budget performance

[oopers]

Hi All,

I'm going back to school in about 2 weeks (yeah I know it sucks, pretty early) because I have to work on my room in the house I live in. I'm trying to get an Athlon 64 rig together. I don't have a ton of cash because it (cash and computer) needs to last me a while. I was looking at 939 originally but I realize it is out of reach because of my cash situation; unless prices drop soon. I can wait a little longer, but I am unsure as to when the prices are coming down. Looking at the 3400+ socket 754 with the 1mb has me thinking now. The biggest part of this is that I am probably going to be keeping everything but motherboard cpu fan and memory. I'm moving from a P3 800 coppermine ahhahahaahha. I have an inwin q500 (unsure of the wattage - not sure if it's enough). I am keeping my drives although slow 7200 rpms and my optical drives are probably older than some of the posters in the forum. But I don't do much burning and if I do I use my 17" powerbook which I bought for portability last year at school. So without flaming me for my powerbook, what do people think for the mobo cpu mem combo?

TIA,
John

 

[oopers]

I forgot to mention the purpose of the PC... Nothing to heavy duty except for the occasional gaming. I would really like to play Doom3; I have a 5200 ultra (which isn't the best but it will run it, I understand)

 

[mAsTAd]

Whats ur budget set at?

 

[Frew]

Whats the budget?

 

[oopers]

I'd like to stay under 700 because I probably won't be going back to school with much more than 900 as it stands...

 

[trexpesto]

700 for CPU, HSF, Mobo and RAM? Leaving you 900? That is dedication.
If you don't go socket 939, which is the better long term investment, look at the Socket 754 A64 3000+ for $171 Link
I saw it in this thread There are alot of people going this way right now so you have company.
512K L2 cache only but coming from that old rig, should bowl you over - plenty for occasional gaming.
Yeah and 1 gig C2.5 either corsair or mushkin memory. I like mushkin. $160
Mobo I have no idea. You can find deals on hard drives pretty easy, if yours are 2MB cache might be worth an upgrade there, although with 1g RAM you at least won't be hittting them toooo often for virtual memory. If you are leaving in 2 weeks to a place where you only have a PO Box, them rebates will be a hassle.


To me, my OC mobile Barton (512K L2) still gives the best price-perf ratio. 77 for the chip 91 for the mobo or the DFI Infinity, 20 for slk900A HS from svc, maybe 6 for a nice fan, and 6 for AS5. Add the 160 for PC3200 C2.5 and total is around 380 shipped, not including tax. Those 64 bit apps will be a ways off, and 32 will be around for a while yet. Then you can afford a little HD or food/beer upgrade. Seagates are coming with 5 year warranty now.

EDIT: or more importantly a PSU upgrade. Enermax, Antec TruePower, or one other I forget. Look for high amperage on the 12V rail. True430 is 65 + shipping at newegg.:thumbsup:

 

[jpeyton]

Bling bling.

Mobile Barton, AN35N, 2x256MB PC3200, etc.

Save your money.

 

[oopers]

The reason I was thinking a64 is that, look at my current system and how long it took me to get money to upgrade... I have a P3 800 right now, I don't think I will have the cash to upgrade again any time soon. I know you said a64 is a ways away but I'm a ways away from upgrade and the market moves fast

 

[oopers]

Hey jpeyton I was wondering, what kind of performance is possible with air on the mobiel barton? I understand that 64 is a ways away but I haven't really heard anything one way or another about that motherboard/ the total overclockability. I want to play doom3 with respectable graphics/frames

 

[trexpesto]

2.4 is is regularly achieved, which is equiv to 3400+ speeds, plenty fast enuf
For just about anything, except perhaps competing against an OC'ed 3400+ in the hands of your evil twin

 

[trexpesto]

And don't go for 2x256 because in the quality modules 1 512 is cheaper and leaves a slot for the next one. Unless you never ever ever can get any more memory, then maybe because of the slight increase in speed by running 2 modules in dual channel. I would get a gig from the start - that really helped my performance because I never swap to the virtual memory any more.

 

[oopers]

Is this with an alpha or something larger?

 

[oopers]

Do you have to buy the memory in a bundle in order to run it in dual channel or can you buy 2 of the same modules?

 

[Tostada]

I'm pretty much with trexpesto. For what you want, I would probably go with the A64 3000+ ($171), 2 x 512MB Corsair (or Mushkin if you don't OC at all) CL 2.5. For the mobo, it depends. If you don't care about Firewire, I'd get the $99 Soltek Nforce3 250Gb board. If you want Firewire, there's really no Athlon 64 motherboard I could recommend right now except the $146 ASUS Nforce3 250Gb one.

If gaming is your thing, though, you'd be much better off with a $285 GeForce 6800, an $86 35W Mobile Barton 2400, a $56 Shuttle Nforce2, and $82 for 512MB Corsair CL 2.5.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-122-193
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-439
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-150-045
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-026

That's only $510 right there.

JPeyton's guide is pretty accurate, although for $77 you'd be better off with the newer 35W Mobile XP 2200 than 45W Mobile XP 2400... I also think WD drives (except the Raptor 74) are inferior and get many more RMA's compared to the competition from Seagate/Hitachi/Samsung... and I think there are much better monitor choices, but for the purposes of this thread, I agree with him

Given what you do with your computer (not that we have a very clear picture of that), I definitely think that the CPU should be less of a priority to you. You would probably be better off going with a Barton and upgrading your video card. You would probably also notice a pretty big improvement upgrading your hard drive, depending on how out of date that is. If you're using a 20GB/platter drive, you should definitely spend the $100 to get a 160GB 80GB/platter drive, or at least spend $70 for a single-platter 80GB drive if you don't need the space. Here's a 160GB drive for $98 that's faster than a Raptor 36 and has a 3-year warranty:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-145-061

And if you're using such an old system, I'm pretty scared to ask what monitor you have... I'll bet if you did tell me, I'd say your first priority should be spending $200+ on a nice 19" flat CRT. This is my recommendation for the cheapest really nice CRT:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=24-116-282

So, I'd probably spend $237 on that, $98 on a hard drive, get the $86 35W Barton, $56 Shuttle board, $82 512MB Corsair RAM, and $14 for the FalconRock HSF:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=35-150-023

That's $573 and you get to sit behind a nice monitor, and you get another $100 to live on for awhile. I'd still make the video card the next priority if you're a gamer.

I'm just throwing things out there. I think there are things you'd be much happier spending your money on than a $171 CPU, though.

 

[trexpesto]

Whoa, edited prev post BTW.
Could be larger. Check out the mobile barton oc results thread in CPU/PROC + OC forum.
Most of the time you can get good memory (mushkin) to run dual channel even if not a kit. Occasionally not. The mobo may have some juju influence here, not sure.
Somebody probably knows the factors that would influence whether or not it could, but since there are variations in silicon quality of sticks even in the same batch, it might not help to know what those factors are. That is why the companies only guarantee DC when they have tested those two sticks running together.

 

[magratton]

Mfg will tell you that you need the bundle, but I don't think so, just two of the same chip (or even just the same type of chip e.g., 2x 256 PC3200 2.5v ram).

I agree with the mobile route though. If you are on a budget and want performance then a Mobile Athlon XP 2400 and up (35 or 45watt) should easily overclock to 240Mhz (200x12) at desktop voltages (1.65-1.7v) on a good motherboard (DFI infinity or Abit NF7-S V2). The PSU is important but really you can get away with a slighly lower PSU than the True 430. Using the above setup I oc'd to the above stated speeds with an Antec SL350 350Watt PSU and all is still working fine several months later.

Edit: (I would have pm'd you on this but you are not enabled for that in your profile) BTW: if you figure 2x256 memory is the way you want to go, I have some really good memory and a mobile processor for sale (along with a great heatsink and fan).

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: oopers
Do you have to buy the memory in a bundle in order to run it in dual channel or can you buy 2 of the same modules?

As trexpesto is saying, you're better off getting a single 512MB stick, because there is almost no benefit to dual-channel (unless you're using integrated graphics, in which case the NF2 IGP gets flaky without dual-channel).

If you get a 35W Barton, they always overclock to at least 3200+ speed easily with 1.65V. The $14 FalconRock HSF is plenty. If you want to get all hardcore about it, most people really like the $27.99 Thermaltake Silent Boost.

 

[magratton]

Originally posted by: Tostada

Originally posted by: oopers
Do you have to buy the memory in a bundle in order to run it in dual channel or can you buy 2 of the same modules?

As trexpesto is saying, you're better off getting a single 512MB stick, because there is almost no benefit to dual-channel (unless you're using integrated graphics, in which case the NF2 IGP gets flaky without dual-channel).

If you get a 35W Barton, they always overclock to at least 3200+ speed easily with 1.65V. The $14 FalconRock HSF is plenty. If you want to get all hardcore about it, most people really like the $27.99 Thermaltake Silent Boost.

For cost sakes, yes the Falconrock HSF is a great buy. Hardcore I would have said Thermalright instead of Thermaltake but.....

 

[trexpesto]

Originally posted by: Tostada
.. 2 x 512MB Corsair (or Mushkin if you don't OC at all) CL 2.5.

You had a problem with mushkin?

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: trexpesto

Originally posted by: Tostada
.. 2 x 512MB Corsair (or Mushkin if you don't OC at all) CL 2.5.

You had a problem with mushkin?

No, I've never had a problem with their cheap PC3200. If you're going to overclock, though, I think it's worth $5 to get Corsair, because even their cheap stuff speems to push past PC3200 speed pretty easily, or run at tighter timings. Obviously with an A64 this is a little more important, and not so much with an unlocked mobile Barton.

It's just that if I'm going to overclock the CPU, I'll generally try to keep the FSB high and see how far I can push the memory. If you're keeping the RAM in spec at PC3200, I suppose you might as well save the $5 and get Mushkin.

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: magratton
For cost sakes, yes the Falconrock HSF is a great buy. Hardcore I would have said Thermalright instead of Thermaltake but.....

OK, I suppose that was a misuse of the word "hardcore." Thermalright is more hardcore.

 

[trexpesto]

For cost sakes, yes the Falconrock HSF is a great buy. Hardcore I would have said Thermalright instead of Thermaltake but.....

yeah check out the slk900A thermalright at svc.com for $20 + shipping and get a fan. I think they reccommend the tornado with rheostat, but you can see what I got. Don't forget your arctic silver 5...
Heck this guy did it, but it aint as cheap as the falcon rock... I live in NV with no AC so I had to go hardcore. If you live in CA I pity you ( NOT! ) because you will have to pay tax.

 

[trexpesto]

I bet the two (EDIT: mushkin and corsair) are about equal. How can we find out?
Just got 1 module 512 of basic mushkin PC3200, so I'll see one example. I think that the prices are about equal now.

 

[oopers]

Originally posted by: trexpesto
2.4 is is regularly achieved, which is equiv to 3400+ speeds, plenty fast enuf
For just about anything, except perhaps competing against an OC'ed 3400+ in the hands of your evil twin

I understand cooling the cpu allows you to keep it from frying, but does it wear on the cpu over time? I want to be able to play doom3 with decent frames at semi decent resolutions and not hae to worry about not having the cpu in a few months

 

[oopers]

Originally posted by: Tostada
I'm pretty much with trexpesto. For what you want, I would probably go with the A64 3000+ ($171), 2 x 512MB Corsair (or Mushkin if you don't OC at all) CL 2.5. For the mobo, it depends. If you don't care about Firewire, I'd get the $99 Soltek Nforce3 250Gb board. If you want Firewire, there's really no Athlon 64 motherboard I could recommend right now except the $146 ASUS Nforce3 250Gb one.

If gaming is your thing, though, you'd be much better off with a $285 GeForce 6800, an $86 35W Mobile Barton 2400, a $56 Shuttle Nforce2, and $82 for 512MB Corsair CL 2.5.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-122-193
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-439
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-150-045
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-026

That's only $510 right there.

JPeyton's guide is pretty accurate, although for $77 you'd be better off with the newer 35W Mobile XP 2200 than 45W Mobile XP 2400... I also think WD drives (except the Raptor 74) are inferior and get many more RMA's compared to the competition from Seagate/Hitachi/Samsung... and I think there are much better monitor choices, but for the purposes of this thread, I agree with him

Given what you do with your computer (not that we have a very clear picture of that), I definitely think that the CPU should be less of a priority to you. You would probably be better off going with a Barton and upgrading your video card. You would probably also notice a pretty big improvement upgrading your hard drive, depending on how out of date that is. If you're using a 20GB/platter drive, you should definitely spend the $100 to get a 160GB 80GB/platter drive, or at least spend $70 for a single-platter 80GB drive if you don't need the space. Here's a 160GB drive for $98 that's faster than a Raptor 36 and has a 3-year warranty:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-145-061

And if you're using such an old system, I'm pretty scared to ask what monitor you have... I'll bet if you did tell me, I'd say your first priority should be spending $200+ on a nice 19" flat CRT. This is my recommendation for the cheapest really nice CRT:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=24-116-282

So, I'd probably spend $237 on that, $98 on a hard drive, get the $86 35W Barton, $56 Shuttle board, $82 512MB Corsair RAM, and $14 for the FalconRock HSF:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=35-150-023

That's $573 and you get to sit behind a nice monitor, and you get another $100 to live on for awhile. I'd still make the video card the next priority if you're a gamer.

I'm just throwing things out there. I think there are things you'd be much happier spending your money on than a $171 CPU, though.

Well in my defense I've had a 19" - although not top of the line for long time now. Color is off a bit but its not noticible until you put it against a really nice monitor. Mag 810FD... Anyway you think the 6800 can romp up all over the 5200 ultra enough to make me buy it outright? I'm still weiging out options, and hoping for pricebreaks that will never happen...