Bump Stock Ban is in Effect

[[DHT]Osiris]

I have mixed feelings. I have never had the slightest inclination to shoot up a crowd, or a school, or anywhere else, but if I really wanted to do the most damage, I would not want an automatic because that just empties the magazine and wastes most of the bullets which are not infinite like in some video game, and aiming would be poor as well. You don't have a "great deal of control" of a rifle bouncing back and forth, beyond use for mass shootings where you don't care that much who you hit, and most bullets don't hit anyone, is more about terrorism.

I'm not arguing that bump stocks wouldn't result in more deaths in certain dense crowd situations, but rather that there's a lot of other situations where some lunatic wasting their ammo seems like not such a bad thing. I've never used a bump stock on an AR15, but was in the military and familiar with an M16 and am pro gun ownership, but more restrictive than it is currently.

Rather than bump stock bans, I'd rather there were a FAR more restrictive standard to own assault weapons and AR15 (among others) be classified as one nationally, because that's what it is misused for. Yes I am stating the obvious, but the point is, limiting the accessibility of guns, present and future models, worthwhile to put a bump stock on to begin with, not just automatics. "Assault Weapon" needs redefined.

The whole auto/bump stock thing is relevant for the kind of person that just wants to empty his load into a crowd of kids or some shit. He doesn't care about accuracy, just putting lead downrange into unarmored civilians fleeing. A reminder that the ban came into effect after a shooter in an elevated position rained down on a concert, and even then he didn't get off more than a few full clips iirc. He had a lot more planned, probably didn't realize how fast people move when they need to.

The whole assault weapon thing is a red herring and always will be. Any attempts to stratify weapons into categories beyond the firing mechanism just devolves into arguing what words mean while mfgs create weapons that skirt the rules.

 

[Zorba]

If you could pass a law with similar language as we use in Canada to prohibit full automatic and select fire you wouldn't have to worry about what the work around is. Stuff like bump stocks, gatling cranks, and forced reset triggers are all captured and prohibited:

automatic firearm means a firearm that is capable of, or assembled or designed and manufactured with the capability of, discharging projectiles in rapid succession during one pressure of the trigger;

Any electrical or mechanical device that is designed or adapted to operate the trigger mechanism of a semi-automatic firearm for the purpose of causing the firearm to discharge cartridges in rapid succession.

It should really be set as any weapon capable of firing over X rate. Or better yet just ban semiautomatic guns.

 

[Dave_5k]

It should really be set as any weapon capable of firing over X rate. Or better yet just ban semiautomatic guns.

I'm still a fan of the true originalist viewpoint ~ that the 2nd amendment only applies to muzzle-loaded smoothbore single-shot flintlocks, as was commonly available in 1791.

All other more advanced weapons should be heavily regulated and restricted, particularly any weapon capable of using a magazine or holding more than 1 round of ammunition.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I'm still a fan of the true originalist viewpoint ~ that the 2nd amendment only applies to muzzle-loaded smoothbore single-shot flintlocks, as was commonly available in 1791.

All other more advanced weapons should be heavily regulated and restricted, particularly any weapon capable of using a magazine or holding more than 1 round of ammunition.

There was technically a repeating rifle available at that time. It was air powered, though that was due to the lack of machined ammunition, more so than an inability to develop a better rifle. It was still capable of killing if you decided to do so. Good for a shot every 2s or so, so a little slower than a lever action rifle would be today, though with far more shots.

It should really be set as any weapon capable of firing over X rate. Or better yet just ban semiautomatic guns.

Firing over x rate is hard, because you can fire most non-muzzle loaders quite quickly. Also, many very large caliber automatic weapons don't fire super fast. The Chauchat fired about 4 rounds a second which isn't slow, but most adept shooters can probably do faster than that with many weapons.

So what do you do? Just ban all semi-automatic action and hope nobody comes up with an automatic lever or revolver reloader?

https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/q8nnq4/how_about_a_full_auto_winfield_73_gas_operated

Just ban everything that isn't a single shot, and wait for someone to find a way to 'autoload' a single shot action?

The Alofs Reloading Magazine for Shotguns - Small Arms Review

Some people may find it a nuisance to reload a single-shot shotgun after every shot. This was also the case for Herman Alofs, who in the early 1920s thought about how to make a repeating shotgun out of it.

smallarmsreview.com

Ban all weapons with >1r/s, and try to add a governor to newly mfg'd weapons or something?

 

[mindless1]

Funny…I’ve managed to control an M-16 on full auto fairly nicely.

That wasn't a bump stock. Matters quite a bit where you hit someone, if you hit them at all while wasting bullets. The point was the bump stock can make someone less effective in many scenarios so it's too little to focus on.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

On the surface I don’t think it’s a horrible ruling. The court is saying Congress needs to act to modify or enable a new law which isn’t a bad thing, problem is far too many don’t want to do anything which once again is why the filibuster needs to be removed and crap like this needs to have a vote on record. Sadly I do expect another mass shooting involving bump stocks to happen again before there is any action.

 

[Fenixgoon]

There was technically a repeating rifle available at that time. It was air powered, though that was due to the lack of machined ammunition, more so than an inability to develop a better rifle. It was still capable of killing if you decided to do so. Good for a shot every 2s or so, so a little slower than a lever action rifle would be today, though with far more shots.

Firing over x rate is hard, because you can fire most non-muzzle loaders quite quickly. Also, many very large caliber automatic weapons don't fire super fast. The Chauchat fired about 4 rounds a second which isn't slow, but most adept shooters can probably do faster than that with many weapons.

So what do you do? Just ban all semi-automatic action and hope nobody comes up with an automatic lever or revolver reloader?

https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/q8nnq4/how_about_a_full_auto_winfield_73_gas_operated

Just ban everything that isn't a single shot, and wait for someone to find a way to 'autoload' a single shot action?

The Alofs Reloading Magazine for Shotguns - Small Arms Review

Some people may find it a nuisance to reload a single-shot shotgun after every shot. This was also the case for Herman Alofs, who in the early 1920s thought about how to make a repeating shotgun out of it.

smallarmsreview.com

Ban all weapons with >1r/s, and try to add a governor to newly mfg'd weapons or something?

ban everything that is not a bolt-action rifle, pump-action shotgun, or muzzle-loading historic firearm from civilian ownership. easy peasy.

besides, most homicides are committed with handguns by a wide margin. so yeah, banning semi-auto rifles will cut down on mass-shooting type events, but handguns are where the numbers really are from a statistics standpoint.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

ban everything that is not a bolt-action rifle, pump-action shotgun, or muzzle-loading historic firearm from civilian ownership. easy peasy.

besides, most homicides are committed with handguns by a wide margin. so yeah, banning semi-auto rifles will cut down on mass-shooting type events, but handguns are where the numbers really are from a statistics standpoint.

So no lever actions? No revolvers?

 

[Fenixgoon]

So no lever actions? No revolvers?

nope.

 

[outriding]

And the next day I get a mass shooting a few miles from me

Police: At least 5 injured in shooting at Rochester Hills splash pad; suspect at-large

At least five people were injured in a shooting at a Rochester Hills splash pad on Saturday afternoon in what police called an active shooter situation.

www.clickondetroit.com

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

nope.

How is a lever action different from a bolt action to you?

Also, what about single-action revolvers?

 

[Zorba]

See the 'body armor for everybody' statement. Not just cops and criminals, everybody.

Yeah, because we should all want to live in society where it's required to wear body armor everywhere you go. Outside of police, security, and a few very high profile people there is no reason people should be allowed to buy body armor.

There was technically a repeating rifle available at that time. It was air powered, though that was due to the lack of machined ammunition, more so than an inability to develop a better rifle. It was still capable of killing if you decided to do so. Good for a shot every 2s or so, so a little slower than a lever action rifle would be today, though with far more shots.

Firing over x rate is hard, because you can fire most non-muzzle loaders quite quickly. Also, many very large caliber automatic weapons don't fire super fast. The Chauchat fired about 4 rounds a second which isn't slow, but most adept shooters can probably do faster than that with many weapons.

So what do you do? Just ban all semi-automatic action and hope nobody comes up with an automatic lever or revolver reloader?

https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/q8nnq4/how_about_a_full_auto_winfield_73_gas_operated

Just ban everything that isn't a single shot, and wait for someone to find a way to 'autoload' a single shot action?

The Alofs Reloading Magazine for Shotguns - Small Arms Review

Some people may find it a nuisance to reload a single-shot shotgun after every shot. This was also the case for Herman Alofs, who in the early 1920s thought about how to make a repeating shotgun out of it.

smallarmsreview.com

Ban all weapons with >1r/s, and try to add a governor to newly mfg'd weapons or something?

You make it illegal to sell or possess any of those things. I'm sure most decent machinists could build a full auto gun today, that's no reason to unban them.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yeah, because we should all want to live in society where it's required to wear body armor everywhere you go. Outside of police, security, and a few very high profile people there is no reason people should be allowed to buy body armor.

Is the availability of body armor going to guarantee the requirement of them? Are armed gangs going to take over the streets if civilians have access to protection?

Yeah, because we should all want to live in society where it's required to wear body armor everywhere you go. Outside of police, security, and a few very high profile people there is no reason people should be allowed to buy body armor.

You make it illegal to sell or possess any of those things. I'm sure most decent machinists could build a full auto gun today, that's no reason to unban them.

So you now have you develop laws for dozens of 'bump stock' like things? How long will that take? How realistic is that to be possible?

 

[ch33zw1z]

ban everything that is not a bolt-action rifle, pump-action shotgun, or muzzle-loading historic firearm from civilian ownership. easy peasy.

besides, most homicides are committed with handguns by a wide margin. so yeah, banning semi-auto rifles will cut down on mass-shooting type events, but handguns are where the numbers really are from a statistics standpoint.

And most gun deaths are due to suicides, yet we have no plan to approach this topic from a policy standpoint. It’s not just that homicides are a non issue for Americans, it’s that gun violence and deaths are what seem to be a a celebration of 2A rights for an uncomfortable amount of Americans.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I’m not surprised the bump stock ban was overturned by this scotus, no brainer. I wonder how man magatarians remember who implemented it.

 

[Fenixgoon]

How is a lever action different from a bolt action to you?

Also, what about single-action revolvers?

Is it practically different? Perhaps not. Lever action and break-barrels can get added to the list. I'm trying to keep it simple. Revolvers would still be a no-go as handguns.

Point being, rather than come up with some convoluted technical definition of what is acceptable - which is how things like bump stocks or that goofy looking AR-15 that skirted New York's assault weapons ban - just make something very simple.

 

[Fenixgoon]

And most gun deaths are due to suicides, yet we have no plan to approach this topic from a policy standpoint. It’s not just that homicides are a non issue for Americans, it’s that gun violence and deaths are what seem to be a a celebration of 2A rights for an uncomfortable amount of Americans.

The cost of freedumb

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Is it practically different? Perhaps not. Lever action and break-barrels can get added to the list. I'm trying to keep it simple. Revolvers would still be a no-go as handguns.

Point being, rather than come up with some convoluted technical definition of what is acceptable - which is how things like bump stocks or that goofy looking AR-15 that skirted New York's assault weapons ban - just make something very simple.

But you aren't making it simple. Simple is saying no full auto action. That eliminates large swathes of large caliber, anti material weapons. When you try to isolate the action types beyond full auto, you get into this weird world of trying to define what words mean, and trying to chase around modifications that turn your not-semi-auto into semi auto again. It's basically trying to wrap jello in rubber bands.

 

[Fenixgoon]

But you aren't making it simple. Simple is saying no full auto action. That eliminates large swathes of large caliber, anti material weapons. When you try to isolate the action types beyond full auto, you get into this weird world of trying to define what words mean, and trying to chase around modifications that turn your not-semi-auto into semi auto again. It's basically trying to wrap jello in rubber bands.

large caliber, anti-materiel weapons aren't the problem we're facing though.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

large caliber, anti-materiel weapons aren't the problem we're facing though.

Right, because they're outlawed/heavily regulated. That's the delineation we collectively agreed on. It's also a very easy delineation to make, very simple. There's nuance within the other actions that make it more definitely to craft law around, and more difficult to restrain legally.

 

[pcgeek11]

This goes way beyond just voting for president.

Please tell us for which party you voted for in any other elections - for both your senator, congressional rep, and local races. It's as simple as that because one party is for gun nuts and one isn't.

No.

I'll consider it when you post a detailed list of every candidate you have ever voted for local and federal since you became of age to vote.

 

[pcgeek11]

Funny…I’ve managed to control an M-16 on full auto fairly nicely. Of course it took lots of practice, but I’ve shot thousands upon thousands of rounds thru the m16 during my years in the military.

Granted, it does like to walk upward when emptying the magazine on auto, but practice makes it easy to anticipate and control, esp at night with tracer rounds. Loved shooting tracers. One of the few fun things I as a medic got to do in the combat engineer battalion I was attached to.

Other fun stuff was playing with det cord, Bangalore torpedos, c4, and generally blowing crap up. Once got over the fear of blasting caps, the rest was great. Who doesn’t like blowing up a timber bridge or a derelict jeep?

Try and control a Thompson on full automatic. They are fun to shoot, but waste an extreme amount of ammunition.

We used to carry them on the boats.

 

[sdifox]

Try and control a Thompson. They are fun to shoot, but waste an extreme amount of ammunition.

We used to carry them on the boats.

Apparently it is still in service. Colour me surprised. Century old design.

Thompson submachine gun - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Apparently it is still in service. Colour me surprised. Century old design.

Thompson submachine gun - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

So's the 1911

 

[Moonbeam]

See the 'body armor for everybody' statement. Not just cops and criminals, everybody.

Children at the beach would be in danger of drowning. Your idea is not really feasible.

Preventing children from growing up in abusive households would do more to end crime that guns or armor ever will.