Bullying in the NFL

[cubby1223]

The commentary across the NFL is so asinine...

"What happens in the locker-room stays in the locker-room" - last time I checked, Las Vegas was not their locker room, fancy restaurants were not their locker-room, voice mail systems were not their locker-room.

"He needs to man-up, deal with it like a man, if he has a problem go punch him in the face. I'd go down swinging but at least I'd be a man." - is he just a man doing manly things when he returns to solve these issues of manliness with a gun?



But, most of those commenting are millionaires, they don't have to play by the same rules of decency and respect as the rest of us do. The guys who earn the largest salaries in the NFL are often the guys who inflict the most injuries on the other team.

Why I have a very difficult time watching hockey, even with the Blackhawks winning it all - the sport is too often fighter thugs whacking each other, and only occasionally taking a shot with the puck...

 

[Ban Bot]

Everyone who is saying Martin should have punched Incognito: you are an idiot. Ever hear of Aaron Hernandez? You have no clue what is real, and not, from Incognito. He obvious has temper issues and a pop to the mouth may have escallated it to very, very bad places. People don't look back on Bill Romanoski breaking some guys eye as a "good" thing.

Proof you ask? Here is why NFL players should not punch another NFL player. You never know where the escallation will end. (TLDR: Michael Irvin stabbed a teammate with scissors after being punched.)

Incognito has a long history of documented violence and not knowing where the "line" is. Sexual assault at a MIA Dolphin team sponsored golf tournament?

Yeah, but this is all Martin's fault. Martin had no reason to believe Incognito may actually follow through on his sexual or physical threats. Martin should have just manned up and been so much tougher--this is a warriors game, he obviously soft. This is all normal and acceptable. As we all know Snitches get Stitches, right?

The most recent statement by Martin's attorny, concerning Martin's effort to befriend his tormentors to win them over, not only failed but is also now being used against him. The MIA situation seems so absolutely screwed up--Coaches and GM wanting to toughen up a player and endoring getting into a fight, a player with a violent past with sexual deviancy authorized to "nurture" Martin, and an entire lockeroom, knowledgable of Incognito's past, laughing at racial/violent/sexual messages, etc. Martin obviously had NO support in the entire MIA organization. And to top it all off, Martin trying to defuse the situation by being a friend (a) has idiots like their QB saying theyr were best friends and (b) idiot posters using this against him is beyond asinine.

Martin may not have done everything correct, and seems to struggle on the field, but I am not sure Martin had much of a chance unless he "joined the ol' boys club" of dubachery that MIA obviously embraces. What a pathetic organization.

 

[smackababy]

As more is coming out, and I hear / read more from former players, I think this is going to be bad for football. I do believe Martin was bullied, but I also believe a lot of what normally goes on in the rookie hazing is good for team building. Anyone that has ever been on a team, or in any group of men, has to know this. The new guy has to be a part of the group, and earn his place. All the vets had to do the rookie performance and now get to watch. The rookies will get to do that as well. Paying for vet dinners seem to run like $5,000, which is change for anyone in the NFL. Dez Bryant's case was a bit different because he refused to carry pads just prior to that and then made up for it by paying a large amount (probably taking the entire burden himself, and letting the other rookies get off without paying).

I think Martin viewed himself as an outsider just as much, if not more, than others viewed him. The problem lies in that Incognito (and the rest of his team, plus Dolphin staff) failed to realize that even if Martin was getting "equal" treatment in the hazing, he wasn't taking it the same as other players were. I don't blame Martin for leaving, because I am sure that was the only reasonable option he could find at the time.

Sadly, no matter what happens to Incognito and the Dolphins organization as a whole, I think Martin will be shunned by teams. He isn't a super star on the field and has shown the locker room culture might not be for him. Teams might not be receptive, because their locker room culture might conflict with his personality. It isn't that he is weird, just the he doesn't respond to what football is about: violence and controlled aggression.

 

[Ban Bot]

I do believe Martin was bullied, but I also believe a lot of what normally goes on in the rookie hazing is good for team building. Anyone that has ever been on a team, or in any group of men, has to know this. The new guy has to be a part of the group, and earn his place.

Our Marines are infinately more men, tough, hard, and courageous than anyone in an NFL locker room and exhibit exceptional teamwork, brotherhood, and unity without hazing.

Hazing is not an essential element of team building.

"Marines coming up in the Corps all too often have the perception that going through rituals makes you hard," said Vanfonda. "Being a hard Marine is nothing more than being well rounded. You don't have to be the base high-shooter or the best at PT to be a Marine, but you should touch all bases. That's what makes a hard Marine."

Marine Corps Order 1700.28, which defines hazing and the Marine Corps' intent on the issue, states that "no Marine ... may engage in hazing or consent to acts of hazing being committed upon them."

According to Vanfonda, asking to have a hazing ritual performed on you "doesn't make you hard, it makes you stupid."

 

[Atomic Playboy]

It's amazing the scandals that the NFL has been hit with over the course of the last year. You have the concussion / CTE issue, and the new evidence coming out about how football is shortening lifespans, which culminated in hundreds of millions of dollars the NFL agreed to pay to former players. You have the related suicide issue, most notably Junior Seau and the Chiefs player who shot himself in front of the stadium. You have Aaron Hernandez's murder charge and the related statistics that show that NFL players get arrested at a much higher rate than athletes in any other sport. Now you've got the Incognito hazing scandal and the talks about toughness and manliness and whatnot... The last year has been pretty bad for the NFL in terms of controversy. When it was just concussions, I didn't think too much of it. But with everything else coming together in a perfect tide of "Holy Jesus Christmas, this is getting out of hand," I could see seriousl problems for the NFL within the next couple decades. Football is too firmly entrenched to go anywhere overnight, but in 20-30 years, if all this continues? The NFL might cease to exist. Madness.

 

[BudAshes]

I'm not sure how threatening to kill someone and calling them a half-****** piece of shit constitutes as hazing. This guys is also not a rookie, so that argument is completely null anyway.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

It's amazing the scandals that the NFL has been hit with over the course of the last year. You have the concussion / CTE issue, and the new evidence coming out about how football is shortening lifespans, which culminated in hundreds of millions of dollars the NFL agreed to pay to former players. You have the related suicide issue, most notably Junior Seau and the Chiefs player who shot himself in front of the stadium. You have Aaron Hernandez's murder charge and the related statistics that show that NFL players get arrested at a much higher rate than athletes in any other sport. Now you've got the Incognito hazing scandal and the talks about toughness and manliness and whatnot... The last year has been pretty bad for the NFL in terms of controversy. When it was just concussions, I didn't think too much of it. But with everything else coming together in a perfect tide of "Holy Jesus Christmas, this is getting out of hand," I could see seriousl problems for the NFL within the next couple decades. Football is too firmly entrenched to go anywhere overnight, but in 20-30 years, if all this continues? The NFL might cease to exist. Madness.

crazy when you lay it all out like that

 

[smackababy]

Our Marines are infinately more men, tough, hard, and courageous than anyone in an NFL locker room and exhibit exceptional teamwork, brotherhood, and unity without hazing.

Hazing is not an essential element of team building.

Hazing can easily be taken too far, which is why the Marines (and every other branch) had to enact rules against it. Blanket parties and such were going too far. In my 4 years in the military, I cannot think of a single month with a promotion there was not a gauntlet. You didn't have to participate, you didn't have to walk it, but every single enlisted member that put on another stripe did. Why? Because, contrary to popular belief, participating in something with the unit (even if you are the one getting hit) brings everyone together. And it wasn't like they were punched in the arm and then left. They were also congratulated for their achievement.

There was also plenty of what could be considered "locker room banter" among all of us that worked together. We poked fun at each other, and everyone did it. The lower ranks, the NCOs, and even the SNCOs. Now, nobody took it as far as something Incognito did, because that is completely over the line. But, jesting about things was something that happened. Also, we recognized when someone wasn't okay with certain things being joked about. There was one particularly religious guy who was okay with pretty much anything, except being called gay. That was easily identified and off limits.

There were plenty of things "rookies" had to do. Clean the entire building every Friday. Any time something had to be moved, the lower your rank, the more likely you were to be moving it. All kinds of stuff that could easily be considered hazing was just part of the job. And it helped build a cohesive unit.

Let's not even forget the combat dining in stuff that goes on. That is nothing BUT hazing, for the purpose of fun. And it is.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

jon martin is a fuggin pussie. does anyone really think he seriously believed that incognito was going to rape his sister, jizz in his moms face and then murder him? gimme a break. martin should never be allowed in the nfl again after deserting his team

 

[Dari]

Sorry but the Dolphins are not "one of the US's most famous and historic sporting names".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24751209

 

[TheFamilyMan]

Anyone see the Incognito interview this weekend? Seems lots of stuff is coming out that isn't adding up to reflect Martin's version of the "truth".

More and more, it's looking like this kid has some sort of manic-depressive or other mental issue and just snapped and left the team/culture of NFL. In doing so, many more questions were asked than he was prepared to answer and he's ended up concocting this "victim" story. His family (who are a bunch of lawyers from what I understand) as well as his hired law firm have washed and laundered the details and created the media storm that will end up eating some relatively innocent people alive. I think we're going to see this thing be exposed for what it was but the sacrificial lamb will still be required and the media and lawyers won't let it be Martin...it will end up being Incognito, Dolphins coaches/coaching staff, Miami organization, and NFL...

 

[purbeast0]

yeah, if the media got a hold of some texts that i had between some of my friends, they would think we hate eachother too. but we're just busting each others balls and messing around about everything.

the fact that these guys shared over 1100 texts proves that these guys were buddies and close. you don't text someone 1100 times that you are not close with.

this martin guy is a piece of shit.

 

[DrunkenSano]

Not surprised by the outcome so far, people always jump to conclusions on things they don't understand. Media doesn't help by building things up and portraying it in the worse possible way to boost their ratings as much as possible instead of worrying about whether they are reporting accurately or not.

 

[MotionMan]

Regardless of your opinion of "hazing" in the NFL, or whether Martin is a pussy, it should not be lost in all of this that Incognito is a total jerk and it does surprise me one bit that he is face of hazing in the NFL.

Also, if you believe any part of Incognito's story that cannot be verified by independent (i.e. non-teammate) sources, you probably believed Suh when he said that he was just trying to get his balance a couple Thanksgivings ago.

MotionMan

 

[TheFamilyMan]

Not surprised by the outcome so far, people always jump to conclusions on things they don't understand. Media doesn't help by taking hook, line, and sinker the shitbag story distributed and perpetuated by media-influencing lawyers and then building things up and portraying it in the worse possible way to boost their ratings as much as possible instead of worrying about whether they are reporting accurately or not.

ftfy

 

[rudeguy]

Regardless of your opinion of "hazing" in the NFL, or whether Martin is a pussy, it should not be lost in all of this that Incognito is a total jerk and it does surprise me one bit that he is face of hazing in the NFL.

Also, if you believe any part of Incognito's story that cannot be verified by independent (i.e. non-teammate) sources, you probably believed Suh when he said that he was just trying to get his balance a couple Thanksgivings ago.

MotionMan

Icognito's neck is bigger than his head.

You cannot trust anyone whose neck is bigger than their head.

 

[vi edit]

I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for it to be reported that Martin was gay and this is now about sexual orientation and its bigotry in the NFL. That's about the only other thing this circus is missing.

 

[Svnla]

Latest news: more than meet the eyes, the texts between Incognito and Martin = http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...o-finally-surface/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

 

[MotionMan]

Latest news: more than meet the eyes, the texts between Incognito and Martin = http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...o-finally-surface/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

Saw this earlier. It certainly puts a different twist on things.

BTW, the reference to drugs may be the biggest thing to come out of this.

MotionMan

 

[smackababy]

I disagree with the article implying that Incognito didn't act inappropriately, because he did. The voice message, regardless of context, is inappropriate in a professional environment. Even if it was a joke, it still isn't right. I think the media did blow this way out of proportion though and it looks like Martin and Incognito were actually friends.

Saw this earlier. It certainly puts a different twist on things.

BTW, the reference to drugs may be the biggest thing to come out of this.

MotionMan

Yeah, the drug thing is pretty big. There might be another investigation now.

 

[UglyCasanova]

I still think that kind of behavior in a workplace is irresponsible and the employer needs to get a handle on it or face up, but I did see this earlier and it does shed a new light on things.

 

[IAteYourMother]

lol @ no hazing in the Marines

 

[purbeast0]

I disagree with the article implying that Incognito didn't act inappropriately, because he did. The voice message, regardless of context, is inappropriate in a professional environment. Even if it was a joke, it still isn't right. I think the media did blow this way out of proportion though and it looks like Martin and Incognito were actually friends.


Yeah, the drug thing is pretty big. There might be another investigation now.

i dunno, my coworkers and i have said some things to eachother plenty of times that if people didn't know us would think we hate eachother. i don't have any problem with guys busting eachother balls if both parties involved are okay with it.

EDIT:

wow just read a lot of the text message transcript. sounds like the whole thing is just a buncha bullshit. their conversations sound like any conversation 2 buddies would have, talking about chicks and going out, while busting balls in between.

 

[Imported]

Wells report is out. http://deadspin.com/investigation-finds-pattern-of-harassment-in-miami-1522833437

 

[Miramonti]

It shreds Incognito, according to espn's snippets.

Wells says his inquiry found Martin was taunted and ridiculed almost daily. After Martin left the team in October, Incognito boasted about "breaking Jmart" in a notebook the linemen used to tally fines and bonuses among themselves. When the investigation began, Incognito asked another player to destroy the book, but investigators obtained it. ...

The other harassed player was "subjected to homophobic name-calling and improper physical touching," while the assistant trainer, who was born in Japan, was subjected to racial slurs....

It was not difficult to conclude that the assistant trainer and Player A were harassed, but the questions raised in Martin's case were more complex, nuanced and difficult...

The report said Pouncey and Jerry followed Incognito's lead.

"To a great extent, Incognito dictated the culture," the report said. "We doubt that matters would have gotten so out of hand had Incognito not set a tone on the offensive line that made extremely vulgar taunting a typical form of communication."

Altho also has this:

Although Wells concluded that Martin was abused by three teammates, he qualified some of the assertions in Martin's account.

Evaluating Martin's claims was difficult, "given his mental health issues, his possible heightened sensitivity to insults and his unusual, 'bipolar' friendship with Incognito," the report said.

"Nonetheless, we ultimately concluded that Martin was indeed harassed by Incognito, who can fairly be described as the main instigator."