Budget Server Options (Cheap Cores on a Budget through Ebay)

[XavierMace]

There are better places to get used servers than eBay. The Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist, and look for local pickup options. You'll save yourself a ton on tax and shipping, plus you'll get to inspect the server before you buy it.

I'm a big fan of PowerEdge T320's and T420's. Lots of expansion room in those suckers, plus they are tower cases that normally do not have insanely loud fans.

That depends greatly on where you're located and if you have something specific you're looking for. The only stuff on Craigslist out here is either Westmere-EP (or older) or laughably overpriced.

dunno about 2011 socket. for 1150 i just bought an e3 1225 v3 for ~90 shipped to replace a g3258. yeah, no overclocking, but 4 cores and 8 threads > 2 cores and 2 threads. and half the price of an i7.

Yeah 1S processors are a different story. For 2S, Ivy's the sweet spot. The E3's don't have enough threads for what the OP is doing.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

dunno about 2011 socket. for 1150 i just bought an e3 1225 v3 for ~90 shipped to replace a g3258. yeah, no overclocking, but 4 cores and 8 threads > 2 cores and 2 threads. and half the price of an i7.

That's only a four-thread.

https://ark.intel.com/products/75461/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1225-v3-8M-Cache-3_20-GHz

Only 1230 and up have hyperthreading. Not a bad price, though.

 

[ElFenix]

That's only a four-thread.

https://ark.intel.com/products/75461/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1225-v3-8M-Cache-3_20-GHz

Only 1230 and up have hyperthreading. Not a bad price, though.

furk

 

[dave_the_nerd]

furk

Aww, it's not bad - like I said, good price. And it's better than the Pentium in my server.

 

[tential]

dunno about 2011 socket. for 1150 i just bought an e3 1225 v3 for ~90 shipped to replace a g3258. yeah, no overclocking, but 4 cores and 8 threads > 2 cores and 2 threads. and half the price of an i7.

That's a very tempting offer. A simple drop in upgrade. I just don't think I could get enough out of it. I will definitely keep that in mind though if I'm not satisfied with what I see. I hadn't realized you could drop in some Xeon processors into my mobo.

Looks like I need to be comparing 2S Ivybridge vs Threadripper.

I think the main thing is power consumption, and I imagine threadripper would destroy a 2S Ivybridge solution in power consumption.

Ebay doesn't make this helpful, is there no way to use wildcards when searching on ebay? Also, LinusTechTips just posted a video where they bought a 28 corechip off ebay lol.
The engineering samples worked as well.

 

[Markfw]

Would you be interested in a Haswell 1p 28 thread E5-2683v3 power consumption ? a 2P would be only slightly less than twice that, and most likely close in performance to a TR

Edit: a TR with a 1080TI idle is 88 watts, and with all cores going 267 or 179 watts extra (right on track)

If the Intel document of TDP on that chip is correct, 2 of them would be 240 watts. or 60 more than TR

I could put my kill-a-watt on a 2683 system if that was interesting.

 

[24601]

Make sure you are taking into account that Haswell-E/-EP are DDR4 processors.

Haswell consumer is DDR3

This is the sweet spot for budget gaming usage.

Ivy Bridge-E and -EP is DDR3.

This is the sweet spot for budget server usage.

If you are buying Haswell-E/-EP make sure you are getting ram included in that package.

Anything with DDR4 under i5-8400 is a complete waste of money compared to buying Haswell "mainstream" systems off ebay.

For server use you will have to do some thorough ebay searching and categorizing your needs in a more detailed fashion.

There's a zero percent chance that your listed use case of "VM Network Gaming" would be better done on Threadripper as Threadripper is among the worst processors for gaming possible.

 

[tential]

Would you be interested in a Haswell 1p 28 thread E5-2683v3 power consumption ? a 2P would be only slightly less than twice that, and most likely close in performance to a TR

Edit: a TR with a 1080TI idle is 88 watts, and with all cores going 267 or 179 watts extra (right on track)

If the Intel document of TDP on that chip is correct, 2 of them would be 240 watts. or 60 more than TR

I could put my kill-a-watt on a 2683 system if that was interesting.

Yes, that would be interesting!

Make sure you are taking into account that Haswell-E/-EP are DDR4 processors.

Haswell consumer is DDR3

This is the sweet spot for budget gaming usage.

Ivy Bridge-E and -EP is DDR3.

This is the sweet spot for budget server usage.

If you are buying Haswell-E/-EP make sure you are getting ram included in that package.

For server use you will have to do some thorough ebay searching and categorizing your needs in a more detailed fashion.

There's a zero percent chance that your listed use case of "VM Network Gaming" would be better done on Threadripper as Threadripper is among the worst processors for gaming possible.

What benchmarks are you looking at that makes you say Threadripper is bad for gaming?
In my scenario, I'd be comparing to lower clocked IvyBridge/Haswell options right?
If you can help my tame my expectations of Threadripper, maybe I'll be better served. If I'm looking more at Ivybridge performance, then that's much more accessible to me from Ebay, I can find those builds for much cheaper. I'd take an extra 100W of CPU power expenditure, if I'm getting Ivybridge Xeon/ 2p MOBO/DDR3 Ram (I don't even care about the chassis/other parts), for under $700. If that's also comparable to Threadripper, that's probably the route I'll choose. This is only my second server anyway. I'll still be rebuilding the first one down the line if I feel I need a more powerful CPU later, I'll upgrade my first server's CPU/Mobo/RAM.

Just thinking about your comments makes me more accepting of getting an Ivybridge Xeon processor for 1080/60fps gaming. I fired up South Park on the Living Room TV and was very happy with playing it, but very sad that it was taking up my main PC, rather than being on my server where it belongs.

Everything is coming together, but definitely feels like it won't be complete without a main server PC. Really, as I go down this path, everyone should have a server PC.... you can start off so small and build up so much as you learn more and your needs grow.

 

[24601]

Yes, that would be interesting!


What benchmarks are you looking at that makes you say Threadripper is bad for gaming?
In my scenario, I'd be comparing to lower clocked IvyBridge/Haswell options right?
If you can help my tame my expectations of Threadripper, maybe I'll be better served. If I'm looking more at Ivybridge performance, then that's much more accessible to me from Ebay, I can find those builds for much cheaper. I'd take an extra 100W of CPU power expenditure, if I'm getting Ivybridge Xeon/ 2p MOBO/DDR3 Ram (I don't even care about the chassis/other parts), for under $700. If that's also comparable to Threadripper, that's probably the route I'll choose. This is only my second server anyway. I'll still be rebuilding the first one down the line if I feel I need a more powerful CPU later, I'll upgrade my first server's CPU/Mobo/RAM.

Just thinking about your comments makes me more accepting of getting an Ivybridge Xeon processor for 1080/60fps gaming. I fired up South Park on the Living Room TV and was very happy with playing it, but very sad that it was taking up my main PC, rather than being on my server where it belongs.

Everything is coming together, but definitely feels like it won't be complete without a main server PC. Really, as I go down this path, everyone should have a server PC.... you can start off so small and build up so much as you learn more and your needs grow.

Most of the time Ryzen is around stock 2500k performance in games or a little higher, and Threadripper is just downright slower than Ryzen in games, sometimes disastrously so due to the gigantic latency that is present in how Threadripper is laid out (added to Ryzen's already large latency).

Add to that fact that with Ivy Bridge-E/-EP you can get around the NUMA problem by simply assigning VM1 and VM2 to the cores on each of the respective CPUs (aka all VM1 virtual cores being mapped to CPU0, all VM2 virtual cores being mapped to CPU1), as well as making sure to put 1 GPU in the dedicated lanes for each CPU.

With Threadripper, you don't get that luxury of bypassing NUMA for your use-case.

 

[ZGR]

Most of the time Ryzen is around stock 2500k performance in games or a little higher, and Threadripper is just downright slower than Ryzen in games, sometimes disastrously so due to the gigantic latency that is present in how Threadripper is laid out (added to Ryzen's already large latency).

Add to that fact that with Ivy Bridge-E/-EP you can get around the NUMA problem by simply assigning VM1 and VM2 to the cores on each of the respective CPUs (aka all VM1 virtual cores being mapped to CPU0, all VM2 virtual cores being mapped to CPU1), as well as making sure to put 1 GPU in the dedicated lanes for each CPU.

With Threadripper, you don't get that luxury of bypassing NUMA for your use-case.

That is absolutely not true.

 

[Genx87]

I want to play games on the server like with steam streaming. I want all my heavy computing done on my server if possible. I only want thin client boxes anywhere else.
Once I figure out my wiring situation for my place, I want to try the Steam Link. I think that's my best bet since I just need 1080p streaming for the living room.

I was thinking of trying this as well. Just built out my rack a couple months ago with a pair of R620s, R510 as the SAN, and an HP DL180G6 as the backup target. But then thought, what if I built out a cluster with higher performing blades with GPUs and tried to run a thin client? I want to see if you get this working.

 

[Markfw]

Most of the time Ryzen is around stock 2500k performance in games or a little higher, and Threadripper is just downright slower than Ryzen in games, sometimes disastrously so due to the gigantic latency that is present in how Threadripper is laid out (added to Ryzen's already large latency).

Add to that fact that with Ivy Bridge-E/-EP you can get around the NUMA problem by simply assigning VM1 and VM2 to the cores on each of the respective CPUs (aka all VM1 virtual cores being mapped to CPU0, all VM2 virtual cores being mapped to CPU1), as well as making sure to put 1 GPU in the dedicated lanes for each CPU.

With Threadripper, you don't get that luxury of bypassing NUMA for your use-case.

WRONG. First, Ryzen closer to Ivybridge or Haswell in gaming.only a few points down from current generation Intel.

As to Numa, there is s "gaming mode" selectable in Ryzen master for threadripper that takes care of this problem.

You are so wrong, its trolling.

 

[24601]

As you can see tential, nothing is more unpopular than the truth

 

[tential]

Can we address each point people make separately? When people are saying wrong, it's confusing. Is EVERYTHING wrong? Or certain parts?

This is just educational guys, just post some links so we can all see and judge ourselves. It'll be much easier if we're looking at the same thing.

I used anandtech's review of threadripper and I can't find a largescale roundup of the CPU.

It looks to be behind Haswell, but by how much I'm not sure.
Could be behind back Ivybridge or Sandybridge depending on how you judge it.

 

[tential]

I was thinking of trying this as well. Just built out my rack a couple months ago with a pair of R620s, R510 as the SAN, and an HP DL180G6 as the backup target. But then thought, what if I built out a cluster with higher performing blades with GPUs and tried to run a thin client? I want to see if you get this working.

I mean, it is essentially working. I'm just using my gaming PC instead of a VM on my server.
I'm just trying to upgrade my server to move it off of my gaming PC. Of course, the GPU costs are another thing too..... But ya, I mean, Steam In Home Streaming works for streaming games/PC screen fine. I would say 50% of the gaming done on this PC has been done in that manner. It just doesn't make sense to use a PC for it. Steam In Home Streaming is essentially a server task, it takes up the whole primary PC. Steam should just add some headless server support and call it a day, because while there is sdefinitely a benefit of using it, it's so frustrating to walk up to my main PC and have it unusuable.

You're already way ahead of me, you just need to add a GPU in and test it out on A VM.

If I could, I'd simply just move my 4770k to my server and use VT-d and run games that way. Since the 4770k doesn't support that capability, I might as well just buy a real server chip, because if I make 1 VM for streaming games.... I'll definitely make 2... and then 3. Pretty much each time I upgrade my GPU, I'm just going to pop it into my server, up to 3 GPUs most likely (maybe 4, but I doubt it since I'll always have my main gaming rig and 4 gamers is all I care to setup for at most).

Then 3 Vizio P series tvs together in a "triple monitor" type setup.

The way I'm setup, I actually could just hardwire(Use HDMI instead of a client box as a receiver), and avoid using a clientbox with steam inhome streaming, but that's more of a test to make sure that works, since that's the capability I'm aiming for. I know it does, but I want that setup ready to go.
There is also of course the capability of remote gaming too. Especially with better wireless service coming, you could even tether and play globally. I know people already are doing this and there are services offering it, so it's just your own personal one.

I'd definitely try and step down it however you choose. PCs are fun because of flexibility. I went back to PC gaming once the Xbox One wasn't 1080p/60 fps. Said I'd just build a PC equivalent that could do the same thing, and now I'm looking to put that capability into a server.

 

[Markfw]

As you can see tential, nothing is more unpopular than the truth

Regarding gaming mode: (from here: https://www.anandtech.com/show/1172...-game-mode-halving-cores-for-more-performance)

So, you are wrong on numa, and per the benchmarks its right behind the 7740x in both of those tests, its closest Intel competitor of the current generation.

 

[Markfw]

Yes, that would be interesting!


What benchmarks are you looking at that makes you say Threadripper is bad for gaming?
In my scenario, I'd be comparing to lower clocked IvyBridge/Haswell options right?
If you can help my tame my expectations of Threadripper, maybe I'll be better served. If I'm looking more at Ivybridge performance, then that's much more accessible to me from Ebay, I can find those builds for much cheaper. I'd take an extra 100W of CPU power expenditure, if I'm getting Ivybridge Xeon/ 2p MOBO/DDR3 Ram (I don't even care about the chassis/other parts), for under $700. If that's also comparable to Threadripper, that's probably the route I'll choose. This is only my second server anyway. I'll still be rebuilding the first one down the line if I feel I need a more powerful CPU later, I'll upgrade my first server's CPU/Mobo/RAM.

Just thinking about your comments makes me more accepting of getting an Ivybridge Xeon processor for 1080/60fps gaming. I fired up South Park on the Living Room TV and was very happy with playing it, but very sad that it was taking up my main PC, rather than being on my server where it belongs.

Everything is coming together, but definitely feels like it won't be complete without a main server PC. Really, as I go down this path, everyone should have a server PC.... you can start off so small and build up so much as you learn more and your needs grow.

E5-2683v3@2.5 ghz (turbo)
So at idle (with a crap VGA card, not an idle 1080TI) it uses 73 watts, only 15 less than TR. At full load it uses 185 watts, or 112 for the CPU, or 224 for 2 of them. Considering a Ryzen 1800X is almost on par with the 2683, then with threadripper, you get twice the computing power for 44 watts less.(25% less power and twice the performance.)

This is a very crude comparison, but I own both boxes, measuring the power with the same device and computing the ability to perform myself, I think its a justified conclusion.

 

[Markfw]

Oh, and one thing to add (on topic, since we got derailed). One Threadripper is a little over $800

For some reason, all of the socket 2011-3 E5's that I found (including the E5-2683v3) were going from $800 to $1000 !!!!

I think you would need to look some more to find one that works on a motherboard you can afford. The 2011 socket mobos are like $300-400

Anyway, based on this threadripper is looking better and better compared to ebay Xeons

 

[tential]

Oh, and one thing to add (on topic, since we got derailed). One Threadripper is a little over $800

For some reason, all of the socket 2011-3 E5's that I found (including the E5-2683v3) were going from $800 to $1000 !!!!

I think you would need to look some more to find one that works on a motherboard you can afford. The 2011 socket mobos are like $300-400

Anyway, based on this threadripper is looking better and better compared to ebay Xeons

Threadripper was supposed to be the server king processor. I mean, I had dubbed Ryzen the home server king long before it was out. Cores per dollar... it's not hard math to do.

But in this situation, I just want to make sure that I understand what I'm getting over the Ivybridge Xeons.

I don't think I can go wrong with either setup, I just want to know what I'm getting. On the 2011 setup mobo side:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HUA...b033-4d10-8bb7-135d17c393b0&priceBeautifyAB=2

Which is why it's nice we all come together since maybe in the future one of us will pick up a mobo off aliexpress for a more "Budget" 2011 setup.

What I REALLY like about the Threadripper is even if I'm paying more for the mobo, the M2 SATA slots.
When you're space constrained, that's nice to have more of those to expand your storage. Features like that.

I'm not really sure how this NUMA thing factors in regarding game mode. I'm not sure how Game mode would even matter for this application? I'm not expecting to use the whole processor at any time for gaming, but to square off cores of the processor to work with a VM for gaming.

 

[Burpo]

Just did a quick check on ebay & a E5-2695 V3 with a Gigabyte GA-X99-GAMING 5P Intel LGA2011-3 board can be had for $500 for both.. of course still needs ram & cooling..

 

[Markfw]

Threadripper was supposed to be the server king processor. I mean, I had dubbed Ryzen the home server king long before it was out. Cores per dollar... it's not hard math to do.

But in this situation, I just want to make sure that I understand what I'm getting over the Ivybridge Xeons.

I don't think I can go wrong with either setup, I just want to know what I'm getting. On the 2011 setup mobo side:


Which is why it's nice we all come together since maybe in the future one of us will pick up a mobo off aliexpress for a more "Budget" 2011 setup.

What I REALLY like about the Threadripper is even if I'm paying more for the mobo, the M2 SATA slots.
When you're space constrained, that's nice to have more of those to expand your storage. Features like that.

I'm not really sure how this NUMA thing factors in regarding game mode. I'm not sure how Game mode would even matter for this application? I'm not expecting to use the whole processor at any time for gaming, but to square off cores of the processor to work with a VM for gaming.

I think we got detailed on the gaming thing, so lets ignore that/him.

I forgot about the 2695V3 (I actually am typing on one) But at least that takes us back to $$$ and now that puts in in light as a value. It might be half as fast as a TR, but at that price, it is a bargain (hence why I have 6 of them, sort of, 4 2683v3s, one 2695v3 and one 2658 12 core.),

Edit: in case you go for the 2695, I like the ASRock X99 board. I got several all from newegg. Right now they have one (the extreme 4) open box for $170.

The big difference is budget it sounds like. We have a good E5 alternative, and then TR for twice the price and performance.

 

[tential]

Just did a quick check on ebay & a E5-2695 V3 with a Gigabyte GA-X99-GAMING 5P Intel LGA2011-3 board can be had for $500 for both.. of course still needs ram & cooling..

That sounds like a monster steal. How are you finding that? I'm looking and I'm seeing it at full high $1k+ prices except for a couple from japan/china for $350-500 for just the processor.
I need like an ebay tutorial lol.

What would make it "half as fast" as Threadripper? I mean, it's 2 less cores and 700 mhz less clockspeed. Is that that much of a difference especially since it's Haswell?

For $700 I can get ram and that deal.

 

[Markfw]

That sounds like a monster steal. How are you finding that? I'm looking and I'm seeing it at full high $1k+ prices except for a couple from japan/china for $350-500 for just the processor.
I need like an ebay tutorial lol.

What would make it "half as fast" as Threadripper? I mean, it's 2 less cores and 700 mhz less clockspeed. Is that that much of a difference especially since it's Haswell?

For $700 I can get ram and that deal.

Benchmark. In my case how fast they can do WCG units Alos, it only runs at 2500, and the 1950x STOCK runs at 3500 all cores.. Also running 3600 ram, and for TR thats a boost. E5's will not support anything over 2133.

Here is the motherboard I recommend if you go E5 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157543R

 

[Burpo]

That sounds like a monster steal. How are you finding that? I'm looking and I'm seeing it at full high $1k+ prices except for a couple from japan/china for $350-500 for just the processor.
I need like an ebay tutorial lol.

What would make it "half as fast" as Threadripper? I mean, it's 2 less cores and 700 mhz less clockspeed. Is that that much of a difference especially since it's Haswell?

For $700 I can get ram and that deal.

I just did a search for LGA 2011 v3 and saw these at reasonable prices..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gigabyte-G...123037&hash=item212d157715:g:pC0AAOSwcqBZpTZH

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MSI-X99S-G...104234&hash=item2a9e876a06:g:fNsAAOSwVlVaLv8A

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon...363933?hash=item362b1a165d:g:DwgAAOSwNDJac21r

 

[IEC]

I just did a search for LGA 2011 v3 and saw these at reasonable prices..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gigabyte-G...123037&hash=item212d157715:g:pC0AAOSwcqBZpTZH

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MSI-X99S-G...104234&hash=item2a9e876a06:g:fNsAAOSwVlVaLv8A

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon...363933?hash=item362b1a165d:g:DwgAAOSwNDJac21r

That CPU is a grey market ES marked "Intel Confidential". That's why it's so "cheap". You also have no way of knowing what is different from retail silicon.