Building My First Computer

[ShaunyR]

I have a budget of about $1200.00 and I'm getting the stuff in late august. I already have my case (Thermaltake Tsunami) and my power supply (AeroPower II+ Modular Power Supply, from frozencpu.com). I also already have my mouse (Logitech MX510), keyboard (Logitech Elite), mousepad (X-Ray Pad), and my headset (Sennheiser PC155, not wanting any speakers). All I need is a monitor and hardware components for under $1200.00. If you have any recommendations or ideas please share them with me. Thanks.

 

[ShaunyR]

Oh and yes I forgot, this PC will be strictly for gaming. Seeing that I'm CAL-Z I will need optimal performance.

 

[Spleeze]

go get yourself a nice socket 939 athlon64 and at least a gig of ram... with that kinda budget and all those components taken care of already, I would even take a look at 2 gigs.... As far as a vid card goes, I would say GeForce 6800GT, but that's my opinion, you might hear otherwise from other people. Some generic CD-RW for 30 bucks and maybe get yourself a WB raptor (the 76gig version if you have extra money, or just grab the 36 if you're running low) and get another 120GIG drive for storage. Thats pretty much all you need. Maybe If you have a nice amount of money left look into grabbing a dual monitor setup, it rocks. If you want a CRT I would suggest a nice big NEC. Sorry I'm not to specific, but that should point you in the right direction. Good luck!

 

[Spleeze]

Just wanted to say, don't bother getting some crazy raid array, The performance gains are nill and you double your chance of losing data.

 

[user1234]

you'll need around 400 for the video card which is the most important component for gaming, i recommend the 6800 gt since it looks like you're aiming for a hign end machine. In my opinion the 6800 ultra may not be worth it because it need a lot of juice and two slots. Also consider the x800xt if you can find it for 450 or less.
So that leaves 800 for the rest - cpu, mobo. memory, hd. Clearly you have to go with athlon64 for gaming, and for hardisk you should do a dual raid 0 setup, I would say at least 2x120Gb, or 2x160. believe me, it fills up fast.

 

[user1234]

let's assume you get the hardisks for 150-200 (recomend hitachi 160Gb sata on special at zzf for ~$90), and the 1Gb memory for 200-250 (OCZ), then we're up to 800 for mem+hd+vidcard, so that leaves 400 for cpu+mobo: so even though 939 is new and better, it might be actually more cost effective to go with socket 754 solution here - 3400+ ($290) and a decent mobo (depends if you want to overclock or not). Or if you go a little above the budget, you can go 939 mobo and 3500+ ($360). see http://anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=2135

 

[ShaunyR]

Yes I could go a little above budget or maybe alot just depending on what were talking about and if the higher price is worth the performance increase. Say I would like to go with socket 939 and stay under 1400, what should I get then?

 

[ShaunyR]

Another thing I'm worried about is installing all of the software and BIOS when I build this PC. I know I can install all the hardware because I have done hardware many times before but I have never built a pc from scratch, just wondering if BIOS/other software would be hard to install. Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it.

 

[ShaunyR]

BUMP

 

[bob4432]

like others have said, go with with athlon 64 3000 or so and 1GB of ram, 2GB would be overkill. get decent ram -> OCZ, Crucial, Kingston and Mushkin are all good and have good support if you need them. don't get the generic ram.

get a decent 7200rpm 8MB 120GB HDD, no reason to spend the extra money on the sata 10k rpm raptors. sure they will help your load speed a a little, but that is all. don't do raid either, as others have stated -> performance increase isn't worth for what you are doing.

spend on the graphics card, like a x800, that is what is important for gaming.

as far as installation, i am assuming you will be using xp. it is bootable, so just configure your bios to boot from cd before the hdd. it is pretty easy from their, and you just follow the prompts.

as far as updating the bios, most new motherboards have a utility that will let you update the bios from within windows, so again, it will be pretty easy.

my rule of thumb is install os, then virus software, xp service pack and then any other drivers for items like sound and so forth.

don't go overbudget, 1200 for what you want is more than enough and remember what is at the top of the line today, will be 2nd best in a couple months at most.

 

[Shenkoa]

I would definetly go with AMD's socket 939 of any flavor. Socket 754 if you get low. If you want to overclock, the P4 C's will OC like a mutha!
Get 2 512's of PC 3200 or above of Corsair, OCZ, Kingston, Geil, Mushkin or Crucial
Get a Radeon 9800 pro 128 which can be had on newegg for $200 = best bang for buck
SB! Audigy 2 ZS
WD Raptor 76

 

[Wahsapa]

like spleeze said, dont do raid, heres why http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2101

it actually could take longer to load levels from a raid, just stick to a single 70 gig raptor 2.

if you can afford it get a a64 3500 socket 939, if you cant get a socket 754 3000, the performance difference isnt that much(when gaming you wouldnt notice the difference). for a motherboard get an asus, abit, gigabtye or an epox, there arnt a lot of 939 mobos so you would have a better choice of 754(which means youd have left over money for extra stuff like...)

high speed ram with low timings, corsair has some ddr400 thats really rebrandid samsung ddr500. ram timings arnt that important when the memory controller is moved to the cpu but these sticks should be able to handle higher overclocks then other. that being said it looks more and more like you should get a 754 and a solid preforming 754 board.

also like everybody else said get a 6800GT(except no substitues).

a64 3000+ $200
mobo $200
gig of ram $300
6800gt $450
raptor 2 $200

its over budget but you should find a lot of that stuff for less then i listed.

edit: im sure someone will link to some how to's about pc builds from scratch. i think mechbgon(sp?) has one. if not just google it, sorry i dont have an linkage off hand.

 

[bob4432]

86 the raptor and get a regular drive. if you can get a 120GB 7200 / 8MB drive for <$100, the performance difference is not worth the extra $100+.

regardless of what drive you have, when playing the game, you will not notice the difference. you will when a level changes, but the time difference will be in seconds, not minutes.

onboard sound should work ok for you.

 

[user1234]

Well I mostly agree with the above (Wahsapa), except that for mobo you can find a good 754 mobo for $100 (MSI K8T Neo is best performing w/o overclocking), and for $200 cpu you could get the a64 3200+ which has 1M L2 cache which helps for multimedia apps and overall system performance (not that much for gaming). Regarding the raid-0 issue, look at it this way - at a minimum it gives you a way to treat two hardisks as a single disk, which is great, and for failure probability - yeah, right, like that ever happens. but in any case you should get an external backup drive and backup your important documents regularly, or go all out and do a full image backup (the best choice here is maxtor oneTouch 80/120/160/250). Going back to HD - I agree the raptor would have better performance than raid-0 (raid does not improve access time, only transfer rate), but you would still need more storage than a single 74GB raptor, and 2 raptors would be too expensive, so I would say 2x160 GB 7200 rpm HDs (only buy SATA, PATA is dead and not compatibe with most raid controllers) for $200 is better than 1 74 GB 10K rpm raptor for $200.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: user1234
Well I mostly agree with the above (Wahsapa), except that for mobo you can find a good 754 mobo for $100 (MSI K8T Neo is best performing w/o overclocking), and for $200 cpu you could get the a64 3200+ which has 1M L2 cache which helps for multimedia apps and overall system performance (not that much for gaming). Regarding the raid-0 issue, look at it this way - at a minimum it gives you a way to treat two hardisks as a single disk, which is great, and for failure probability - yeah, right, like that ever happens. but in any case you should get an external backup drive and backup your important documents regularly, or go all out and do a full image backup (the best choice here is maxtor oneTouch 80/120/160/250). Going back to HD - I agree the raptor would have better performance than raid-0 (raid does not improve access time, only transfer rate), but you would still need more storage than a single 74GB raptor, and 2 raptors would be too expensive, so I would say 2x160 GB 7200 rpm HDs (only buy SATA, PATA is dead and not compatibe with most raid controllers) for $200 is better than 1 74 GB 10K rpm raptor for $200.

$100 for a board sounds correct.

again, his main interest is gaming. having a fast hdd setup will not help gaming except for load times, which will not be much more with a single 7200 rpm drive. hell, even a machine with a 5400 rpm drive would play the games the same as a machine with 2xraptors in a striping raid with all other hardware being the same, with the exception of load times.

the failure probability - > like that does happen, drives do fail and if you are in striping, then if one dies, the data is gone.

pata is not dead and any card that is pata compatable is ok. i agree that most motherboards have built in sata raid controllers and not pata raid controllers now, but pata is far from dead.

 

[user1234]

One more word about raid-0, I guess you could say I don't agree with the AT article shown, and I'm not alone. Maximum-PC which is the single most influential magazine on performance PCs (tip: read the last 3 issues to get some ideas) clearly says you should use raid-0 when building a new pc. And as a matter of fact, every high end pc you could buy from the boutique makers (voodoo, falcon, monarch) - the pc builders which use the most exotic parts to build the most extreme machines with sick overclocks (which cost ~$4K), always use raid-0 configuration. And while I haven't personally compared raid-0 to non-raid-0 config, I can say my raid-0 config feels blazing fast (2x160 7200rpm SerialATA Hitachi), compared to my previous single 120 Gb 7200rpm PATA maxtor.

 

[bob4432]

honestly, you should be using scsi 15krpm u320/u160 drives in a striping raid for max performance. this will max out a 32bit pci bus. those computer makers just o/c their machines and put a cool paint job on, that is it. they are extremely overpriced machines. for $4000 you should get 15k rpm u320 scsi raid!!!!

my personal opinion is that maximum-pc is not the most influential mag for performance pcs, you need to do the research yourself and read all different aspects, not just what the max pc has to say.

 

[sharq]

Raid is going to have very negligible affect on gaming performance unless you plan to have hundreds of games and/or programs. Not sure why some are pushing raid. Plus, Maximum PC is not an authority or "most influential magazine" by even a long shot.
SCSI is nice for the speed, but there is the obvious cost issue.

My recommendation would be 6800GT, AMD 64bit cpu, 1gb of ram, and a 8mb cache 7200rpm 80gb+ HD.

 

[user1234]

I was just looking at the maximum pc (minimum bs) july issue and was reminded that you also need a sound card - this is easy, the only choice here for great 24-bit sound is soundblaster audigy-2 ZS ($85). Bob, I agree that the boutique pc builders over-price their stuff like crazy, I was just giving an example why everyone which is interested in maximizing performance choose 2x raid-0. Even here, it's the best price/performance option of the 3 options:

(a) 1 74 GB Raptor 10Krpm = $160
(b) 1 250 Gb Hitachi 7200rpm = $185
(c) 2x160 Gb Hitachi 7200 rpm = 2*$95 = $190

option (a) is fastest, but the storage is insufficient (heck, average game installed today is ~5GB). Option (b) is clearly inferior to option (c) in performance and storage space. Make your own decision. One more word about SATA - all new high-end PCs today come only with SATA, not PATA.

 

[bob4432]

my question is pretty basic, why spend the money on raid when all he wants is a kick ass gaming machine? he is not looking to build the fastest machine possible, i would then also be pushing raid(scsi), but the machine is for kick ass gaming and hdd access/xfer times are not going to have any impact except for load times.

he needs to spend his money on the graphics card and can get a slower cpu if needed. take a 2800 and 3200 a64 and with the same graphics card the differences will not be that much. many times reviewers build graphs that look like the differences are large, but when you read the numbers we are usually talking less than 10fps, and at 70, who can tell besides a benchmark.

i want this new builder to enjoy his build but not to break the bank. i personally think $1200 is up there pretty high for the equipment he needs. i can see spending money on the graphics card because these new cards are not going to come down very much soon.

i am not trying to be a dick and please don't take it personally, but i looked at motherboards over at newegg, and they all seem to have pata controllers on them and most have sata too. i am not sure where you are getting you info from but it is not entirely accurate. not all have pata raid controllers, but some have sata controllers, but not raid.

 

[user1234]

Let me add that you could probably live happily with a ~80 GB disk (see option a above) if you (1) don't have too many mp3 files, digital photos, and video files (2) don't mind uninstalling and re-installing stuff when space gets tight (3) don't mind defragging your disk every couple of days. But seriously, if you're building a new high end pc (even if it's a little short of "dream machine" - for that go with fx-53 cpu for $800), you need at least 160GB of storage, and preferably 250GB or more (see option c above).

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: user1234
Let me add that you could probably live happily with a ~80 GB disk (see option a above) if you (1) don't have too many mp3 files, digital photos, and video files (2) don't mind uninstalling and re-installing stuff when space gets tight (3) don't mind defragging your disk every couple of days. But seriously, if you're building a new high end pc (even if it's a little short of "dream machine" - for that go with fx-53 cpu for $800), you need at least 160GB of storage, and preferably 250GB or more (see option c above).

get diskeeper

 

[sharq]

He can always add a second HD when it is required. HD deals are always coming around, right now I would suggest he just look for one hd that will give him good performance. When/if space starts becoming an issue, check hot deals.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: sharq
He can always add a second HD when it is required. HD deals are always coming around, right now I would suggest he just look for one hd that will give him good performance. When/if space starts becoming an issue, check hot deals.

i have to agree with sharq about this and his comment a couple up.

 

[user1234]

In summary, the 754 socket system would be:

CPU: a64 3200+ (754) $200
Mobo: MSI K8T Neo $90
RAM: 1GB OCZ $250
HD: 160 GB Hitachi SATA 7200rpm $95 (I still recommend to double that in raid-0 2x arrary)
AUDIO: SB Audigy2 ZS $85
VIDEO: Nvidia 6800 GT $400

Total: $1120 not including shipping and tax

Possible extras: add $95 for second HD, add ~$200 for socket 939 mobo+cpu