Building System for My Mother-In-Law - OH NO....

[(M)]

I have always tried to build high-spec systems. For myself, a super-stable PIII-933/BX setup for audio/video production. For my father, a Cadillac "CD-burner for dummies" setup with SCSI & ATA100.

Now, I have to build one for my mother-in-law. Requirements:

1) - Super-stable (I'm her tech support **shudder**).
2) - Super-cheap (She doesn't have much to spend).
3) - "Does the Internet Fast" - I have her connected to a pretty decent 56K ISP.
4) - "Plays those Nintendo games" - I made the mistake of showing her my collection of emulators (she likes SNES).
5) - "Plays those MP3 thingies" - she doesn't have a clue what a MP3 is.
6) - Extra-Super-Stable (did I mention that I am her tech support?)

Here's what I've found:
Epox KL-133M motherboard w/on-board sound & S3 graphics - $74
AMD Duron 800 - $55 (definitely will NOT try to overclock)
128mb no-name PC133 SDRAM - $22
Diamond Sportster 56K modem - $25 (does it really make a difference?)
Cheepo ATX Case w/250 watt p/s - $35 (are Durons picky about power supplies?)
Maxtor 20g ATA66 H/D - $80

She want's to keep using her Packard Bell 14" monitor, keyboard & speakers that she bought 7 years ago...shouldn't be a problem (I guess).

Anyone care to comment on this Odyssey I am about to embark on?

Thanks,
(M)

 

[MichaelD]

...All Rise. Let us now say a prayer for our Dearly Departed Brother M, who emabarked on a quest of self-inflicted agony, and got lost in the void...how we will miss him. LOL! Mother-in-law...(the song...old song)

I applaud you for keeping the peace, and saying "yes dear, I'd just LOVE to build your Mom a computer!" Yeah, right. I'd rather have root canal with no anesthetia with a hangover on a Monday morning than have any interaction w/my Mother In Outlaw, but anyway, that's how you ensure you're not couch-bound for the next month or so. Sigh..that's the way the Marriage Cookie crumbles. Good on you though.

System specs; I'd change a few things.

1. With good memory so cheap, get good memory. 128mb of Crucial is like $50, shipped. Get it. Durons/Athlons are picky about memory. Remember, you are her tech support.

2. Get a 300w power supply with a decent case. You'd most probably be fine with a 250w noname case/ps, but why chance it? I've built two systems with the Antech KS282/P303X case/ps combo. One's a 1GHz Tbird the other an 850 TBird with no probs to date.

What OS RU gonna use? She'd be fine with Win98SE or Millenium. Nah, let's get her W2K server! Joke. Good luck. Call us from the hospital/courthouse and let us know how it goes! Joke!

 

[ndee]

ROFLMAO @(M) and MichaelD

that was a good laugh

But yeah, get some good quality RAM.

 

[bigd480]

i'm abt to build a very similar system for g/f's sister...

i thought i might go w/ a PCCHIPS board but then had second thoughts (i will also be tech support)... ppl have recommended that epox board to me as well...

Keep in mind the Duron 750 is $20 cheaper...

For the modem, the brands on cheap ones don't matter much, pick one w/ Lucent chipset or one that you know works well with that ISP...

I've only built intel systems so i am also wondering if a Duron will be fine in small case with just a regular HSF and a cheap PS...

 

[limsandy]

I strongly suggest you AGAINST Epox mainboards. Lately, I have been hearing that Epox mainboards causes problems to many users. Install Windows 2000. You might find it impossible to use the old monitor as 7 years ago, the standard of monitor might be different from today's. Good luck.

 

[bigd480]

dp

 

[Sephy]

Michael is on track with the memory, although 128mb of PC133 is only $30

 

[(M)]

Thanks for the input...Michael, If you like, I'll do your root canal if you build/support my m-i-l's computer???

Point taken on the memory. The good stuff is pretty cheap these days. I don't know about the 300W p/s - I'm not going to be overclocking or burning CD's or anything. 250W should be sufficient.

I will probably install Windows ME. 2000 may be a little too rigid for what we are trying to do here.

Is cooling an issue on Durons?

 

[wyvrn]

First repeat after me:

I will never build a computer for family or friends again.

But if you end up doing it anyway, get good memory and a good power supply, these are the components that can cause the most problems. With that setup a 250W should be fine, just make sure it is a quality one (no super-cheapie cases!). Would recommend that she eventually upgrade that monitor, it may be nearing its end. Of course since you built her new computer, she is going to call you when the decade old monitor goes bad

 

[MichaelD]

Oh yeah, one other thing; (LOL) she'll be calling you when email goes down, and it's AOL's fault (go figure). She'll say

"the computer I trusted you to build and gave you my money in good faith so you could buy the good stuff so it wouldn't ever break and I would never ever have a single problem because you promosed me that "it's a good computer" is broken."

And she'll say it ALL w/o breathing too! :frown:

One other thing. When her ancient 14" monitor that will only do 640 x 480 @32Hz breaks, it will be "the computer that you built's" fault. Shoot yourself now. It's quicker. Joke. Just kidding.

I built a pc for my GF a couple of months ago. She likes to mess with The Control Panel. She changes things arbitrarilly just to see what happens. Then, when it won't boot or load or the screen is diagonal....it's the computer's fault....and who built it? Dum-da-dum-dum-daaaaaaaa! We are just giving you crap because we can! Good luck.

 

[ElFenix]

with intel systems a 250, even 200 watt PS is fine. the processor puts out maybe 20 watts. but a duron... those eat like 50 watts easily. so both power supply and cooling is an issue. bang for buck cooling is probably the $10 thermaltake volcano 2. you could get away with using most $10 fans on the duron, though. as for the power supply... a low wattage power supply can cause random lockups on an AMD system. a good quality 250 watt one in a case will run $60 or $70 anyway, why not spend the extra $5 and get a case with a good 300 watt just to be safe? the antec sx830 and sx1030 would probably be more appealing aesthetically as well.

 

[PELarson]

[*]Two words - Dell refurbished

 

[(M)]

I hear you on the monitor. But tech support on that will be easy - BUY A NEW ONE. I don't want to hit her with too much cost up-front. A month from now (once she uses the new box), she will want a new monitor anyway.



<< &quot;the computer I trusted you to build and gave you my money in good faith so you could buy the good stuff so it wouldn't ever break and I would never ever have a single problem because you promosed me that &quot;it's a good computer&quot; is broken.&quot; >>



I am currently having to support her Packard Bell 486-66 (her 5 year service plan ran out a couple of years ago). Since I work on a mainframe at work, she thinks that somehow I represent the entire computer industry and can fix anything built with an IC. This Packard Bell is a fvcking nightmare! No upgradeability and the (soldiered on) CMOS battery is dying. I'm having to walk her through BIOS setups over the phone - ANYTHING WOULD BE BETTER.

I'll put in an extra case fan to help with cooling.

Any other motherboard suggestions? I would like to stay with on-board graphics to minimize cost / compatibility problems. 3D performance is definitely not an issue.

Thanks to all!

 

[(M)]

Point taken on the ps.

Maybe a Celeron system would be better (from my point of view).

 

[MichaelD]

Ehhhhhhh! Wrong answer! Celeries are dead. (No disrespect for anyone here...dons flameproof suit) Durons perform better, are faster and have a future. No Celerons for this new pc!

 

[(M)]

No doubt, a Duron would be better for you or me - but, if a Celeron is more forgiving on the power supply &amp; cooling (and is arguably more stable), it may be a good solution.

Please - no Intel vs AMD debate. This has nothing to do with raw speed or upgradeability. By the time this thing is too slow for her needs, the Pentium 6's will be quite affordable.

Just a suggestion...

 

[AmigaMan]

As a current member of the &quot;I hate myself because my mother in law think I'm her tech support cuz I built her a computer&quot; club I would STRONGLY endorse what PELarson said, &quot;GET HER A REFURB DELL&quot;. Let them handle the tech support. If you don't care about price then buy a new one. They're pretty much reliable, not the best for speed but if she's using a 14&quot; monitor then I really don't think that's an issue. Plus their free onsite support for a year or three (can't remember what it is for refurbs) is an added bonus.

 

[CQuinn]

(M) my sympathies, I have to do the same for my mother, although my
sister bought her an EMachines box, so I had to deal with a lot of
their preconfigured c--p as well.

In reverse order (sortof)
(this is assuming money is an object, and you are looking for the
absolute minimum as the low ball solution)



<< AMD Duron 800 - $55 (definitely will NOT try to overclock) >>



You might even consider a slight underclock if there is any chance
of clearing up instablilty/ heat issues by doing so.
Where is she planning on keeping it, and how much time are you planning to
spend teaching her the importance of proper shutdowns and maintenance?



<< 128mb no-name PC133 SDRAM - $22 >>



Should be alright, I'd assume you are not going for any fancy BIOS tweaks
to up the memory performance. Be sure to tweak the Cache and Swap file
settings to balance speed with the possiblity that she will have a lot of
apps open at once.



<< Diamond Sportster 56K modem - $25 (does it really make a difference?) >>



Yes and no, As long as her phone lines cooperate, any modem should perform
well.



<< Cheepo ATX Case w/250 watt p/s - $35 (are Durons picky about power supplies?) >>



*Not speaking from wide experience* A Duron is still an Athlon, so good and
stable power is still and issue. For a basic email and web surfing system,
230w should be good, but check that it is an AMD approved PS.

Does she have a decent surge protector (or better a UPS) to go with it?



<< Maxtor 20g ATA66 H/D - $80 >>



There are a half dozen Maxtor models on the market that come in 20G configurations.
Normally I would check the exact model for best performance,
but for this it shouldn't matter as much.

Be sure to partition it for her beforehand, with at least a separate drive set
up for backups , system tools , driver updates, etc... it will make the
&quot;tech support&quot; job a little easier during house calls. Also, give her easy
desktop folders to get to the games and MP3s. Make sure she can get to
Solitaire if nothing else.

You didn't mention what OS was going on it. 98SE or ME? Be prepard to
tweak it first off for both good performance and stability. That will
help you avoid a lot of minor tech calls. Make sure you know the OS
forwards and backwards, because you will not only have to deal with
her breaking it in ways you did not think was possible, but you will
also have to translate her explanations into terms that actually
relate to the problem in the system, and not just the error messages
she will be getting from everything else she tries.

(Since she has a Packard-Hell, you are probably used to that anyway)

It sounds like she is already familiar with computers, so you might avoid
a few of the dumb newbie questions too.



<< 1) - Super-stable (I'm her tech support **shudder**). >>



No matter how stable you think you made the system, you will still have
to deal with PEBKAC issues. (Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair).
I assume she lives close enough for you to visit and set up the system?
If so, try to take a little time (as much as you can stand) to watch her
using the computer. If you study her user habits you might be able to
head off some future problems just by &quot;recommending&quot; a few ways of
doing things that she might not be aware of.



<< 2) - Super-cheap (She doesn't have much to spend). >>



Super-cheap often leads to trouble itself. Just make sure you always know
where to get new drivers / troubleshooting info, just in case



<< 3) - &quot;Does the Internet Fast&quot; - I have her connected to a pretty decent 56K ISP. >>



Check the phone lines if you can for crosstalk &amp; static (just lift a reciever and
see if you hear anything other than the dial tone). See if you have some good
telephone cable to hook into it. If she does have a surge protector, see if it
provides jacks for phone passthru.
Does she have a separate line for the computer?




<< 4) - &quot;Plays those Nintendo games&quot; - I made the mistake of showing her my collection of emulators (she likes SNES). >>



So you will have to set up a special folder/partition with those for her to get to.
With easy to use shortcuts for all her preferred games.

(keep a separate backup at home in case she hoses it, and you won't have to re-setup
all the shorcuts again)



<< 5) - &quot;Plays those MP3 thingies&quot; - she doesn't have a clue what a MP3 is. >>



Another special folder/partition to those.

How old is she? A few of my Senior Citizen friends like to find sites that have
recordings of old radio shows they can play back for fun.



<< 6) - Extra-Super-Stable (did I mention that I am her tech support?) >>



Set aside time on at least one day a week where she can always get in touch
with you. That way you can sneak out the rest of the time and she can't complain
as much if she can't reach you. Oh, she'll still complain, but you can always
say back &quot;But you know I always have time for you on Tuesdays&quot;.

 

[EvanFerguson]

don't f this one up

 

[orphq]

I built a similar system for my dad with a Duron 750. Went with a standard noname case with a 300w power supply. After numberous lockups and switching cards in the PCI slots I finally asked here in this forum, a few came right back with ck the power supply. Since it was new i still wasn't conviced ...but nothing else work either. I finally bit the bullet and ordered a Antec 303 from buy.com (41 bucks). I just installed it last night and all apears to be well.
Hope this helps,
orphq

 

[bigd480]

looking at all the PS issues with Durons, and price being the main factor, why not just get an Intel-chipset all-in-one board with a celeron? You can use pc100 memory, a cheap case and PS, and cheap cooling...

 

[wyvrn]

Duron's do not require as much power as an Athlon, so you are not going to have to use a 300W PS or anything. I believe with TeakUI you can disable a lot of control panel stuff so she cannot screw it up

 

[bigd480]

anyone know minimum power reqs for a duron system w/ just a burner and one HD?

 

[(M)]

Sound advice from all. Always a plethora of real-world experience from the Anandtech BBS.

If I go with the Duron, I will get one of the Antec cases mentioned &amp; some decent SDRAM.

Amigaman, no matter what I get her (Dell, Compaq...) I will be her first call for support. I would prefer to know the guts of this box inside-out.

CQuinn, You sound like a seasoned expert in building systems for non-technical people. You bring good advice.

She lives far enough away that most of the time I get phone calls. Sometimes she just shows up with the box in her hand and says &quot;it's broke...it's your fault COMPUTERMAN!...fix it!&quot;.

I have never gotten a call from my father because something didn't work. It's always &quot;how do I...?&quot; questions. I built his computer 18 months ago (PIII - Asus P3B-F). With him, money was no object though &amp; I was able to select good components. This one kinda scares me. I haven't built an AMD system since my son's K6-450 (Ali V) &amp; it was a bitch to get everything working in it.

Thanks to everyone for your input!