Building a computer for the first time

[churcheo]

I have read the sticky and that just seems to be about buying parts and I've already done that. However, if I missed something, please correct me. All my parts will be arriving before Friday of this week and I'm trying to get the best understanding of what exactly I need to do. I am fairly certain I'll be able to figure out putting it together after reading the manuals and such, but tips for installation would be great as well. However, I am a stickler for having things such as this just the way I like them and in this case, I want it to be perfect. I don't want to just put it together and use it like I just bought a Dell or some pre-made PC. It's going to be a gaming rig which I want to overclock, but also need it for school so it needs to be completely stable. I have read quite a few things on configuring bios, running mem tests, prime 95, but I don't really understand it because they were never spoke of in the context of how to use them, just to use them.


Here are my system specs:

Lian Li PC-65B
Athlon64 4000+
XP-90 w/ Panaflo 92mm
DFI LP nF4 UT Ultra-D
Sapphire X850 XT
2x512 OCZ EL Dual Chan PC3200 Rev. 2
SB Audigy 2
OCZ Modstream 520W
2x36 10k WD Raptor (hopefully in raid 0)
160GB Seagate IDE (suggestions on if I should just buy a SATA drive? IDE is carrying over from a different computer, but hardly used)
Lite-On 1673S Dual Layer Burner
Samsung floppy (if it matters)
Gatewatcher Fan controller
3 Panaflow 120s in the case, maybe some other fans

I'm fairly certain I'll be able to OC nicely due to other people posting their results with similiar setups, but I can't take that for granted. I want to OC the CPU, GPU and Ram, so I know I have much to learn, but I need some help in the right direction. It's not to much to hope for, to get the most out of what you pay for, right? Some advice on the memtest86, bios, OCing, prime95 and anything to make a computer stable and run to it's fullest potential would be great. Basically, what I'm asking for is some advice from you experts at any of this type of stuff? Thanks for your time, take care. I apologize beforehand if I get flammed for doing something wrong.

Regards,
churcheo

 

[biostud]

get one raptor 73Gb instead of 2 36

 

[churcheo]

I was thinking I might do 2x73Gb raptors.

 

[imported_bushman]

2X73 raptors (assuming raid 0) is for some reason faster than 2 36's

 

[rocketPack]

I agree with biostud, the 74gb raptors are optimized for desktop performance whereas the 36gb raptors are optimized for workstation/server performance (and there is quite a difference).

Also, make sure you buy zip-ties and get ALL of your tools laid out before you start. It's really annoying to have to get up in the middle to rummage for a tool. Clear out a lot of work area, the boxes junk comes in takes up a lot of room that you will need; I hate trying to reorganize boxes in the middle of a system build, it's just not as fun .

Some tools you want to make sure you have:
- Power screwdriver (your arm will be tired pretty fast if you try to do it all by hand) with medium phillips bit. (Don't try using it on smaller screws because they are weaker and have smaller threads, thus less ability to stand up to lots of torque).
- Hand-held screwdrivers, 1 medium and 1 small (not like micro, but definately small enough that it has at least a little bit of a point on the end).
- Flat-head screwdrviers can be handy but aren't typically necessary (Except for installing Socket A HSFs).
- ZIP Ties! Lots of them. It makes your life easier and makes it look better.
- Wire cutters (you'll never be able to track down all those zip-tie ends if you don't cut them off frequently).
- Needle nose and duck-bill pliers are always handy. If possible, get some long and thin needle nose, and some regular ones. Hemostats (the clamping plier-like ones) are also helpful sometimes.
- I think it's a 1/4" or a 3/16" or 1/8" or something hex driver for motherboard stand-offs and one of the other sizes for the really stubborn hex-head/phillips case-screws.

Make sure you unpackage all of your parts so they are accessable, and organize them in a manner that makes them easy to get at at the appropriate time (laying the hard drive down and setting the side panel of your case on top of it is an example of a dumb idea), BUT don't lose your documentation and necessary packaging! If you need to make returns you will kick yourself for losing all the literature/accessories/packaging.

Lastly, just take your time and enjoy!

Good luck!

 

[rocketPack]

Originally posted by: churcheo
I was thinking I might do 2x73Gb raptors.

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2101

Not worth your money (if they're for a RAID0).

Personally I would install Windows and all my programs to one drive (a raptor), and then use the other for file storage (which, obviously, would not require a raptor... spend less and buy a seagate 200gb SATA drive for that). That way you can avoid file fragmentation that results from the constant manipulation, reorganization, and access of files from affecting your important files - the OS and programs. This also keeps you from hitting that 60% capacity performance barrier that would result from a shared filesystem on a single drive (or emulated drive [RAID0]). Also, the Raptor spinning at 10,000RPM is much more prone to failure than a good old seagate (5 year warranty, as opposed to all other manfacturer's 3-year warranties), so if the raptor fails (which it will before the seagate does under normal use) it wont take out all your precious data - just the replacable stuff like Windows.

I can't see much of a reason to do it any other way after reading that article, but that's just me =)

Also, like I said in my other post - the 36gb raptors were never intended for desktop use, mostly workstation and server use, while the 74gb raptors were tweaked for desktop applications and thus perform better in that environment.

Edit: I'm not sure my explanation was clear.
I recommend this configuration:
1x WD Raptor, 74gb: Windows and Programs. The faster drive will contain the frequently accessed data that requires quick access. This also helps overcome the issue of the shorter life expectancy of the raptor, because it contains easily replaceable data. Isolating this data from your "documents" (music, movies, downloads, etc) keeps fragmentation to a minimum; while a simple repartitioning would achieve the same effect it would not come without a performance impact and an effect on the life of the drive.

1x Seagate, 200Gb: Music, documents, downloads, etc. The larger drive will better accomodate any ambitious downloader while giving more peace of mind and security to this less replacable data, as the seagate drive is much less prone to failure.

Does that make sense? Does to me =D

 

[Gamingphreek]

Either get a 74gig Raptor for boot up (still unecessary) or dont get one at all. They are not worth the enormous price increase and storage size drop. Most other drives are just as fast as they are, you wont notice any difference between the two. Also dont bother with RAID, not meant for the average consumer and a waste of money.

I would advise that you get a single Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 with NCQ. Much better bang for your buck.

Also do not get the 4000+. Another waste of money. Simply get a 3200+ or a 3500+ and OC it.

Yet another waste of money would be the X850XT. Before i give out any recommendations on video card how early do you plan on upgrading your video card. Do you plan on upgrading next generation early or mid or do you plan on upgrading late next gen or just skipping the next gen.

Next, although i think Panaflo fans are excellent the 120mm's are not as good. I would HIGHLY advise buying Nexus or Yate Loon for the 120's. The Panaflos have a distinct electrical chatter (the 120mm versions).

Lastly, i would get the NEC-3520A burner instead of the Lite-On. IIRC it is cheaper and better.

I apologize beforehand if I get flammed for doing something wrong

Dont go apologizing. Especially since you did nothing wrong. Everyone has to start somewhere. You not knowing everything in the world is no reason to apologize.

-Kevin

 

[churcheo]

Ok, I was too hasty (usually have a tendancy to be so) and ordered 2x36s already. I just ordered 2x74s and will be sending the others back.


Thanks for your replies, keep them coming! Any tips on OC and testing and such?

 

[Gamingphreek]

I agree with biostud, the 74gb raptors are optimized for desktop performance whereas the 36gb raptors are optimized for workstation/server performance (and there is quite a difference).

Where did you pull that from. That is completely false. The 36.7gig Raptors are merely generation 1 raptors while the 74gig are gen 2. It has nothing to do with server or workstation or desktop.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: churcheo
Ok, I was too hasty (usually have a tendancy to be so) and ordered 2x36s already. I just ordered 2x74s and will be sending the others back.


Thanks for your replies, keep them coming! Any tips on OC and testing and such?

I would HIGHLY recommend cancelling them both. If you are hell bent on getting a raptor get a single 74gig for boot and OS. You will notice virtually no difference in everything.

If you really really want a difference do not look to RAID or Raptors. Look at SCSI.

-Kevin

 

[rocketPack]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: churcheo
Ok, I was too hasty (usually have a tendancy to be so) and ordered 2x36s already. I just ordered 2x74s and will be sending the others back.


Thanks for your replies, keep them coming! Any tips on OC and testing and such?

I would HIGHLY recommend cancelling them both. If you are hell bent on getting a raptor get a single 74gig for boot and OS. You will notice virtually no difference in everything.

If you really really want a difference do not look to RAID or Raptors. Look at SCSI.

-Kevin

Don't take it up with me - I read it in a review of the drive (the 74gb) ages ago when it first came out.

Bottom line - the 36gb raptor was not intended for the same use as the 74gb.

Also, did anyone even read my other post? (Edited). I think I'm pretty much barking up the same tree as Gamingphreek. Read what I wrote, I promise it's not all hogwash.

 

[churcheo]

Was just about to click "Confirm order" as I read that article. Well, ok then. I will just get a single 74Gb and the 200gb SATA drive like you said for storage. Thanks again.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: churcheo
Was just about to click "Confirm order" as I read that article. Well, ok then. I will just get a single 74Gb and the 200gb SATA drive like you said for storage. Thanks again.

Dont thank me lol, you are the one who made the decision. However, you just saved yourself a lot of money that would have been pretty much wasted.

Don't take it up with me - I read it in a review of the drive (the 74gb) ages ago when it first came out.

Bottom line - the 36gb raptor was not intended for the same use as the 74gb.

Also, did anyone even read my other post? (Edited). I think I'm pretty much barking up the same tree as Gamingphreek. Read what I wrote, I promise it's not all hogwash.

I did read your other post and (no offense) but you are wrong. That is the sole purpose of Raptors. They are meant for Consumer level desktop PC's. They are meant to emulate SCSI performance and bridge the gap between ATA and SCSI. However the cost/performance/gigabyte (ie: bang for your buck) is horrible.

-Kevin

 

[churcheo]

Well, none the less, thank you Kevin and every one else who has posted.

Any more advice for post-build, tweaking, checking stability? I will check the thread tomorrow, once again thanks for your advice guys.

 

[n yusef]

If you want to OC a lot, the 4000+ is a waste of money. A cheaper 90nm Winchester (3000+ to 3500+) will get you to almost the same speeds as a 4000+ (the added bandwidth from using a lower multiplier with the same total CPU clock helps out too.), and the extra L2 Cache doesn't make much of a difference on the Athlon 64's. If you really want a 4000+ though, you can look around for remaining FX-53's (make sure it's s939!), as the 4000+ is just a rebranded FX-53 with a locked (unlocked down) multiplier.
Good luck on your build!

 

[Dragonbate]

Love my new 74 gb Raptor but wouldn't buy 2- anandtech's article showed zero performance increase in raid. Also the 74 gb is supposed to have a small performance edge over the 36 gbs on top of being cheaper per gig.

 

[churcheo]

Ok, so let me ask this:

With the cooling I have selected, can you guys give me a rough estimate on what you think the 4000+, 3500+ Winchester and Fx-53 would OC to? I have been seeing the 3500+ OC to 2.5 with stock (correct me if I'm wrong). I imagine even higher with my cooling. If the 3500+ will go to relatively the same speeds (possibly higher?) and have about the same performance then I will definitely buy that since price is always a concern. n yusef and anyone elses feedback would be greatly appreciated in answering those questions.

I don't quite understand about the added bandwidth from a lower multiplier, maybe you could explain? Also, why does the lesser L2 not matter as much on Athlon 64s? I understand the 90nm has a lower temp and requires less voltage. Sorry, I'm quite the novice, but I want to learn. I plan on purchasing tomorrow, so I'd like to have a good idea when I read in the morning.

 

[TheInvincibleMustard]

Originally posted by: rocketPack
Some tools you want to make sure you have:
- Flat-head screwdrviers can be handy but aren't typically necessary (Except for installing Socket A HSFs).

Negatory on that ... use a socket-driver, hex-head, something along those lines ... slip the nubby on the HSF into the driver and use that ... MUCH less chance of slippage!

(not that this is directly applicable at all to the current thread, but thought I'd point it out)

 

[churcheo]

Any input is good input to me. Thanks.

 

[leedog2007]

check out the Athlon 64 oc guide its on the cpu forum. Helped me alot when i went to oc my A64.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Your thread in the other section was responded to buy a guy named MechBgone. He has a how to build your computer thread linked in his sig, check it out.

 

[churcheo]

Very helpful. Thank you. Anyone have any opinions on my CPU options?

Pr0d1gy: Thanks, I checked it out. It was well worth it. Made of a lot of bookmarks tonight

 

[rocketPack]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

I did read your other post and (no offense) but you are wrong. That is the sole purpose of Raptors. They are meant for Consumer level desktop PC's. They are meant to emulate SCSI performance and bridge the gap between ATA and SCSI. However the cost/performance/gigabyte (ie: bang for your buck) is horrible.

-Kevin

http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200311/20031111WD740GD_1.html

I am not trying to start a fight, by any means - honestly. I just wanted to point out (and I cannot say that is the article I was refering to earlier, I honestly have no clue where the one I refered to went), but the first 3 paragraphs are pretty suggestive that the drive was intended for server and workstation use (the first 3 paragraphs are outlining the progress of the origional 36gb drive, despite the article being about the 74gb drive). If I were to trust anyone it would be a web site specializing in hard drive reviews.

Now again, this is not to start a fight, just to give some beef to my statement. I'm not saying you're wrong, just giving a little reason behind what I had said. Please don't get angry and flame me for saying it, (and this is the last time I will itterate this statement) I just wanted to let you know that I'm not a crackpot wierdo trying to make ambitious claims out of the blue.

Back to the topic...

I guess he didn't ever read my posts; a shame too since I wrote so many words. *sigh* Maybe I should stop trying to be helpful ^_^

Back off the topic...
...and RE: TheInvincibleMustard,
I'm not sure I followed what you said, but it sounds interesting. Could you elaborate on that a little? I'm not even 100% sure what you were actually trying to recommend I do, but I think it had to do with Socket A HSF attachment, which I would agree is entirely OT but still interesting

Anyway, enough trying to be useful for me.

 

[Pixle]

Chucheo , here is a tip for you.

It looks like youa re building an awesome rig with that amd 64 4000. However, why dont you wait on buying until the spring of 2005.

Then you can spend the $600 on a Dual Core A64. You can also purchase the new Ati X900(?) (r520) Video Card that Ati is going to produce. Rumoured at up to 3 times faster than the x800.

So I recommend.

1. You purchase everything you have their (except for the cpu). Buy a 3000 64 or 3200 and overclock that to FX 55 speeds. (2.7ghz) It should be pretty easy considering the fact that you have great ram selected. Then just swap out the Cpu with a $600 one down the road.

2. You could wait and buy everything in a few months. Prices should be down for everything listed and you would purchase the cutting edge technology (although always impossible) at the price point.

 

[rocketPack]

Originally posted by: Pixle
Chucheo , here is a tip for you.

It looks like youa re building an awesome rig with that amd 64 4000. However, why dont you wait on buying until the spring of 2005.

Then you can spend the $600 on a Dual Core A64. You can also purchase the new Ati X900(?) (r520) Video Card that Ati is going to produce. Rumoured at up to 3 times faster than the x800.

So I recommend.

1. You purchase everything you have their (except for the cpu). Buy a 3000 64 or 3200 and overclock that to FX 55 speeds. (2.7ghz) It should be pretty easy considering the fact that you have great ram selected. Then just swap out the Cpu with a $600 one down the road.

2. You could wait and buy everything in a few months. Prices should be down for everything listed and you would purchase the cutting edge technology (although always impossible) at the price point.

That sounds like a pretty cool suggestion. You can also do what I do to keep the bank happy: eBay all the parts you replace down the road. (Specifically the processor, which should still be worth at least $100 (OEM) by then if you get the 3200, probably more.)

Oh yeah, I wanted to mention that it would be a good idea to purchase a hard drive fan for the raptor. They are quite hot, so hot in fact that they are designed with lots of fins on them to help dissipate the heat effectively, so in order to make it reliable a good amount of airflow around the drive would be recommended. You can pick one up for like $8 shipped from newegg. And definately put in an 80mm fan or two in the front of your case in front of the hard drive if you have a place for one (many do).
Linkage:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-150-005&depa=0

Good luck! (I'm jealous by the way! )