building HTPC for a friend

[QueBert]

I don't really keep up with HTPC stuff since it's not my realm really. He will use it for movies & music, no gaming at all.

MB - Asus M3A78 Pro, seems awesome. He has a Denon receiver but it doesn't do audio over HDMI. Right now both his optical outs are used. How well do Optical Out splitters work? The MB has HDMI + TOS, there's one model down that has no TOS, but if the splitters aren't a hokey work around I'd probably go with TOS over RCA. I believe the Denon is the 1709. HD playback without a dedicated video card is what I'm after here.

CPU - Athlon X2 5800+ Brisbane, reviews make it seem like it should be able to play 1080p back with onboard video no problem. Would I want to go any lower than this? Also what's a good low profile heatsink that doesn't break the bank ($35 or less)

2 gigs of memory, probably overkill for only playing videos and music but memory is stupid cheap right now. Not sure what OS I'll put on it, since he's not a computer guy at all Linux won't cut it. Probably will go with XP. He'll be using it pretty much 100% for movies & music. With XBMC installed I don't think Vista would matter much over XP.

case - undecided here, there was a link to a case on Daily Tech (I'm almost sure it was DT) sometime in February but I didn't bookmark it though. It was very thin and could fit a slim DVD drive. I cannot find it again. Was black with a bit of silver and about as thick looking as a regular DVD player. It had a small'ish LCD screen with some buttons and a volume nob on it. Slim BluRay drives seem to be EXPENSIVE so maybe one with support for a full sized optical drive would be best. I'm possibly thinking external Blu-Ray since I plan to rip all his movies to the HD. That way i could get the super slim case with a slot load DVD drive. If anyone remembers the one I said I saw on D.T. PLEASE link it I can't find it anywhere cos I suck


Would this box would be good enough for 1080p playback in XBMC?

 

[sivart]

I have found that the sleep mode of Vista works better than the standby mode of XP. However, if you don't put a TV tuner in it, then I guess it doesn't really matter that much.

 

[theAnimal]

I would suggest a 4850e instead of the 5800+. The Arctic Cooling Freezer64 Low Profile is a good cooler.

 

[QueBert]

thanks for the suggestions guys, the 4850e is even a few buck cheaper. Now I just have to find that case. I know somebody on here has seen it. the buttons and volume nob were all together on the right side, it was very thin and I believe the DVD drive went right in the middle, and it took a slim DVD. I looked at every HTPC case on Newegg and spent a good few hours on froogle and googling around. I'm kicking myself for not bookmarking it back when I saw it

 

[BoboKatt]

Here are a few decent HTPC cases I like:

http://www.ncix.com/products/i...acture=NMedia%20System

http://www.ncix.com/products/i...LACK&manufacture=ANTEC

http://www.ncix.com/products/i...acture=NMedia%20System

http://www.ncix.com/products/i...anufacture=Thermaltake

I have the Antec Fusion and a T. Bach... both ara good.

 

[QueBert]

first link is SWEET looks like it's not available in the US though doh! lol, that Antec is pretty sweet, the best I've found so far is the Moneual 312b but it's either so new nobody has it, or it's discontinued. Frozenpcu.com has it and it's been OOS for a week, I emailed moneual with no response.

I might tell him to get the Fusion 350.

 

[QueBert]

BoboKatt thanks for that first link, I couldn't find that model for sale in the US, but it turned me on to the 5000b which is slightly bigger but the same besides that. Went ahead and ordered it for him today. Here is what I ordered


NmediaPC 5000b case
Sparkle 300watt MATX PSU
Asus M3A78 Pro
AMD 4850e
LG Blu-Ray reader/DVD+RW
1TB Samsung
4 gigs DDR2
Vista Home Premium

should be a pretty nice HTPC, just a hair over $500 shipped, not too bad at all.

do have two question, he has a Harmony 890 remote he will be use to control it. Newegg didn't seem to have a receiver for sale without a remote too. If I just want to buy something to make the remote he has work, what should I get? 2nd question, his Denon has 2 optical inputs, do the TOS splitters I see on amazon work well? The reviews for all of them on there seem horrible, one had 102 reviews and a 2 star average. Since his Denon can't do audio over HDMI I'm looking to get the best sound for him. Both his TOSs are in use right now.

 

[Luminair]

Originally posted by: QueBert
I don't really keep up with HTPC stuff since it's not my realm really. He will use it for movies & music, no gaming at all.

buy a popcornhour. it will be cheaper, it will save tens or hundreds of man hours, and it will work better. take it from someone who has done it already

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: Luminair

Originally posted by: QueBert
I don't really keep up with HTPC stuff since it's not my realm really. He will use it for movies & music, no gaming at all.

buy a popcornhour. it will be cheaper, it will save tens or hundreds of man hours, and it will work better. take it from someone who has done it already

He has no PC though, don't Popcornhour's just stream media from a PC easily? NO matter the parts have been ordered. He wants to be able to rip his blu-ray movies too, so a HTPC is pretty much the only solution I could come up with.

 

[nikmabc]

Originally posted by: QueBert Since his Denon can't do audio over HDMI I'm looking to get the best sound for him. Both his TOSs are in use right now.

I am in the middle of researching a similar problem. Without audio over hdmi, there is the problem of using the newer 7.1 hd audio tracks. With Toslink or Coaxial, the audio will be down mixed to 5.1(DD and DTS tracks) or worse, to 2 channel stereo(7.1 pcm). From what I have read, the only option is audio over hdmi or... analog!!!

So, in a way the problem is fixed. If your friend wants true hd audio, he can run 4 miniplugs to rca adapters to his multi-ch inputs on his receiver or get a new receiver that can do audio over hdmi. Nice, huh?

In my search, I've read about those "fake" hdmi receivers that just pass-through the hd audio.

Here are two links.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3411 (Hey, I referenced Anand! Do I get bonus points?)

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/1064

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: nikmabc

Originally posted by: QueBert Since his Denon can't do audio over HDMI I'm looking to get the best sound for him. Both his TOSs are in use right now.

I am in the middle of researching a similar problem. Without audio over hdmi, there is the problem of using the newer 7.1 hd audio tracks. With Toslink or Coaxial, the audio will be down mixed to 5.1(DD and DTS tracks) or worse, to 2 channel stereo(7.1 pcm). From what I have read, the only option is audio over hdmi or... analog!!!

So, in a way the problem is fixed. If your friend wants true hd audio, he can run 4 miniplugs to rca adapters to his multi-ch inputs on his receiver or get a new receiver that can do audio over hdmi. Nice, huh?

In my search, I've read about those "fake" hdmi receivers that just pass-through the hd audio.

Here are two links.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3411 (Hey, I referenced Anand! Do I get bonus points?)

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/1064

hummm miniplug adapters from the on board sound to the receiver, wouldn't this lead to analog sound? When you say multi-chan I'm assuming you mean the RCA's? He's not going to buy a new receiver so that's out of the question. I suppose the suggestion you brought up might be decent though. adapters are cheap and if nothing else I could try it to see how it sounds. My search for aa TOS splitter that isn't crap has been fruitless thus far.

 

[nikmabc]

Yup, analog. You didn't mention anything about a coaxial digital audio jack. Most receivers have one. I just read the specs on the Asus M3A78 Pro and it does have a coaxial output on the backpanel. You could use this to get digital audio, but again, 7.1 hd audio will be downmixed.

Print out the second link and show it to your friend, then convince him that he needs true hd sound and that a new receiver is the best solution and he should give you his old "obsolete" fake hdmi receiver as thanks.

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: nikmabc
Yup, analog. You didn't mention anything about a coaxial digital audio jack. Most receivers have one. I just read the specs on the Asus M3A78 Pro and it does have a coaxial output on the backpanel. You could use this to get digital audio, but again, 7.1 hd audio will be downmixed.

Print out the second link and show it to your friend, then convince him that he needs true hd sound and that a new receiver is the best solution and he should give you his old "obsolete" fake hdmi receiver as thanks.

lol his receiver is about 6 months old, and he paid about $500 for it I believe. No way he'll upgrade regardless of what I show him. About the down mixing it's not a huge deal, I plan to take his Blu-Ray collection and rip them to HD DiVX or something. His current setup is 4.1 (he doesn't have anywhere he wanted to mount his center speaker) so he couldn't tell the difference between 7.1 downmixed and the 4.1 he'll be getting. For AT standards I'm sure his setup sucks, but he loves it. Blu-Rays look awesome on his 52" XBR and the sound is pretty good. He has Mirage speakers? They're a Magnolia (BB) house brand from what I understand. Maybe not a audiophile quality, but good for the price. Iron Man on Blu Ray had his whole living room shaking.

He will probably use this HTPC I'm building more for music than anything, so the sound will be fine there whatever I do. But when he does watch a movie I'd like it to sound as good as possible.


looking at the manual for his model on Denon it has 2 digital coaxial connectors, I'll just hook that up and be done with it. He's \already using both of the optical coaxial for his DTV & Blue-Ray but the digital connector should sound identical - note: I don't know a lot about audio so if I'm wrong opps

 

[nikmabc]

It could be that toslink is just "cooler" than coaxial. You might want to hook up the rca analog connections just to compare it to the digital sound.

This is really about where you want the sound processed. On the pc, a video file is played by a program and maybe a filter. You can have the program or filter prcoess the audio or pass it through---like the Denon with hdmi audio. This goes to the sound card. You have the same choice, pass it through with toslink or coaxial, or process it and output it through the miniplug connectors. Then you have the $500 receiver. Do you want it to act like computer speakers that just play the processed audio from the miniplugs, or do you want to use its superior audio processing unit by way of a digital hookup.

E.g., Windvd is a standalone player that has spdif out or processed audio out. Ffdshow is a filter used with some media players and it has similar options. In my case, my surround receiver broke and I downgraded to a receiver that only has dolby prologic. Prologic II is true surround sound. Prologic takes the left and right channels and simulates a 5.1 sound track. So, I have the filter take the digital audio track, downmix it to a two channel prologic sound, then send that to my sound card with its 3d sound enhancement turned off then to my receiver through a miniplug to two rcas connectors. Where it uses its prologic circuits to make surround sound. If I had a dolby digital receiver, than I could have just use a toslink or coaxial and go with an unprocessed digital setup.

What if the movie has dts instead of dolby? If the receiver can't process dts, you have to move up the chain. In my case, ffdshow will take the dts and convert it to dolby prologic. Most cheap audio cards can't do this, they'll spit out some kind of audio that is usually sent to pc speakers. Ffdshow has the option for prologic II, so for a dolby digital receiver, you can have the sound card send this through the digital outs and use the receiver's processing. Hope this gives you an idea of the audio setup on the computer side.

One last point, get the center channel hooked up! I'm pretty sure I'm right: the center channel is the hardest working speaker in a surround sound set up when playing a movie. I think most receivers have the option to downmix it to the front speakers, but if he's got the speaker, why do it? For music, most receivers have a setting to mute the center and rear for a more conventional set up.