Building a new backup server...

[bob4432]

i am in the process of putting together a new home backup server that also will run some web and ftp sites (both regular and ssl) and take care of print sharing. i will more than likely be using for the short term a raid 1 500GB setup and then when i get a card a raid 5 1TB setup.

people suggest that i need to backup this backup machine. how many backups do you need? for me to lose all i would have to have 3hdds fail (the raid drives and the original drive) all at the same time. obviously when 1TB hdds are a bit affordable i will probably put one of those in a external usb or 1394 case, but is everybody that paranoid?

the data is important but at what point does it become too much?

 

[corfe83]

I think the odds of two hard drives failing at the same time is pretty astronomically low, and it sounds like you'd have to lose 3 at the same time to lose your data, which makes your odds even more insanely miniscule. Personally, my backup server at home just has two drives - one for main storage, the other holding a backup (not RAID - it's a nightly backup).

However, depending on how much money you have, and how critical this data is to you, keep in mind you can still conceivably lose it. All it takes is your power supply sending a power surge to all the hard drives, and you could lose all the drives at the same time. Your server could get physically damaged (maybe your toilet overflows, spreading water to the floor of the other rooms). You could have a thief break in and take your little server altogether.

If you want to be extra sure (and/or paranoid), it's always good to have an offsite backup, if you can. Every month or so, burn 1 or more DVDs of the most critical data on your storage drive, and keep it at your desk at work, rent a safe deposit box at the bank, or mail it to your parents.

 

[timswim78]

I guess the point is that in the event of a fire or theft, you are most likely going to lose your computers and your backup server. Off site backups are a no-brainer for crucial files.

 

[bob4432]

i guess the issue is that offsite is weird for us - we work from home, so we don't go to the office, except the back bedroom as for online backups, even my 1Mb/s internet up speed is going to take 12hrs to move ~6GB and there is a lot more than that. i will look into a safety deposit box at a close bank, that may be the best thing, and just schedule it in the pda, go get it one day, do the backup that night and then take it back the next. i guess that will cover everthing.

as far as the machine placement, i am kind of thinking of putting it up high near the ceiling, and it is on a decent ups so i am trying to keep it as safe here at home as possible.

 

[Madwand1]

Just like any backup, it's a useless waste until you need it, then it's critical. The level of paranoia may be high when someone recommends a backup of a backup, but it's not irrational -- it can make sense, esp. with off-site backups, etc., when you have data worth preserving.

But I think the more common recommendation for backups for "backup" servers is due to the fact that if you do a decent job with the "backup" server, you're very tempted to use it as a shared file server. In this case you not only have already-redundant data, but fresh data that doesn't have another backup. This might not apply to your case, but is a common case, and in this case the "backup" server needs at least a partial original data backup itself.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Madwand1
Just like any backup, it's a useless waste until you need it, then it's critical. The level of paranoia may be high when someone recommends a backup of a backup, but it's not irrational -- it can make sense, esp. with off-site backups, etc., when you have data worth preserving.

But I think the more common recommendation for backups for "backup" servers is due to the fact that if you do a decent job with the "backup" server, you're very tempted to use it as a shared file server. In this case you not only have already-redundant data, but fresh data that doesn't have another backup. This might not apply to your case, but is a common case, and in this case the "backup" server needs at least a partial original data backup itself.

yes the machine will be a file sharing machine to, but that too will get backed up to the array - the machine will have a os/app hdd, file sharing hdd and then the array

 

[Madwand1]

Well, as an FYI, there are a couple of scenarios that come to mind which you wouldn't be protected against.

1. Your PSU fries, taking all the connected drives with it.

Never happened to me. Probably won't happen to you either, but I did see a post a little while ago from someone who lost 6 drives together with a Seasonic PSU.

2. Malware / hostile hacker connects to your server and 0-writes data comprehensively / randomly.

(1) and (2) are examples why "real" backups are often qualified as separate hardware and disconnected. I'm not saying that they're critical issues for you worth spending hundreds or thousands on in order to correct. I would say however that for a serious business, such a backup should not be deemed safe enough.

 

[SuperNaruto]

Primary Data Server - Dell PowerEdge 750 - Areca 1110 PCI-X, Baracuda 750GB x2 RAID 1

Backup Data Server - Dell PowerEdge 750 - LSI 320-2X W/ Dell PowerVault 146GB x14 RAID 5 / RAID 1, Quantum SDLT 320 Tape Drive

Primary server uses EMC Replistor which replicates data real time from primary to backup

Backup server also runs Veritas Backupexec to backup to tape.

Both server runs VSS (Volume Shadow Service) to cache 24 hours of data for quick restore.

---

Depending on what OS.. you can just use windows 2003 and use DFS to replicate data between 2 server, and VSS and back them up to tape or another media..

I didn't choose the DVD 4gb/8gb backup because to backup what I need, it'll take hours of disk swapping.. 2 dlt tapes can cover me. I run them on a monthly basis and take incremental backup through out the week.. My data rarely changes so I didn't constantly need to run full backups..

Think of what the cost is of replacing your data... if you can't afford to lose it.. back it up.. i'm at the point of can't afford to lose anything.. wedding pics, video, etc.. wife will kill me...

 

[MerlinRML]

Backups are like insurance. When everything is going right, you complain about how expensive it is and how you probably won't need it. When something goes wrong, you start to think maybe it's not such a bad thing. Rinse and repeat.

I have 0 problems with using a server to store your backups. I personally prefer online backups to offline backups for the most part for the sake of convenience. However, offline backups add an additional layer of protection that online backups do not.

Offline backups mean that nothing aside from physical problems (like your backup media being crushed) will affect the data. It should be write protected so that not even you can do anything to mess it up. You can transfer these offline, and a bank safety deposity box is a pretty decent place to store your really important data.

The only real example I can think of as to why online backups are bad relates to viruses/spyware/worms jumping across your network (that should be self-explanatory), a case of versioning/archival gone awry, natural disaster, or a very rare case of multiple complex failures.

It's all a matter of storage hierarchy. Backup your OSes and less important data from your workstation machines to your backup server. That way, you can restore a previous version, recover from a simple failure, etc easily and quickly. Backup your absolutely critical data and data that you want preserved at all cost to an external harddrive or tape drive or DVD or whatever and send those to the bank.

 

[RebateMonger]

For a home user, the big reasons for off-site backups are fire and theft. Home burglaries are pretty common (I listed the home burglary rate in the U.S. in another post a few months ago, but, of course, I can't find the post now). Anyway, computers are one of the "popular" item for burglars. In a break-in, you are likely to lose all your computers.

 

[bob4432]

i hear you guys and will be checking with a bank close by to see what the charges are for a deposit box to put a 750-1TB hdd in. with my luck though, the guy with the box right next to mine will be storing his extremely rare, area51 super magnets that will erase any data off of hdd or tape...

i am also going to restructure the machines so there is a folder where important docs go, so that way i can really cut down on size of a "important" backup vs whole images.