Bump Stock Ban is in Effect

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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,650
5,224
136
I am a gun owner, I have a concealed carry permit, and I carry much of the time. I own an AR-15, and I enjoy shooting it at the range.

Removing the ban on bump stocks is bullshit. I could modify my AR-15 to be fully automatic (the know how is available online), but that would be breaking the law. The bump stock is just a legal workaround to converting a semi-auto to full auto.

I agree with you in principal, but the ruling was based on the language of the statues in place.

It is a technological adaptation to increase due rate, but bumpstocks do not meet the legal definition of machineguns since it's still 1 trigger action/ 1 round fired.

I would think binary triggers also fall into this category.

I do think it's important for the govt to follow the laws as written, so the legal outcome of this may be to revise the statues appropriately.
 

balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
6,386
2,818
136
I find this case for something like night vision, which is never? misused in the USA, pretty perplexing. Hell, even here in Canada I’ve never seen anyone want night vision banned. It has legitimate uses and very, very niche cases for misuse.

Body armor is just safety equipment. Protecting yourself from criminals or other dangers shouldn’t be illegal.

Even the heavy caliber rifles, almost never misused.

Assuming you’re American it seems bizarre to expend any effort on banning things that are almost never misused when there are so many actual problems occurring. Even this concentration on full automatics is weird when the number of crimes committed with legal ones may as well be zero.
If the normal Joe has access to the tools and accessories of war that means our law enforcement also needs these tools. It creates an arms race which creates a law enforcement that looks like our military. These tools along with semi-automatic weapons are enabling the very problem the 2nd amendment was created to solve to begin with. Heck, even my small towns and at least one around me now have a MRAP.


What about FLIR? Can I keep my infrared camera or do I have to give that up too?

At any rate if we aren’t banning bump stocks I suggest LGBTQ folks, Jews, atheists, women, African Americans, Latinos and other minorities consider buying them. Good for… “self defense” and / or it will force the ban again.
For the average person flir should be banned for weapon mounting and for locating people (monoculars, binoculars and googles). Flir for phones to find leaks would be ok I would think. Flir should only be available to certain parties (HVAC, rescue, SWAT, etc.). I would be ok with rentals to find leaks. I'm totally for tools that help the environment, climate and save energy and money.

FWIW I encourage any democrat to get a weapon or two and get very familiar with them. I did so myself in 2020 for obvious reasons. Ukrainians may not be the only people fighting to stay a democracy if something doesn't give here in the US.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,623
49,185
136
And today the Supreme Court voted 6-3 to make bump stocks legal again. One step forward, two steps back.

And from justices who claim in other contexts that we should use the 'ordinary meaning' of words when interpreting laws.

Apparently when Congress passed that law they weren't trying to ban guns that fired rapidly, only guns that fired rapidly by holding the trigger down instead of ones that achieve a similar rate of fire by having the trigger actuated very quickly.

It's what the founders would have wanted.
 
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eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,273
4,566
136
Hehe

“When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck,” Sotomayor wrote in her dissent.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,766
8,314
136
I haven't read the ruling, but apparently it leans heavily on "it still requires forward pressure on the stock as an overt action" to maintain the rate of fire.

How is that different than "it still requires rearward pressure on the trigger" in a full auto weapon?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,623
49,185
136
I haven't read the ruling, but apparently it leans heavily on "it still requires forward pressure on the stock as an overt action" to maintain the rate of fire.

How is that different than "it still requires rearward pressure on the trigger" in a full auto weapon?
It's a semantics game to get around the plainly obvious intent of the law. Conservative judges play this sort of game all the time. When it comes to laws/regulations they don't like all of a sudden you need hyper-precise language covering every possible contingency. When it comes to laws/regulations they do like 'ordinary meaning' suffices.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,639
34,461
136
I haven't read the ruling, but apparently it leans heavily on "it still requires forward pressure on the stock as an overt action" to maintain the rate of fire.

How is that different than "it still requires rearward pressure on the trigger" in a full auto weapon?

Haven't heard an idea this stupid since flash hiders were considered "evil" components. Now everybody just buys the largest most deafening muzzle brakes they can find.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,039
7,461
136
Welp my virtually non-existent desire to go to crowded outdoor venues is now in negative territory.

Wonder how long before we get a Las Vegas copycat?
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,645
10,503
136
It's a semantics game to get around the plainly obvious intent of the law. Conservative judges play this sort of game all the time. When it comes to laws/regulations they don't like all of a sudden you need hyper-precise language covering every possible contingency. When it comes to laws/regulations they do like 'ordinary meaning' suffices.
I like Sotomayor's dissent. Plain and straightforward.

 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,534
12,656
146
I haven't read the ruling, but apparently it leans heavily on "it still requires forward pressure on the stock as an overt action" to maintain the rate of fire.

How is that different than "it still requires rearward pressure on the trigger" in a full auto weapon?
Yes. Based on their argument the only thing that's a full auto weapon is one where you press a button and it fires until empty.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,623
49,185
136
I like Alito’s concurrence where he says ‘I would love for bump stocks to be banned but we are bound to follow the wording of the law’ as if he didn’t recently vote to invalidate student loan forgiveness despite the absolutely plain wording of the law.
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,771
2,319
136
Welp my virtually non-existent desire to go to crowded outdoor venues is now in negative territory.

Wonder how long before we get a Las Vegas copycat?

Hell, or go anywhere. The more wanna-be Rambos out there looking for bad guys (like the latest asshat who shot that kid the store, and before that had followed some person on a bike because he thought a bicycle part was a gun) the less I want to be out in public. Ironically, all the "it's not safe out there, I need a gun!" assholes who are the ones that are making feel quite unsafe. And with stand your ground type laws, all you have to do is rile up the wrong dude and suddenly he feels "threatened" and kills your ass....and he might skate.

This country might as well just go all the way and be done with it. Assault rifles for all, provided at age 8 by your local Christian school. What a grand experiment, give a bunch of apes lethal weaponry and then wonder why we have so many deaths. Solution--more lethal weaponry!

Seriously thinking to retire overseas. This ain't the only reason, maybe not even the main one, but it is a reason. The danger factor from gun owners hasn't quite hit the threshold, but it's close. Hoping to get my kids to go as well, but the twerps don't seem interested, they are adults so their call.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,725
2,497
126
The so-called conservative majority of the Supreme Court continues to operate as an unelected life time super legislature, operating way way beyond their Constitutional authority. Thomas disagrees with the law, it is voided. They apparently aren't even making the pretense of a constitutional ruling anymore.

And they haven't even got to the most significant cases pending, especially those designed to protect Trump.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,636
4,108
136
I assume assault weapons are banned due to their rate of fire and ease of said rate of fire. I don't see how a bump stock is any different. Achieves the same result in a slightly different way.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,773
10,272
136
I assume assault weapons are banned due to their rate of fire and ease of said rate of fire. I don't see how a bump stock is any different. Achieves the same result in a slightly different way.
In the legislative world, "assault weapon" specifically is a made-up term, but yes newly manufactured machine guns are banned for civilian sale and existing ones are heavily, heavily regulated (a legal, fully automatic firearm will cost like $20k or more).

I do agree, for practical purposes a bump stock does turn a semi-auto into a machine gun. So while the mechanism that normally performs this function is not present, this is just an alternative hardware workaround.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,899
38,238
136
The SCROTUS is insufferably partisan and hypocritical, as usual. Filibuster removal and SCOTUS repair can't happen fast enough. The Calvinball has to stop.
 
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