Building a better home

[crab]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: crab

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: crab

Originally posted by: Aquaman

Originally posted by: crab
Geo system:

Basement:
-Climate Master 2-ton 2-stage Geo unit
-Single Pump
-10KW Electric heat
-Honeywell Visionpro Tstat

First Floor:
-Climate Master 5-ton 2-stage Geo unit
-Dual Pumps
-20KW Electric heat
-Honeywell Visionpro Tstat
-Hot water generator

Second Floor:
-Climate Master 4-ton 2-stage Geo unit
-Dual Pump
-20KW Electric heat
-Honeywell Visionpro Tstat

~1,000ft loop

That's a huge house man. I am envious. If you don't mind me asking..... how much more did it cost you to use geothermal instead of conventional heating?

Cheers,
Aquaman

We honestly never priced oil or gas...we couldnt find anywhere suitable to put three big AC units with all of that deck space, so we went geothermal. It was very expensive in the beginning, but it should even out costwise after a couple years.

What the house size?
What R rating does the wall & windows?

11 tone is quite a bit for a house, however I have worked on a house that have eight 5 tone units & two 3 tones units. It was an over kill for a 16,000 sqf home that have indoor & out door swimming pools that is heated by geothermal system. The cost of the house was north of 20 millions, and the landscape is an additional 4-4.5 millions.

11 tone should be more than adequate at heating/cooling a 4000-5000 sqf home with poor insulation, and a modern home with good insulation at 11 tones should be calculate for a 8000-10,000 sqf home.

Its about 10,000sq/ft with R38 blown cellulose insulation...walls are 4" with 1/2" drywall.

Your wall is pretty thin if you are indeed live in Indianapolis. 6-8" exterior wall construction is quite common in such a cool region. It is very likely that you will be okay on most day/night except for the cold period then the second stage electric heater kick in to take up the slack.

How many feet of loops do you have, what is the loop size, and what type of soil is it in, or is it in water?

I weighed the costs of using 6" walls and using the best insulation materials and it wasnt completely cost effective to go bigger. These guys have done both, and thermal tests showed the differences to be negligible. As of today, this thing is 95% framed.

I know the loops are like 1000ft and about 15ft deep. Not sure of the size. The loop was already laid in November.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
One thing I must must MUST have in my house whenever I own my own house which should be in a year or two is a fireplace, and/or wood stove connected to forced air.

In the two houses my parents have owned one had a wood stove + gas furnace all connected to the same vents/ducting...the other had a fireplace centrally located in the house. Both houses the cost of gas in the winter was dramatically lower because of said wood burning devices.

And it's a feasible option for my family since we own 125 acres of old growth deciduous forest and we can get all the wood we need...especially good wood such as oak for burning.

Force air wood stove is a novel idea however reliability & maintenance isn?t worth the gain of less than 10% efficiency over non blower fire box.

We never had a problem when we used to have it.

 

[NoShangriLa]

Originally posted by: crab

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: crab

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: crab

Originally posted by: Aquaman

Originally posted by: crab
Geo system:

Basement:
-Climate Master 2-ton 2-stage Geo unit
-Single Pump
-10KW Electric heat
-Honeywell Visionpro Tstat

First Floor:
-Climate Master 5-ton 2-stage Geo unit
-Dual Pumps
-20KW Electric heat
-Honeywell Visionpro Tstat
-Hot water generator

Second Floor:
-Climate Master 4-ton 2-stage Geo unit
-Dual Pump
-20KW Electric heat
-Honeywell Visionpro Tstat

~1,000ft loop

That's a huge house man. I am envious. If you don't mind me asking..... how much more did it cost you to use geothermal instead of conventional heating?

Cheers,
Aquaman

We honestly never priced oil or gas...we couldnt find anywhere suitable to put three big AC units with all of that deck space, so we went geothermal. It was very expensive in the beginning, but it should even out costwise after a couple years.

What the house size?
What R rating does the wall & windows?

11 tone is quite a bit for a house, however I have worked on a house that have eight 5 tone units & two 3 tones units. It was an over kill for a 16,000 sqf home that have indoor & out door swimming pools that is heated by geothermal system. The cost of the house was north of 20 millions, and the landscape is an additional 4-4.5 millions.

11 tone should be more than adequate at heating/cooling a 4000-5000 sqf home with poor insulation, and a modern home with good insulation at 11 tones should be calculate for a 8000-10,000 sqf home.

Its about 10,000sq/ft with R38 blown cellulose insulation...walls are 4" with 1/2" drywall.

Your wall is pretty thin if you are indeed live in Indianapolis. 6-8" exterior wall construction is quite common in such a cool region. It is very likely that you will be okay on most day/night except for the cold period then the second stage electric heater kick in to take up the slack.

How many feet of loops do you have, what is the loop size, and what type of soil is it in, or is it in water?

I weighed the costs of using 6" walls and using the best insulation materials and it wasnt completely cost effective to go bigger. These guys have done both, and thermal tests showed the differences to be negligible. As of today, this thing is 95% framed.

I know the loops are like 1000ft and about 15ft deep. Not sure of the size. The loop was already laid in November.

You might be able to get away with 1000ft loop in water, but I would go with 2000ft of 1-1.25" diameter poly in water, or 3000ft in good soil for that large house.

If you went with close cell spray foam insulation then 2x4 construction should still be very good for R value.

 

[crab]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: crab

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: crab

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: crab

Originally posted by: Aquaman

Originally posted by: crab
Geo system:

Basement:
-Climate Master 2-ton 2-stage Geo unit
-Single Pump
-10KW Electric heat
-Honeywell Visionpro Tstat

First Floor:
-Climate Master 5-ton 2-stage Geo unit
-Dual Pumps
-20KW Electric heat
-Honeywell Visionpro Tstat
-Hot water generator

Second Floor:
-Climate Master 4-ton 2-stage Geo unit
-Dual Pump
-20KW Electric heat
-Honeywell Visionpro Tstat

~1,000ft loop

That's a huge house man. I am envious. If you don't mind me asking..... how much more did it cost you to use geothermal instead of conventional heating?

Cheers,
Aquaman

We honestly never priced oil or gas...we couldnt find anywhere suitable to put three big AC units with all of that deck space, so we went geothermal. It was very expensive in the beginning, but it should even out costwise after a couple years.

What the house size?
What R rating does the wall & windows?

11 tone is quite a bit for a house, however I have worked on a house that have eight 5 tone units & two 3 tones units. It was an over kill for a 16,000 sqf home that have indoor & out door swimming pools that is heated by geothermal system. The cost of the house was north of 20 millions, and the landscape is an additional 4-4.5 millions.

11 tone should be more than adequate at heating/cooling a 4000-5000 sqf home with poor insulation, and a modern home with good insulation at 11 tones should be calculate for a 8000-10,000 sqf home.

Its about 10,000sq/ft with R38 blown cellulose insulation...walls are 4" with 1/2" drywall.

Your wall is pretty thin if you are indeed live in Indianapolis. 6-8" exterior wall construction is quite common in such a cool region. It is very likely that you will be okay on most day/night except for the cold period then the second stage electric heater kick in to take up the slack.

How many feet of loops do you have, what is the loop size, and what type of soil is it in, or is it in water?

I weighed the costs of using 6" walls and using the best insulation materials and it wasnt completely cost effective to go bigger. These guys have done both, and thermal tests showed the differences to be negligible. As of today, this thing is 95% framed.

I know the loops are like 1000ft and about 15ft deep. Not sure of the size. The loop was already laid in November.

You might be able to get away with 1000ft loop in water, but I would go with 2000ft of 1-1.25" diameter poly in water, or 3000ft for that large house.

If you went with close cell spray foam insulation then 2x4 construction should still be very good for R value.

The loop is underground, actually.

 

[NoShangriLa]

Originally posted by: crab

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: crab

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: crab

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: crab

Originally posted by: Aquaman

Originally posted by: crab
Geo system:

Basement:
-Climate Master 2-ton 2-stage Geo unit
-Single Pump
-10KW Electric heat
-Honeywell Visionpro Tstat

First Floor:
-Climate Master 5-ton 2-stage Geo unit
-Dual Pumps
-20KW Electric heat
-Honeywell Visionpro Tstat
-Hot water generator

Second Floor:
-Climate Master 4-ton 2-stage Geo unit
-Dual Pump
-20KW Electric heat
-Honeywell Visionpro Tstat

~1,000ft loop

That's a huge house man. I am envious. If you don't mind me asking..... how much more did it cost you to use geothermal instead of conventional heating?

Cheers,
Aquaman

We honestly never priced oil or gas...we couldnt find anywhere suitable to put three big AC units with all of that deck space, so we went geothermal. It was very expensive in the beginning, but it should even out costwise after a couple years.

What the house size?
What R rating does the wall & windows?

11 tone is quite a bit for a house, however I have worked on a house that have eight 5 tone units & two 3 tones units. It was an over kill for a 16,000 sqf home that have indoor & out door swimming pools that is heated by geothermal system. The cost of the house was north of 20 millions, and the landscape is an additional 4-4.5 millions.

11 tone should be more than adequate at heating/cooling a 4000-5000 sqf home with poor insulation, and a modern home with good insulation at 11 tones should be calculate for a 8000-10,000 sqf home.

Its about 10,000sq/ft with R38 blown cellulose insulation...walls are 4" with 1/2" drywall.

Your wall is pretty thin if you are indeed live in Indianapolis. 6-8" exterior wall construction is quite common in such a cool region. It is very likely that you will be okay on most day/night except for the cold period then the second stage electric heater kick in to take up the slack.

How many feet of loops do you have, what is the loop size, and what type of soil is it in, or is it in water?

I weighed the costs of using 6" walls and using the best insulation materials and it wasnt completely cost effective to go bigger. These guys have done both, and thermal tests showed the differences to be negligible. As of today, this thing is 95% framed.

I know the loops are like 1000ft and about 15ft deep. Not sure of the size. The loop was already laid in November.

You might be able to get away with 1000ft loop in water, but I would go with 2000ft of 1-1.25" diameter poly in water, or 3000ft for that large house.

If you went with close cell spray foam insulation then 2x4 construction should still be very good for R value.

The loop is underground, actually.

I mean 3000ft in soil, more if it is in sand or clay. If you have clay & for such a large house it might be feasible to drill a well for your loops 400ft well can yield 1600ft of piping.

 

[crab]

You know, I just started looking through papers to double check things. Its three seperate loops, horizontal, in soil. I believe they are 1k ft EACH, but I'll check tomorrow.

 

[Aquaman]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Subscribe to Custom Home Builder. You can go from a normal looking home to an elegant one for 2% more in cost. Well, if you do all the trim work on your own anyways. You'd be amazed at the products that are out there.

EDIT: I can't recall the magzine's actual name. Argghhhhh

is it custom builder?

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[ElFenix]

here's a thought:

use a split air conditioner for bedrooms or the home office if no one else is in the other areas of the house for the vast majority of the day. when you're asleep, you may like to keep it cool there, but why cool off your kitchen, dining room, living room, office, etc.? just wasting electricity.

either that or some sort of smart central a/c that can open/close vents as needed (though vents leak and that system sounds complicated to install and program)

 

[CPA]

I didn't read the whole thread, so I'm not sure if someone posted it here, but here is something to consider:

If you are building a custom home chances are you aren't going to go for the standard flat white wall paint. That is fine, go for some color, BUT be very careful on how far you go. Any faux painting will cause problems down the road if you need to patch or repair your walls. It is nearly impossible to match the original faux painting style you used at the beginning. Enough patches or spot painting and before you know it your walls look like crap. Faux painting is very nice and you can do all sorts of cool patterns, but seriously consider sticking with a solid coat.

The same goes for spackling, don't get too fancy, it can be very difficult to patch the pattern on your repair work with the rest of the existing wall.

 

[NoShangriLa]

Originally posted by: herkulease
I'm eying my aunts home, since from the looks of it none of my cousin's is looking to be the one to take it over.

One of my plans besides redoing the hardwood floors and kitchen counters is network the house.

Is it possible to network the home without tearing down walls or the floor?

house is sorta divided with vaulted ceilings.

its like
[rooms]---open space with walkway on 2nd floor allow you to view down---[rooms]

that and there's a guest house too. I figure dig up the ground and run wiring inside some tubes.

That geothermal system sounds interesting. can it be placed in any home or does the home have to be custom built around it?

It is possible to run wiring through ducting from basement to attic and everything eles can be pull from it, however you may have to open a wall or two if there isn't a way to get a wire there.

Geothermal can be done on retrofit home, however the cost is quite high in such application.

 

[Kaido]

Been doing more research, here are some ideas I've come up with to incorporate better materials into my dream home:

HVAC:
Geothermal heating/cooling system + all-season ceiling fans (includes reverse for heat)
Hydronic floor heating (floors, towel racks, shower walls, pool/deck, driveway/sidewalk)
Ventilation system with air purifier (HEPA)
Whole-house humidifier/dehumidifier

Water:
Tankless water heater(s) + insulated pipes
Water purification system

Walls/floors/roof:
Fiber-cement siding + ICF/Fibermesh + QuietRockSoundproof drywall + Fireproof paint
Fiberglass doors + Low E Windows with in-glass blinds + Thermal drapes (motorized)
Easily-cleanable carpeting (fireproof?) + DuraCeramic hardfloors + Steel beams
Metal roof (soundproof insulation, high-quality for dent resistance) + No-clog gutters

 

[Howard]

I retract my comments about the pointlessness of wall heating. Wall heating is quite effective at making you feel warm.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Howard
I retract my comments about the pointlessness of wall heating. Wall heating is quite effective at making you feel warm.

You get some experience between now and your last post?

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: Howard
I retract my comments about the pointlessness of wall heating. Wall heating is quite effective at making you feel warm.

You get some experience between now and your last post?

Learned some stuff in my heat transfer class, actually.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: Howard
I retract my comments about the pointlessness of wall heating. Wall heating is quite effective at making you feel warm.

You get some experience between now and your last post?

Learned some stuff in my heat transfer class, actually.

Nice! Going with my post above, I was poking around and found a Bob Vila video that involves ICFs, fiberglass Low-E windows, metal roofing, solar roof panels, and more:

http://www.bobvila.com/BVTV/Bob_Vila/Video-0224-01-1.html

 

[Chunkee]

good lord Mr. Crab, a 10,000 sq foot house....? do you do a lot of entertaining? Do you have 18 children? One thing that many here overlook for considering being "eco-friendly" is the actual size of said home. Do you need 10000 square feet in a home. Being energy efficient is great and all and I am all for it, but stop for a moment and think of the resources utilized to create such a large home...? at what point to you reach the point of diminishing return?

Mr. Crab...I would much like to come see that house as it is being built. I am not too far away...I am in E. Tenn...I suppose you are in Indiana? It will be quite an accomplishment once it is completed. I hope all goes will with the contractors as I know at times they can prove to be unfavorable.

jC

 

[RU482]

here's an idea....mirrors above your bed

 

[NoShangriLa]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
here's a thought:

use a split air conditioner for bedrooms or the home office if no one else is in the other areas of the house for the vast majority of the day. when you're asleep, you may like to keep it cool there, but why cool off your kitchen, dining room, living room, office, etc.? just wasting electricity.

either that or some sort of smart central a/c that can open/close vents as needed (though vents leak and that system sounds complicated to install and program)

Ductless splits is great for retrofitting with out ripping out walls, however the draw back is that the lifespan of the equipment is about 10 years and they tend to fail all at the same time. Beside the cost of replacing them all in 10 years it all so cost more to maintain them.

Ductless split isn't as efficient as central AC as you like to think.

 

[Kaido]

For those of you with pools/pool experience, what do you do with a pool in the winter when it snows? I'd imagine cover it or drain it...

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Kaido
For those of you with pools/pool experience, what do you do with a pool in the winter when it snows? I'd imagine cover it or drain it...

Generally you drain it and then pump all the pipes out. The problem with covering it is that water freezes in the pipes and breaks them.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: Kaido
For those of you with pools/pool experience, what do you do with a pool in the winter when it snows? I'd imagine cover it or drain it...

Generally you drain it and then pump all the pipes out. The problem with covering it is that water freezes in the pipes and breaks them.

My wife likes the idea of having a pool, but I'm not sold on it. I had a pool when I lived in Florida and there was a lot of upkeep involved. I've been reading over instructions on how to winterize a pool and it really looks like more trouble than it's worth.

But it's all a dream right now so why not :laugh:

 

[Slap]

I am currently building a new home. Just now pouring the slab. I thought I was building a nice size house at 4,000 sq ft heated, but Crab's blows mine away.

I am going to use foam insulation on outside walls, Takagi M1 tankless water heater, and low-e windows. I hope the Takagi M1 will be enough for 3.5 baths. I may be better off using two smaller ones in series. I thought about geothermal, but on those 95-100 degree days I want my house cold and I have heard they have a hard time with doing that. They may get it to about 75 degrees, but I like it around 68 in the summer months.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Slap
I am currently building a new home. Just now pouring the slab. I thought I was building a nice size house at 4,000 sq ft heated, but Crab's blows mine away.

I am going to use foam insulation on outside walls, Takagi M1 tankless water heater, and low-e windows. I hope the Takagi M1 will be enough for 3.5 baths. I may be better off using two smaller ones in series. I thought about geothermal, but on those 95-100 degree days I want my house cold and I have heard they have a hard time with doing that. They may get it to about 75 degrees, but I like it around 68 in the summer months.

Definitely let us know how that Takagi turns out. I'm very interested in tankless

 

[NoShangriLa]

Originally posted by: Slap
I am currently building a new home. Just now pouring the slab. I thought I was building a nice size house at 4,000 sq ft heated, but Crab's blows mine away.

I am going to use foam insulation on outside walls, Takagi M1 tankless water heater, and low-e windows. I hope the Takagi M1 will be enough for 3.5 baths. I may be better off using two smaller ones in series. I thought about geothermal, but on those 95-100 degree days I want my house cold and I have heard they have a hard time with doing that. They may get it to about 75 degrees, but I like it around 68 in the summer months.

Gas tankless water heater should be able to handle the load.

If geothermal is sized correctly for the house it should be able to do the load that require for heating & cooling. It is best to go with an experience reputable company to get the best performance out of geothermal heat pump.