Building a workstation, trying to choose between 7700k and 1700

[imported_erc]

First of all (and least of all), Price. After taking into account the cheaper motherboard, and included cooler on the 1700, the AMD-based build comes out to almost $100 cheaper, which honestly is a drop in the bucket, and not a huge concern.

I'm a web developer, but also do a lot of graphics and video work. So while the most taxing applications I use daily (most of Adobe CC) aren't well optimized to take advantage of multiple cores and benchmark better on the 7700K, my work may benefit from better real-world performance for multitasking on the 1700. I don't know if that's true or not, so that's one thing I'm wondering about. Thigns like exporting / editing video, jumping back and forth between Premiere Pro / After Effects / Photoshop, listening to spotify, always with a retarded number of Chrome and Firefox tabs open.

On the other hand, this isn't an enthusiast gaming rig that I want to tinker with. Intel's Core processors have been around for years, and I think it's safe to say that I can expect rock-solid stability without a lot of messing around. With an Intel build, I think I'm a lot less likely to run into any teething issues like what I've read about on the new B350 boards. Issues detecting nvme drives consistently, slow booting from nvme drives, issues with memory module compatibility, trouble getting the memory to run at its advertised speed, the list goes on.

I know that it's likely that such issues will eventually be corrected with future BIOS updates, but that still leaves me at the mercy of whatever motherboard manufacturer I choose.

What I would prefer to do is wait for Coffee Lake, but that's not an option. Where I am, the fiscal year ends June 30, and my deadline for purchases is next week.

I'm interested in hearing what people more involved in PC building have to say about the particular questions/concerns I have. Thanks!

EDIT: This thread may have fit better in the General Hardware forum. Mods, feel free to move it if that's the case.

 

[tamz_msc]

What other things do you do other than Adobe CC? This seems to be a good reference detailing anecdotal experiences of a web developer. What mileage you can get out of the 1700K depends on how much of a heavy multitasker you are. For example, my previous workplace had i7 3770 workstations with 16GB DDR3 running CentOS. We used LDAP for logins. I could feel it chug when I had Firefox with 40+ tabs open and lots of PDFs if another user was running a light to moderately heavy IDL or MATLAB code. If someone was compiling full FORTRAN code however, the machine would just become unusable. Funny thing was that doing the same thing on a Xeon E5 8 core at least kept the machine usable. I don't know if your workloads are that heavy, but if it is then obviously the 1700 would be the better choice.

Regarding memory compatibility, it's not that big of a issue outside of overclocking. Single rank DIMMs are pretty much going to run at 2667MHz. Samsung B-die is recommended for 3000MHz+ at low timings, but Hynix modules reportedly do 2933 at CL15 or above. The situation has improved la lot since launch, and an upcoming microcode update is expected to give even wider compatibility. Slow boot times have been taken care of by most manufacturers since launch, there have been no significant reports about NVMe compatibility or performance. For B350, AsRock and Gigabyte BIOS support has been positive, followed by MSI. Asus seems to have taken a somewhat negative feedback outside of their flagship X370 board.

The only concerns right now are virtualization and related things like IOMMU and PCI passthrough.

 

[imported_erc]

I don't do any virtualization or compiling. My CPU-heavy work is almost all in Adobe CC. I also stitch together drone photography into maps and 3D meshes on occasion, but those benchmarks (Agisoft Photoscan) seem close enough to not be much of a consideration when comparing the 1700 and 7700k. If I'm exporting/encoding a video, I want Photoshop to remain snappy while working with very high resolution images. Almost everything else is text editing (Sublime Text) and a lot of browser windows/tabs.

I am a bit of a fan of Gigabyte motherboards too, so that's good to know about their responsiveness in supporting these boards and fixing issues.

 

[scannall]

Personally, I'd go with the 1700. Most of what I do is modeling and rendering, and the extra cores are great.

 

[alexruiz]

A few forums members had shared that most of the Adobe CC already run faster on Ryzen.
Premiere and after effects are using all the cores.
Photoshop ran faster on the i7, but that was launch day and before a big adobe update.

I would say go up for the 1700X. While the 1700 is the most attractive price wise, in my eyes, the 1700X is the sweet spot of the Ryzen 7. Not that far off the regular 1700 in price, not that far off the 1800X in stock performance.

 

[Shlong]

I would go with 1700, it's cheaper and comes with a cooler. If you're overclocking, you're most likely going to hit 3.9 or 4.0 ghz with a decent motherboard (need to upgrade cooling though). The 8 core / 16 threads will hold up much better in the long run.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Unless you have a specific need for X370, I'd pick up a 1700 + ASRock B350 board and OC to maybe 3.6 GHz and call it a day.

As for the RAM . . . how much do you need?

 

[imported_erc]

Unless you have a specific need for X370, I'd pick up a 1700 + ASRock B350 board and OC to maybe 3.6 GHz and call it a day.

As for the RAM . . . how much do you need?

I do not have a specific need for X370, and for the 1700 build, I was considering a B350 board, but hadn't settled on a manufacturer yet. At this point, I'm still pretty apprehensive about running into issues with the BIOS and having to endure weeks of updates before the kinks are ironed out. I've read a number of reports of nvme drives randomly not being recognized on reboot, and needing to a cold boot before they would be recognized again. Also, I'd be pretty upset if I paid a bunch of money for a fast Samsung Evo 960 and my computer took 25 seconds to get tot he BIOS.

Anyway, to answer your RAM question, 16GB.

 

[imported_erc]

Also, if I do get the 1700X, I'll need a cooler too, since the vendors I have access to don't cary the 1700X with the cooler. So, suggestions for a relatively inexpensive cooler would be appreciated. If I overclock at all (and that's a big IF), it won't be much.

 

[bbhaag]

Honestly it sounds like you need the maturity and stability of Intels platform. I know the new cpu's from AMD are exciting but you are building a work machine. You need this system to boot up readily and reliably everyday for the next few years right?

If I was in the situation you are in I would go Intel.

 

[PPB]

I dont know about that raster stitching software, but i run hugin for my needs in that area and it loves threads/cores

Sent from my XT1040 using Tapatalk

 

[DidelisDiskas]

I personally have not had any issues with my r7 1700. The stock motherboard (asrock ab 350 pro4 - which i do not recommend because of only 3 real phases) bios was a bit of a mess, but it had already received 3-4 updates and everything seems to be in order now.

 

[CuriousMike]

Honestly it sounds like you need the maturity and stability of Intels platform. *snip*
If I was in the situation you are in I would go Intel.

As an excited new Ryzen owner, I'd have to agree to the above.

When I bought my R7 1700 and my B350 motherboard, I plugged everything together and it "just worked." As stated above, the majority of issues you hear about are people trying to run their memory at higher clocks.

However, I am not running an NVME and haven't paid attention to anyone with issues with them (I didn't know these issues existed until you posted.)

The Intel setup will be a solid, safe choice.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I do not have a specific need for X370, and for the 1700 build, I was considering a B350 board, but hadn't settled on a manufacturer yet. At this point, I'm still pretty apprehensive about running into issues with the BIOS and having to endure weeks of updates before the kinks are ironed out. I've read a number of reports of nvme drives randomly not being recognized on reboot, and needing to a cold boot before they would be recognized again. Also, I'd be pretty upset if I paid a bunch of money for a fast Samsung Evo 960 and my computer took 25 seconds to get tot he BIOS.

Anyway, to answer your RAM question, 16GB.

Okay, then I'd recommend the ASRock B350 Pro4. Get a 1700, use the stock cooler, OC to 3.6-3.8 GHz via multipliers. Get nice RAM, run it at DDR4-3200 14-14-14-32. You should be able to do all that without running the RAM higher than 1.35v-1.4v and the CPU higher than . . . 1.25v maybe?

NVMe "just works" on ASRock boards unless you do something stupid (as I have on a few occasions) and bring down the system with a bogus RAM overclock.

There are plenty of ways to get to DDR4-3200 right now, but one of the easiest is this:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313825

Might only do CL16, though with 1.4v CL14 will most likely happen. You might need to use Ryzen Master, which is fine since it's so easy to use it for RAM OC anyway.

 

[Topweasel]

I have only read one user on one BIOS version having NVME drops (he went back to a previous BIOS and NVME problems went away) and I participate in three different tech forums including the AMD redit.

Ryzen actually to my disappointment has been a bit of a turnkey environment as an Intel setup. Getting memory speeds above 2600 is a bit a of a hit an miss specially if you are running 16GB sticks. But honestly for the kind of work you do it doesn't matter capacity matters more.

CC had a minor update about 3 weeks ago that really boosted its core usage so the 1700 is already at or above the 7700k performance on most tasks. But even in a world where Adobe was still beholden to the 4c8t Intel architecture the extra cores would be welcome if only so that CC apps didn't core lock the system into being unresponsive till the task finished.

Get a decent board with good reviews and run at regular settings and the Ryzen setup will behave like a dream. The drivers are stable. The boards are trouble free. The only real weakness

I use my Ryzen system for mostly VM work. I have updated the BIOS a couple of times to see how memory clocks have been working out. But other than that and one set of MS updates my machine has been up and running 24/7 since late March with out a single BSOD or random shutdown and restart.

 

[Keljian]

I have a marginally more expensive board, the Asus prime x370 pro, and while it hasn't had an updated bios in about a month. The reality though is that I have had zero issues with it, aside from trying to run Hynix memory at 3200 which just isn't working at the moment (swapped to cheap b-die and it's working well at 2933). Drivers are stable.

I got the prime pro because it has plenty of power phases, plenty of sata, Intel Nic, good sound (Realtek 1220) and is cheap for an x370 board.

I don't/won't need 2x8 slots, I only go with single graphics cards, but I do have a 10gb Nic in the 4x slot on the board.

Generally just works.

 

[imported_erc]

I appreciate all of the feedback. Sunday morning I had decided on the 1700X and ASRock AB350 Pro4. Unfortunately, I have only 3 vendors to choose from: Amazon, Newegg, and B&H Photo (and I can't order through Amazon or Newegg from 3rd party sellers). The ASRock board was in stock on Newegg Sunday morning, but isn't any longer. It's not in stock at Amazon either. B&H Photo doesn't carry ASRock boards.

What a pain.

Also, the 1700X doesn't come with a cooler. None of the coolers I wanted to buy (CM Hyper 212 Evo, Cryorig H7, Noctua NH-U12S) come with the AM4 brackets. I'd have to go through some process to request them AFTER my processor/board and cooler arrives.

I'm told that my order has to be in today, so I can either settle for a 1700 to get a stock cooler, and find a different motherboard, or I can just say screw it, and order the Intel build. The fact that the 1700x is on sale right now on Amazon for $350 doesn't make it any easier to settle for the 1700.

 

[scannall]

I appreciate all of the feedback. Sunday morning I had decided on the 1700X and ASRock AB350 Pro4. Unfortunately, I have only 3 vendors to choose from: Amazon, Newegg, and B&H Photo (and I can't order through Amazon or Newegg from 3rd party sellers). The ASRock board was in stock on Newegg Sunday morning, but isn't any longer. It's not in stock at Amazon either. B&H Photo doesn't carry ASRock boards.

What a pain.

Also, the 1700X doesn't come with a cooler. None of the coolers I wanted to buy (CM Hyper 212 Evo, Cryorig H7, Noctua NH-U12S) come with the AM4 brackets. I'd have to go through some process to request them AFTER my processor/board and cooler arrives.

I'm told that my order has to be in today, so I can either settle for a 1700 to get a stock cooler, and find a different motherboard, or I can just say screw it, and order the Intel build. The fact that the 1700x is on sale right now on Amazon for $350 doesn't make it any easier to settle for the 1700.

This cooler is AM4 compatible. And in stock. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103182 And https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813144029 seems decent as well.

 

[Burpo]

If you've settled on the 1700X, get it while on sale.

Newegg has boards now too ..
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...3157762&cm_re=B350_am4-_-13-157-762-_-Product

 

[fleshconsumed]

Also, the 1700X doesn't come with a cooler. None of the coolers I wanted to buy (CM Hyper 212 Evo, Cryorig H7, Noctua NH-U12S) come with the AM4 brackets. I'd have to go through some process to request them AFTER my processor/board and cooler arrives.

I'm a big fan of Scythe heatsinks. You can get Scythe Ninja 4 and AM4 bracket for it from Amazon for $53 total. For full disclosure I will have to note that although the bracket is sold on Amazon, it comes directly from Scythe, and the Ninja 4 is a big heatsink, depending on the motherboard it may block the top most PCIe 1x slot. Having said that, it's a fantastic heatsink for not too much money, and you can get it now.

 

[Atari2600]

Kinda going at a tangent to this thread - we've some Dell Xeon E5-2630s on Skt2011 boards in work (HWE).

I don't rate them at all. For tasks involving much in the way of I/O, I see greater responsiveness and performance out of my 7 year old AM3 1100T at home.

Big file transfers across USB bogs the machine. Single thread FEM runs bogs the machine. Anti-Virus is like running through knee deep tar (to the point it can and does crash applications).

None of these things are easily benchmarked - but are vital to actually using the machine in a real-world environment - if your doing any degree of complex work you will be transferring files, you will be working on multiple applications, you may have background tasks running whilst trying to do something interactively in the foreground. Nothing worse that someone phoning you asking about something - you then try to open up separate files to deal with the query and the machine takes 5 mins to think about it.

It's made me very wary of the assumption that Intel systems which appear better than AMD based on benchmarks in highly controlled environments will actually deliver that in real life.

 

[TemjinGold]

As an excited new Ryzen owner, I'd have to agree to the above.

When I bought my R7 1700 and my B350 motherboard, I plugged everything together and it "just worked." As stated above, the majority of issues you hear about are people trying to run their memory at higher clocks.

However, I am not running an NVME and haven't paid attention to anyone with issues with them (I didn't know these issues existed until you posted.)

The Intel setup will be a solid, safe choice.

NVMe here. Built at launch and zero issues. Use my system for work (I work from home).

 

[Hans Gruber]

I think a 1700 or 1700x is a good choice for the OP. I built a budget build recently and the newest motherboards take serious advantage of the UEFI bios much more so than older motherboards. A basic SSD with read speeds of 500-560MB TLC type stuff loads Win 10 between 5-10 seconds from when you press the power button.

If the OP runs a great deal of photoshop an NVMe drive instead of the boot drive but used as a separate drive for photoshop would make sense considering how fast these new motherboards UEFI features boot computers with standard SSD drives. I do not as of yet have a M.2 NVMe SSD but I cannot imagine even a 3000mb read M.2 would boot faster than 5 or 6 seconds. In my opinion the OP would have serious performance if he used an M.2 NVMe drive for his photoshop exclusive main drive and not as a boot drive.

I am thinking a 240GB Samsung 850 EVO SSD boot drive and a M.2 NVMe workstation drive that is not part of the OS or boot drive. A Seagate Barracuda 4TB drive for storing images that are archived stuff and all of your current work on the M.2 NVMe drive.

Good luck on your build.

 

[DrMrLordX]

The ASRock board was in stock on Newegg Sunday morning, but isn't any longer. It's not in stock at Amazon either. B&H Photo doesn't carry ASRock boards.

What a pain.

Would-be Taichi buyers feel your pain. They really do. I'm a little surprised they ran out of the B350 Pro4, but hey, it is a good board for the price.

Also, the 1700X doesn't come with a cooler. None of the coolers I wanted to buy (CM Hyper 212 Evo, Cryorig H7, Noctua NH-U12S) come with the AM4 brackets. I'd have to go through some process to request them AFTER my processor/board and cooler arrives.

That was one of the reasons why I recommended a step down to the 1700 (though the discount on the 1700X is nice). If you must order adapters, be advised that some of them ship verrrrryyyy slowwwwwlyyyy. The AM4 kit I got from Noctua for my NH-D15S took 14 days to get to me. All I needed was a valid receipt showing a purchase of motherboard and HSF, and they shipped for free. But it's 10 business days to get it from Austria to the US, so . . . yeah.

I'm told that my order has to be in today, so I can either settle for a 1700 to get a stock cooler, and find a different motherboard, or I can just say screw it, and order the Intel build. The fact that the 1700x is on sale right now on Amazon for $350 doesn't make it any easier to settle for the 1700.

Try one of the MSI B350 boards. They aren't bad at all.

 

[jlee]

If this is a proper work machine I would buy a Dell/etc workstation with support.