Even Asus sees a 10% reduction in max overclocking on BW-E:

"ASUS has a baked-in Broadwell-E 10 core preset, under overclocking presets, which opts for the following configuration:
4.4GHz on the first two cores, 4.3GHz on the next three cores, 4.2GHz on the sixth core and 4.1GHz on the last four cores;
3.6GHz cache frequency
4GHz AVX frequency
2666MHz DDR4 frequency"

Since you said you want to keep your CPU for the next 5 years, sooner or later DDR4 4000 will become more affordable and a single GPU you may get in years 4-5 will be as fast as 980Ti SLI. Most benchmarks online use DDR4-2133-3000mhz memory on i7 6700K but that's not enough still.

Look at what would happen if you stayed at 1440p (nevermind 1080p) with an i7 6700K and faster memory and got a GPU as fast as 980Ti SLI:

That review is with i7 6700K @ 4.5Ghz, not even at 4.7-4.8Ghz.

CPU cost favours Skylake greatly

At Newegg, or MicroCenter, i7 6700K costs $90-100 less than an i7 6800K. Check.

CPU cooler cost favours Skylake greatly

i7 6700K doesn't need an expensive cooler. In fact to hit 4.5-4.7Ghz, even a $20 cooler will do (Newegg has Zalman CNPS14X for $20). Not a chance that will work with an i7 6800K @ 4.4Ghz. Add at least $30-50 more for a solid X99 cooler to keep i7 6800K overclocked to 4.4Ghz. Check.

You could also just reuse your existing cooler, but is it good enough for an i7 6800K? If not add at least $50-60 for a Phanteks dual tower or Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power or similar.

Faster DDR4 is becoming more affordable.

16GB DDR4 3466 can now be had for $104 and DDR4 3600 for $120. Prices will keep coming down as DDR4 speeds ramp up and competition heats up. DDR4 3400-3600 memory will let Skylake i7 6700K get much closer to its full potential, but since X99 is a quad-channel platform, chances are what you see now in reviews already removed the memory bandwidth bottleneck from i7 6800K.

Broadwell-E CPU OC would use more power than an i7 6700K OC and lose in 99% of games until more games are DX12. And if you add up the costs per CPU + mobo + much more expensive CPU cooler, that $ can be used to save up for a future Icelake or Icelake 2 (no codename yet?) CPU platform upgrade in 2018-2020 OR get a better monitor/larger SSD/faster videocard, etc.

I was actually excited as I thought soldered heatspreader and more mature 14nm node could finally give us 4.7-4.8Ghz i7 6800K but it seems BW-E overclocks no better than Haswell-E, actually worse when taking AVX overclocking hit into account.

Bonus time: A good budget mobo such as Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 3 or 5 can actually hit 4.85Ghz on an i7 6700K and DDR4 @ 3800mhz if you get a lucky i7 6700K chip.
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...yte-z170x-gaming-3-motherboard-review-13.html

Even the 3 version comes with 2x 32GB/sec Ultra M.2 connectors. Not bad for a $140 board. Hell, if you don't need all the extra bells and whistles, you can get an Asus Z170-E board for $86 USD! More $$$ saved on a Z170 board.

 

[RussianSensation]

That tubro is single core ramping as you state and well...
my thoughts are that pretty much 4ghz on 1 core on a 10-core processor is well, how do i say it nicely.. cow dung when a 4790K does that stock on all 4 cores without overclocking.

sigh... 1800 dollar cpu... really intel... i really have no comment for this...

:thumbsup:

For the price they are asking, this should have been able to get 4 cores to 4.4-4.5Ghz out of the box and shut down the remaining 6 to use up max TDP headroom. Either way you look at it, a 4.7Ghz i7 6700K would absolutely smash it in any task that requires 4 cores or less.

Also reviewers using DDR4 3000 and lower have severely gimped Skylake's true potential that even made me erroneously call Skylake a fail/dud at launch (now I am eating crow for it lol), but now I am realizing how wrong I was. :sneaky: Strap on DDR4 4000 to an i7 6700K OC and that thing flies. Flies so fast that a 4.7Ghz 6700K with DDR4 4000 is almost as fast as a stock i7 6950X for Handbrake.

Skylake requires fast DDR4 4000 to get the most out of it. Damn.

And some productivity apps such as Photoshop want more fast cores. Once again i7 6700K OC + DDR4 4000 becomes beast mode.

 

[Arachnotronic]

:thumbsup:

For the price they are asking, this should have been able to get 4 cores to 4.4-4.5Ghz out of the box and shut down the remaining 6 to use up max TDP headroom. Either way you look at it, a 4.7Ghz i7 6700K would absolutely smash it in any task that requires 4 cores or less.

Also reviewers using DDR4 3000 and lower have severely gimped Skylake's true potential that even made me erroneously call Skylake a fail/dud at launch (now I am eating crow for it lol), but now I am realizing how wrong I was. :sneaky: Strap on DDR4 4000 to an i7 6700K OC and that thing flies. Flies so fast that a 4.7Ghz 6700K with DDR4 4000 is almost as fast as a stock i7 6950X for Handbrake.

Skylake requires fast DDR4 4000 to get the most out of it. Damn.

And some productivity apps such as Photoshop want more fast cores. Once again i7 6700K OC + DDR4 4000 becomes beast mode.

Are these memory scaling results legit? Holy crap.

1. SKL's memory controller is just a beast.

2. SKL is severely "under-fed" by mere 2133MHz memory.

Maybe SKL is a much bigger jump from HSW than we give it credit for. Dang.

 

[Arachnotronic]

And if you add up the costs per CPU + mobo + much more expensive CPU cooler, that $ can be used to save up for a future Icelake or Icelake 2 (no codename yet?) CPU platform upgrade in 2018-2020 OR get a better monitor/larger SSD/faster videocard, etc.

Tiger Lake.

 

[RussianSensation]

Are these memory scaling results legit? Holy crap.

1. SKL's memory controller is just a beast.

2. SKL is severely "under-fed" by mere 2133MHz memory.

Maybe SKL is a much bigger jump from HSW than we give it credit for. Dang.

I am shocked too. With all the GPU launches, this review was completely missed by everyone. Not only is Skylake 6700K bottlenecked by 2133mhz, it's bottlenecked by even DDR4 3000mhz.

SKL memory controller is nuts. Now there are Z170 boards with DDR4 4333-4500 support. WOW!

While we were too busy paying attention to GPUs, G.Skill introduced Trident Z DDR4-4500 Memory in 8GB and DDR4-3466 128GB Kit.

Tiger Lake.

I thought Tigerlake to Skylake is what Cannonlake is to Kaby Lake? What I meant when I said Icelake 2 is:

Icelake 1 = first true new architecture in 2018
Icelake 2 = 2nd true new architecture in 2021

I don't really consider the half generations as "real" generations personally. Right now to me since Sandy, Intel has been on 3 real architectures/generations, instead of 6 as they claim for marketing.

2011 Sandy = 1st major after Nehalem
2012 Ivy = half gen
2013 Haswell = 2nd major
Broadwell = half gen
2015 Skylake = 3rd major
2016 Kaby Lake = probably mostly a CPU boost 3.0 increase
2017 Cannonlake = half gen (Process)
2018 Icelake = 4th major (Architecture)
2019 Tigerlake ? (Optimization)
2020 10nm (Process)
2021 Icelake 2 = 5th major

I mean technically Ivy and Broadwell do have IPC gains over Sandy and Haswell but they are minimal in comparison to full true architectural jumps.

If you look at that roadmap, in only 2 years from now, Broadwell will be 2 full generations/architectures behind but Skylake will only be 1 gen behind. I went from Sandy to Skylake or 2 full generations jump. I didn't like the idea of behind 2 generations behind again already in 2018 while with Skylake, I can hold on to it until 2021 to get a similar IPC jump as I had from Sandy to Skylake. At least that was my thinking. That's why I am also not thrilled about the idea of 2017 SKL-E (2 years old architecture) and on top of it a new Socket P that may require a new CPU cooler. Right now the added benefit of Z170 LGA1151 is also an IVB/Sandy or even Nehalem/Lynnfield CPU cooler can be reused. What about Socket P/3647-pins? I realize that those looking for high-end workstation platform don't care but all these little costs add up.

It also explains why Intel is going 6-DIMMs on Socket P because SLK-E will be severely memory bandwidth starved.

 

[exar333]

I am shocked too. With all the GPU launches, this review was completely missed by everyone. Not only is Skylake 6700K bottlenecked by 2133mhz, it's bottlenecked by even DDR4 3000mhz.



I thought Tigerlake to Skylake is what Cannonlake is to Kaby Lake? What I meant when I said Icelake 2 is:

Icelake 1 = first true new architecture in 2018
Icelake 2 = 2nd true new architecture in 2021

I don't really consider the half generations as "real" generations personally. Right now to me since Sandy, Intel has been on 3 real architectures/generations, instead of 6 as they claim for marketing.

2011 Sandy = 1st major after Nehalem
2012 Ivy = half gen
2013 Haswell = 2nd major
Broadwell = half gen
2015 Skylake = 3rd major
2016 Kaby Lake = probably mostly a CPU boost 3.0 increase
2017 Cannonlake = half gen (Process)
2018 Icelake = 4th major (Architecture)
2019 Tigerlake ? (Optimization)
2020 10nm (Process)
2021 Icelake 2 = 5th major

I mean technically Ivy and Broadwell do have IPC gains over Sandy and Haswell but they are minimal in comparison to full true architectural jumps.

If you look at that roadmap, in only 2 years from now, Broadwell will be 2 full generations/architectures behind but Skylake will only be 1 gen behind. I went from Sandy to Skylake or 2 generations jump. I didn't like the idea of behind 2 generations behind again already in 2018 while with Skylake, I can hold on to it until 2021 to get a similar IPC jump as I had from Sandy to Skylake. At least that was my thinking.

Pretty cool.

It has been since the early-ish days of DDR2 since we have seen much in the way of actual, tangible performance differences like this from memory speed. This is why I also really am happy with my Skylake CPU and I think SL-X next year will be the best HEDT option since SB-E.