seems kind of messed up for a grown man and former NFL player to call out a bunch of high schoolers as pussies
Did anyone hear Bald Bryan talk about this on the Carolla show. He coached at the the High School where Martin played and said the players were all super pussies.
Icognito still sounds like a major dick, but just interesting to hear some of the other stuff surrounding this.
KT
Not only does it build character, if done correctly, it also strengthens the bonds in the team. The result usually ends up being a 'You are now officially one of us', folding them into the tight knit group.
seems kind of messed up for a grown man and former NFL player to call out a bunch of high schoolers as pussies
I heard that Martin was pretty much isolated from the rest of his teammates. No one would talk to him and if he sat down to eat with players, they get up and move to another table.
According to the players this is completely false. Martin was in no way isolated from his teammates and in fact Incognito was one of the teammates he spent most of his time with.
What you are referring to is a prank where the OLine would invite someone to sit to eat with them and when someone did the pranksters would all get up and move away.
Martin actually participated with Incognito in playing that same prank on other players, including the team's QB, Ryan Tannehill.
Well....to be fair...the qb deserved it
What are we missing here? Something happened. ..what was it?
He sounds like a perfect candidate for a NE Patriots reclamation project...
Well, nobody knows the full story yet. But if I had to guess at least part of it was due to the fact that they just brought on a new player mid-season to take over for Martin at his old position, left tackle (typically considered the most important position on the offensive line).
This moved Martin over the right tackle.
This might have contributed to his breakdown in some way. Again, just speculating here.
When the prank was played on Martin he made a big scene and basically ran out on the team without saying anything to anyone. From his teammates' perspective this was absolutely bizarre because, as I pointed out, Martin has participated in playing this prank on other players before.
While Martin was away he stayed in contact with some of his teammates in a friendly manner, including Incognito.
Then all of the sudden on Sunday, after Martin had been away for almost a week, Martin's lawyer parents turned over a SEVEN MONTH OLD voice mail that certainly looks absolutely horrendous when taken out of context. But a voice mail that Martin had been sharing with teammates and joking about.
If I had to guess Martin's lawyer parents fear that Martin going AWOL without saying a word to anyone is going to jeopardize Martin's future in the NFL and they are basically throwing Incognito under the bus in order to protect Martin.
Was not calling out, was just observing how that particular player may have come through the football system with a different, softer experience and was not prepared for what could happen in the NFL with guys being hardasses and giving you shit all the time.
KT
Well, nobody knows the full story yet.
Knocking a traffic cop down is OK?Naw, yes, BB has taken players that were unhappy with their situation and not playing 100% for their current team and brought them to NE and they played their ass's off, (Moss, Dillion) for Bill but those players were never the type that pulled the type of shit incognito did, BB and Kraft did take a chance with one real "thug", (Hernandez) and got burned for trusting him, I don't see them making the same mistake twice..
All of you saying the voicemail needs to be put into context either don't have real jobs or ignored your harassment training. There is no context in which calling someone racial slurs, threatening to kill them, or saying you're going to cum down their throat is considered okay in the workplace.
I don't think the story is all as Martin's side would suggest, but Incognito's conduct was completely inappropriate, joking or not.
I can say in every job except KKK rally organizer, you would get fired for calling anyone you work with a n*gger if you were white.
All of you saying the voicemail needs to be put into context either don't have real jobs or ignored your harassment training. There is no context in which calling someone racial slurs, threatening to kill them, or saying you're going to cum down their throat is considered okay in the workplace.
I don't think the story is all as Martin's side would suggest, but Incognito's conduct was completely inappropriate, joking or not.
Agreed.
I played sports going up, served in the military, and have worked in intense/physically demanding jobs. There is often the, "Code" which is really only code for, "We behave badly and we expect everyone to shut up and cover for us. If not everyone will make your life a living hell."
I was in a number of situations in the military in particular where individuals did illegal things. The "expectation" was for everyone to follow the "unwritten Code" and overlook, even cover up, these activities. Of course all in the name of unity, "I got your back" BS. What this all really every was, and is, is an afront to the very principles members obligate themselves to uphold. If people had core values they would not expect or want you to lie to your commanding officers--and for the sake of the group would not put their brothers in that situation. You man up and take responsibility.
So this "Code" BS is really. Good leaders are able to foster core values by leading by example, outlining the clear expectations, and then enforcing these expectations fairly. Poor "leaders" are the ones who are unable, or unwilling, to hold themselves to such a standard that have to resort to unwritten "Codes" in violation of the mandates handed to them.
From the very beginning I have heard a ton of BS blaming Martin. Martin should have never been put into this situation.
The Coaches should have never invoked another player to handle the situation off the books. From the early reports this action was taken because optional workouts were not attended. Sorry NFL Team, your billionares got with the NFLPA millionares and hashed out the deal. Teams with good leadership and culture tend to get a strong turn out for these events; poorly lead teams don't. Undermining the legally agreed conditions and process is a blatant violation of the CBA and in itself an act of bullying an employee into compliance with a non-compulsary activity.
I also question the eagerness some are jumping on some of the more recent leaks. We don't have all the details.
Martin spending a lot of time with Incognito. OL sticks together. They go everywhere together. Seattle's local talk shows have had a lot of OL on who attest it has been the same thing on every team: the OL stick together on the road and do everything together. Furthermore if Incognito was tasked with "nurturing" Martin he very well may have been a brooding hen.
Sharing the audio and laughing about it. Reports are already indicating the MIA players don't have issues with a white guy using racial slurs at a black guy. The Coaches appear to have instructed another player to "toughen up" another player through unauthorized channels/methods. That says a lot of the culture. Martin doesn't appear to have had many friends and bringing the recording in could very well been seeing how his own teammates viewed it. They all laughed and thought it was great. I believe most of us have been in a position where we laughed off a hurtful or embarassing incident when a large group obviously didn't care how it affected us.
Facts are facts: when that audio was played, if MIA had a good culture with good guys in that locker room, someone who have said, "Hey, dudes, this is way over the line. I 'know' Richie was trying to be funny, but we are brothers, teammates, and this is not only unprofessional but not what we as a team want to be known for." Instead that locker room is full of 1st graders in men's bodies.
Everyone who is saying Martin should have punched Incognito: you are an idiot. Ever hear of Aaron Hernandez? You have no clue what is real, and not, from Incognito. He obvious has temper issues and a pop to the mouth may have escallated it to very, very bad places. People don't look back on Bill Romanoski breaking some guys eye as a "good" thing.
And there is reality: MIA wasn't happy with his performance as a player. Starting a physical altercation could have led to a suspension and getting labelled as a trouble maker.
If the report that the GM Ireland wanted Martin to punch Incognito--that is all the "character" testimony you need for the work environment Martin was in. The GM, Coaches, and Player(s) were all onboard to avert proper processes. Who did Martin have to turn to?
<Crickets>
The bottom line is the audio is unprofessional and in any work environment grounds for termination--regardless if it is a joke. A high profile "company" like the NFL with employees charged with all sorts of violent crimes absolutely should have a Zero Tolerance policy. You say, "It is part of sports" and I say, "Threats of violence & rape and bigotry are not part of socienty or any sport." It really is all hush hush for, "Code to allow bad people to act badly."
The audio appears confirmed; if Martin under "hazing" felt pressured to give money for trips for his teammates it speaks very clearly about the culture in that MIA lockerroom. And probably why the other players have no problem with Incognito.
Btw, this does not happen in every NFL lockerroom. Mike Holmgren always had a no-hazing policy and he absolutely punished players for violating it. His reasoning was players were professionals and he wanted young players to contribute and hazing serves no end to that purpose. They have enough to worry about.
<snipped out great post>
Ex-player defending Incognito confirms his behavior was common in the MIA locker room and the Coaches knew all about it.
I agree and would like to add that while in the military this kind of stuff did happen AND we all knew it was wrong. The "code" was even more of a bad joke, because it meant when you saw someone else doing wrong, you kept quiet; but, as soon as it became a situation where they would get in trouble because of you, you were thrown under the bus.
I get that Incognito may have just been joking around, because I've been there. I don't think any group of men ever has not come to behavior like this. However, groups of men in what is supposed to be a professional environment know better.
The victim blaming is pretty silly. AND people are afraid to call it that.
The motivation factor of passionate, sometimes profanity filled, speeches sports players connect with are sometimes. But, there is a huge difference between Alec Baldwin's Glengarry Glen Ross speech and Incognito's voice message.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id...nathan-martin-miami-dolphins-bullying-scandal
Excellent piece about the situation. It ties this into the broader issues that the NFL is dealing with (poorly). I'm saddened by the responses in the media that are nothing more than the traditional victim shaming approach to an issue.